genuine 240p looked prettier to me than high resolutions with filters, but it is true that 2560x240p looked the same as 256x240 and 320x240.That sounds pretty amazing. Didn't knew that there exist method to reprogram video mode in real time by software.
Too bad I don't have any compatible GPU on hand to play with.
240p 120Hz with BFI looks very similar to standard VGA 480p60 with "scanlines" effect. There are differences but not really that big.
Each line actually draws in the same time - horizontal frequency is the same.
Brightness is the same, just in one case you drop 50% of the pixels by not drawing whole frames and in other case you don't draw every second line.
And VGA monitors usually don't have luminance to spare for such things so you do get rather dark picture. Unless its one of these super hiper bright models.
Sharpness itself... it is like kinda much more PVM than PVM ever is.
That said 240p on 21 inch PVMs is very comparable to 480p with scanlines (or like I said 240p120 + BFI) on smaller VGA monitor and it already is a bit too clinical. I mean 14 or at most 15 inch.
Just if you take 21 inch VGA CRT which is showing nice scanlines at even 768 lines and draw much much less lines you get image which does looks ridiculous.
That said I wouldn't say VGA CRTs are hopeless.
In fact you can always set very high vertical resolution and use CRT shader.
I did comparisons between just MISTer FPGA scaler on 17 inch VGA CRT vs 17 inch JVC professional monitor with very similar CRT tube between them and was able to get result which looked almost identical.
Also unlike dropping whole lines or whole frames CRT shaders typically don't loose as much brightness and can reproduce very specific coloristic effects older games often depended on for proper looks.
Not sure if emudriver works with non-240p modes though.
I guess I'll need to get some Radeon for testing.
Otherwise I yesterday got OSSC Pro and will be testing its 240p/480i capabilities on PS5 Pro
BTW. You are totally right with the "get TV" angle. You can grab especially big CRT TVs for the price of driving in to someone house and just taking it from their hands and big TVs have relatively much sharper picture and dare I say it: very optimal. Kinda like I have 15 inch PVM and it has 'optimal' sharpness. Big Trinitron TV is just scaling such medium size PVM up. And another advantage of big TV is price. PVM and other professional monitors are crazy expensive.
Of course VGA monitors aren't super expensive yet but compared to big TVs...
You don't need or even want video modes like 256x240.
There wouldn't be any difference compared to e.g. 2048x240 and you don't really know if this game for a system which seemingly only has 256 pixels wide like SNES isn't really using some tricks and only looks good with 512 pixels wide. Not to mention some systems have different resolutions like Genesis/Megadrive has games with 256 and 320 pixels wide.
Of course probably want emudriver anyways if like EI says it was specifically made to resolve all issues with video mode switching.
Alternatively like I say you should rather use very high resolution (integer multiple of system's vertical resolution) and use CRT shader. Much better effect than trying to have real 240 lines which in an ideal form so with BFI doesn't look any different than most basic 480p with scanlines.
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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.
- Thread starter mathesar
- Start date
XoR_
[H]ard|Gawd
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It depends on the filters and even more on what you yourself like.
Many people rave about something like bigger 21 inch PVMs as reference to how 240p should look like but to me it looks about the same as scaled up small 15-15 inch VGA CRT and already not ideal.
I like how smaller 14-17 inch professional monitors look like and this is what CRT shaders/filters can give once paired with very high resolution.
Also VGA has no genuine 240p because when you read 240p it is implied it is 15KHz signal so also 60Hz. If you modded VGA monitor to support 15KHz signals then you would get brighter picture with thicker scanlines thus less gaps.
Of course if you run 240p on VGA CRT at 31KHz but don't add BFI you don't loose any brightness by dropping any form of pixels and image kinda looks nicer than just line doubling. Then however you do get worse motion clarity because then you have double ghosting - a kind of sample&hold motion blur. In fact sample&hold motion blur is kinda like CRT with frame rate going in to infinity. And many sample&hold displays didn't even have that but rather they did flicker but at very high frequency. Often 175Hz.
----------------------------------
Anyways, just got OSSC Pro and testing it.
It can produce 240p/480i for 14KHz TVs and all that.
However the other feature which I hope will work without much issues but which I never heard anyone mention is: fixing 1080p on VGA CRTs.
I can use 1080p on my consoles on FW900 just fine but there are geometry issues near the edges because blanking periods are too short because 1080p signal was never intended to be consumed by CRTs or at least in the raw form. Upscaler can help with that by rescaling signal to be CRT compatible giving fixed geometry.
What could perhaps also be possible would be 1440p but here it would be much harder starting from needing really high bandwidth input which upscalers currently don't really have and HDMI to VGA adapter. All high bandwidth adapters I have heard about are DP to VGA. Of course if upscaler could capture 1440p from PS5 I could then use HDMI to DP for 4K resolutions and then my Delock to do actual D/A conversion.
For now however not even normal resolutions like 720p or 1080p work on PS5. Reported bug. Looks to be a HDMI handshake issue. Also HDFury VRRoom didn't help with different issue. Kinda disappointing but I was able to test downscaling and BFI adding using HDMI to VGA adapter.
Anyways, I got add-on with Composite and S-Video so now I can get all sorts of high quality 15KHz signals to my VGA monitors
Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah a lot of cool stuff happening in the upscaler world, with benefits for people rocking PC CRT's
eh no, 240p just means 240 vertical pixels on progressive scan , it cant imply 60hz because pal and ntsc had different refresh rates, i would grant you that you definitely wouldnt think of 120hz but thats why retroarch has bfi.It depends on the filters and even more on what you yourself like.
Many people rave about something like bigger 21 inch PVMs as reference to how 240p should look like but to me it looks about the same as scaled up small 15-15 inch VGA CRT and already not ideal.
I like how smaller 14-17 inch professional monitors look like and this is what CRT shaders/filters can give once paired with very high resolution.
Also VGA has no genuine 240p because when you read 240p it is implied it is 15KHz signal so also 60Hz. If you modded VGA monitor to support 15KHz signals then you would get brighter picture with thicker scanlines thus less gaps.
Of course if you run 240p on VGA CRT at 31KHz but don't add BFI you don't loose any brightness by dropping any form of pixels and image kinda looks nicer than just line doubling. Then however you do get worse motion clarity because then you have double ghosting - a kind of sample&hold motion blur. In fact sample&hold motion blur is kinda like CRT with frame rate going in to infinity. And many sample&hold displays didn't even have that but rather they did flicker but at very high frequency. Often 175Hz.
----------------------------------
Anyways, just got OSSC Pro and testing it.
It can produce 240p/480i for 14KHz TVs and all that.
However the other feature which I hope will work without much issues but which I never heard anyone mention is: fixing 1080p on VGA CRTs.
I can use 1080p on my consoles on FW900 just fine but there are geometry issues near the edges because blanking periods are too short because 1080p signal was never intended to be consumed by CRTs or at least in the raw form. Upscaler can help with that by rescaling signal to be CRT compatible giving fixed geometry.
What could perhaps also be possible would be 1440p but here it would be much harder starting from needing really high bandwidth input which upscalers currently don't really have and HDMI to VGA adapter. All high bandwidth adapters I have heard about are DP to VGA. Of course if upscaler could capture 1440p from PS5 I could then use HDMI to DP for 4K resolutions and then my Delock to do actual D/A conversion.
For now however not even normal resolutions like 720p or 1080p work on PS5. Reported bug. Looks to be a HDMI handshake issue. Also HDFury VRRoom didn't help with different issue. Kinda disappointing but I was able to test downscaling and BFI adding using HDMI to VGA adapter.
Anyways, I got add-on with Composite and S-Video so now I can get all sorts of high quality 15KHz signals to my VGA monitors
In any case, you are objectively correct in that pc crt's are too sharp, the real ideal pic is just composite or RF , i dont think that 3rd through 5th gen games should be sharp, a BVM/PVM is way too sharp, but despite all the hard work and great progress that's been made in software filters and even hardware scalers like the retrothink , its still not as convincing as genuine 240p whether its 240p 50hz, 60hz or 120hz with bfi , something feels off in 2D games and these filters make 3D games look way too cartooney, an ideal monitor would be something that had a range from 15kHz up to 90 something kHz , these were called multi-sync monitors and they are even more rare than 16:9 crt monitors , but the few people that have them must be having the time of their lives.
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All ten of you.
. Nah it's good stuff though. I just wish we could make another scan-out display like a CRT. Sony made a laser projector that scanned out like a CRT. I'll bet it had great motion clarity and contrast.
XoR_
[H]ard|Gawd
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Like I said I was able to approximate how JVC TM-1750C looks on some cheap 17 inch VGA CRT using MISTer FPGA scaler filter. Not sure RetroArch shaders because I prefer FPGA or real hardware but I guess that should also be doable - though if good shader exists I have no idea.
-----------------------------
BTW. I didn't disable HDCP on my PS5 and otherwise OSSC Pro can take HDMI directly from PS5. Much easier to setup than using VGA cable and much better image quality.
Unfortunately OSSC Pro doesn't have csync on HDMI output and I would need sync combining circuit to connect output from HDMI to VGA converter to my PVM to test 240p/480i on real CRT. Something I guess I will need to fix myself. Otherwise my LG 48GQ900 WOLED supports all 15KHz resolutions and I confirmed that OSSC Pro displays all 1920 pixels in the horizontal direction - which is actually amazing and why I wanted such scaler.
And this is technically possible even today!
Its just display manufacturers don't really care because they are soulless corporations whose engineers better also be soulless and not passionate or they will only suffer seeing how what could be perfection is wasted on stupid decissions.
Like there exist bugs in many displays which are never fixed correctly, nothing is done, and if something is then next time around you see the same issues.
LG G5 - how is it possible it has so much banding?
Didn't anyone at LG look at the TV before release? Is it really that hard to make display without banding?
I have LG 48GQ900 - I figured out LG never looks at what they sell. Most likely firmware is done in India by people who never saw the TV. Also automated testing doesn't exist.
So yeah, even though it can be done the issue here is that you can have OLED with sample&hold so we won't be having proper strobing anytime soon
-----------------------------
BTW. I didn't disable HDCP on my PS5 and otherwise OSSC Pro can take HDMI directly from PS5. Much easier to setup than using VGA cable and much better image quality.
Unfortunately OSSC Pro doesn't have csync on HDMI output and I would need sync combining circuit to connect output from HDMI to VGA converter to my PVM to test 240p/480i on real CRT. Something I guess I will need to fix myself. Otherwise my LG 48GQ900 WOLED supports all 15KHz resolutions and I confirmed that OSSC Pro displays all 1920 pixels in the horizontal direction - which is actually amazing and why I wanted such scaler.
OLEDs can be made like that and given how they are momentary panel power limited more than pixel luminance limited you could have very narrow strobe width which is super duper bright thus giving lagless bright image without noticeable sample&hold blur.All ten of you.
And this is technically possible even today!
Its just display manufacturers don't really care because they are soulless corporations whose engineers better also be soulless and not passionate or they will only suffer seeing how what could be perfection is wasted on stupid decissions.
Like there exist bugs in many displays which are never fixed correctly, nothing is done, and if something is then next time around you see the same issues.
LG G5 - how is it possible it has so much banding?
Didn't anyone at LG look at the TV before release? Is it really that hard to make display without banding?
I have LG 48GQ900 - I figured out LG never looks at what they sell. Most likely firmware is done in India by people who never saw the TV. Also automated testing doesn't exist.
So yeah, even though it can be done the issue here is that you can have OLED with sample&hold so we won't be having proper strobing anytime soon
Some FW900 news for a change.
I finally had some time to try fixing my red cathode intermittent G1-k short issue, mainly with neck tapping/discharges. In the process, the tube developped ... a BLUE intermittent short.
As a side note, the CR7000 isn't very good at dealing with shorts. I shuts down the heater voltage before trying to burn it, meaning shorts appearing because of parts expanding with heat disappear before having a chance to burn them ... and reappear once the heater is on again. I had to use the CR7000 as heater voltage supply and a Müter BMR95 to burn the shorts/monitor the cathodes.
So, I apparently got rid of the shorts but the blue cathode's cutoff voltage decreased much lower than the two others (either because of a short burning discharge abuse or a loose element in the neck of the tube). The display can't be calibrated anymore. I have yet to find if this is a permanent state or if there is any hope of balancing/fixing that.
What has to learnt from this is that the short burning discharge has to be used with care and only when there is no other choice, it's not necessarily harmless. Putting a tube on its face may not be the best advice as well despite what can be read on the web. This may have moved some loose *derp* to places worse than before.
Good news is that I could also try using a 801GD as video generator with Windas, it's a dream. The generator is driven through a serial link by Windas, the software asks for the right test pattern with the right resolution on every step, and this is displayed on screen. Totally unnecessary so absolutely required.
I finally had some time to try fixing my red cathode intermittent G1-k short issue, mainly with neck tapping/discharges. In the process, the tube developped ... a BLUE intermittent short.
As a side note, the CR7000 isn't very good at dealing with shorts. I shuts down the heater voltage before trying to burn it, meaning shorts appearing because of parts expanding with heat disappear before having a chance to burn them ... and reappear once the heater is on again. I had to use the CR7000 as heater voltage supply and a Müter BMR95 to burn the shorts/monitor the cathodes.
So, I apparently got rid of the shorts but the blue cathode's cutoff voltage decreased much lower than the two others (either because of a short burning discharge abuse or a loose element in the neck of the tube). The display can't be calibrated anymore. I have yet to find if this is a permanent state or if there is any hope of balancing/fixing that.
What has to learnt from this is that the short burning discharge has to be used with care and only when there is no other choice, it's not necessarily harmless. Putting a tube on its face may not be the best advice as well despite what can be read on the web. This may have moved some loose *derp* to places worse than before.
Good news is that I could also try using a 801GD as video generator with Windas, it's a dream. The generator is driven through a serial link by Windas, the software asks for the right test pattern with the right resolution on every step, and this is displayed on screen. Totally unnecessary so absolutely required.
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YES! I loved my old 801GG. Any of the 801 series should work with it. It made the workflow so simple and so much less hassle. Glad you have one!Some FW900 news for a change.
I finally had some time to try fixing my red cathode intermittent G1-k short issue, mainly with neck tapping/discharges. In the process, the tube developped ... a BLUE intermittent short.
As a side note, the CR7000 isn't very good at dealing with shorts. I shuts down the heater voltage before trying to burn it, meaning shorts appearing because of parts expanding with heat disappear before having a chance to burn them ... and reappear once the heater is on again. I had to use the CR7000 as heater voltage supply and a Müter BMR95 to burn the shorts/monitor the cathodes.
So, I apparently got rid of the shorts but the blue cathode's cutoff voltage decreased much lower than the two others (either because of a short burning discharge abuse or a loose element in the neck of the tube). The display can't be calibrated anymore. I have yet to find if this is a permanent state or if there is any hope of balancing/fixing that.
What has to learnt from this is that the short burning discharge has to be used with care and only when there is no other choice, it's not necessarily harmless. Putting a tube on its face may not be the best advice as well despite what can be read on the web. This may have moved some loose *derp* to places worse than before.
Good news is that I could also try using a 801GD as video generator with Windas, it's a dream. The generator is driven through a serial link by Windas, the software asks for the right test pattern with the right resolution on every step, and this is displayed on screen. Totally unnecessary so absolutely required.
Thanks for sharing.
Another option is Special K. It's Latent Sync, right click the framerate limit.
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Just to reiterate that LG's CX and C1 have sub-refresh BFI. So I'm pretty sure that that limitation doesn't exist with those particular televisions. Just another reason their demise and LG's decision to drop 120hz BFI was a travesty.
I'm using a monitor. The FW900.
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No I know. I'm just saying basically - there is a lag-less solution to BFI and LG implemented it in their vaunted CX and C1 televisions. I wish they made the same technology available to their monitors but it is what it is.
EDIT - in other words. Displays on the marketplace aren't limited by their technical abilities per se. We just have what we have because most people don't care and monitor manufacturers are catering to the lowest common denominator. Every now and then there's a display that's unique and stands out, and shows a glimpse of what's possible. But we can't have it. Because fuck you, that's why.
I don't understand... is latent sync'ing or, scanline syncing related to BFI ?
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I think in LG's case for the CX and C1 it was a rolling scan that was implemented at the sub refresh level. That kind of thing takes additional electronics to pull off and it's cheaper to not have it. That's why you have a 120hz TV that can do a single frame 120hz BFI. Because it does it at the 240hz level. It was also a rolling scan, to reduce the amount of perceived flicker. Though at 60hz single strobe the CX was apparently pretty flickery.
We actually have monitors (240hz) that can actually pull this off. But to date, the only one that I know of that has this option is a Viewsonic XG OLED. But I've read so-so reviews on it and it appears that it's now discontinued.
I don't know much about this kind of stuff
Xar
Limp Gawd
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PG32UCDM, PG32UCDP, PG27UCDM have 120Hz BFI. PG27AQDP has both 120 & 240Hz BFI and newer than the Viewsonic XG OLED as well.
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I think Viewsonic XG OLED is the only one with 60-120hz BFI. It can go all the way down to 60hz single strobe... allegedly. Thanks for the list!
Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
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Do you remember where you read this by any chance?
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Oh goodness. No I don't.
I want to say I saw it on some product previews/reviews scattered on the net. I've always wanted to try it but it uses an older LG panel and I believe the color fringing would bother the shit out of me.An issue I remember from the Asus OLED monitor reviews is that they don't allow BFI in HDR mode. They should give the user a choice on that.
As for this C1, latest word seems to be about an effective 294 Hz equivalent motion clarity. Maybe a bit more. This from Ariel on YouTube. And when I went back and magnified those graphs from RTINGS it seemed to support that....
Some initially thought rolling scan was pulled from TVs so as to feature in their monitors exclusively, but even that was wishful thinking. I agree certainly that it's just really a shame that it's just gone now.
As for this C1, latest word seems to be about an effective 294 Hz equivalent motion clarity. Maybe a bit more. This from Ariel on YouTube. And when I went back and magnified those graphs from RTINGS it seemed to support that....
Some initially thought rolling scan was pulled from TVs so as to feature in their monitors exclusively, but even that was wishful thinking. I agree certainly that it's just really a shame that it's just gone now.
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BlurBurster stated something about these TV's having sub refresh BFI, which features more complicated electronics that were later removed from the C2 and onward. Damn shame. It was such a promising start.
Hello,
I have an issue with my FW900 N-Board.
I recently acquired a Broken FW900 which I’m in the process of repairing.
I’ve successfully repaired the G-board (Power) by replacing 2 Capacitors that were severely damaged.
After doing so, the Unit would power on but the power indicator/Led remains orange.
(Tube does not power on, no big boing sound)
Luckily I own a working FW900 and I started swapping boards between the 2 units to help pinpoint the issue.
After swapping trying 1 by 1, I learned the N-Board is at fault.
(Confirmed by swapping all boards back besides N).
With the good N-Board, the unit operates normally.
I’ve recapped the complete board —> NOK
Performed a CPU swap (IC001) from the working N-Board to the Defective one (I did this to rule out if the CPU was at fault as it is a custom non-shelf part)
CPU from Dead board is OK (Tested with working board using dead board CPU)
(Dead board with good board CPU still does not work) —> NOK
Tested the board for Shorts (nothing came up) —> NOK
Swapped IC004, IC005 and IC0010 (Taken from a F500R N-Board) —> NOK
I’ve tried reading with Windas, but does not work.
I can make a Dump but I’m afraid it’s a False Reading.
All HEX values are zero (Bad EEPROM or other issue?).
(Also getting a lot of Syntax Errors in Windas) —> NOK
Anybody have an idea where to look next?
Thank you
I have an issue with my FW900 N-Board.
I recently acquired a Broken FW900 which I’m in the process of repairing.
I’ve successfully repaired the G-board (Power) by replacing 2 Capacitors that were severely damaged.
After doing so, the Unit would power on but the power indicator/Led remains orange.
(Tube does not power on, no big boing sound)
Luckily I own a working FW900 and I started swapping boards between the 2 units to help pinpoint the issue.
After swapping trying 1 by 1, I learned the N-Board is at fault.
(Confirmed by swapping all boards back besides N).
With the good N-Board, the unit operates normally.
I’ve recapped the complete board —> NOK
Performed a CPU swap (IC001) from the working N-Board to the Defective one (I did this to rule out if the CPU was at fault as it is a custom non-shelf part)
CPU from Dead board is OK (Tested with working board using dead board CPU)
(Dead board with good board CPU still does not work) —> NOK
Tested the board for Shorts (nothing came up) —> NOK
Swapped IC004, IC005 and IC0010 (Taken from a F500R N-Board) —> NOK
I’ve tried reading with Windas, but does not work.
I can make a Dump but I’m afraid it’s a False Reading.
All HEX values are zero (Bad EEPROM or other issue?).
(Also getting a lot of Syntax Errors in Windas) —> NOK
Anybody have an idea where to look next?
Thank you
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Have you tried checking the flat cables, especially between the N board and D board ? One or more tracks could be broken if they were not handled with care.
Otherwise, if you can export the settings of the monitor on your computer with Windas and can only read 0s as values, the issue may come from the memory chip on the N board itself or something in its vicinity. If I remember correctly there's also a command in Windas to reset settings entirely, you may try that as a last resort attempt, in case the memory is corrupted but the chip itself works (but I wouldn't do that without trying anything to save the current settings, otherwise you're good to recalibrate EVERYTHING).
I'm a bit surprised by the capacitor issue, film capacitors are normaly very reliable and this doesn't really explain the burn stains. I'd check the others components in the vicinity if I were you.
Otherwise, if you can export the settings of the monitor on your computer with Windas and can only read 0s as values, the issue may come from the memory chip on the N board itself or something in its vicinity. If I remember correctly there's also a command in Windas to reset settings entirely, you may try that as a last resort attempt, in case the memory is corrupted but the chip itself works (but I wouldn't do that without trying anything to save the current settings, otherwise you're good to recalibrate EVERYTHING).
I'm a bit surprised by the capacitor issue, film capacitors are normaly very reliable and this doesn't really explain the burn stains. I'd check the others components in the vicinity if I were you.
The Flat Cables should be OK as when I plug in the Working N-Board the Monitor turns ON no Problem
(Using the Same Flat Cables
As a Precaution, I've just swapped out CON001, CON010 and CON011 from theF500R and I cleaned CN003 (Not Present on F500R N-Board) with a Small Drill-bit to remove any corrosion.
--> I now have a Monitor that Turns off when I connect my TTL to USB adapter (Monitor Status LED shuts off)
----> LED comes back on when I remove the Adapter 5V line --> This would indicate a Short on the 5V rail --> Need to check the Cables again
--> ** Oddly, WINDAS does work when the 5V rail is removed, allowing me to make a DUMP (Albeit with errors (See Attachments))
------> I did try to Upload a working Config file --> completed but with similar error as above and the Final step Procedure can not be completed.
(It's Frustrating that the Board is Tucked underneath. I constantly need to remove both the D -and G-board.)
tongshadow
Limp Gawd
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Are those 2 blue resistors on the top fine? They look pretty crispy.
Thats just the Ceramic Outershell thats brittled away.
I’ve measured their Values, they are correct.
But I did change them. So they are fine.
Double Checked the Cables and indeed one of them had a Damaged trace. I repaired the Trace but same issue.
I did notice that as soon as I apply the 5V line over the TTL port for Windas, the Monitor Front LED turns off.
From the Service Manual I gathered that the PIN is STBY+5V.
—> There might be A short on that rail
I don't know how you think to have repaired a trace because flat cables normally can't be repaired AFAIK. A damaged one has to be replaced.
As for that led issue, does it turn off or turn orange ? Having the led orange and the display shutting down is normal behavior when a TTL connexion is plugged and powered.
I repaired (for now, until my replacement cable comes in) under a microscope by exposing the trace underneath the plastic by carefully scrapping away until the copper was exposed. I then inserted a Copper trace intended for trace repair cut to size. After which I soldered the 2 snapped halves to the new copper in place and isolated with UV Curing mask as to avoid shorts and make the connection more secure. Continuity read ok afterward.
This will suffice for now.
The Monitor turns on to instant Orange. But once the TTL is connected, the LED turns off completely.
I know from my working one that the Monitor goes to Orange (Standby) when TTL is active during the Save/Load process in Windas. But that is not the Case now unfortunately.
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Oh, I see. You're kind of guy who uses a nuke to get rid of a mosquito, aren't you ?
As for the problem with your led, indeed there may be a short related to the standby 5V line but only triggered by plugging the TTL link. According to your board switching, we know the culprit may be on the N board. And it's not the CPU. There' are only 3 other components supplied by the standby 5V link on that board, 2 of these are ROM chips. And a link between Windas and the monitor necessarily means access to the monitor's ROM. Check them for a short, you have good candidates there.
Is there any other way?Oh, I see. You're kind of guy who uses a nuke to get rid of a mosquito, aren't you ?
I’m hoping its not the ROM,
Also,
Found a nice way to test outside of the Unit:
Pin6 TXD
Pin8 RXD
Pin10 5V
Pin13 GND
Update:
I just swapped all the EEPROM chips from A to B and from B to A
A=Working
B=Defective
--> A board with B-EEPROM no longer able to Dump EEPROM via Windas
--> B board with A-EEPROM now able to Dump EEPROM via Windas
----> Conclusion:
EEPROM is damaged
------> Next step:
Figure out which of the 3 is Defective
EEPROM:
1) Datasheet name: IC002
Part: MM1170BFB
2) Datasheet name: IC003
Part: M24C16-MN6T
3) Datasheet name: IC011
Part: ST24FC21M6TR
The MM1170BFB (IC002) has me Worried because this seems like a Custom SONY part.
I just swapped all the EEPROM chips from A to B and from B to A
A=Working
B=Defective
--> A board with B-EEPROM no longer able to Dump EEPROM via Windas
--> B board with A-EEPROM now able to Dump EEPROM via Windas
----> Conclusion:
EEPROM is damaged
------> Next step:
Figure out which of the 3 is Defective
EEPROM:
1) Datasheet name: IC002
Part: MM1170BFB
2) Datasheet name: IC003
Part: M24C16-MN6T
3) Datasheet name: IC011
Part: ST24FC21M6TR
The MM1170BFB (IC002) has me Worried because this seems like a Custom SONY part.
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There probably was no need for chip swapping to find out if there is a problem. Just check each chip with a multimeter in diode mode between the +5V supply and the other pins. If you find it conductive when it doesn't make any sense (usually both ways), you got your faulty chip.
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IC002 was the Culprit.
Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be an off the shelf part.
Luckily I had a GDM-F500R which I had completely disassembled because the housing was extremely brittle/falling apart.
It uses an earlier version of the N-board but with most major components the same.
I still have major convergence and sharpness issues (I believe in part caused by the Recap I did with parts that weren’t always 1on1 Voltage wise) —> full recalibration??
But for now I’m happy it’s working again.
I’ll keep you guys posted asap!
IC002 was the Culprit.
Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to be an off the shelf part.
Luckily I had a GDM-F500R which I had completely disassembled because the housing was extremely brittle/falling apart.
It uses an earlier version of the N-board but with most major components the same.
I still have major convergence and sharpness issues (I believe in part caused by the Recap I did with parts that weren’t always 1on1 Voltage wise) —> full recalibration??
But for now I’m happy it’s working again.
I’ll keep you guys posted asap!
The maximum voltage of a capacitor won't change anything regarding the board operation. A different ESR might cause slight changes in voltage though. I did a full recap on a G1 and a G1W chassis, I don't remember this to systematically cause major convergence issues (and I only used top quality low ESR ones).
The monitor works again but given the burnt components issue with unknown causes on the G board, I strongly advise to doublecheck all voltage lines are withing specifications, you're never too cautious with weird failures like these.
Also, don't hesitate to replace the capacitors after each LDO regulator, most of them are likely to be worn out. Better use Rubycon YXF series sticking to the original voltage, they are long lasting low ESR ones BUT their ESR is high enough to prevent instabilities in voltage regulation in such specific spot.
The monitor works again but given the burnt components issue with unknown causes on the G board, I strongly advise to doublecheck all voltage lines are withing specifications, you're never too cautious with weird failures like these.
Also, don't hesitate to replace the capacitors after each LDO regulator, most of them are likely to be worn out. Better use Rubycon YXF series sticking to the original voltage, they are long lasting low ESR ones BUT their ESR is high enough to prevent instabilities in voltage regulation in such specific spot.
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Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
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Thanks for the reports Bakuku. Unfortunate to hear you couldn't find off the shelf replacements for the EEPROMs. Hopefully this doesn't become a common issue with these chips in the future.
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