24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

jbltecnicspro

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Hahaa. My friend recently got a laptop with a 240Hz screen and brought it over for some LAN. Of course, it still just couldn't compete with 720p 125Hz of my G90f in terms of motion clarity. Though, he was actually impressed with the colors more than that. But, that's probably just cause his screen wasn't calibrated and mine is. The 94% sRGB coverage of my G90f might have really been better than his stock screen.

I’m assuming that his screen is an IPS. I’ll bet the colors pop more on the CRT because your blacks are deeper. More contrast == more “pop”. No matter how accurate colors are.
 

xykreilon

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I’m assuming that his screen is an IPS. I’ll bet the colors pop more on the CRT because your blacks are deeper. More contrast == more “pop”. No matter how accurate colors are.
Ah ok- I have tuned it for zero-level blacks. Yeah, his was an IPS. I wasn't all that impressed, really. I commented on how low its frame latency was, but I didn't talk about how blurry things still were. LCD pixels just can't keep up with 240Hz where it matters for little details. But alas, I was more focused on having fun with LAN than talking about displays. :)
 

spacediver

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Not sure what you're talking about in regards to the G2. I don't think there's a separate G2 for any of the guns. That's the grid 2 voltage for the tube. Are you thinking of something else? (It *has* been awhile since I've done any WinDAS WPB's :D ).
Yea, I think it may be G1 voltage (which I think exists for each gun, based on service manual).

What I was referring to was right after step 39. From the guide:

The next step is very similar to the previous step, except that it adjust the blanking level of the green gun for the central brightness value (future edition of this guide may describe the logic behind this step). Repeat the same procedure as that described in the G2 adjustment, and click OK. It will ask you to load up a black pattern, and as you already have this pattern loaded, just click OK.
 
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UnrealCpu

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Yea, I think it may be G1 voltage (which I think exists for each gun, based on service manual).

What I was referring to was right after step 39. From the guide:
That would be awesome if you can figure it out. I thought when I bought this monitor back in 2004 , its a refurb G520k SGI , paid i think 400.00 , anyway upon bootup it was not as bad, or it looked grayish on warmup. I maybe wrong though . I really have not used it since 2007 and has been sitting in my basement for that many years. It survived one move so I do not think it is damaged. although capacitance with the capacitors has me concerned now . The monitor looks fine after 20-30 min though,
 

Strat_84

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I see, ok.
What does it mean if the vertical collapse happens only every so often, yet seemingly more often with higher horizontal scan rates, vs. being constantly vertically collapsed as long as the CRT is on- like in most of the examples I found on the net?
Is it possible to repair this issue if it's how you describe it and not just a bad solder joint?
If the problem is intermittent there's a chance it's just a bad solder indeed. But there's no warranty at all this is the case, it can also be the IC dying (which, sometimes, can also be fixed by the resoldering heat). The problem might also not be located direcly on the IC, but on the power supply path to this IC (again, bad solder or bad component).

edit: About what to look for, I don't know this model so this is only a guess but there probably aren't many vertical deflection IC models. It must be a 7 pin (?) integrated circuit, through hole, mounted on some sort of heatsink. Maybe a Sanyo LA78xx.
 
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XoR_

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Ah ok- I have tuned it for zero-level blacks. Yeah, his was an IPS. I wasn't all that impressed, really. I commented on how low its frame latency was, but I didn't talk about how blurry things still were. LCD pixels just can't keep up with 240Hz where it matters for little details. But alas, I was more focused on having fun with LAN than talking about displays. :)
With your setting is black really zero-level when you display OSD?
I can get >40K:1 contrast ratio in ideal "benchmark" conditions easily but even at this setting which has brightness way too low I do simple things like: add pretty dim border around measurement area and open OSD menu then my contrast ratio drops to 2444:1.

On real life images, even those which are not super bright there is pretty much no difference in how black bars look like at "zero-level black" setting and the one I use (it gives around 2400:1 contrast ratio) and the only difference is that this zero-black level gives wrong gamma and black crush.

So what is the point of "zero-level blacks" again?
 

jbltecnicspro

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Ah ok- I have tuned it for zero-level blacks. Yeah, his was an IPS. I wasn't all that impressed, really. I commented on how low its frame latency was, but I didn't talk about how blurry things still were. LCD pixels just can't keep up with 240Hz where it matters for little details. But alas, I was more focused on having fun with LAN than talking about displays. :)

Even if you don’t have it tuned for zero blacks it still has probably 3x the contrast. My Viewsonic is set up for a 2.3 gamma and it’s contrast is about 3400:1. Bumping it up to 2.2 gamma lowers the contrast of course. 3400:1 brings it into VA monitor territory, with exceptional motion clarity of course.
 

jt55

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Welp, she's here.

I got my IIyama Vision Master Pro 454 yesterday, the box was beat to shit, but luckily the only flaw is a small crack on the top front of the case.
I've had some issues with certain resolutions, and at higher resolutions it feels a bit.. blurry? not sure, will see what I can do to adjust it.

On another note, the 454 is has unlocked vertical refresh rate. Haven't tested below 240p, but like the Nokia445Pro, at 240p it can hit some... quite high numbers. Unfortunately it seems like these refresh rates simply do not load on blurbuster's site properly, so can't get any in action shots or the stability. cool regardless. seems the 514 is also uncapped, and it has even higher horizontal scan so you should be able to hit higher refresh rates per res.

View attachment 292093
Really cool, did you test it out in game?
 

xykreilon

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With your setting is black really zero-level when you display OSD?
I can get >40K:1 contrast ratio in ideal "benchmark" conditions easily but even at this setting which has brightness way too low I do simple things like: add pretty dim border around measurement area and open OSD menu then my contrast ratio drops to 2444:1.

On real life images, even those which are not super bright there is pretty much no difference in how black bars look like at "zero-level black" setting and the one I use (it gives around 2400:1 contrast ratio) and the only difference is that this zero-black level gives wrong gamma and black crush.

So what is the point of "zero-level blacks" again?
The point of zero-level blacks is for the cases where there is indeed enough black space for light-bleed to not drown it out as much. Sure, not all that common, but very noticeable in the instances where it is the case.
My blacks really are still mostly zero level when I display the OSD. Of course, the closer to the OSD you get, the grayer blacks get. But, I have a small 2-3 inches of distance from the OSD before it's all that visually noticeable, and 4 before it's measurable by my colorimeter.

Night time is real life, and I definitely notice a difference in most dark-setting shots. I couldn't on my Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751, since it couldn't get zero-level blacks. But, I definitely can on my ViewSonic G90f.

Also, and this is probably a "well no shit" thing to point out around here; but, I want to do it just to make sure- you have to have the room totally dark for it to make a difference measurable by a colorimeter, since CRTs have very poor ambient light rejection.
 

xykreilon

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Even if you don’t have it tuned for zero blacks it still has probably 3x the contrast. My Viewsonic is set up for a 2.3 gamma and it’s contrast is about 3400:1. Bumping it up to 2.2 gamma lowers the contrast of course. 3400:1 brings it into VA monitor territory, with exceptional motion clarity of course.
True. ANSI contrast would definitely not be that good. But, not all images look like an ANSI checkerboard, so the huge potential contrast of 3400:1 can really help.
 

XoR_

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Even if you don’t have it tuned for zero blacks it still has probably 3x the contrast. My Viewsonic is set up for a 2.3 gamma and it’s contrast is about 3400:1. Bumping it up to 2.2 gamma lowers the contrast of course. 3400:1 brings it into VA monitor territory, with exceptional motion clarity of course.
3400:1 sounds like very reasonable setting. At what maximum luminance is that?
 

XoR_

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90 or so nits? I’d have to check. Contrast (white level) isn’t maxed out. Close though.
I have almost 100cd/m2 at contrast 77
Realistically I can go to about 120cd/m2. More than that and brightest RGB components will start to smear out. Maybe something like 130cd/m2 for games is ok but I do not think it is healthy for the tube and actually ~100cd/m2 is okay. Also for eyes. CRT is after all crazy bright dot going from left to right and from top to bottom and not solid image...

This with polarizer. Without any AG this hella heavy monitor could run at eye soaring ~300cd/m2 near its maximum contrast.

What AG you are using now?
 

jbltecnicspro

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I have almost 100cd/m2 at contrast 77
Realistically I can go to about 120cd/m2. More than that and brightest RGB components will start to smear out. Maybe something like 130cd/m2 for games is ok but I do not think it is healthy for the tube and actually ~100cd/m2 is okay. Also for eyes. CRT is after all crazy bright dot going from left to right and from top to bottom and not solid image...

This with polarizer. Without any AG this hella heavy monitor could run at eye soaring ~300cd/m2 near its maximum contrast.

What AG you are using now?

I’m using whatever came with the monitor. It’s not glued on like the FW-900. For what it’s worth after WPB with WinDAS the 6500k preset maxes out at 105 nits. I suspect that you’re seeing smearing because you’re indeed driving the components too hard at that intensity. :)
 
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jbltecnicspro

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Okay, I finally measured it. Black level is 0.02 nits. White level is 76.5 nits. So not very bright. Average Delta E of 1.54. Gamma locked at 2.3. Contrast is 3829:1. Taking it up to 2.24 gamma brings me to 2600:1 contrast. It's been a couple of years since I calibrated so I may crack it open again and tweak some things. Otherwise I'm happy with the monitor. It's in a light-controlled environment so 76 nits is enough.
 

Flybye

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This made me giggle:

“GtG response times of under 5ms are OK for gaming, though you really want to be at 1ms. Clearly, a zero isn’t possible with current technology so don’t expect that. Or believe anyone that claims it.”


https://www.benq.com/en-ap/knowledg...ats-the-difference-and-why-should-i-care.html


The technology IS here. It’s called a CRT. 😬 ok ok maybe not zero, but a response time of the speed of light can be close enough. 😊
 

jbltecnicspro

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So I’m reading the service manual for the Viewsonic. It has an “ultra bright” mode. Get this. Target luminance for ultra bright 9300 is 83 FOOT LAMBERTS! What the fuck... That’s 284 nits. Why on earth would anyone run a tube that high?

Edit. I think I get it now. They have you torture the tube a little to adjust the white balance and then dial down the ABL at the end. Interesting approach. Clearly this is to be done at the factory.
 

xykreilon

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This made me giggle:

“GtG response times of under 5ms are OK for gaming, though you really want to be at 1ms. Clearly, a zero isn’t possible with current technology so don’t expect that. Or believe anyone that claims it.”


https://www.benq.com/en-ap/knowledg...ats-the-difference-and-why-should-i-care.html


The technology IS here. It’s called a CRT. 😬 ok ok maybe not zero, but a response time of the speed of light can be close enough. 😊
Hahahaa, me too. :smuggrin: That reminds me, Ashun recently published a great video on LCD response times:
ifonlyresponsetimes.png
 
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brownvim

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While the 30 min warmup is normal and not calibration related, I'm not sure about the green cast. There are two steps when setting G2 in the windas procedure - one of them involves the green gun. I'm calibrating my monitor within the next five weeks, and when I do, I'll do an experiment - changing the green G2 level to two wildly different values (while keeping everything constant), and seeing the impact this has (both on warmed up color, and pre-warm up color).

There's probably a parameter that controls this variable, and you could potentially implement it the same way you'd implement a normal G2 fix (i.e. using windas to load modified dat file). That way, you don't need to go through the whole colorimeter process.

I had this green issue when I was doing a windas calibration. It happened because I picked the wrong model number in the windas program.

I have the SGI branded GDM-FW9011, I was picking the GDM-FW900 and doing the calibration and it would always be green on startup. When you pick FW9011 it calibrates correctly and the issue goes away.
 

datspike

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Funny thing I've noticed with Startech DP2VGAHD20, if I disable the monitor using Win-P combo the adapter / AMD driver freaks out and the display starts to connect/disconnect in devices manager with like a 2 second interval causing mouse stutters.
Derupter Flybye have you ever noticed such an issue like that? I'm trying to find out if it's AMD specific or it's just the adapter.
 

Strat_84

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Funny thing I've noticed with Startech DP2VGAHD20, if I disable the monitor using Win-P combo the adapter / AMD driver freaks out and the display starts to connect/disconnect in devices manager with like a 2 second interval causing mouse stutters.
Derupter Flybye have you ever noticed such an issue like that? I'm trying to find out if it's AMD specific or it's just the adapter.
Well, I noticed windows making that sound like when a new device is connected "plum plum" continuously when my screen was in standby mode or shut down but the computer still running with that adapter. I didn't dig much further since I couldn't really point out what that was, it stopped when I turned the monitor on to check.
But it could well be the same thing you're describing. R9 380 / radeon 18.12.3 / windows 7 here.
 

pixeltrawn

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Funny thing I've noticed with Startech DP2VGAHD20, if I disable the monitor using Win-P combo the adapter / AMD driver freaks out and the display starts to connect/disconnect in devices manager with like a 2 second interval causing mouse stutters.
Derupter Flybye have you ever noticed such an issue like that? I'm trying to find out if it's AMD specific or it's just the adapter.

Mines doing this without doing anything-

I JUST (15 minutes ago) ordered another adapter - DP/vga- (to a rx580.) I thought for sure the adapter was causing it as it as been working fine for the last couple of months I've had the video card (newly purchased.)

The mouse trips out as well (it's been fine since using secondary monitor) The video come and goes. Now, it won't really boot up with the monitor so I've been using my secondary HDMI LCD monitor as primary.

Windows 10. RX580 purchased fairly new in the last 3 months. x370/1700x. I haven't updated to the latest drivers (still on 20.5.1)
 
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xykreilon

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I know high horizontal scan rates are hard on CRTs in general. But, can they cause or lead to vertical collapse?
 

melibond

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Maybe https://3dlens.com/linear-polarizer-film-620x1000mm.php ?
It is not so much recommendation as it is "only one I could find". I got mine from some local auction few years ago.

Some people investigated other solution but apparently it is hard to find anything good as most darkening sheets are not quite the quality required for this sort application and do not remove reflections.
Anyone found anything interresting?
I see what you mean. I'll keep the link you gave me, although, it is quite expensive... I'll be searching on my own as well, and see what I can find. And if I don't find anything, I'll consider it. Thanks for taking your time to do some research for me, I appreciate that <3
 
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Anyone here know why my FW900 won't turn on? I don't hear the auto degauss and doesn't even post to the OSD. When I hit the power button the light just stays solid orange/red, no blinking, no green to orange, just solid orange like it's in standby or something.
It was working fine a few weeks ago, but I disconnected since I planned to move it into a different room. Connected it and tried to power it on today, but nothing.
The monitor is recognized in Windows 10 and allows me to modify it's settings despite not being able to see an image.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Anyone here know why my FW900 won't turn on? I don't hear the auto degauss and doesn't even post to the OSD. When I hit the power button the light just stays solid orange/red, no blinking, no green to orange, just solid orange like it's in standby or something.
It was working fine a few weeks ago, but I disconnected since I planned to move it into a different room. Connected it and tried to power it on today, but nothing.
The monitor is recognized in Windows 10 and allows me to modify it's settings despite not being able to see an image.

Disconnect the monitor and turn it on. It should power on and show you the OSD telling you that it's working and not connected.
 

LAGRUNAUER

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Anyone here know why my FW900 won't turn on? I don't hear the auto degauss and doesn't even post to the OSD. When I hit the power button the light just stays solid orange/red, no blinking, no green to orange, just solid orange like it's in standby or something.
It was working fine a few weeks ago, but I disconnected since I planned to move it into a different room. Connected it and tried to power it on today, but nothing.
The monitor is recognized in Windows 10 and allows me to modify it's settings despite not being able to see an image.

That issue can be due to many part(s) malfunctioning... If you are in local CA, or are willing to ship to unit to us, we can run extensive tests on the unit and determine which part(s) are faulty...

UV!
 

xykreilon

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What does that mean for us CRT owners?
There are some especially good (high DAC pixel clock) DP to VGA dongles that are USB C instead of full displayport. There are full displayport options that are just as competent. But, there are less of them, and they seem to be out of stock more often than the good USB C options.
 

xykreilon

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Well, my G90f's vertical collapse is pretty much permanent now.
Hopefully, I can find a repairman to sort it out if I can't myself. It was an awesome experience while it lasted. After mainly using a CRT for months, everything feels so laggy and blurry on my LCDs...
I don't think I'll be able to enjoy many games for awhile. It's just not the same.
 

jbltecnicspro

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Well, my G90f's vertical collapse is pretty much permanent now.
Hopefully, I can find a repairman to sort it out if I can't myself. It was an awesome experience while it lasted. After mainly using a CRT for months, everything feels so laggy and blurry on my LCDs...
I don't think I'll be able to enjoy many games for awhile. It's just not the same.

Hunt down the parts and replace it yourself? That's pretty much all you can hope for in this day and age, with CRT's.
 

jei

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Pardon my ignorance but what is a vertical collapse and how is it caused? Thanks.
 

Strat_84

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The screen displays only an horizontal bright line. It's caused by a failure in the vertical deflection circuitry.
 
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