24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Joined
Aug 25, 2013
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Personally, I would never trust someone to freight a CRT. From all the horror stories ive read and expect good results. Someone would have to really know what they are doing with the correct materials and be absolutely determined to get it to you, without it receiving any shock. You're at the mercy of the freight handlers and they aren't going to treat something over 100 pounds like a carton of eggs. if it looks okay and in one piece, It's easier than you think to simply dislodge debris inside the tube that will later short it out again and again.

Ebay always sides with the buyer and they have a lot of protection for good reason. If not, ebay would have been out of business a lot time ago.
 
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LAGRUNAUER

Gawd
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Dec 7, 2006
Messages
745
Personally, I would never trust someone to freight a CRT. From all the horror stories ive read and expect good results. Someone would have to really know what they are doing with the correct materials and be absolutely determined to get it to you, without it receiving any shock. You're at the mercy of the freight handlers and they aren't going to treat something over 100 pounds like a carton of eggs. if it looks okay and in one piece, It's easier than you think to simply dislodge debris inside the tube that will later short it out again and again.

Ebay always sides with the buyer and they have a lot of protection for good reason. If not, ebay would have been out of business a lot time ago.

The last GDM-FW900 that we sold, which was not long ago was shipped to South America, and the recipient received the unit as it left my lab, arriving in fully functional condition and undamaged.

We have our units professionally packed, and out of thousands of GDM-FW900s that I have sold and/or repaired all over the world since these monitors were introduced, I only lost two (2) going to Sweden (I do not ship to Sweden any longer), and that is because the units were not re-packed correctly after the customs inspections were made, and they got damaged in route to their recipients.

I am often asked who are the carriers we use to transport our units, and without recommending any of them, we use FedEx and DHL.

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

Vilty

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Feb 21, 2020
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DO NOT ACCEPT PARTIAL REFUND! Get your entire $ back!

That monitor can have several parts broken including the neck of the picture tube which renders the unit useless...

GET YOU ENTIRE $ BACK!

Hope this helps...

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
Ok I will wait for Paypal answers.

The last GDM-FW900 that we sold, which was not long ago was shipped to South America, and the recipient received the unit as it left my lab, arriving in fully functional condition and undamaged.

We have our units professionally packed, and out of thousands of GDM-FW900s that I have sold and/or repaired all over the world since these monitors were introduced, I only lost two (2) going to Sweden (I do not ship to Sweden any longer), and that is because the units were not re-packed correctly after the customs inspections were made, and they got damaged in route to their recipients.

I am often asked who are the carriers we use to transport our units, and without recommending any of them, we use FedEx and DHL.

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
Do you have a Sony gdm fw900 available in your stock for sale ? You are seem to be more reliable than Ebay sellers.
Beside Ebay.de and ebay kleinanzeigen, I can't find a Sony gdm fw900 for sale...

Edit: On ebay kleinanzeigen, a seller are ready to ship me a Sony gdm W900 (not FW900) for €300 shipping cost includes.
Maybe next week, if I have enough to pay but i think i can buy this ones tho but I will be short without my refund from the Fw900...
The Sony gdm W900 was sell for €100 only, good find ? Or is it suspicious ?
 
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Strat_84

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461
Edit: On ebay kleinanzeigen, a seller are ready to ship me a Sony gdm W900 (not FW900) for €300 shipping cost includes.
Maybe next week, if I have enough to pay but i think i can buy this ones tho but I will be short without my refund from the Fw900...
The Sony gdm W900 was sell for €100 only, good find ? Or is it suspicious ?
Keep in mind the GDM-W900 is the older version of the FW900. It has a curve display surface and the refresh rates are limited. It can't even reach 85hz on a 1920x1200 resolution, you have to decrease to 1920x1080.

And regarding the price, it's nothing suspicious, the prices on ebay are just insane, especially now. 5-6 years ago you could find people getting rid of them almost for free.
 

LAGRUNAUER

Gawd
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Dec 7, 2006
Messages
745
Ok I will wait for Paypal answers.


Do you have a Sony gdm fw900 available in your stock for sale ? You are seem to be more reliable than Ebay sellers.
Beside Ebay.de and ebay kleinanzeigen, I can't find a Sony gdm fw900 for sale...

Edit: On ebay kleinanzeigen, a seller are ready to ship me a Sony gdm W900 (not FW900) for €300 shipping cost includes.
Maybe next week, if I have enough to pay but i think i can buy this ones tho but I will be short without my refund from the Fw900...
The Sony gdm W900 was sell for €100 only, good find ? Or is it suspicious ?

Please contact me via PM... or at unkle.vito@unklevito.com

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

Manny1_03

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Aug 27, 2019
Messages
14
Seems like my FW-900 have died. It worked during the morning but once i got home it wont start. It makes 3 attemps to light up. Then the light goes from green to orange.
I have the same problem when it wanted to turn on it did sometimes it even shuts off. The slap thing worked for a while but now when I turn it on I have no Pic not even the no signal one. Then the light turns orange and blinks twice every sec or two anyone know what this means?
 

LAGRUNAUER

Gawd
Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
745
I have the same problem when it wanted to turn on it did sometimes it even shuts off. The slap thing worked for a while but now when I turn it on I have no Pic not even the no signal one. Then the light turns orange and blinks twice every sec or two anyone know what this means?


HV failure:
Amber (0.25 sec) → Off → (0.25 sec) → Amber (0.25 sec) → Off (1.25 sec)

Replace D-board...

Hope this helps...

Sincerely,

Unkle Vito!
 

datspike

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Jul 24, 2017
Messages
52
ANX9833 has a DP receiver that works in HBR mode (2.7Gbps per lane)(max bandwidth 180 MHz)
ANX6212 has a DP receiver that works in HBR2 mode (5.4Gbps per lane)(max bandwidth 360 MHz)
Maybe the DAC is the same,maybe the DP receiver is the same but with different firmware that enable the HBR2 mode
I had the same idea about swapping the chip,both the adapter with ANX9833 (i have one) and the chip ANX6212 are on the market,but i don't have the equipment for the work

Hopefully soon I'll try to do this conversion. I have a Vention HBFBB adapter with ANX9833 and I've ordered 2 of ANX9847 (new ANX6212 revision as I understand) ic's which are used in delock 62967.
Quite funny is that this Vention adapter is detecting my NEC FP955 edid profile properly but fails to detect my 22 blue IV.
It also works in 6 bpc up to 240 MHz with FP955 and does not do that with 22 blue IV being limited to 180 MHz 8 bpc
 

jt55

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Feb 28, 2020
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I got delock 62967 (ANX9847) today and really pleased for the price. pixel clock is more than high enough, at around 1800 x 1350 is where pixel clock limit start to overtake the horizontal scan limit of my DP2070sb which is where it already becomes kind of pointless to trade refresh rate for more resolution due to the blur and dot pitch limit. 1600x1200 @110Hz is the sweet spot
I cant directly compare but I think this adapter actually handles higher scan rates far better than my GTX750Ti DAC did, despite the lower P clock limit.
There was more pronounced ringing and noise artifacts at higher rates rates with 750ti, image is much cleaner now.
Im planning on extending the DP cable and using female to male adapter to connect the adapter 's VGA port directly into the CRT's port for the best possible signal integrity, whether it makes any difference or not compared to standard VGA cable will be interesting.

Also I seen 10 bit support with CRTs mentioned before, are there any options for 10bit adaptors? searched the thread and found the answer
have HDfury X4 or the 10 bit Delock USB C adapters been tested with 10bit output to CRT by anyone?
 
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Kalessian

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Can I actually still buy one of these? I have a 19" DP930SB that I'm still using daily. Widescreen would be incredible. What refresh rate is possible at 720p?
 

3dfan

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185
Can I actually still buy one of these? I have a 19" DP930SB that I'm still using daily. Widescreen would be incredible. What refresh rate is possible at 720p?

unfortunatelly fw900 seems to became hard to find and overpriced in my opinion, however you may try to ask LAGRUNAUER, or in a facebook group called "The CRT Collective" in which i see sometimes members selling fw900.

from my own test, it can go up to 154hz at 720p (1280x720)
 
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Enhanced Interrogator

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Hey spacediver, can you post a link for the type of loupe you used to fine-tune the convergence on your monitors? There are tons of loupes out there of varying magnifications, I'm curious which type would be best for this purpose.
 

spacediver

2[H]4U
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Messages
2,672
Hey spacediver, can you post a link for the type of loupe you used to fine-tune the convergence on your monitors? There are tons of loupes out there of varying magnifications, I'm curious which type would be best for this purpose.

Here you go.

At the time I researched it, it seemed universally regarded as excellent bang for buck. I still treasure it - it's become something of a precious tool that I like to use occasionally. Also important to learn how to use it properly if you want to use it for examining items up close.

This looks like a good tutorial, though not fully applicable to using it on CRTs.
 

datspike

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Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
52
IMG_20200306_110619.jpg
That's Vention HBFBB with ANX9833 swapped to ANX6212. Will test it in ~7 hours and edit the message :)
I've also got another sample of HBFBB on hands and 2 ANX9847 coming from aliexpress, will be quite interesting if that one would not work

upd. IT'S WORKING! 360 Mhz 8bpc
ApplicationFrameHost_peqW9QBEbd.png
ApplicationFrameHost_30nYlduZGj.png
 
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Petrasescu_Lucian

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datspike

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That would require 389 MHz (GTF). 360 MHz is the max pixel clock rate (8 bpc) for 2 lane DisplayPort 1.2 used by the ANX9833, ANX6211, and ANX6212.
Do these support 6 bpc input for higher pixel clocks (480 MHz) using Nvidia control panel? Does AMD control panel have a 6 bpc option?
Nope. All I've managed to squeeze from it at 6bpc is ~367 MHz.
 

datspike

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Jul 24, 2017
Messages
52
The driver accepts 480 MHz timing, but the adapter outputs black from the DACs or no syncs at all?
For some reason I lost EDID detect today while swapping between my FP955 and 22b4, so I will only be able to test that when I will get back home from my country house in 2 days on my another 22b4
 

Derupter

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Messages
224
I got delock 62967 (ANX9847) today and really pleased for the price. pixel clock is more than high enough, at around 1800 x 1350 is where pixel clock limit start to overtake the horizontal scan limit of my DP2070sb which is where it already becomes kind of pointless to trade refresh rate for more resolution due to the blur and dot pitch limit. 1600x1200 @110Hz is the sweet spot
I cant directly compare but I think this adapter actually handles higher scan rates far better than my GTX750Ti DAC did, despite the lower P clock limit.
There was more pronounced ringing and noise artifacts at higher rates rates with 750ti, image is much cleaner now.
Im planning on extending the DP cable and using female to male adapter to connect the adapter 's VGA port directly into the CRT's port for the best possible signal integrity, whether it makes any difference or not compared to standard VGA cable will be interesting.

Also I seen 10 bit support with CRTs mentioned before, are there any options for 10bit adaptors? searched the thread and found the answer
have HDfury X4 or the 10 bit Delock USB C adapters been tested with 10bit output to CRT by anyone?

Extending the DP cable may cause performance degradation with that adapter like no stable HBR2 mode, so be warned.
About 10 bit adapters read here
Also chipset like LT8711X-B or LT8712X of the Vention adapters may have 10 bit DAC.
No one did 10 bit test with these adapters.

That's Vention HBFBB with ANX9833 swapped to ANX6212. Will test it in ~7 hours and edit the message :)
I've also got another sample of HBFBB on hands and 2 ANX9847 coming from aliexpress, will be quite interesting if that one would not work

upd. IT'S WORKING! 360 Mhz 8bpc

A very nice job, 360 MHz with 8 bit is the max with that chipset, the best sample i have with ANX9847 can do 355 MHz, the average is 345-347 Mhz.
I'd be curious to see the results with the ANX9847, look at the PCB of the Delock 62967
DSC05806.JPG
very similar isn't it?
 
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jt55

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Feb 28, 2020
Messages
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Extending the DP cable may cause performance degradation with that adapter like no stable HBR2 mode, so be warned.
About 10 bit adapters read here
Also chipset like LT8711X-B or LT8712X of the Vention adapters may have 10 bit DAC.
No one did 10 bit test with these adapters.
The DP cable on it actually seems to be decent quality so not going to bother with that.

I still got the VGA gender adapter though, basically had to set up my PC so that it was behind the CRT with its GPU outputs facing it to be able to plug it in with existing short DP cable on the converter.
The improvement to image quality was quite pronounced with this direct connection, this is compared to Profigold VGA cable too, not a cheap VGA cable.
Getting almost LCD levels of sharpness at 60-70Hz and realising I've totally underestimated high resolutions on the CRT.
The incredible thing is how you dont lose the near perfect motion clarity at lower refresh rates, a sharp high res image along with this level of motion clarity is even more impressive, on top of that you still have the excellent contrast and colours and you can even appreciate the contrast far more with better defined edges.

Hopefully they eventually release a cheap HDMI or DP version with that chipset. With around 1800 x 1350 @ 60Hz with a 200Mhz p clock it still seems usable.
 
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XoR_

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That would require 389 MHz (GTF). 360 MHz is the max pixel clock rate (8 bpc) for 2 lane DisplayPort 1.2 used by the ANX9833, ANX6211, and ANX6212.
Do these support 6 bpc input for higher pixel clocks (480 MHz) using Nvidia control panel? Does AMD control panel have a 6 bpc option?
Why would anyone want to use 6bit?
With good dithering it looks ok but it is still additional noise and all you get in return is going higher resolution while still being way beyond where these displays can display pixel perfect image.

Getting almost LCD levels of sharpness at 60-70Hz and realising I've totally underestimated high resolutions on the CRT.
The incredible thing is how you dont lose the near perfect motion clarity at lower refresh rates, a sharp high res image along with this level of motion clarity is even more impressive, on top of that you still have the excellent contrast and colours and you can even appreciate the contrast far more with better defined edges.
60Hz on CRT? You mad bro?
Motion will be sharp but you need v-sync and input lag will be horrendous not to mention it is bad for eyes because it flickers like hell.

The only reason to use CRT these days is gaming and for that it is best to keep high refresh rate of about 100Hz and preferably higher. Thus no crazy high resolutions anyway independent of adapter/output used.
 

joevt

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Why would anyone want to use 6bit?
Curiosity. We have these adapters that can do 330, 340, 360 MHz and I wonder if they can go faster using 6 bit.

With good dithering it looks ok but it is still additional noise and all you get in return is going higher resolution while still being way beyond where these displays can display pixel perfect image.
I understand that the adapters while they can accept pixels at 360 MHz, that their DACs may only give good results up to 270 MHz or whatever. Of course CRTs have a limit on their resolution based on the dot pitch of the phosphors or shadow mask or aperture grille but we can use the bandwidth to increase refresh rate instead. If the DACs were perfect, then does increasing refresh rate produce a less perfect image?
 

3dfan

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60Hz on CRT? You mad bro?
Motion will be sharp but you need v-sync and input lag will be horrendous not to mention it is bad for eyes because it flickers like hell.

when it's a personal and respectable point of view, 60hz crt gaming is far from being a "flicker like hell" experience generalized as you state, as a matter of fact one of the strong points of crts againts today motion clarity technicles used by modern monitors (strobing back lights or black frame insertion sofware) is precisely its rolling scan image generation nature agains modern monitor black at once strobing periods or black frame insertion software to produce better motion clarity which result in a notable worse flicker than crts, i have personally witnessed it, being necesary to use higher refresh rates than crt to achieve the same flicker free perception (and so, more expensive gpus) at the point of manufacturers are locking modern monitors refresh rates below 75 - 85hz when strobing backlights due to "flicker like hell" worse than crt flicker experience feeling on these. also i have been playing a lot of games at 60hz on crts for over 20 years and still do on my fw900 (even some at 55hz on mame) and have never notice the flicker nor have had eye strain issues.

im not pretending to state i am a special flicker inmune man here, i know there are many gamers that enjoy 60hz crt gaming with no issues (even 60hz modern monitor strobing) as well an other that dont, no offence but i just find senseless to generalize this as you do.

as for the input lag, for single player is quite decent and enjoyable with vsync on crt even at 60hz for me, no need to generalize it as well, also there are ways to reduce it and preserve vsync on tearless experience like using things like fast sync, low latency modes (nvidia or amd equivalent) scanline sync (Rivatuner Statistics Server software) etc..;)
 
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Petrasescu_Lucian

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as for the input lag, for single player is quite decent and enjoyable with vsync on crt even at 60hz for me, no need to generalize it as well, also there are ways to reduce it and preserve vsync on tearless experience like using things like fast sync, low latency modes (nvidia or amd equivalent) scanline sync (Rivatuner Statistics Server software) etc..;)
Scanline Sync is godlike on a CRT ;)
 

XoR_

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3dfan
It could be even said that for 60fps locked games it makes sense to run them at 60Hz monitor, eg. all emulators, console ports, some id software games, etc. and yes, CRT is much much better for this than trying to run 60Hz strobed on LCDs

My comment was rather than prioritize resolution sacrificing refresh rate one should find middle ground so for example with 200MHz clock budget I would want eg. 1280x960 with as high refresh rate possible which would be close to 120Hz rather than eg. 1800 x 1350 @ 60Hz which seems unusable both in terms of actually being able to properly resolve each pixel clearly and also very flickery, bad for eyes and with inferior input lag and motion fluidity. Cause yes, even though 60Hz on CRT with proper synchronization is very clear and seems fluid, 120Hz on CRT is so much better.

Scanline Sync is godlike on a CRT ;)
True
 

XoR_

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Curiosity. We have these adapters that can do 330, 340, 360 MHz and I wonder if they can go faster using 6 bit.
For curiosity it makes sense
For actual usage it could also make some sense if dithering is good enough eg. Radeons do have great dithering. On Nvidia there are ways to enable dithering and eg. get on 8bit connection/displays proper banding-less gamma control, but unfortunately it is not enabled by default and the last time I tried it it was very finnicky and got disabled after eg. putting computer to sleep.

I understand that the adapters while they can accept pixels at 360 MHz, that their DACs may only give good results up to 270 MHz or whatever. Of course CRTs have a limit on their resolution based on the dot pitch of the phosphors or shadow mask or aperture grille but we can use the bandwidth to increase refresh rate instead. If the DACs were perfect, then does increasing refresh rate produce a less perfect image?
My Delock does ~340-50MHz on 8bit and image quality is almost the same as on native outputs from graphic cards such as GTX780 or Radeon 7950
Increasing refresh rate does in fact decrease sharpness but it is I believe more due to how CRT works than due to DAC quality. Very long time ago when I used CRTs for desktop I would use resolutions such as 1280x960 @ 85Hz instead of 100Hz or 120Hz because it gave much sharper image even though I could do something like 1600x1200@100 or even 120Hz.

Today it does not matter though. For games it is much less important and for desktop we have LCDs which are superior in every single aspect for this usage scenario.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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Games are fine at 60hz, after all, we all watched 60hz CRT TV's during our childhood. 60hz only bothers me when browsing the web and stuff like that.

And besides scanline sync, vsync input lag can also be reduced by capping frame rate to a a few thousandths of a frame below the refresh rate, and also using Nvidia and AMD's new "low latency" modes that reduce CPU buffer time. Not saying 60hz is the way to go for competitive games, but I played all of Control at 1792x1344 and it was great.

And in DX9 games, you can use GeDoSaTo to delay CPU buffer time to a fraction of the overall frame time.
 

datspike

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we all watched 60hz CRT TV's during our childhood.
I was under assumption that TV CRT's are using a much more "long lasting" phosphor, making them save the picture for a longer period and eliminating flicker that way.
I get headaches and my eye's hurt if I run my 22b4 under 90 Hz :/

BTW, I got the Delock 62967 and it's capable of just 340 Mhz, also has a short dp connector without a lock. Worse than a ANX6212 swapped Vention in every way, eh. Guess I'll try to sell it.
And my ANX9847 shipment got canceled. Seem's like I would not be able to test a Vention with ANX9847, sorry Derupter

I've got 6 Vention HBFBB and 6 ANX6212 shipped to me, so testing them will be interesting at least.
 

jbltecnicspro

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I was under assumption that TV CRT's are using a much more "long lasting" phosphor, making them save the picture for a longer period and eliminating flicker that way.
I get headaches and my eye's hurt if I run my 22b4 under 90 Hz :/

BTW, I got the Delock 62967 and it's capable of just 340 Mhz, also has a short dp connector without a lock. Worse than a ANX6212 swapped Vention in every way, eh. Guess I'll try to sell it.
And my ANX9847 shipment got canceled. Seem's like I would not be able to test a Vention with ANX9847, sorry Derupter

I've got 6 Vention HBFBB and 6 ANX6212 shipped to me, so testing them will be interesting at least.

As far as I can tell, CRT TV's use the same phosphors as the professional monitors. I think that TV's don't flicker as much because:

1. The resolution was far lower than PC monitors, so you don't need to draw as much dots in a single shot.
2. Most of the time you'd never see a true 60hz progressive signal unless running at half the vertical resolution of 60i (otherwise known as 240p). At that low a resolution, you wouldn't see hardly any flicker - even on large screens.

Just my thoughts. I've owned all of the high-end GDM monitors and have a PVM right now, so I'm speculating based on those experiences.
 

Enhanced Interrogator

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I get headaches and my eye's hurt if I run my 22b4 under 90 Hz :/

So to be clear, you're not talking about only typical desktop usage, 60hz in video games gives you a headache too?

Because there are so many games that are capped at 60fps (Raman Legends, Mega Man 11, Street Fighter 5) that I would hate to not be able to play at 60hz and get the 1:1 frame rate to refresh rate smoothness.
 
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