24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

jehab

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Report: 1920x1440i @ 90 Hz is working on my Windows 10 machine with the HD 7770 through the Startech MDP2VGA.
 
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Anyone else get their screen flickering blue when they're playing Warzone? Anyone have any ideas on how to mitigate it?
 

xykreilon

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How hard is it on a CRT to run it at a high horizontal refresh rate?
I've heard that running them at high horizontal scan rates significantly decreases their life, but by about how much and/or why? I'm just looking for a more detailed answer, I suppose.
The specified limit of my ViewSonic G90f is 97KHz, but I can push it to 98, and it doesn't cause any visible artifacts over long use times. Should I avoid pushing it to preserve its life, or is it overall no big deal?
Thanks
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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I did some tests with interlaced resolutions:
-AMD 7950 with Delock 62967, it works with CRU and AMD custom resolution panel with both Windows 10 and 7

Report: 1920x1440i @ 90 Hz is working on my Windows 10 machine with the HD 7770 through the Startech MDP2VGA.

So did both of you guys go into "advanced display settings" and check "active signal resolution" just make sure it's not being scaled to some other, progressive resolution?

How hard is it on a CRT to run it at a high horizontal refresh rate?
I've heard that running them at high horizontal scan rates significantly decreases their life, but by about how much and/or why?
I've played a lot of games on my LaCie near it's max frequency for many years now. Resolutions like 1920x1440@90hz, 2880x2160@60hz, and 1024x768@160hz. But that's not 24/7 by any means, I usually keep the desktop at the recommended 1600x1200 @ 85hz.
 

xykreilon

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I've played a lot of games on my LaCie near it's max frequency for many years now. Resolutions like 1920x1440@90hz, 2880x2160@60hz, and 1024x768@160hz. But that's not 24/7 by any means, I usually keep the desktop at the recommended 1600x1200 @ 85hz.
Alright, that's decently reassuring. I'll probably not bother pushing mine to 98kHz. But, boy, for the specs from one of the settings I wanna use, the jump from 97 to 98kHz is so tempting on paper- even if the visual difference is highly negligible in practice :hungry:
I'd still like to figure out more precisely why high horizontal scans are an issue. If I remember right, it's hard on the yolks, but I'm interested in knowing a more detailed reason.
 

Derupter

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So did both of you guys go into "advanced display settings" and check "active signal resolution" just make sure it's not being scaled to some other, progressive resolution?
I tried with 1920x1200i 160 Hz GTF using the AMD utility, the resolution is accepted and applied.
I clearly see that the resolution is indeed interlaced and the FW900 menu shows 105.5kHz / 160Hz.
Last time i did a quick test, just to see if it worked and saw that something was wrong with the image, now i did a better test with both native DAC and adapter.
With native DAC the image is right and stable while with the adapter something is wrong, the desktop icons are very bad and the image is not stable, there is a left-right movement everywhere and it's like something is rendered poorly.
I tried with lower resolutions and different refresh rates, same result.
The monitor connected to the native DAC is not the FW900, it's a Samsung shadow mask, but i don't think that the problem has to do with it, maybe later i will test with the FW900 on native DAC just to be sure.
So with my AMD 7950 the interlaced resolutions are accepted with a displayport output but the result is bad, now I have to figure out if the problem is with the adapter's chipset or the video driver.
I think that something is broken at driver level, so instead of fixing it, they just decided to remove the thing with the new video cards.
I also did a quick test with the GTX 1070 connected to an Oled TV via HDMI and this time the interlaced resolutions are accepted by the Nvidia control panel, i have to see if the image is correct and if it works with CRU.
 
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Derupter

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I tested the native DAC with the FW900 and the interlaced resolutions are right, i also tested the adapter with the Samsung CRT and like other tests the image is bad, the output timings are correct but something strange happens during the digital to analog conversion, it's like the chipset can't handle it.
Is there anyone with an old AMD card that can test the DP2VGAHD20 or the DPU3000 with interlaced resolutions?
Has anyone ever tested interlaced resolutions with the DPU3000?
 

3dfan

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Has anyone ever tested interlaced resolutions with the DPU3000?
i tested dpu3000 with nvidia gtx 1080 ti with no luck, was not able to use anything interlaced created from nvidia control panel, with any timing standard, it just showed a message telling "selected mode is not supported" without even let me test if it would actually work, also creating anything interlaced from custom resolution utility was ignored, and not displayed in any resolution/refresh list from windows or nvidia control panel, i tested on windows 10 64bit 1909 version with 456.55 driver version, also tested in windows 7 64bit and older driver version 378.78 (first 1080 ti launch driver) to see if with older os and older driver would help but same results as in windows 10.
 

Derupter

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Thanks for testing, like my previous test with a gtx 1070, CRU is ignored and it's not supported with the Nvidia control panel, it works only with old AMD cards (bad with my adapter) or maybe with Nvidia 970-980.
This is from an old changelog with Linux drivers:

Disabled interlaced modes over DisplayPort by default due to incomplete support in the GPU. Added "AllowDpInterlaced" mode validation token to override this default behavior and allow interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol anyway.

"AllowDpInterlaced":
When driving interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol, NVIDIA GPUs do not provide all the spec-mandated metadata. Some DisplayPort monitors are tolerant of this missing metadata. But, in the interest of DisplayPort specification compliance, the NVIDIA driver prohibits interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol by default. Use this mode validation token to allow interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol anyway.

Maybe that missing metadata is required also by the displayport receivers of the adapters.
If the same is true for the AMD cards, it would explain why it works bad in my test with the 7950.
 
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Enhanced Interrogator

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Has anyone ever tested interlaced resolutions with the DPU3000?
Someone in this thread tested the Sunix in LInux and got interlaced resolutions working. Can't remember what card they were using, this was a few years back. Having trouble finding the post through Google.

"AllowDpInterlaced":
When driving interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol, NVIDIA GPUs do not provide all the spec-mandated metadata. Some DisplayPort monitors are tolerant of this missing metadata. But, in the interest of DisplayPort specification compliance, the NVIDIA driver prohibits interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol by default. Use this mode validation token to allow interlaced modes over DisplayPort protocol anyway.
So if I understand this correctly, some DP converters might be able to display interlaced correctly if it was enabled.

But really, we have bigger problems with interlacing support. It used to be supported over HDMI on both Nvidia and AMD cards. But I haven't been able to get even 1080i working on my Radeon 5700xt, and I've seen a thread on Nvidia forums saying their 2000 series RTX cards weren't outputting 1080i.

And then theres the issue where it's (almost?) impossible to directly switch to interlaced resolutions on Nvidia cards that do support interlaced. Like I have a GT 730 in a secondary slot in my PC, and over VGA, the only way I can get interlaced resolutions to actually display is to switch to it from the Nvidia custom resolution tool in the control panel. Like if I pick the interlaced resolution inside windows, it will just stay in the last progressive resolution I was running.

So right now, we're on track to lose interlaced entirely as the older cards enter legacy status. Like, it might still be an option in the custom resolution tools, but you would always get "not supported by display" whenever you try to use it.
 
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Azurfel

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So i have three FW-900s, all of which are currently having issues.

#1 displays no image and does not degauss when turned on. Checking with Windas, it gives ABL errors, which, as i understand it, generally means a bad flyback in this context.

#2 displays solid colors with retrace lines when turned on (generally green, sometimes orange, occasionally violet). On rare occasion, it will just turn on normally and stay that way until shut off, at which point it goes back to the solid colors. Windas gives ABL and HV OVP errors. This issue seems rarer than #1's, but reading around, i suspect that the power supply may be the issue?

#3 turns on without issue 100% of the time if started cold, but often loses focus within 1-40 min, at which point it must be left off for 30-40 min before trying again. If it doesn't lose focus after and hour or so, it is usually fine for the rest of the day. Humidity and environmental temperature *might* be a factor, but that may also be pattern seeking on my part, since the problem first started as the season changed. Windas gives no errors.

My instinct is that i should check #3 for bad caps, and see what #1 does with #2's flyback, but it seemed prudent to ask for advice here first.
 

Strat_84

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So i have three FW-900s, all of which are currently having issues.

#1 displays no image and does not degauss when turned on. Checking with Windas, it gives ABL errors, which, as i understand it, generally means a bad flyback in this context.

#2 displays solid colors with retrace lines when turned on (generally green, sometimes orange, occasionally violet). On rare occasion, it will just turn on normally and stay that way until shut off, at which point it goes back to the solid colors. Windas gives ABL and HV OVP errors. This issue seems rarer than #1's, but reading around, i suspect that the power supply may be the issue?

#3 turns on without issue 100% of the time if started cold, but often loses focus within 1-40 min, at which point it must be left off for 30-40 min before trying again. If it doesn't lose focus after and hour or so, it is usually fine for the rest of the day. Humidity and environmental temperature *might* be a factor, but that may also be pattern seeking on my part, since the problem first started as the season changed. Windas gives no errors.

My instinct is that i should check #3 for bad caps, and see what #1 does with #2's flyback, but it seemed prudent to ask for advice here first.

My advice: let that to someone who knows what he does and have proper intruments to monitor the signals on the D board and find out what's wrong. FW900's do have pretty good electrolytic capacitors and while they do age, I do not think these could be old/bad enough to lead to drastic failures likes yours.
As for swapping parts randomly on a guess, it can only lead to more damage, chances it fixes anything are very low. Definitively not a good idea.
 

Derupter

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So if I understand this correctly, some DP converters might be able to display interlaced correctly if it was enabled.
Yes, if the DP receiver has no problems with that missing metadata.
But really, we have bigger problems with interlacing support. It used to be supported over HDMI on both Nvidia and AMD cards. But I haven't been able to get even 1080i working on my Radeon 5700xt, and I've seen a thread on Nvidia forums saying their 2000 series RTX cards weren't outputting 1080i.
I can understand the displayport, but removing something that is working properly is a very bad thing.
And then theres the issue where it's (almost?) impossible to directly switch to interlaced resolutions on Nvidia cards that do support interlaced. Like I have a GT 730 in a secondary slot in my PC, and over VGA, the only way I can get interlaced resolutions to actually display is to switch to it from the Nvidia custom resolution tool in the control panel. Like if I pick the interlaced resolution inside windows, it will just stay in the last progressive resolution I was running.
So if you load a game that resolution is not selectable?
So right now, we're on track to lose interlaced entirely as the older cards enter legacy status. Like, it might still be an option in the custom resolution tools, but you would always get "not supported by display" whenever you try to use it.
They should at least fix it with the HDMI output.

What happen with your card, CRU ignored and unsupported by AMD panel?
Or resolution selectable but not working?
 
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XoR_

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Does anyone really like interlaced resolutions?
They always look flickery and motion is not as good, everything get's artifacts
 

Derupter

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Does anyone really like interlaced resolutions?
They always look flickery and motion is not as good, everything get's artifacts
I've never used them before, but some users are interested so i do some tests to get as much information as possible.
Also i must admit that at high resolutions and with very high refresh like 1920x1200i 160 Hz and over, it's not that bad.
 
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Enhanced Interrogator

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So if you load a game that resolution is not selectable?
I've usually been able to get it to work by having my desktop at the interlaced resolution before launching the game. In the game's config file you can set the resolution before hand.

Or something to that effect. It gets real hacky real fast.

They should at least fix it with the HDMI output.
I've submitted bug reports to both in the past, but I probably don't do it often enough.

What happen with your card, CRU ignored and unsupported by AMD panel?
Or resolution selectable but not working?

The 5700xt seems to ignore CRU completely when using adapters. Both interlaced and progressive resolutions. Nothing sticks with my Sunix, and I remember having trouble getting custom resolutions on my HD Fury.

AMD's built in tool works for progressive resolutions. Up to 1920p anyway. To get 2160p I had to use an external EDID spoofer

We really need HD Fury to step and save us here. They still hope to release a high pixel clock DAC in 2021. But they could also help if they made some custom firmware for something like their Vertex processor to interlace progessive signals and stuff like that.
 

LAGRUNAUER

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So i have three FW-900s, all of which are currently having issues.

#1 displays no image and does not degauss when turned on. Checking with Windas, it gives ABL errors, which, as i understand it, generally means a bad flyback in this context.

#2 displays solid colors with retrace lines when turned on (generally green, sometimes orange, occasionally violet). On rare occasion, it will just turn on normally and stay that way until shut off, at which point it goes back to the solid colors. Windas gives ABL and HV OVP errors. This issue seems rarer than #1's, but reading around, i suspect that the power supply may be the issue?

#3 turns on without issue 100% of the time if started cold, but often loses focus within 1-40 min, at which point it must be left off for 30-40 min before trying again. If it doesn't lose focus after and hour or so, it is usually fine for the rest of the day. Humidity and environmental temperature *might* be a factor, but that may also be pattern seeking on my part, since the problem first started as the season changed. Windas gives no errors.

My instinct is that i should check #3 for bad caps, and see what #1 does with #2's flyback, but it seemed prudent to ask for advice here first.

We can fix all those issues... PM me for more details...

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

ellover009

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Hey unkle vito, good to see ya'll are still fighting the good fight.
Have you guys found a modern solution for the ramdac problem on modern video cards?
 

jt55

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I've kinda stopped gaming so the 4:3 aspect ratio and blurriness of my CRT are becoming a bit of a pain for general use/browsing,
I already have an XL2411 from before the CRT and this just looks atrocious in comparison with washed out colours and horrible contrast even after calibration , even TN's superior response times don't come remotely close to the CRT... Iwould rather stick with CRT than use this.
Would an IPS or VA be worth getting or will everything just look horrible in comparison now, aside from the sharpness?
 

LAGRUNAUER

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I've kinda stopped gaming so the 4:3 aspect ratio and blurriness of my CRT are becoming a bit of a pain for general use/browsing,
I already have an XL2411 from before the CRT and this just looks atrocious in comparison with washed out colours and horrible contrast even after calibration , even TN's superior response times don't come remotely close to the CRT... Iwould rather stick with CRT than use this.
Would an IPS or VA be worth getting or will everything just look horrible in comparison now, aside from the sharpness?
Unfortunately, nothing I can see in modern display technology beats the glass... Nothing as of yet...
 

jbltecnicspro

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Unfortunately, nothing I can see in modern display technology beats the glass... Nothing as of yet...

It's getting close... is what they always say. I think at this point modern technologies are close enough and better in some cases that people can now have choice, which is good. Heck, even four years ago there wasn't much of any choice outside of Plasma but then you still had issues inherent to plasma to deal with so it obviously wasn't better.
 

xykreilon

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I've kinda stopped gaming so the 4:3 aspect ratio and blurriness of my CRT are becoming a bit of a pain for general use/browsing,
I already have an XL2411 from before the CRT and this just looks atrocious in comparison with washed out colours and horrible contrast even after calibration , even TN's superior response times don't come remotely close to the CRT... Iwould rather stick with CRT than use this.
Would an IPS or VA be worth getting or will everything just look horrible in comparison now, aside from the sharpness?
Maybe try looking for a sharper CRT :smuggrin:
My ViewSonic G90f, with .21mm dot pitch, is comparable with lots of modern stuff its size. 1728x1296@18" is pretty resolving, all things considered.
Also, on aspect ratio, that doesn't really matter unless you really hate letterboxing for some reason. You can tell your CRT to do whatever aspect-ratio/resolution/refresh-rate you want with CRU on Windows and xrandr on Linux. A bonus is that less vertical pixels allow for much much higher vertical refresh rates. I can do 1280x960@95Hz, but I can do 1280x720@125Hz.

Though, on modern displays, I'd wait. Don't settle for an LCD. Premium OLED monitors from Asus and Eizo were released recently: https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/0ef41b9a https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/830518cd
These are the only normal-desk ready OLEDs I'm aware of. Everything else is 40"+, which is just way too big for most people.
 

LAGRUNAUER

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It's getting close... is what they always say. I think at this point modern technologies are close enough and better in some cases that people can now have choice, which is good. Heck, even four years ago there wasn't much of any choice outside of Plasma but then you still had issues inherent to plasma to deal with so it obviously wasn't better.
Like I always said it... and keep on saying it... "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..."

Take care and keep safe!

UV!
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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These are the only normal-desk ready OLEDs I'm aware of. Everything else is 40"+, which is just way too big for most people.
But most people are not very smart because all you really have to do is mount a 48" TV to your wall and move your desk back a foot to get a comfortable viewing angle.
 

xykreilon

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But most people are not very smart because all you really have to do is mount a 48" TV to your wall and move your desk back a foot to get a comfortable viewing angle.
Most people don't have space for that, from what I've seen. While you're probably right that most don't think of it, I think part of why it doesn't even come to mind is that their desk isn't in a full, dedicated space. Even in big houses, I often see computer desks in cramped spaces.
But even when they do have space, often the backdrop isn't flat or something you could easily put a TV in front of.
But, that's all just anecdote. Would be neat to see statistics on the average size/layout of someone's study or what have you.
 

UnrealCpu

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Does anyone or can anyone lead me in the right direction to hook up to the RS232 port on a G520?
I know i have to take off the monitor case to access the back however there is two things i am confused about.

1. I have a old RS232 usb ttl board i bought on here over a decade ago and have not used it. I am sure it works
2. on the back of the board it has 5v, gnd, rxd, txd, rst, and 3.3v , i am going to use some andrino cables to interface to the rs232 on the monitor
3. Does anyone have a photo of the rs232 port on a G520 sony , its a SGI monitor that tells me which cables to plug into where?
4. Does anyone have Windas for windows xp? or can i used windows 98se?
5. Where can I download windas?


My monitor takes about 45 min to warm up , upon doing image restoration it will look great but for the first 45 min the monitor has grayed out /greensh hue for blacks.
I have no horizontal lines or color issues.

I understand i need to save the .dat first and then change the white balance to around 130 , will this change my monitor color?

Monitor worked great minor use when i bought it in 2004 , it was then turned off for several years in storage and i think the move caused something to happen? Not sure if the factory dat is corrupt or what.
I can solder but not sure if this will fix my issue with some sort of adjustment or new resistor . I do not think you can adjust this monitor inside.


What do you guys think? Help me out and will post pics!
Thanks
 

Strat_84

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In short:
The resistor mod is garbage.
The G2 value manual modification is ALSO garbage.
What you need to do is to perform a white point balance procedure in Windas, using a colorimeter. The pinout of the RS232 plug on the monitor is shown in the service manual (it must be written on the board as well). Rxd and Txd must be reverted compared to the computer side of the cable.
Windas download: see my previous post https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-438#post-1044677484
 

UnrealCpu

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In short:
The resistor mod is garbage.
The G2 value manual modification is ALSO garbage.
What you need to do is to perform a white point balance procedure in Windas, using a colorimeter. The pinout of the RS232 plug on the monitor is shown in the service manual (it must be written on the board as well). Rxd and Txd must be reverted compared to the computer side of the cable.
Windas download: see my previous post https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-438#post-1044677484
thanks which os do i use to use the color meter abd windas?

and what software or guide do i use to make changes using the color meter?


it does not seem my colors are off now though
 
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Does anyone ever have their crt monitor randomly dim out when you're playing a game? I dont know if it's the adapter disconnecting or crt monitor just randomly degaussing itself but I'd like to know
 

xykreilon

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Does anyone ever have their crt monitor randomly dim out when you're playing a game? I dont know if it's the adapter disconnecting or crt monitor just randomly degaussing itself but I'd like to know
Speaking briefly, the top half of my CRT monitor's screen will randomly go black if the horizontal refresh rate is too high. In my case, .5kHz or more above its written limit causes it. Its written limit is 97kHz, so if I have it at 97.5kHz or higher, the artifact will occur. The higher the horizontal refresh rate is over the written limit, the more often it happens (won't test further, as I accidentally discovered the artifacts before I learned high horizontal refreshes can damage the yolks).

Not sure if you're running at high horizontal refreshes, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
 
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Speaking briefly, the top half of my CRT monitor's screen will randomly go black if the horizontal refresh rate is too high. In my case, .5kHz or more above its written limit causes it. Its written limit is 97kHz, so if I have it at 97.5kHz or higher, the artifact will occur. The higher the horizontal refresh rate is over the written limit, the more often it happens (won't test further, as I accidentally discovered the artifacts before I learned high horizontal refreshes can damage the yolks).

Not sure if you're running at high horizontal refreshes, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Interesting, well I have a G225F and I haven't been trying to take my CRT to its limits. It happened when I was playing at 1200x900 90hz; this has been the first time in a while it's done this. But I do get worried about it.
 

xykreilon

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Interesting, well I have a G225F and I haven't been trying to take my CRT to its limits. It happened when I was playing at 1200x900 90hz; this has been the first time in a while it's done this. But I do get worried about it.
1200x900 90Hz is definitely not pushing that beast! I'd want to be careful with it too. To me, it's the most attractive CRT on paper. 21 inch screen, .2mm dot pitch flat shadowmask, and 130 kHz horizontal rr all add up to quite the package.
Have you tried gently jiggling the connection cables around, trying to see if something is up with either the VGA cable or adapter? I remember it once taking awhile for me to figure out that my previous HDMI to VGA adapter would randomly go dark like you described. Took some trial and error.
 

jei

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Welp, she's here.

I got my IIyama Vision Master Pro 454 yesterday, the box was beat to shit, but luckily the only flaw is a small crack on the top front of the case.
I've had some issues with certain resolutions, and at higher resolutions it feels a bit.. blurry? not sure, will see what I can do to adjust it.

On another note, the 454 is has unlocked vertical refresh rate. Haven't tested below 240p, but like the Nokia445Pro, at 240p it can hit some... quite high numbers. Unfortunately it seems like these refresh rates simply do not load on blurbuster's site properly, so can't get any in action shots or the stability. cool regardless. seems the 514 is also uncapped, and it has even higher horizontal scan so you should be able to hit higher refresh rates per res.

1603506512336.png
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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HAHAHAHA, wow! Time to boot up one of those cartoony shooters where resolution doesn't matter as much. Like Overwatch or Diabotical. Or you could do 480i @ 420hz too.

You're a lucky dude, I think unlocked vertical refresh monitors are pretty rare.
 

xykreilon

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Welp, she's here.

I got my IIyama Vision Master Pro 454 yesterday, the box was beat to shit, but luckily the only flaw is a small crack on the top front of the case.
I've had some issues with certain resolutions, and at higher resolutions it feels a bit.. blurry? not sure, will see what I can do to adjust it.

On another note, the 454 is has unlocked vertical refresh rate. Haven't tested below 240p, but like the Nokia445Pro, at 240p it can hit some... quite high numbers. Unfortunately it seems like these refresh rates simply do not load on blurbuster's site properly, so can't get any in action shots or the stability. cool regardless. seems the 514 is also uncapped, and it has even higher horizontal scan so you should be able to hit higher refresh rates per res.

View attachment 292093
Awesome!!!
 

LAGRUNAUER

Gawd
Joined
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Messages
732
In short:
The resistor mod is garbage.
The G2 value manual modification is ALSO garbage.
What you need to do is to perform a white point balance procedure in Windas, using a colorimeter. The pinout of the RS232 plug on the monitor is shown in the service manual (it must be written on the board as well). Rxd and Txd must be reverted compared to the computer side of the cable.
Windas download: see my previous post https://hardforum.com/threads/24-wi...ived-comments.952788/page-438#post-1044677484
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!
 
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