24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

l33tgms

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If anyone is wondering some russians selling FW900 on eBay now. They also have NOS 2070SB but their prices are too high for me.
 

Strat_84

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According to the ebay history the guy has tried to find a dupe for more than one month, didn't work. So he decreased the price (but increased a lot the shipping costs at the same time ), and threatens in the description to stop listing the item in 2021. Hey, it seems like people start to learn some common sense (or there are no brainless people left looking for one), as no one fell in the trap so far. :LOL:

3300€ inc. shipping for a 20 years old used monitor with a scratched antireflective layer on the top of that. That pathetic joke. :facepalm:
 

l33tgms

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I'm not trying to protect him or anything but do you do realize that coating is easy to remove even by a handicapped person, right? That should be the least of people concern IMO.
If you so worried about leaving the monitor without it there's plenty of modern solutions with way better anti-glare properties also less thick (not sure why would anyone need one but OK to each their own).
Plus, according to eBay listings it is still x2 less than this monitor was sold for so I don't see anything pathetic about, If we adjust to inflation MSRP will be around the same ballpark now in 2020.
Sure it is used and the price is high but do you have a better option or a deal? Willing to sell me yours for $100 maybe? I mean, it is always way easier to count somebody else's money but I wonder how many FW900 owners willing to sell their tubes for less money here because I'm all ears.
It's not like they just laying around here and there, especially in good working condition.
Recently it was sold for 5 grand too so I'm not sure who's the dupe here. Guy can just wait for a few months and sell it for 5-6 grand in the end if not more yet he decided to backpedal for some reason.
Me personally can't find a single damn FW900's around for years, so to me it is a wonder that it's possible to buy them at all. Shame that I don't have enough money tho
 

Strat_84

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I'm not trying to protect him or anything but do you do realize that coating is easy to remove even by a handicapped person, right? That should be the least of people concern IMO.
If you so worried about leaving the monitor without it there's plenty of modern solutions with way better anti-glare properties also less thick (not sure why would anyone need one but OK to each their own).
Well, you definitively don't have a clue about what you're talking about.

If replacing that kind of film was that easy, we'd have found a good alternative long ago, not just placeholders. Way better ? Good luck finding that. It's a custom film with specific electrical and optical properties, the only way to have it is to manufacture it on specification and the few companies that could do that will laugh at you for any order of a lower magnitude than hundreds of square meters.

And before you think about pretending a monitor without a film is OK (or even makes the display better like that russian retard does, but well, he's trying to sell his junk after all), no, it's not. It's just the last possibility you have to make the picture less bad than with a heavily damaged film. But that film is there for good reasons and it's required for a good quality display.

As for the rest of your post, sorry but your reasoning is utter bullshit.

Is it how it works ? If Bill Gates has a whim and pays some garbage 200 millions $ on ebay, does that become the right price for this ? And I'm no selling anything by the way, don't get me into this. I'm neither on the side of the selling robbers, nor on the one of childish people wanting their toy at all costs after watching a video. Yes, I say childish, most of them must be, otherwise they'd realize there are decent LCDs available at way lower prices even though inferior in some areas (there still are some benefits though, let's be honest. Perfect geometry is one of them).
But at least they'd be in a new condition, don't come with the risk to have paid a fortune to just see the monitor fail a few months later like it happened recently to someone here (or worse, to have been sold a lemon right from the start), don't require to be recalibrated nor the hassle of finding decent analog converters to use them.
 

l33tgms

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My dear, sometimes it is a good idea to stay shut and stop spreading your heresy in front of people. That way you can at least look smarter.
Judging by your repeated edgy posts related to everyone who's trying to sell their FW900's for more than $100 I can tell that you are nothing but a butthurt kid who can't afford one either is a lowball, who wants one for free in NOS condition. Who is also swearing like a drunk sailor probably thinking that it will make him look more mature or if that somewhat magically adds weight to his gibberish and that everyone's around him (or at least mostly) people are idiots (because duh, if he can't find a good replacement parts then nobody can and so on).
Either way, it is a waste of time talking to such in arrogant and ignorant pal so good luck.
I am here not to convince people or dissuade them.
I even regret that I notified about it in the first place.
PS I wonder why do you sit in this thread at all if many of your posts here nothing but a butthurt swearing garbage about how people shouldn't pay for them and buy cheaper LCD garbage instead 'because they have better geometry or something like that' that adds nothing to the community. That's a rhetorical question.
Sorry for the off-topic, I'm out.
 

Strat_84

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My dear, sometimes it is a good idea to stay shut and stop spreading your heresy in front of people. That way you can at least look smarter.
Judging by your repeated edgy posts related to everyone who's trying to sell their FW900's for more than $100 I can tell that you are nothing but a butthurt kid who can't afford one either is a lowball, who wants one for free in NOS condition. Who is also swearing like a drunk sailor probably thinking that it will make him look more mature or if that somewhat magically adds weight to his gibberish and that everyone's around him (or at least mostly) people are idiots (because duh, if he can't find a good replacement parts then nobody can and so on).
Either way, it is a waste of time talking to such in arrogant and ignorant pal so good luck.
I am here not to convince people or dissuade them.
I even regret that I notified about it in the first place.
PS I wonder why do you sit in this thread at all if many of your posts here nothing but a butthurt swearing garbage about how people shouldn't pay for them and buy cheaper LCD garbage instead 'because they have better geometry or something like that' that adds nothing to the community. That's a rhetorical question.
Sorry for the off-topic, I'm out.

Well, it's funny because the only people I would think could take offense of someone warning about the dangers/shortcomings of buying an expensive CRT in 2020 would be ... the people trying to take advantage of someone's naivety to sell those CRTs irrelevant amounts of money.

Wouldn't you be Russian by some very unexpectable coincidence ? :D

And for your information, I bought 3 of these monitors for 40€, that was 4 or 5 years ago. All had some damage but still. At the time it was well worth trying to repair them considering a decent LCD of similar size did cost at least 500€, and wasn't still as good regarding several display quality aspects. Many of the long present posters of this thread acquired theirs in a similar situation, for prices easily below 100$.
But today would it be worth spending 3000€+ for a single CRT, not in perfect condition, considering the LCDs currently available and their price ? I don't think so, not with the goal to use them as a display.
 

jka

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...not with the goal to use them as a display.
2271375718_6a814a880b_b.jpg

I say we all pitch in and buy that sucker for 3K. Then you will see a flood of soviet block monitors on eBay, looking to feed the demand that is not really there. Then we watch those prices slowly fall to the bottom, at which point we all buy spares :whistle:

I bought my FW900 for $250 in 2018 or so. Any other CRT I have was always $100 or less. Honestly most people will not know how to enjoy PC CRTs anymore, it takes a lot of knowledge to keep them running nice, most people just do not have the patience to learn all that - they just want to game. I would also say that low-res CRT is probably more important for consoles than PCs. PC games are hi-res so they look nice on new hi-res monitors as well. But all those 240p games really feel much more different on a low-res CRTs. In the end though, we will all (need to) have 8K+ OLEDS with CRT shaders and AI image enhancers/upscalers anyway.

In theory, 3K for FW900 would be reasonable, if you expected it to be fully working for 10 years. These days you are lucky if you use CRT for one year without it dying. If Uncle Vito was doing rounds where I live and said: hey, here is a contract for 10 years for full service and free repairs, all guaranteed and backed by a big stock of old parts, then I would gladly take his offer.
 

ecruz010

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Hello,

I'm considering getting an FW900, but most of the ones I've seen have scuffs in the anti glare.

My question is. If the antiglare coat is removed from the monitor, how dark does the room have to be for it to look good? I'm asking because the curtains in my apartment rental don't block sunlight completely, and am wondering if i could just turn off all the lights and bring down the curtains and be able to have a good image still or if I'd be just a night-only monitor.
 

Strat_84

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Without antireflective film every single bit of ambiant light hits the phosphors and is reflected back, that makes the black grey. You'd need to be in a total dark to mitigate that phenomenon.
Removing the film also means static electricity building up on the tube and a lack of electromagnetic shielding, this shouldn't be done unless it is heavily damaged.
 

SH1

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I could not get my FW900 to resolve black even in a very dark room without the filter. Got it to work again with the Kantek filter. (The details are in a post I put end of last year.) Not for everyone though as it requires the monitor be debezeled.

And the caveat others mentioned about not spending much on something that might break pretty quickly at this point. (Unless it's NOS or you've got enough money that it wouldn't bother you.)
 

ecruz010

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Thanks Strat_84 SH1 . I'm a bit willing to take the risk, but based on your responses I guess I'll wait to find one with the antiglare in decent condition before deciding to pay a ton of money for it.
 
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XoR_

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I'm considering getting an FW900, but most of the ones I've seen have scuffs in the anti glare.

My question is. If the antiglare coat is removed from the monitor, how dark does the room have to be for it to look good? I'm asking because the curtains in my apartment rental don't block sunlight completely, and am wondering if i could just turn off all the lights and bring down the curtains and be able to have a good image still or if I'd be just a night-only monitor.
If you get such monitor and do not have replacement ready do not remove AG and use it scratched.
Also do not buy overpriced used monitors.

Thanks Strat_84 SH1 . I'm a bit willing to take the risk, but based on your responses I guess I'll wait to find one with the antiglare in decent condition before deciding to pay a ton of money for one.
Why?
Opinions in this thread today are the same as they were 10-15 years ago and this is total bullshit. Today if you have ton's of money you can get 27" 4K 120Hz with FALD, HDR and true G-Sync... or huge 120Hz OLED TV, also with HDR
I am a bit CRT lover myself but I would never pay >1000$ for FW900 and just grabbed 4:3 Trinitron for free or seek 22" Diamondtron. These have nicer colors and not SMPTE C bullshit FW900 has.

If replacing that kind of film was that easy, we'd have found a good alternative long ago, not just placeholders. Way better ? Good luck finding that. It's a custom film with specific electrical and optical properties, the only way to have it is to manufacture it on specification and the few companies that could do that will laugh at you for any order of a lower magnitude than hundreds of square meters.
Original AG coating on FW900 was nothing I would personally want to replicate. It was pretty light not providing enough contrast boost and had greenish tint, yuck.
I do not have any electrostatic charge build up with polarizer and it removed one of the most irritating trait of CRT monitors: seeing my own face.

Very good alternative would be coating used on Panasonic VT plasmas. You could run ceiling lights for "ambient lighting" with these and if difference between GT and VT models is any indication these would be perfect for FW900. Still worse at removing glare than polarizer... or even original FW900 coating.
 

datspike

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I've seen that NOS 2070sb for sale on avito for 10k roubles = 135 usd. So that guy bought it and decided to sell it on ebay, huh.

Strat_84 it seems like my F520 problems which I've encountered after placing a cap on the B+ line in reverse polarity are tied to that MCZ3001D IC.
I've checked every component by following your post on possible issues with B+ voltage line and everything seemed fine.
I've replaced it with an IC from a dead FW900, hopefully it would start now after a full assembly.

I also have an E530 which does exactly the same thing F520 did after that disaster. 3 click sounds and B+ error code.
 
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LAGRUNAUER

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I've seen that NOS 2070sb for sale on avito for 10k roubles = 135 usd. So that guy bought it and decided to sell it on ebay, huh.

Strat_84 it seems like my F520 problems which I've encountered after placing a cap on the B+ line in reverse polarity are tied to that MCZ3001D IC.
I've checked every component by following your post on possible issues with B+ voltage line and everything seemed fine.
I've replaced it with an IC from a dead FW900, hopefully it would start now after a full assembly.

I also have an E530 which does exactly the same thing F520 did after that disaster. 3 click sounds and B+ error code.

Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB NOS NEW CRT MONITOR​


Are people aware that the Diamond Pro 2070 NOS and the LaCie ElectronBlue IV have the same tube? We evaluated both units a few years ago, and concluded that the LaCie ElectronBlue IV has better color rendition and better image quality than the DP 2070 NOS...

Unkle Vito!
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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LAGRUNAUER When you were looking at those Diamondtrons, did you notice vertical stretching in the top 5% or so of the picture? From what I've read, it seems like a very common problem on these late Diamondtrons. My LaCie E22BIV definitely has it.

Do you have any clue on how somebody would remedy that? There isn't enough granularity in the firmware's linearity controls, so I think it would have to be something manual. Maybe a slight tweak to certain components in the vertical deflection curcuitry?
 

jbltecnicspro

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LAGRUNAUER When you were looking at those Diamondtrons, did you notice vertical stretching in the top 5% or so of the picture? From what I've read, it seems like a very common problem on these late Diamondtrons. My LaCie E22BIV definitely has it.

Do you have any clue on how somebody would remedy that? There isn't enough granularity in the firmware's linearity controls, so I think it would have to be something manual. Maybe a slight tweak to certain components in the vertical deflection curcuitry?
Yoke placement can affect linearity. Could be that the folks assembling the monitor were just getting sloppy?
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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This doesn't look like a yoke issue, with how it switches from normal to stretched only at the very top row of boxes:
 

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jbltecnicspro

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This doesn't look like a yoke issue, with how it switches from normal to stretched only at the very top row of boxes:
Thanks for the picture. Worth 1000 words. I agree with you this doesn't look like a yoke issue. Could some of the caps on the deflection board be getting old? I'm kind of surprised you cannot fix this with the controls. What model is your monitor?
 

LAGRUNAUER

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LAGRUNAUER When you were looking at those Diamondtrons, did you notice vertical stretching in the top 5% or so of the picture? From what I've read, it seems like a very common problem on these late Diamondtrons. My LaCie E22BIV definitely has it.

Do you have any clue on how somebody would remedy that? There isn't enough granularity in the firmware's linearity controls, so I think it would have to be something manual. Maybe a slight tweak to certain components in the vertical deflection curcuitry?
No... we didn't notice what you are stating... Please provide us an image(s) of the issue....

Unkle Vito!
 

Strat_84

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Yoke placement can affect linearity. Could be that the folks assembling the monitor were just getting sloppy?
It's not necessarily a placement problem, the way yokes are built can be a problem by itself, or the quality of the circuit before the yoke. I have several P1130, some have a yoke made in Japan, some others have what seem to be a cheap, more compact version that was made in China. The ones with the Japanese yokes all achieve a perfect convergence, whereas the ones with the Chinese yoke all have the exact same horizontal convergence faults, and these can't be fixed despite the zone convergence adjustment system.
 

jbltecnicspro

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It's not necessarily a placement problem, the way yokes are built can be a problem by itself, or the quality of the circuit before the yoke. I have several P1130, some have a yoke made in Japan, some others have what seem to be a cheap, more compact version that was made in China. The ones with the Japanese yokes all achieve a perfect convergence, whereas the ones with the Chinese yoke all have the exact same horizontal convergence faults, and these can't be fixed despite the zone convergence adjustment system.
Japan makes better electronics than China? That's news to me. :D
 
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I have a functioning FW900 I might end up selling, wonder what a fair price is, have the 3k ebay ones actually been selling?
 

jbltecnicspro

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I have a functioning FW900 I might end up selling, wonder what a fair price is, have the 3k ebay ones actually been selling?
Depending on condition, I wouldn’t pay more than 500 for one. Hours don’t matter at this point, though they do have an impact on picture quality obviously. I’m not paying more than that for a monitor to grenade on me.
 

LAGRUNAUER

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What equipment and which procedures did you use to reproduce the image(s)? Was the unit you tested properly calibrated, aligned, and adjusted to factory standards before you started testing it?

We use state of the art equipment in our lab, and every unit we evaluated in the past was properly calibrated, aligned, and adjusted to factory standards before the evaluations started...

Again, we didn't notice what you are stating.

In short, like I stated before, both monitors in question have the exact picture tube, they produce great images and render good colors; but the LaCie ElectronBlue IV performed better (better color rendition and better image quality) in our evaluation.

Hope this helps...

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

LAGRUNAUER

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I have a functioning FW900 I might end up selling, wonder what a fair price is, have the 3k ebay ones actually been selling?

List it on eBay, and test the market for "offer and demand"... I see a few of them listed on eBay but they have not move... Also, you may try the local Craigslist...

If you sell it on eBay, make absolutely sure that you know how to properly pack these monitors... It is not that easy to properly pack the monitor, and if the unit arrives to the buyer destroyed, you will lose the unit and your money as PayPal and/or the Credit Card will reverse the charge.

If you don't have access to a professional CRT packing outfit (there are not that many left in the US), list it as a local pickup...

Hope this helps...

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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What equipment and which procedures did you use to reproduce the image(s)? Was the unit you tested properly calibrated, aligned, and adjusted to factory standards before you started testing it?

I know it's not related to the test pattern, because this stretching can be seen whether I have a PC, game console, or anything else hooked up.

I bought this monitor in 2012 when it had around 6,000 or 7,000 hours on it, and this stretching always been there, and hasn't changed as far as I can tell. I imagine it was very close to "factory standards" when I got it. So I believe this is a sort of manufacturing defect that is common some Diamondtron chassis
 

LAGRUNAUER

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I know it's not related to the test pattern, because this stretching can be seen whether I have a PC, game console, or anything else hooked up.

I bought this monitor in 2012 when it had around 6,000 or 7,000 hours on it, and this stretching always been there, and hasn't changed as far as I can tell. I imagine it was very close to "factory standards" when I got it. So I believe this is a sort of manufacturing defect that is common some Diamondtron chassis
Then you answered your own question.... It is an issue with the unit you own, which may have developed functional issues (with time and heavy usage) which may be causing the problems you are experiencing...

I seriously doubt that the unit had those issues when it came out the factory, and I am not (was never) aware that DiamondTron tubes and rebranded monitors using these tubes came out of the manufacturing lines with the "defects" you are stating... Never heard of that before...

Unkle Vito!
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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Then you answered your own question.... It is an issue with the unit you own, which may have developed functional issues (with time and heavy usage)
My point is that 6,000 hours isn't a lot, by professional monitor standards. And the issue hasn't become worse (or better) since I got it 8 years ago, which leads me to believe it's not a problem that arises with progressive wear and use.

I mean, I don't have hundreds of reports, but I've heard from a dozen or so users with Diamondtrons over at CRTgaming on Reddit that their monitors have the same issue.

Like a couple of them had the Mitsubishi 2070sb, a few had the LaCie e22bIV like I do, a few had the NEC FP2141. That's what leads me to believe there is some problem with the design, of this generation in particular.
 

jbltecnicspro

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^^ I had a 930pro or 920pro? It was a 21 inch Mitsu and it didn’t have that problem. I think it was the same monitor that the Electron Blue II was based.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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^^ I had a 930pro or 920pro? It was a 21 inch Mitsu and it didn’t have that problem. I think it was the same monitor that the Electron Blue II was based.
Yeah, I think it was only a thing in some of the last Diamondtrons produced around 2002-2004.

I should probably do a Google search from the early 00's to see if it was talked about back then.
 

LAGRUNAUER

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My point is that 6,000 hours isn't a lot, by professional monitor standards. And the issue hasn't become worse (or better) since I got it 8 years ago, which leads me to believe it's not a problem that arises with progressive wear and use.

I mean, I don't have hundreds of reports, but I've heard from a dozen or so users with Diamondtrons over at CRTgaming on Reddit that their monitors have the same issue.

Like a couple of them had the Mitsubishi 2070sb, a few had the LaCie e22bIV like I do, a few had the NEC FP2141. That's what leads me to believe there is some problem with the design, of this generation in particular.

I respectfully disagree with your conclusions... and again, you did answer your own question...

Unkle Vito!
 

Derupter

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This doesn't look like a yoke issue, with how it switches from normal to stretched only at the very top row of boxes:
My brother's LaCie electron22blueIV has the same problem.
He bought it new in 2004, should be made in Nagasaki.
I don't remember that problem when it was new, so it should have come out over the years.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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My brother's LaCie electron22blueIV has the same problem.
He bought it new in 2004, should be made in Nagasaki.
I don't remember that problem when it was new, so it should have come out over the years.

It's harder to see when you're running fullscreen 4:3, it's more subtle. So there's a chance you just didn't notice it back then

In my picture it's running 2560x1600 (16:10). It's especially pronounced when running 16:9 from modern consoles.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Sounds like yes, the linearity is jacked on the yoke then. Or, as I said, it was sloppily aligned at the factory.

I should know. I did a full yoke realign on a PVM of mine. Yoke position will affect the outcome of linearity.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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The linearity and convergence is perfect every where else on the screen, so I'd be pretty paranoid about adjusting it. That's also why I don't think it's the yoke postion.

Linearity is pretty good until you hit the top 5%, then it seems to stretch almost exponentially. Like each line is a little further away than the previous one. I took a closeup of my PS4 running at 720p and you can see the individual lines.

The way it goes from "fine" to "funhouse mirror" in such a short distance makes me think it's something besides the orientation of the yoke
 

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jbltecnicspro

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You can have jacked linearity with good convergence and linearity everywhere else. Convergence is correctable both electronically and with magnets. Linearity is also electronically correctable to a point.

Mechanical setup is paramount. Always was, always will be. I learned a “fun” lesson with the PVM. Had it aligned and converged only to find the horizontal linearity was bad. Took a scrolling image to first catch it. Man that sucked. Back to the yoke. :(

So yeah, if it’s not terrible then I’d leave it alone too.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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You can have jacked linearity with good convergence and linearity everywhere else.
Yeah, I understand that but when you consider the specific nature of this linearity error, and how it matches many other Diamondtron owners, like Derupter's brother mentioned above, I'm thinking it's some electronic or maybe even firmware issue.

I mean, if it was a yoke alignment issue, then it would have to have happened at the factory to thousands of other monitors (if I extrapolate my sample size of a dozen or so people out to the production run of these late Diamondtrons). Right?
 

jbltecnicspro

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Yeah, I understand that but when you consider the specific nature of this linearity error, and how it matches many other Diamondtron owners, like Derupter's brother mentioned above, I'm thinking it's some electronic or maybe even firmware issue.

I mean, if it was a yoke alignment issue, then it would have to have happened at the factory to thousands of other monitors (if I extrapolate my sample size of a dozen or so people out to the production run of these late Diamondtrons). Right?
Sure. But if in later runs, they loosened tolerances because time is money. Then that could account for it too. Only one way to find out, but it’s difficult and probably not worth your time (null out the electronic controls and realign it from scratch like at the factory).

For what it’s worth, I realigned the PVM because it was bad. Like, real bad. It was obviously retubed and done badly. It looks great now! But it was a pain in the ass to do.
 
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