24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Alec_B said:
So my fw900 (and g520 coincidentally) have a geometry issue where the top left and right corner droop a little and the bottom left and right raise a little, loosely illustrated in this photo.
Is there a winDas adjustment or internal adjustment that can fix this?
I’m familiar with yoke adjustments and can’t imagine a way to move the yoke that would make it better.
Thanks !
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There's a windas geometry guide hanging out somewhere on this thread, may take a bit of hunting - it's either a pdf or doc file. Bit tedious to adjust geometry though.
 
spacediver said:
There's a windas geometry guide hanging out somewhere on this thread, may take a bit of hunting - it's either a pdf or doc file. Bit tedious to adjust geometry though.
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Found it. There are some adjustments that sort of seem like they might help but it’s pretty hard to understand.
 
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As to feeling, I guess it doesn't matter as much on a CRT, because of the lack of input lag? However, I decided to go ahead and go for the highest resolution I can get on the FW900 at 100 Hz. (GTF timings anyway.)

(I don't like to run things at the absolute limit, but life is short. As many of us have been reminded...)
 
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Would anyone have a source on a company that can manufacture a new CRT? I can, very teatively, spend up to 100K on the project.
 
There is no way thats going to happen for that little money, you would likely have to spend 10s of millions to even be able to make basic low rez mono tubes. Making good CRTs was basically an artform, and there are very few people still around that could even show how to do it anymore. The last CRT factory was bought by a chinese company and moved to china, and they were unable to make anything but nonfunctional junk. They gave up after that and scapped the factory.

It would likely take years upon years to even relearn how to make working mono tubes, much less high resolution color ones. Then there is making new flybacks and all the other things required by CRTs, that no one makes anymore either. You would need to set up multiple factories and a supply chain to get enough parts to even make basic sets. Unless you can convince elon musk to get into CRT manufacture, this is never going to happen.
 
SH1 said:
As to feeling, I guess it doesn't matter as much on a CRT, because of the lack of input lag? However, I decided to go ahead and go for the highest resolution I can get on the FW900 at 100 Hz. (GTF timings anyway.)
(I don't like to run things at the absolute limit, but life is short. As many of us have been reminded...)
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Display's own latency is only part of whole input to photon latency because of internal buffering used by display pipeline.
Because of that refresh rate matters a lot even on CRT that has signal to latency counted in nano-seconds.

100Hz is imho good target for FW900 and with RTSS scanline sync will provide excellent input lag. With just using v-sync rather than scanline sync input lag will increase enough it will be higher than eg. 120Hz LCD with VRR @ 100fps.
 
Has anyone ever removed the stand of an fw900? I have two, one with a cracked stand and want to swap but looks pretty damn difficult.
 
I *think* one of my early FW900's had a mismatched stand that I had swapped from another one, but I can't remember for sure.
 
Alec_B said:
Has anyone ever removed the stand of an fw900? I have two, one with a cracked stand and want to swap but looks pretty damn difficult.
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this user seem to have removed the stand to put those 3 fw900 screens vertically together a while ago, i think he is also member of this forum under name "vega", maybe ask him?



 
Trinitron F.O.R.E.V.A. :D

Back in the day, these were da bomb in terms of picture quality, and ALOT of monitor brands used Sony's tubes & hdwr inside, with their own branded plastic on the outside, that way they could post up virtually identical specs to each other & not worry about the tubes failing or having other issues.....

I remember buying an Apple Studio display way back when my 1st wife was into graphic design (mid-80's), simply because the picture quality was so much better than any other brands at the time that used other brands of guts....
 
3dfan said:
this user seem to have removed the stand to put those 3 fw900 screens vertically together a while ago, i think he is also member of this forum under name "vega", maybe ask him?



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Dat bezel though. He ended up putting freznel lenses in front of them to mitigate.
 
dogDAbone said:
Trinitron F.O.R.E.V.A. :D

Back in the day, these were da bomb in terms of picture quality, and ALOT of monitor brands used Sony's tubes & hdwr inside, with their own branded plastic on the outside, that way they could post up virtually identical specs to each other & not worry about the tubes failing or having other issues.....
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Trinitrons were not the best when it comes to image quality and especially GDM-FW900.
Diamondtrons used better phosphors and better darker coating resulting in much better colors.

Especially FW900 is somewhat disappointing in terms of colors because or rather strange choice of phosphors and AG layer they used on this model. Should they used EBU phosphors and AG they used on (some) European PVMs image quality would be much much better. Colors I have on SONY PVM 14M2E absolutely destroy FW900. The only reason SONY GDM-FW900 is considered the best CRT to have is its size and 16:10 aspect ratio giving much bigger 16:10 and 16:9 picture size.

Unfortunately CRT tech had too many flaws for manufacturers to bother continuing development and production and 22.5 inch 16:10 monitor is the largest we got for PC.
 
Thank you, XoR_. I'll check out RTSS scanline sync.

Diamondtrons versus Trinitrons, subjective I guess. I've had both and prefer Trinitrons. (Agree that the plastic film on the FW900 is disappointing.)

Eventually, yes, how were CRTs going to scale to the sizes needed for HD? Doesn't seem possible and that's certainly a flaw. However, CRTs died prematurely, because people just stopped buying them. And stores discouraged folks from buying them. Even though the LCDs at that time were often not bigger and had terrible pictures in comparison. To my mind, folks were basically conned by the whole light and flat thing.

Sony tried to hang in there. They had new innovations already that never made it out of the lab and were likely still developing CRT tech, but the market just collapsed.
 
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My FW900 has developed a discoloration on top towards the middle. For example, a little reddish spot on a pure blue image. Out of range of the landing controls. So far no help from the internal nor from a hand degausser. Only positioning a magnet above it seems to resolve. (The supposedly magnetically shielded speakers I was using are not. Wondering if that led to this...)
 
SH1 said:
My FW900 has developed a discoloration on top towards the middle. For example, a little reddish spot on a pure blue image. Out of range of the landing controls. So far no help from the internal nor from a hand degausser. Only positioning a magnet above it seems to resolve. (The supposedly magnetically shielded speakers I was using are not. Wondering if that led to this...)
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You may check with the service manual but I don't think a hand degausser is recommended for this unit becuase of some magnetic thing it has... Or maybe that was the F520. Anyways -you'll want to check. I'll bet it goes away over time.
 
SH1 said:
Thank you, XoR_. I'll check out RTSS scanline sync.

Diamondtrons versus Trinitrons, subjective I guess. I've had both and prefer Trinitrons. (Agree that the plastic film on the FW900 is disappointing.)

Eventually, yes, how were CRTs going to scale to the sizes needed for HD? Doesn't seem possible and that's certainly a flaw. However, CRTs died prematurely, because people just stopped buying them. And stores discouraged folks from buying them. Even though the LCDs at that time were often not bigger and had terrible pictures in comparison. To my mind, folks were basically conned by the whole light and flat thing.

Sony tried to hang in there. They had new innovations already that never made it out of the lab and were likely still developing CRT tech, but the market just collapsed.
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Sony had a .19mm pitch in development according to Vito. That was all scrapped though. Shame that we never got to see its evolution.

XoR_ - I've also had Diamondtrons and I don't think I'd say the picture was better. I think their color gamut was the same as Sony's (Rec 601). I will say though. They were built a hell of a lot better. Absolute tanks compared to Sony's latest generation of CRT.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
You may check with the service manual but I don't think a hand degausser is recommended for this unit becuase of some magnetic thing it has... Or maybe that was the F520. Anyways -you'll want to check. I'll bet it goes away over time.
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Yeah it does indicate to make sure the unit is off during usage of an external degausser. The offending speakers are belatedly moved away from the monitor. Will give it some time to hopefully clear...
 
3dfan said:

SH1, what about trying the image restoration feature?​

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I love image restore. I think it gives these units extra life. Maybe even was a game changer versus traditional CRT lifespan expectations. Alas, it doesn't seem to help with this particular issue.

If it's not clearing, I can also try moving the monitor to a new spot. That helped with a previous monitor if I recall...
 
I've read that external degaussing coils aren't recommended with aperture grille tubes? Because the aperture wires could crisscross?

Because my Diamondtron has some very slight impurity at the top almost in left corner. I'd like to try a degaussing coil on it. Maybe if I start a little further away than I would with a CRT TV?
 
Would suggest starting gentle as you say. And making sure it's off first. (All the way off, not standby, if that's a thing.)
 
Enhanced Interrogator said:
Any reason why? Heat maybe?
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As jbltecnicspro mentioned the manual warns:

Note: Hand degauss must be used on stand-by or power-off condition.This model has an automatic earth magnetism correction function by using an earthmagnetism sensor and a LCC coil. When using a hand degauss while monitor (LCCcoil) is being operated, it sometimes gets magnetized, and the system may not workproperly as a result.

(Guess stand-by off is good enough. This was from FW900 manual, but I suspect it to be more widely applicable.)

EDIT: On mine, I suspect that magnetism sensor and apparently linked internal degaussing coil is no longer completely functional. However, found the brief application of a magnet to the left upper corner clears the discoloration. (Until the next use of the on/off switch triggers the internal coil and brings it back anyway. Guess I have a treatment now, if not a cure. Degaussing of course is normally the best course of action. And not recommending anyone else go with the magnet approach, which is not, well, ideal.)
 
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SH1 said:
As jbltecnicspro mentioned the manual warns:

Note: Hand degauss must be used on stand-by or power-off condition.This model has an automatic earth magnetism correction function by using an earthmagnetism sensor and a LCC coil. When using a hand degauss while monitor (LCCcoil) is being operated, it sometimes gets magnetized, and the system may not workproperly as a result.

(Guess stand-by off is good enough. This was from FW900 manual, but I suspect it to be more widely applicable.)
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Yes that’s the thing! I wasn’t sure of the FW-900 had one or if it was the 520 and its brother.
 
SH1 said:
I love image restore. I think it gives these units extra life. Maybe even was a game changer versus traditional CRT lifespan expectations. Alas, it doesn't seem to help with this particular issue.

If it's not clearing, I can also try moving the monitor to a new spot. That helped with a previous monitor if I recall...
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Better to use WinDAS for extending lifespan though. Image restore is pretty much hit or miss with some randomness to it.
It did save me few times the trouble of having to use WinDAS on IBM P275 but on wo other Trinitrons including my FW900 didn't manage to fix anything, just change few internal values and not sure if for the better.

As to magnetized monitor its probably the best to get external coil and give it a shot or two.
 
XoR_ said:
Better to use WinDAS for extending lifespan though. Image restore is pretty much hit or miss with some randomness to it.
It did save me few times the trouble of having to use WinDAS on IBM P275 but on wo other Trinitrons including my FW900 didn't manage to fix anything, just change few internal values and not sure if for the better.

As to magnetized monitor its probably the best to get external coil and give it a shot or two.
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I always did the WPB adjust and never touched image restore.
 
I read that they used to say CRTs were good for 3-5 years before being serviced or replaced. And have always figured that Image Restore was an easier way to get past that.

Most dramatically, I had an F520 shutting down when bringing up its built in stress test image. It has over 18K hours and I wasn't expecting much, but after Image Restore it is no longer failing that test.

I've not been in WinDAS for some time. I certainly agree that it is an essential tool in ultimately preserving these aged beasts. Best that we can...
 
In a similar vain, this study actually refers to the "Reset" button not Image Restore?

11.24 Color Temporal Control
The IEC Program Office had requested a method to control color in a monitor over time. In response to this request, NIDL investigated use ofthe built-in Sony factory reset button on the front panel of the monitor. The procedure is to reset the color monitor to the factory default color temperature (9300K) and red, green, and blue gun drive conditions to compensate for any drift. Lmin is then adjusted to 0.1 fL. The Sony FW900 monitor was run 24/7 for two months. During this time the luminance and CIE color coordinates were periodically measured after first resetting the monitor. Table 11.24-1 shows that the CIE x,y color coordinates for white, red, green, and blue are reproducible over a two month period. Thus, use of the front panel reset button is a practical way to assure a consistency of color over time
https://ntrl.ntis.gov/NTRL/dashboard/searchResults/titleDetail/ADA415156.xhtml
 
Been spending a bit of quality time today with my old friend. Refining geometry for the resolution I've now adopted of 1800 by 1152 at 100 and some other stuff. And noticed something:

1920 by 1080, aka HD, 2,073,600 pixels.

1800 by 1152, the most I can get at 100 Hz with GTF timings and seemingly almost over spec, 2,073,600 pixels.

Almost like some ancient Easter Egg?
 
Just picked this gem of a unit up recently. She's only 17in but always good to find a zero hour unit; especially a Sun branded flat screen with a Samsung tube. Also, just like it's bigger 21in brethren this unit is built like a tank and quite heavy!
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cool

that reminds me the beautifulness and pleasureness it was to go shopping to a brand new CRT monitor back in the 90s and early 2000s, when those were everywere in computer shops, all of them had beautifull motion quality, sharp enough, blacks, viewing angles, colors, latency, brightfull enough (honestly i dont remember ever seeing a brand new CRT monitor regardless what brand and size it was, being "dim" or "somewhat dim" as some people claim on the internet about how bright they are/were, they were and are enough brightfully that i remember even on computer shops with plenty of lights they still looked brightful enough). so it was hard to note quality difference between them when taking purchasing decisions.

you had so many good quality options back then to choose and with afordable prices so to decide your purchase you practically just needed to decide bewteen screen size, max resolutions and refresh rates.
 
3dfan said:
cool

that reminds me the beautifulness and pleasureness it was to go shopping to a brand new CRT monitor back in the 90s and early 2000s, when those were everywere in computer shops, all of them had beautifull motion quality, sharp enough, blacks, viewing angles, colors, latency, brightfull enough (honestly i dont remember ever seeing a brand new CRT monitor regardless what brand and size it was, being "dim" or "somewhat dim" as some people claim on the internet about how bright they are/were, they were and are enough brightfully that i remember even on computer shops with plenty of lights they still looked brightful enough). so it was hard to note quality difference between them when taking purchasing decisions.

you had so many good quality options back then to choose and with afordable prices so to decide your purchase you practically just needed to decide bewteen screen size, max resolutions and refresh rates.
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Yes. Little did we know what the future would bring once these beautiful pieces of tech were phased out. 😢 i picked this one up just to keep in storage with the intent of pulling her out here and there to make sure she still works. Just wanted to save her and show her to the youngsters in 20 years if I'm still around. 😉
 
Enhanced Interrogator said:
I just wonder how all these people have the space to keep a CRT new in the box for 20 years.
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You would be amazed. Sometimes shit just sits on shelves. I went to a local hardware store a few months ago. Literally built in the 1850's. We went around back and there were things there that had to have been over 50 years old just sitting there.
 
cesarioFL71 said:
Just picked this gem of a unit up recently. She's only 17in but always good to find a zero hour unit; especially a Sun branded flat screen with a Samsung tube. Also, just like it's bigger 21in brethren this unit is built like a tank and quite heavy!View attachment 557554
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I need to find something like this for my kids' dos box that I want to build them. Nice find.
 
3dfan said:
that reminds me the beautifulness and pleasureness it was to go shopping to a brand new CRT monitor back in the 90s and early 2000s, when those were everywere in computer shops, all of them had beautifull motion quality, sharp enough, blacks, viewing angles, colors, latency, brightfull enough (honestly i dont remember ever seeing a brand new CRT monitor regardless what brand and size it was, being "dim" or "somewhat dim" as some people claim on the internet about how bright they are/were, they were and are enough brightfully that i remember even on computer shops with plenty of lights they still looked brightful enough). so it was hard to note quality difference between them when taking purchasing decisions.
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Certainly some displays were pretty dim by todays standards but somehow the way CRT worked did give impression image look kinda HDR-like even on not so bright displays. Maybe it was because eyes got as quickly as on very bright modern displays 😎

Most VGA monitors had very similar colors, similar tube tech and phosphors. Even the cheap monitors with permanently attached VGA cable you connected and had (and if relatively good condition still have!) very beautiful colors and were only dimmer and had much less calibration options - which didn't matter as much when they were new and only started to matter when they aged.

When LCD came quality difference between common cheap monitors with TN panels and expensive models with IPS was was much bigger than between cheap CRT and expensive CRT.
 
XoR_ said:
When LCD came quality difference between common cheap monitors with TN panels and expensive models with IPS was was much bigger than between cheap CRT and expensive CRT.
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I've seen some questionable geometry on high-end sets and almost perfect geometry on low-end sets. So yeah, no argument here. :)
 
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