24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by mathesar, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    Well, since my motherboard has 3 pci-e x16 slots, I put my 380x in a spare one. Good news is you can play any game in borderless windowed mode from the main GPU and output it on the secondary GPU. This left open the full range of resolutions from the 380x, including interlaced. Bad news is borderless windowed: it has an extra frame or so of lag. So for casual single player games, it's fine. Also best to hook up to a pci-e slot that doesn't share lanes with the main gpu.

    Then I tried with a less power hungry HD 5450, but it's old and on legacy drivers, so I couldn't install both at the same time. Maybe with some registry tweaks and some Device Manager tricks? I dunno, I didn't feel like messing with it anymore.

    My next experiment will be to hook up an Extron 101v to a 4k TV, copy the EDID, then use with my 5700xt. That will probably get here tomorrow or monday. EDIT: Did one better and programmed a dummy plug with CRU + edid-rw. See next post
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  2. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    So I played around with some spoofed hardware EDID's.

    TLDR: The resolutions on the hardware EDID work as normal, no pixel clock limit, but I'm still hitting a ~350mHz limit from AMD's custom res utility, and anything I put in CRU is still ignored. Maybe AMD is recognizing the Displayport device as a splitter, which "officially" max out at 2560x1600@60hz (sunix specifications)?

    Anyway, here's how got a different EDID to the GPU:

    So I reprogrammed a dummy HDMI plug with linux utility "edid-rw". Pretty easy to do, since you can just export a BIN file from CRU. I just had to delete a couple extension blocks since the dummy had 256 bytes memory, and a full size EDID is 512 bytes.

    After that I hooked up the dummy plug to an Extron 101V, which saved the EDID. Now I just run my Sunix to the 101V, and the 101V provides the EDID while passing through RGBHV.

    If you don't have a passthrough device like the 101V, you could also put them dummy plug on a active or passive splitter. You just have to make sure the EDID signals from the actual monitor aren't getting to the GPU, only the dummy. So snip ID wires, use a 5 BNC cable to go to the monitor, etc.

    edid-rw could also reprogram the EDID on your actual monitor if you wanted to, but sometimes they're write protected, which then requires snipping a pin on the ID chip
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  3. Manny1_03

    Manny1_03 n00b

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    Thanks for those suggestions and sorry I haven't been able to get back to you guys. Well guess what friends? It works now it was so dusty and it had some sort of sticky residue. I cleaned what I could and then it turned on.
     
  4. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    Well i'll be damned if a fella isn't a monkey's uncle!!! Well i was watching some videos on youtube again my video shak-y-eir than Michael Jay Fox playing Zoro AS USUAL. And i got the notion of interference based on my recent purchases vs when this CRT started shitting the bed! Turned off my air purifier under my desk and the shaky vision STOPPED DEAD!!! Good ol picture as usual!!! All i need now is to dial in color! 2304x1440 @ 79hz!

    Here's what my picture looked like before

     
  5. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    wow, after four months, such a simple fix!
     
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  6. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    So was it a power issue or moisture/air issue? You're the guy in Texas whose AC broke down too, right?
     
  7. Derupter

    Derupter Limp Gawd

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    Anything you put in CRU is ignored over that pixel clock?
    Can be a problem with the Displayport link rate.
    Radeon Settings -> Display -> Specs -> Current Link Speed:
    if you see 2.7 Gbps x 4 you are on HBR and max pixel clock is 360 MHz
    if you see 5.4 Gbps x 4 you are on HBR2 and max pixel clock is 720 MHz
    The problem is that it shows the current link based on the active resolution,so example you can see at 1600x1200 100 Hz:
    2.7 Gbps x 4 or
    5.4 Gbps x 2 (if it shows this then there are no problems with HBR2 and the problem is elsewhere)
    Eventually you can try with another displayport cable or connect it to another port
     
  8. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    As far as I understand it was his air purifier device that was either emitting EMIs affecting the display, or sending noise in his AC line, and that noise made throught the FW900's power supply.
     
  9. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    Ney, Missouri, it's some kind of interference from the fan in the air cleaner/filter. i get a lot of dust and shoved a levoit air purifier under my desk to help circulate clean air when running all my electronics, guess that didn't do much since i have to turn it off to enjoy my CRT. :-/

    BTW, since the CRT is so long i moved my desk closer to me and away from the wall with a big gap and the CRT's back hangs over said gap, give me more desk space and a space for the air to move a bit more freely. The Filter sits down below and blows air up through that big gap. maybe i might try another model of air cleaner.
     
  10. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    You know what relay sucks about owning a CRT?
    when it has a odd ball tube you can't find specks on to rejuvenate or have a plug for so you have to use a pig tail an hope for the best.
    I have a Mitsubishi CRT that is super nice but its dimming :(
     
  11. cdoublejj

    cdoublejj Limp Gawd

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    CRT repair is becoming more popular on youtube, maybe you might get lucky with a bit of info?
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  12. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    I tried. I 99% shure I know the specks. But I'm. It risking it
     
  13. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    Display info in Radeon Settings says 5.4x4

    Actually, it seems that everything in CRU, regardless of pixel clock, is ignored. Yesterday I checked on my dad's 380x PC, hooked up via HDMI to a TV, and it seemed to be ignoring CRU as well. Either EDID overrides are broken, or intentionally disabled. I'll submit a query to AMD support and see what's going on.
     
  14. Manny1_03

    Manny1_03 n00b

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    Hey, since my fw900 is working again why am I only getting 1920x1080? Could it be the different hardware I'm using? I'm using windows 10.The gpu is a bit old it was never tested with this monitor until a few days ago. It is an Asus R9 390x amd graphics card. I mostly use for gaming such as Apex legends. In the past I used to get 2304x1600 or 1920x1200. Any idea's?
     
  15. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    are you sure its the FW900?
    You may have to load a driver or make a custom res in you gpu drivers panel. I have to do that for my crt.
     
  16. Manny1_03

    Manny1_03 n00b

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    Yes, I am sure it is the Fw900. I have tried creating a custom resolution with Amd display settings but it says the monitor is not compatible with that resolution.
     
  17. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    If I remember well the R9 390x has digital outputs only right ? So you're now using an adapter whereas you used to plug the monitor directly on the graphic card in the past ? In that case, the adapter is probably the reason of your issues, 1920x1080 is the standard resolution they are usually set to as a default.
    Try setting a custom resolution with CRU if AMD display settings doesn't work.
     
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  18. Manny1_03

    Manny1_03 n00b

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    Yes, That card only has digital outputs. Im currently using this adapter which I bought a couple of days ago. https://www.amazon.com/CableDeconn-...n+dvid+to+vga&qid=1568142715&s=gateway&sr=8-7. In the past I used to use a gtx 680 with the adapter it came with and had no problems using higher resolutions at higher hz. I will try CRU later on when I'm home.
     
  19. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    According to the specifications, that is limited to 1900x1200@60hz. For most cheap DVI and HDMI converters, that is really about as high as they can go.

    Search the past 20 pages of this thread for better suggestions.
     
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  20. Derupter

    Derupter Limp Gawd

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    I remember some old AMD drivers with the EDID override completely ignored, corrected after some releases.
    Maybe they broke it again, which driver are you currently using?
    Anyway that limit with the custom resolutions is strange.
     
  21. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    Using latest drivers. 19.9.1.

    Good thing it's easy to program the EDID dummy with my laptop
     
  22. flod

    flod Gawd

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    wow it's been a while since i last posted in this thread. so i've move from california to sorta the middle of nowhere in urbana illinois. unfortunately i (barely) did not have enough room to bring along my cpd-g520p, which is now sitting in my parents' garage. now i sort of regret fitting my bike inside my car i probably could have made space.

    just for shits and giggles i thought i'd search for crt monitors near here. and... i found this within driving distance: https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-P260-C...itron-Tube-Mfg-21-1920x1440-24mm/323895672149

    the price is kinda extreme? or are crts really this rare now? back in the day (well like 5-6years ago) i picked up an fw900 for like $250 or something, and a cpd-g520p for $85
     
  23. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    :ROFLMAO:

    Forget it, this is just some ebay scam, it's not even sure that screen was worth that when it was brand new. And the guy pretends to charge so much because he "refurbished it". Understand he performed a WPB (or worse, maybe statisfied himself with a dirty G2 change :LOL: ).

    Just pathetic. :facepalm:
     
  24. Enhanced Interrogator

    Enhanced Interrogator Gawd

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    These monitors are becoming super rare though. I haven't seen one on craigslist in months. Even a bad one.
     
  25. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    It's true there are less of them in classified ads than there was a few years ago. But that still doesn't justify such prices, the boys are old and their remaining lifetime is unpredictable without some serious maintenance.
     
  26. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    yea, definitely rarer these days. For those who are curious, the IBM P260 seems to be very similar, if not identical to the P275, other than supporting a bit less bandwidth. ANd P275 is a rebranded CPD G520.

    Hard to find a reliable souce for what the rebrand of the P260 is. I dug up an old forum post claiming it to be the Sony CPD-G500, but those specs don't match up (the G500 has 0.23 mm pixel pitch, while G520 has 0.24 mm).

    A lot of visual cognition labs used the G520, and I know for a fact that some of them are being used in 2019 (you can do a google scholar search to verify this).

    So there may be a few pulses of these tubes for a while to come, hard to say more than that though without more info.

    So I'm not sure whether the price for the P260 is exorbitant or not. I'd say that if it were in very good condition, it could be rare enough to be a justified price, but again, who knows what these labs will sell em for during any such pulses.
     
  27. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    I do have a P260, I can testify it has nothing to do with a P275, it's just another G500 clone with a few weird resolution presets, a slightly modified A board with a DVI-I plug, and the IBM massive square plastic case. ;)
     
  28. brownvim

    brownvim n00b

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    Our monitors getting some attention from Digital Foundry

     
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  29. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    The P260 and P275 have very similar specs, with the exception of the bandwidth difference. It's like the P275's younger sibling.

    And yea, I think you're right about it being a G500 rebadge. I looked at more official documentation, and the pixel pitches match between them. Cnet incorrectly reports the G500 pixel pitch as 0.23 mm, whereas it should be listed as 0.24 mm.
     
  30. Nightfire

    Nightfire [H]ard|Gawd

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    I honestly dismissed CRT as toy for a bunch of retro geeks. After watching that video, I was blown away. Even for a modern game like Control, the game was said looked nicer using 768p than a 4k LCD!

    So where does this leave us? Have we really taken that far of a step back going LCD? GPU manufactures are pumping out 10+ teraflops graphics cards designed for higher and higher resolutions with support for more advanced AA when a better experience could be had using a much cheaper card and a quality CRT. It kind of feels like PC gamers were sold out in the name of 'progress'.
     
  31. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    Awesome video. I've replied to John Linneman's twitter thread (first time using twitter lol).

    I want to make sure they see this tube after a proper WinDAS WPB adjustment :)

    If anyone has some more direct way of contacting them, let me know!
     
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  32. flod

    flod Gawd

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  33. brownvim

    brownvim n00b

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    You can message him directly on Twitter, might be more chance of him reading it. I have sent him a message to check out this thread.
     
  34. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    Actually, people were just fooled by marketing. It's big, it heats, it's a flickering crap that kills your eyes (and seal babies), throw it away and buy our new fashion super flat LCD ! *

    * We do not guarantee our new fashion super flat LCD to provide a quality display and we actually only care to sell that shit because it's cheaper to manufacture and allows to cut logistical costs.:wacky:
     
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  35. 3dfan

    3dfan [H]Lite

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    could not agree more with you, Strat_84

    i remember back in the 90 - early 2000s when CRT monitors were the norm, back then when going to shop a new CRT monitor for gaming, it was really hard for me to see the difference between models image quality - performance related since all had excelent viewing angles, excelent latencies, excelent blacks, excelent motion clarity, excelent colors, excelent non native multi resolution image quality, clear text clarity, so the only diferences i noticed was screen sizes, max refresh rates and max resolution support.

    i remember when the LCD tech started to emerge, their massive flaws were instant notable, however back then, i was confident that it was because the LCD technology was too new and needed to mature, and i was a fool dreamer confident that in a few years we would see all that godness image quality - performance CRTs had inside a flat monitor, but sadly, about 20 years later CRT still are the less flaw tech image quality - performance related tech.




    now monitor manufacturers sell the idea that you need a diferent monitor to achieve a particular thing:

    -a very high refresh rate monitor for best latency - motion clarity up to 240 + hz however, still not as good clarity as CRT even at 240hz!! the CRT can achieve those at a much low refresh rate, and at the expense of those high refresh rate monitors having mediocre color, poor viewing angles, blacks etc.

    -sell the idea to need a IPS monitor to achieve better viewing angles color quality, at the expense of poor blacks, vertical viewing notable color shifting not so good latency, motion clarity, etc.

    -sell the idea to need a VA panel for better blacks but still not as good s CRTs at the expense of not so good latency, motion clarity, etc

    -sell the idea to need OLED for best blacks at the expense of not so good motion clarity, limited resfresh rate, even more prone to screen burn thatn CRTs are, etc.

    -sell the idea to need strobing for CRT quality motion clarity, even when that strobing is confirmed to have worse notable flicker than CRTs at lower refresh rates and alter image brightness, so that most manufacturers decided to only allow strobing at refresh rates up to 85 + hz and lock brightness control leaving the image either too bright or too dim when strobing.
     
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  36. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    Thanks, done :)
     
  37. flod

    flod Gawd

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    guys...
    is this site legit?
    http://www.tamayatech.com

    seems like they have lots of refurb'd trinitron displays for sale
    (in search bar, type trinitron in description and 5000 for max price to filter out the out-of-stock displays)
     
  38. dany man

    dany man Limp Gawd

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    I tried buying stuff from them before. They don't remove old listings. So you might ill get an email stating something is out of stock
     
  39. flod

    flod Gawd

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    thanks, i i guess i'll try calling tomorrow
     
  40. 3dfan

    3dfan [H]Lite

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    https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/crt-monitor-modern-gaming/

    nice to see even some more advertising about CRT strengts in 2019, would love to see that helping convincing NVIDIA and AMD that it is still too early to discontinue analog inputs and bring them back, or at least motivate DAC adapter manufacturers to develop better and cheaper devices but well, i know i am being quite optimistic here