24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

3dfan

Limp Gawd
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Looks as if this is somewhat on topic: I have a fw900 im running directly DVI-I -> BNC via a gtx 970. I also have a 1080 and will be upgrading again soon to RTX, but currently the 1080 sits in closet as it didnt output to my fw900.

my question is if getting an adapter is worth using coupled w a more powerful modern gpu, or if I should look for a 980ti for my fw900 as its the last nvidia that supported dvi-i analog. I get around 120-150 fps stable running at 160hz, but sacrifice a lot of gfx options to do so.

Are there adapters which support analog refresh rates up to 160hz and if so, do they introduce input lag? Thanks!

i tested 160hz with sunix dpu3000 adapter hooked to gtx 1080 ti and fw900 and seems to work, didnt persive input lag or image degradation, but it was a quick test, i dont know in the long run how it will behave.
is 160hz an absolute must for you?
 

Flybye

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319
Looks as if this is somewhat on topic: I have a fw900 im running directly DVI-I -> BNC via a gtx 970. I also have a 1080 and will be upgrading again soon to RTX, but currently the 1080 sits in closet as it didnt output to my fw900.

my question is if getting an adapter is worth using coupled w a more powerful modern gpu, or if I should look for a 980ti for my fw900 as its the last nvidia that supported dvi-i analog. I get around 120-150 fps stable running at 160hz, but sacrifice a lot of gfx options to do so.

Are there adapters which support analog refresh rates up to 160hz and if so, do they introduce input lag? Thanks!
I just recently upgraded about a month ago from my 980Ti to a 2070 Super also using BNCs. The adapters I have had luck with so far are the Delock 87685 and the StarTech DP2VGAHD20. Some testing I did here.
The ones I tested start doing strange things above a 375Mhz pixel clock. I don't notice any of the typical LCD input lag, and I have tested on games such as Rage 2, Death Stranding, Generation Zero, and a few others. I've tested several LCD monitors and TVs in the past to really get a feel of what input lag was and how disgusting it is. What resolution are you running at 160Hz? Dang I didn't they could go up that high.
 

Boohyaka

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Guys, am I being stupid? In the WPB guide spacediver says "Load up HCFR on your main PC, and switch the colorimeter cable from the laptop to PC. This time, in HCFR, choose "view images" from the "select a generator" pulldown menu. Make sure the reference is D65.". I don't have a view images option in select a generator, only "automatic" or "DVD manual"...
 
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Strat_84

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Guys, am I being stupid? In the WPB guide spacediver says "Load up HCFR on your main PC, and switch the colorimeter cable from the laptop to PC. This time, in HCFR, choose "view images" from the "select a generator" pulldown menu. Make sure the reference is D65.". I don't have a view images option in select a generator, only "automatic" or "DVD manual"...
I'm not too sure what it means either. Just select "DVD manual" and then your probe, that's how you're starting a measurement.

Oh, and then make sure to press the big green arrow button for the probe to take actual measurements. :D


edit: Ok, I get it. This is the part where you use HCFR to check the actual calibration of the screen AFTER performing a white point balance procedure. I've never done this and I don't understand the instructions either. :oops:
 
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l88bastard

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lol....what the hell is wrong with me....I got a 48cx on my desk, an out of tune over the hill FW900 in my closet......and I keep trolling Craigslist and Ebay looking for CRT's....hahaha I thought I got this out of my system way back in the Titan Maxwell days lol

I wish I could get my fw900 overhauled back to greatness :-/
 
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jbltecnicspro

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lol....what the hell is wrong with me....I got a 48cx on my desk, an out of tune over the hill FW900 in my closet......and I keep trolling Craigslist and Ebay looking for CRT's....hahaha I thought I got this out of my system way back in the Titan Maxwell days lol

I wish I could get my fw900 overhauled back to greatness :-/

I’ll take your FW-900 and overhaul it back to greatness... (and not give it back!). :)
 

Boohyaka

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edit: Ok, I get it. This is the part where you use HCFR to check the actual calibration of the screen AFTER performing a white point balance procedure. I've never done this and I don't understand the instructions either. :oops:

yup, and I'm concerned my settings weren't actually properly saved after doing an almost perfect WPB session with close to perfect values and overall all across <0.3dE....bleh
At least I know the drill, I'll try again tomorrow, but would've been helpful to understand how to double-check proper calibration. I didn't look at the gamma stuff yet, it all looks very dark, maybe that's the issue.
 

Strat_84

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yup, and I'm concerned my settings weren't actually properly saved after doing an almost perfect WPB session with close to perfect values and overall all across <0.3dE....bleh
At least I know the drill, I'll try again tomorrow, but would've been helpful to understand how to double-check proper calibration. I didn't look at the gamma stuff yet, it all looks very dark, maybe that's the issue.
As long as you didn't forget to apply the "final setting" step in the procedure list after completing the white point balance, don't worry the settings are saved. If you had a G2 issue previously the difference should be easily noticeable, no need to run a test for this.

Otherwise there's another way to check the settings were applied: save the memory of the monitor to a file (File -> Save Data to File), then use the help -> expert function to open it and look for the G2 value, if this is the one you set during the WPB everything is alright. ;)
 

datspike

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Strat_84 disabling the drift correction fixed the issue!
It still needs a WBP, but making that little jumper wire made the blacks go from bright green to deep black in no time :)
Th3_uN1Qu3 post about the issue on badcaps
Recent momaka post about the issue on badcaps
IMG_20200807_022401.jpgIMG_20200807_024552.jpgIMG_20200807_021556.jpg
 

jbltecnicspro

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Strat_84 disabling the drift correction fixed the issue!
It still needs a WBP, but making that little jumper wire made the blacks go from bright green to deep black in no time :)
Th3_uN1Qu3 post about the issue on badcaps
Recent momaka post about the issue on badcaps

Awesome. I cannot believe the shit that some people do in the name of "improving" things. That looks pretty good.
 

l88bastard

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I’ll take your FW-900 and overhaul it back to greatness... (and not give it back!). :)

Not sure if srs

Its geometry was getting janky, black levels on the fritz, yaddah, yaddahh

Tempted to retrieve it, clean it up and play with it, then my back reminds me that my deadlifting days are way behind me! Besides its doing such a fine job holding up all that other closet crap!
fw900.jpg
 

Boohyaka

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As long as you didn't forget to apply the "final setting" step in the procedure list after completing the white point balance, don't worry the settings are saved. If you had a G2 issue previously the difference should be easily noticeable, no need to run a test for this.

Otherwise there's another way to check the settings were applied: save the memory of the monitor to a file (File -> Save Data to File), then use the help -> expert function to open it and look for the G2 value, if this is the one you set during the WPB everything is alright. ;)

i did the final setting procedure, yet it didn't save, dammit. i'll go through it again now and hope it sticks.
 

xykreilon

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Are there adapters which support analog refresh rates up to 160hz and if so, do they introduce input lag? Thanks!
Vertical refresh rates are almost irrelevant in terms of what adapters to look at, as vertical refresh rates don't directly correlate with bandwidth like horizontal refresh rates do.
Now, if we're talking horizontal refresh rate, this cheapo adapter I recently got off of Amazon supports the maximum of 93.8kHz horizontal refresh rate of my Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751. This means I can do 160Hz at 848x530 fine. For some annoying reason, specs aren't usually explicit with the bandwidth of adapters- I was crossing my fingers when getting it.
So, with your FW900, that adapter will at least allow you to do 530p 160Hz. If the adapter's bandwidth is higher than what my monitor is capable of, you could potentially get 160Hz at higher resolutions with your FW900.
For reference, according to my calculations with CVT, the max resolution the FW900 is capable of at 160Hz is 1104x690.
Code:
cvt 1104 690 160
# 1104x690 159.93 Hz (CVT) hsync: 121.55 kHz; pclk: 184.75 MHz
Not bad- I'm certainly jealous over here in 530p land :)
It's hard to make recommendations with annoyingly vague adapter speclists. But, I personally verify that that Tendak is good at least up to 93.8kHz horizontal refresh. That's infinitely better than my old adapter's limit of like 65kHz horizontal refresh, I'll tell you that much.
 

Boohyaka

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Allright, it's a success!

A few things I figured out that may help others:

1- After the first WPB, reaching almost perfect values, it did save the settings in spite of my initial feeling. The only step I wasn't able to properly do was the very last one (sRGB). It asks you to reach a Y=80 value with a "CONTRAST" slider, and with the slider to the max (255) I was only able to reach 72. I did the Final Setting step, and.....everything looked like shit, in spite of perfect values at every single step. Is it because of that last sRGB step? I was annoyed and couldn't understand what went wrong. So I reloaded my EEPROM backup I did before the WPB, and tried from scratch again...and I reached exactly the same shit result (including the sRGB step).
So this time I decided to keep those new settings and start a new WPB straightaway on top of it. Again, hitting all close to perfect values, reached the final sRGB step...and this time it was totally different! I could properly reach the Y=80 with the slider around 200. I did the Final Setting again, saved it, and... bingo! Everything looks damn perfect. I'm not sure if that makes sense to be honest. For me, the iterative nature of the process was to always try to get slightly closer to perfection, I didn't expect a first run to end up all off, then the next one perfect, it's pretty counter-intuitive to me. In any case, if it happens to you, just do another round or two on top of each other.

2- The "verification" step from spacediver's procedure on the main PC with HCFR, where he says "select View Images from the generator dropdown" is wrong (maybe HCFR changed since he wrote it?). This is how I did it:
- Open HCFR, go File->New
- "Select a generator from the list": pick Automatic and next, select your sensor in the list (i1DisplayPro in my case), "create a new meter correction file"
- In the main video, in the "View" section, "Gray Scale" should be selected already, if not, pick it up in the dropdown. Then press the "Go" button on the right-hand side, a popup will ask "Run gray scales on 11 values?" and press yes. Your screen will go fullscreen and 11 different shades of gray will automatically be displayed and measured by the sensor. When it's done, you'll be back at the main view, with the "deltaE" table colored and the RGB/gamma graph, pretty similar to spacediver's procedure. Hopefully, your deltaE will be green in the whole range :)

3- If you're doing the procedure on an older computer (I used XP on a Pentium3 myself), PowerStrip is extremely useful to view real-time screen timings and validate settings (gamma ramp, LUT, etc..)

4- Finally, I am attaching the templates I adapted for my 1600x1200 screen, including a i1DisplayPro centering template, if that's useful for someone.

Many thanks for the help and I will post the same message in the WPB topic :)
 

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Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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Strat_84 disabling the drift correction fixed the issue!
It still needs a WBP, but making that little jumper wire made the blacks go from bright green to deep black in no time :)
Well, you may have the felling you fixed something but you didn't. :p
The drift correction circuit makes the screen brighter when it is cold, and then the colors stabilize when it is hot. That system is also notorious for lowering the G2 requirements vs an A board without that transistor. Shorting it just increased the G2 voltage your screen requires, thus making your "way too high" G2 acceptable. But that doesn't mean it is working properly nor that you are now able to control the G2, and perform a WPB without error. ;)

BTW, the monitor not remembering his own name and thinking he was born in 1990, that is a weird case of amnesia. :LOL:

1- After the first WPB, reaching almost perfect values, it did save the settings in spite of my initial feeling. The only step I wasn't able to properly do was the very last one (sRGB). It asks you to reach a Y=80 value with a "CONTRAST" slider, and with the slider to the max (255) I was only able to reach 72. I did the Final Setting step, and.....everything looked like shit, in spite of perfect values at every single step. Is it because of that last sRGB step? I was annoyed and couldn't understand what went wrong. So I reloaded my EEPROM backup I did before the WPB, and tried from scratch again...and I reached exactly the same shit result (including the sRGB step).
So this time I decided to keep those new settings and start a new WPB straightaway on top of it. Again, hitting all close to perfect values, reached the final sRGB step...and this time it was totally different! I could properly reach the Y=80 with the slider around 200. I did the Final Setting again, saved it, and... bingo! Everything looks damn perfect. I'm not sure if that makes sense to be honest. For me, the iterative nature of the process was to always try to get slightly closer to perfection, I didn't expect a first run to end up all off, then the next one perfect, it's pretty counter-intuitive to me. In any case, if it happens to you, just do another round or two on top of each other.
Actually there's a screen on which I had to perform the WPB several times in a row. The safety values limited the maximum brightness and only increased step by step with each procedure. I guess that kind of behaviour must happen when the settings are completely off or there has been some manual G2 modification before.
 

Boohyaka

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Actually there's a screen on which I had to perform the WPB several times in a row. The safety values limited the maximum brightness and only increased step by step with each procedure. I guess that kind of behaviour must happen when the settings are completely off or there has been some manual G2 modification before.

Ah, that makes sense! Yet the first result was pretty weird. It was not just a brightness issue, the screen was indeed darker than expected, but also way on the greenish side. In any case, it's now looking very, very good! :)
 

datspike

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But that doesn't mean it is working properly nor that you are now able to control the G2, and perform a WPB without error. ;)

BTW, the monitor not remembering his own name and thinking he was born in 1990, that is a weird case of amnesia. :LOL:

We'll see, I'll try doing a WBP in the evening.

About the amnesia part - I've long pressed reset on that screen and it did that. Whoops.
 

Strat_84

Limp Gawd
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About the amnesia part - I've long pressed reset on that screen and it did that. Whoops.
Ah. Well, let's hope reloading a save of the memory can fix that. You made one right ?

But a reset is not supposed to do that. Did you press the button when displaying something or without any VGA input ? If the later, that could be the reason.
 

datspike

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Ah. Well, let's hope reloading a save of the memory can fix that. You made one right ?

But a reset is not supposed to do that. Did you press the button when displaying something or without any VGA input ? If the later, that could be the reason.
Yeah, I did that when there were no VGA connected. Guess I can live without that info.
Reloading a *.dat file does not help with that. It's okay, I guess.
You were right about the fact that I did not fixed the issue fully with that jumper wire. The green tint is still too strong. At least the monitor does not shutdown now at 9300k drive step.
Wonder what could I troubleshoot next.
 
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Strat_84

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Yeah, I did that when there were no VGA connected. Guess I can live without that info.
Reloading a *.dat file does not help with that. It's okay, I guess.
You were right about the fact that I did not fixed the issue fully with that jumper wire. The green tint is still too strong. At least the monitor does not shutdown now at 9300k drive step.
Wonder what could I troubleshoot next.
Well, IMO you should first fix the mess the previous owner made and check how the screen behaves after that. Replacing a resistor (and a ceramic capacitor, if you confirm it is cracked) will cost almost nothing and with a little luck, it may be enough. ;)
 

datspike

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Well, IMO you should first fix the mess the previous owner made and check how the screen behaves after that. Replacing a resistor (and a ceramic capacitor, if you confirm it is cracked) will cost almost nothing and with a little luck, it may be enough. ;)
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I've fixed the resistor. BUT - with a smaller "form factor" one. Should not matter a lot for a quick test tho. Here's a photo.
Notice that ceramic cap you mentioned seems ok.
IMG_20200807_192200.jpgIMG_20200807_192152.jpg

I realized that now the issue is only happening to picture from the gpu, not the OSD. OSD colors look ok, while the picture from pc looks greeinsh.
Because of that the monitor seemed fine when it was showing that info/date of manufacturing screen, but when there is a picture from a gpu the colors look green.

Looking at the schematics it looks like the issue maybe somewhere on the path through the IC401 (INPUT SELECT) to the IC402 (RGB DRIVE) where the OSD and VGA picture are mixing together. Seems logical?
SumatraPDF_2wq5InipM5.png

I found your message about the caps on VGA input lines back from 2017. Guess I'll check them first as I have an ESR meter.
 
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Strat_84

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Sorry, I forgot to mention that I've fixed the resistor. BUT - with a smaller "form factor" one. Should not matter a lot for a quick test tho. Here's a photo.
Notice that ceramic cap you mentioned seems ok.
Oh, yes apparently that was the other picture giving this impression, on these the capacitor looks OK.
But the resistor you put there is only a 10 Ohm one ? Or is it some kind of marking I've never encountered ?

I realized that now the issue is only happening to picture from the gpu, not the OSD. OSD colors look ok, while the picture from pc looks greeinsh.
Because of that the monitor seemed fine when it was showing that info/date of manufacturing screen, but when there is a picture from a gpu the colors look green.

Looking at the schematics it looks like the issue maybe somewhere on the path through the IC401 (INPUT SELECT) to the IC402 (RGB DRIVE) where the OSD and VGA picture are mixing together. Seems logical?

I found your message about the caps on VGA input lines back from 2017. Guess I'll check them first as I have an ESR meter.
Provided bad luck didn't bring you a defective tube :

If the greenish color is there regardless of the brightness level, it's an issue somewhere on the R, G, or B line from the input plug to the KR, KG, or KB on the tube's socket. It can be something increasing the G signal or something else decreasing the R/B signals.

If only the dark colors are greenish, that would rather be somewhere on the two R, G, B paths from IC404 to IC406 and the location where the R, G, B cutoff lines reach the main R, G, B lines.
 

datspike

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But the resistor you put there is only a 10 Ohm one ? Or is it some kind of marking I've never encountered ?
That's EIA-96 marking code. A weird one, I was also stumbled once I saw it on the chinese bluetooth 2.1 channel amp it's from :)
As always, huge thanks for ideas for troubleshooting.

The green tint present only on VGA signal, and regardless on how bright the image is. So it should be a problem somewhere on the path from the VGA plug to the CN407.
 
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Strat_84

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I had again a look at the picture you posted. With the OSD display I notice the green is so bright it is bleeding on the dark letters inside the green strip. It's a wild guess but the issue is more likely to be on the green line from IC402 to KG.

Edit: Wait, the picture is greenish only with a display input to the VGA plug, but not with the BNC one ?
 
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datspike

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I had again a look at the picture you posted. With the OSD display I notice the green is so bright it is bleeding on the dark letters inside the green strip. It's a wild guess but the issue is more likely to be on the green line from IC402 to KG.

Edit: Wait, the picture is greenish only with a display input to the VGA plug, but not with the BNC one ?
Yup. Before the jumper mode the blacks on that OSD-date screen were not black, they were bright green.
After the jumper mode the blacks came to ~normal (I agree it's still a bit green, but that seems to be fixable with WBP to me) on that OSD-date screen, but the blacks on VGA output are much worse bright green colored.
And I dont have a BNC cable yet. Cant test that.

Anyway, I've checked the C104, C204, C304 - all of them measure to 35-37 nF instead of 47 nF.
C467 is 300nF, while nominal is 1uF
 
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Strat_84

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Anyway, I've checked the C104, C204, C304 - all of them measure to 35-37 nF instead of 47 nF.
C467 is 300nF, while nominal is 1uF
This is weird. One could expect some capacitance decrease and an ESR increase (the later is what may shift color balance with C104/204/304), but not that much. Are you sure your measurement device is working properly ? Does it read proper values on new capacitors of comparable capacitance ranges ?
 

datspike

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This is weird. One could expect some capacitance decrease and an ESR increase (the later is what may shift color balance with C104/204/304), but not that much. Are you sure your measurement device is working properly ? Does it read proper values on new capacitors of comparable capacitance ranges ?
I hope I would be able to test a new from the store cap tomorrow, worst case on monday. But I'm quite sure it's correct..
All the caps on the A board read at least 20% lower than rated capacitance.
 

3dfan

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BTW, the monitor not remembering his own name and thinking he was born in 1990, that is a weird case of amnesia. :LOL:

that picture and your comment actually made my day!! :ROFLMAO:

by the way, that monitor seems to have the original coating film and in good condition, if it is, its a truly jewel deserving to be fully restored!! (as any other crt of course)
 

Rahatropa

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i tested 160hz with sunix dpu3000 adapter hooked to gtx 1080 ti and fw900 and seems to work, didnt persive input lag or image degradation, but it was a quick test, i dont know in the long run how it will behave.
is 160hz an absolute must for you?
No. In fact Im still trying to find what resolution and refresh rate feels best for FPS shooters. When I first got the monitor many many years back I recall gaming at 100hz.. probably 1440x900 or 1600x900. I think so long as its 100-140hz id be fine. Any cod/cs players here that can share their preferred resolution/hz? Thanks!
 

datspike

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Any cod/cs players here that can share their preferred resolution/hz? Thanks!
Not really a cod/cs player, but I use 1384*1038@120 as my desktop resolution and for 4x3 capable games and 1600*1000@133 for 16:10/16:9 games like apex legends on my 22b4's
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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Any cod/cs players here that can share their preferred resolution/hz? Thanks!

Find your own.

You can literally run any resolution/refresh combo you want to on a CRT. Grab Custom Resolution Utility and start experimenting!

Just don't try to play Warzone at 160hz if your CPU can only maintain 100fps most of the time. Matching refresh rate to frame rate is very important for smoothness.
 

3dfan

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No. In fact Im still trying to find what resolution and refresh rate feels best for FPS shooters. When I first got the monitor many many years back I recall gaming at 100hz.. probably 1440x900 or 1600x900. I think so long as its 100-140hz id be fine.

1600x900 and 1440x900 seem to work to max 125hz on the fw900 with 267mhz and 240 mhz pixel clock respectively, those clock values can determinate what type of adapter you need and how expensive would be, if those are your goal resolutions and refreshes, an adapter like the sunix dpu3000 or equivalents (more info in the following link) can be expensive for your needs, and you may only need hdmi to vga adapter like Benfei and Rankie brands. user Derupter made an useful summary of good tested or potentially good untested adapters here:

https://hardforum.com/threads/24-widescreen-crt-fw900-from-ebay-arrived-comments.952788/page-435

you may to try one of those, or the one suggested by xykreilon some posts above, its not easy to recommend one in particulary due that some users can have different experiences with same product than others.
 

datspike

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Vention released a new DP VGA adapter cable based on ANX9833. Usual 8pbc 180Mhz, 6pbc 240Mhz stuff, but you can swap it for ANX6212 or ANX9847 from aliexpress to get 330Mhz 8bpc or above depending on the sample.
The interesing thing is that the adapter seems to be located on the VGA side of the cable, so the whole cable between the GPU and the DAC is digital right before the VGA port of the monitor.

1597097489145.png
I've ordered one, would post the results.
 
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xykreilon

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I recently got my hands on a ViewSonic G90f, having arguably the best specs of any 18" viewable screen CRT.
It even came with the original manuals, driver CDs, and whatnot. Folks, this monitor is in scary good condition:
_1680236.JPG

_1680241.JPG

_1680239.JPG

Good to a point where I almost feel uncomfortable using it 😬
With that, I'm curious about some of the practices you guys do in order to maintain your CRTs and keep them as pristine as possible (or reasonable). My Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751 was in aesthetically awful condition when I got it and still is, despite textbook screen performance. So, I'm somewhat new to all around CRT maintenance.
Are there any particular practices or tricks I should keep in mind?
 

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Strat_84

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Vention released a new DP VGA adapter cable based on ANX9833. Usual 8pbc 180Mhz, 6pbc 240Mhz stuff, but you can swap it for ANX6212 or ANX9847 from aliexpress to get 330Mhz 8bpc or above depending on the sample.
The interesing thing is that the adapter seems to be located on the VGA side of the cable, so the whole cable between the GPU and the DAC is digital right before the VGA port of the monitor.
You won't be able to swap anything, well, not unless you destroy the VGA plug. It is molded, it can't be dismantled.
 
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