24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

cdoublejj

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a year or 2 ago someone mentioned in this thread a full on black box small production number expensive low latency adapter box of some sort. it sounded like a indiegogo or kickstarter type deal
 

christpunchers

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Most of the CRT monitors if not all are GTF compliant.
For CRT by default,without custom resolutions,the display driver uses GTF timings or DMT.
DMT isn't a timing formula,it is a list of resolutions with various refresh rate,if you set a resolution on a CRT which is on that list the driver uses those timings,otherwise it uses GTF formula.
Timings on DMT list can be custom(old resolutions),GTF or CVT(new resolutions),so for some resolutions if you set DMT or GTF is the same thing,for other resolutions DMT is the same as CVT,for old resolutions like example 1024x768 85Hz DMT is different from both GTF and CVT.
CVT reduced and secondary GTF are only for LCD monitors.
When using custom resolutions you can set any timing formula you like,but you have to keep in mind that if you change the formula of a resolution previously adjusted and stored in the monitor's memory,you will need to adjust the geometry again.
Some time ago i asked ToastyX to implement GTF on CRU utility and it seems that last preview version has it.

I see. I guess CVT and GTF are quite similar. Though CVT uses less pixel clock. I’m using 78hz instead of 85hz. I find my unit to be slightly sharper with lower refresh rate.
 

XoR_

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This Sunix adapter is rated to operate at pixel clock close to 400MHz?

If not then it is simply overclocking lottery and some adapters will work fine, others will not...
 

Aktan

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This Sunix adapter is rated to operate at pixel clock close to 400MHz?

If not then it is simply overclocking lottery and some adapters will work fine, others will not...

Good question, Sunix doesn't know the spec, and Synaptics is hard to contact, so I don't know what the rated clock is.
 

spacediver

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whats the difference bet the sony FW900 and the SGI FW9011? Purley badging? I noticed on my FW 9011 that windows 10 doesn't pick up the EDID info, just displays a generic plug and play monitor..

Badging, and I think EDID info reflects the particular variant.
 

Strat_84

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This Sunix adapter is rated to operate at pixel clock close to 400MHz?

If not then it is simply overclocking lottery and some adapters will work fine, others will not...
Given that something like 500-600Mhz pixel clocks were reached, I doubt this is the case. The main problem must rather be drivers/OSes not allowing some resolutions or proper displayport lane speeds to be used.
Crimson AMD drivers are a source of problems to select the resolutions you wish on Windows, it's not totally unexpected to see similar issues with Nvidia.
 

Petrasescu_Lucian

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This Sunix adapter is rated to operate at pixel clock close to 400MHz?

If not then it is simply overclocking lottery and some adapters will work fine, others will not...
My splitter is practically unusable above 1920x1440. At 2048x1536, any refresh rate from 60 to 85Hz makes the monitor go into standby randomly but frequently.
At resolutions above this, the splitter either produces rippling/waving artefacts or displaces the image like in the attached photo about 50% of the time.
 

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Aktan

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My splitter is practically unusable above 1920x1440. At 2048x1536, any refresh rate from 60 to 85Hz makes the monitor go into standby randomly but frequently.
At resolutions above this, the splitter either produces rippling/waving artefacts or displaces the image like in the attached photo about 50% of the time.

I've had the rippling affect which goes away if I choose the right refresh rate (choosing the right refresh rate also fixed my monitor going blank), but I've never encountered a displacement of the screen like you show in your screenshot. Dang, that looks bad. Have you had a chance to try Ubuntu Live yet? Though even if it works fine in Ubuntu, I don't know how you would solve it in Windows...
 

Petrasescu_Lucian

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It's the splitter alright; it has nothing to do with my setup. In the previous attached photo my F520 is at 2440x1830 63Hz, the last supported custom res by the integrated DAC (397 MHz). On the analog output of my GTX 980 everything is rock solid.
Don't get me wrong EnhancedInterrogator I can hit the highest resolution that saturates the 137KHz bandwidth of my F520 which is 2880x2160@60Hz but after a while the screen starts to ripple in the corners and after a few seconds the image is displaced as shown. If I unplug&replug the displayport cable it goes away but returns after a while. I also tried a different cable, same thing.
 

XoR_

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Sound like it is a overclocking lottery then

Then again why would anyone bother to get 60Hz refresh rate on CRT? :banghead:
For 4:3 monitors best resolution is 1600x1200@higher_refresh_rate_you_can_have and use AA
 

Aktan

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Sound like it is a overclocking lottery then

Then again why would anyone bother to get 60Hz refresh rate on CRT? :banghead:
For 4:3 monitors best resolution is 1600x1200@higher_refresh_rate_you_can_have and use AA

It might be lottery, or maybe not. What makes me think otherwise is that I have 2 Sunix adapters and both get the same problem at the same refresh rates.
 

etienne51

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Holy crap, that is unexpected. Where did you see this?

It was on HDFury official forum. That's also what brought me back here, I just realised you guys actually found an adapter capable of reaching frequencies above 500-600MHz, hell... :ROFLMAO: That's something I was not expecting at all. And no input lag!

Well then, I seem to understand noone actually tried the Delock 87685 model? I'll buy one of these later today, and I'll also get the Sunix DPU3000-D3 (or maybe -D2, haven't decided yet).

I have my Alienware M17x R4 that I just upgraded with a 1070 card (miniDP), the integrated VGA port is now disabled of course, and I still have the 1080 on my desktop computer (DP). I'll be able to run some tests.

I also seem to understand that the Sunix adapter comes only with one of the two cables, miniDP for -D2 vs DP for -D3. And if buying from Amazon official "SUNIX IT" reseller, I should also get the USB power cable, right?

Now for the Delock, their adapter comes with all 3 cables! So that's great. I'll have all the flexibility to try both on my laptop and desktop.
 

etienne51

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I bought from Amazon right away, I got the Sunix DPU3000-D3. And there is a -30% discount btw, that's really nice.
 

Aktan

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I also seem to understand that the Sunix adapter comes only with one of the two cables, miniDP for -D2 vs DP for -D3. And if buying from Amazon official "SUNIX IT" reseller, I should also get the USB power cable, right?

That's correct.
 

Derupter

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It was on HDFury official forum. That's also what brought me back here, I just realised you guys actually found an adapter capable of reaching frequencies above 500-600MHz, hell... :ROFLMAO: That's something I was not expecting at all. And no input lag!

Well then, I seem to understand noone actually tried the Delock 87685 model? I'll buy one of these later today, and I'll also get the Sunix DPU3000-D3 (or maybe -D2, haven't decided yet).

I have my Alienware M17x R4 that I just upgraded with a 1070 card (miniDP), the integrated VGA port is now disabled of course, and I still have the 1080 on my desktop computer (DP). I'll be able to run some tests.

I also seem to understand that the Sunix adapter comes only with one of the two cables, miniDP for -D2 vs DP for -D3. And if buying from Amazon official "SUNIX IT" reseller, I should also get the USB power cable, right?

Now for the Delock, their adapter comes with all 3 cables! So that's great. I'll have all the flexibility to try both on my laptop and desktop.

So will you try even the Delock 87685?
That's very interesting
How is it going with the fixed 62967,it still works?
For the 87685 look here:
https://geizhals.eu/1198543599
 

etienne51

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Yeah definately. I'm also going to get the Delock one soon. I'd like to have a spare adapter anyway, and why not give this one a try at the same time. I'll also get the extra cables.

The price is quite high though. With the deal I got, the Delock ends up being twice the cost of the Sunix.

Yeah I saw that page already. I was thinking about getting the Delock 87685 from Mindfactory, but shipping to Reunion is impossible directly. I have to ship to a package forwarding service in France, or a friend there. Not nice. I'll see if I can find a better way first.
 

etienne51

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How is it going with the fixed 62967,it still works?

Still working great. I did not try anything else since then. I've just been using it mostly at 1920x1200@96 and also 2304x1440@71 sometimes (default GTF settings, I know I could tweak that to get 72Hz, but after reinstalling the PC I did not bother, I did not need the extra 1Hz for movies and stuff like that).

Nothing to report, not a single issue.

And I should have built a case for it, it's still the same way I left it months ago, the bare PCB, hahahaha...
I guess I'll take a moment and make a 3D printed shell to protect it correctly.
Shielding is not important here I would say, I haven't noticed any issues from running the adapter without one.
 

Derupter

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Take a look to jacob.de,the last time I checked they had the best shipping costs out of Germany
 

Strat_84

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Take a look to jacob.de,the last time I checked they had the best shipping costs out of Germany
The trick is also to not go directly to their website but rather make a search for the item on a price comparison website like geizhals.de and then got to jacob.de through their links. Surprisingly that makes the item cheaper.
 

Strat_84

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A question to people having replaced the AR film with a polarizer:

Is there static electricity building up on the surface of the screen ? Is it with / without conductive tape connecting the film to the chassis ?
 

Derupter

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The trick is also to not go directly to their website but rather make a search for the item on a price comparison website like geizhals.de and then got to jacob.de through their links. Surprisingly that makes the item cheaper.

Yeah,that's why i always put the link to geizhals,the 62967 on Jacob.de is 24.50 euro,passing through geizhals is 19.32 euro,sadly for the 87685 the discount is low.
I received from Delock some informations about the new chipset Realtek RTD2169U:
Max digital input bandwidth 360 MHz
DAC speed 210 MHz 24 bit
Now i wait for VMM2322,maybe they can get informations directly from Synaptics
 

3dfan

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A question to people having replaced the AR film with a polarizer:

Is there static electricity building up on the surface of the screen ? Is it with / without conductive tape connecting the film to the chassis ?

yes it is, i can feel those tipical noises from static electricity when i put my hand close to the screen and also there is dust particles attached to the screen everyday due to the static electricity i guess.

i tried to attach the remaining original conductive material to the polarized with some standart transparent tape glue and had the feeling that it helped to make the screen less static bulider, but it might be just a placebo.

also im not an expert on this and that metod might be useless, or a car polarizer like the one i use cannot prevent static electricity, so i have to use a Ultra Fine Microfiber Glass Cleaning to clean the screen surface regulary.

here are some pics of the screen without bezels and the screen not cleaned yet today, those pictures show how much dust the screen static E trends to collect, the borders of the screen have dust collected for about a year since the polarized was installed, but the remainin screen dust looks more dramatic on those photos than it is in reality, specially when the monitor is working.

that dust is not much noticeable unless i left the screen unclean for many days.


esquinas.jpg screen dust.jpgconductive tape.jpg
 
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etienne51

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Ok I ordered the Delock adapter from Jakob.de. Shipping to France, but with my address in Reunion. I do that all the time on places like eBay, it works great, except when the seller uses a software with address verification. Then they just tell me my address is not valid, despite the fact that it just works that way.
So I'll see how it goes. If they can't ship to the address I provided, I'll just give them a real forwarding address in France.
 

Strat_84

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yes it is, i can feel those tipical noises from static electricity when i put my hand close to the screen and also there is dust particles attached to the screen everyday due to the static electricity i guess.

i tried to attach the remaining original conductive material to the polarized with some standart transparent tape glue and had the feeling that it helped to make the screen less static bulider, but it might be just a placebo.

also im not an expert on this and that metod might be useless, or a car polarizer like the one i use cannot prevent static electricity, so i have to use a Ultra Fine Microfiber Glass Cleaning to clean the screen surface regulary.

here are some pics of the screen without bezels and the screen not cleaned yet today, those pictures show how much dust the screen static E trends to collect, the borders of the screen have dust collected for about a year since the polarized was installed, but the remainin screen dust looks more dramatic on those photos than it is in reality, specially when the monitor is working.

that dust is not much noticeable unless i left the screen unclean for many days.
OK, thanks !

You may try to attach again the green/yellow duct tape that was stuck on the sides though, that was the conductive material linking the film to the chassis (it has a copper layer). I don't think the grey tape is conductive. But it is possible nothing can be done against static electricity unless the film has some electric conductivity and built-in connections for the conductive tape. That's what I'd like to be sure about to know if a non-conductive film may be an acceptable downgrade or not.

I'm still working on the replacement film issue but it's pretty hard. Companies able to manufacture a film as complex as the original one do not seem to be many, they are not always easy to find, and I've had few answers to my requests or pretty unprofessionnal ones. I'm afraid most can only be contacted through sales departments, which are crowded with assholes who just do not care at all about a customer unless he means significant profit for little or no effort.
 

XoR_

[H]ard|Gawd
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Polarizer which I put on my FW900 helped with static charge a lot and eliminating the issue for me.
Not sure how it compare to original film and probably it is worse in this regard but still much much better than no film at all where I could feel static charge all the time.
 

3dfan

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Strat_84

i don´t remember this monitor had any green - yellow duct tape on the sides, and if it had any, does not exist anymore, the gray is conductive, i tested with multimeter and has continuity.

however is not that dramatic for me not having a perfect antistatic screen anymore, just a regular cleaning with the Ultra Fine Microfiber, and i definitelly prefer having the sreen with a car polarizer even if its a bit darker than the original and is not anti electrostatic. than using the monitor without any film.

as you said, it seems really difficult to find a film with same features as the original and probably will be very expensive if you find it.

a polarized film car is a cheap solution and you can easy remove the polarized film if you dont like it . the hard part form me here was to find someone skilled to install it as flawless as posible with minimal bubbles posible.

but if you are good at that part, you can give it a try while you find the ideal one if you want.
 

Strat_84

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Well, on the FW900 I disassembled, there were 2 grey tapes on the top/bottom and 4 yellow/green tapes, 2 on right and 2 on left, each one connecting the chassis to a conductive pad part of the film.

I'm not resigning myself to use a polarizer sheet. I understand some use that and like the result, but it cannot be an acceptable solution due to transmittance limitations (maximum 42-43% vs 66% of the original film). The screen is simply not designed to provide a 50% increase in brightness for the same result, it cannot be color calibrated in such conditions and the excessive load means a decreased sharpness.

But it is interesting to know what has happened with a film that isn't supposed to match conductivity requirements and/or isn't grounded through conductive pads. Conductive pads may be a major manufacturing difficulty, if a film could still be grounded effectively enough without them, that's an important information.
 

spacediver

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it can be color calibrated in those conditions. But you're correct that the reduced transmittance will require the guns to produce a higher beam current, which has drawbacks.
 

3dfan

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i have realized that the static building on the screen only occurs when the monitor is recenlty turned on or off and it last about 5 minutes, then you dont feel the spikes when you touch the polarized with the fingers or things like a piece of paper attaching to it anymore.


the monitor model i use was manufactured in 2003, thats what is said in the information screen and also there is sticker inside of the chasis thats says april 2003...maybe sony decided not to use that colored tapes on later models? i really dont remember seeing those.

about the transmittance limitations and that stuff, can be matter of personal tastes, i am satisfied with the luminance, sharpness and black levels with the polarized, cannot speak about hardware calibration with polarized since i have never done that.
 

master noran

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I grabbed a sunix 3000 mini dp variant but having issues getting a good looking 1920x1200 85hz image up

how are you guys adding custom resolutions? I added 1920x1200 85hz but left the timings section alone and the image hardly fills up half the screen and not sharp at all.
 

Aktan

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I grabbed a sunix 3000 mini dp variant but having issues getting a good looking 1920x1200 85hz image up

how are you guys adding custom resolutions? I added 1920x1200 85hz but left the timings section alone and the image hardly fills up half the screen and not sharp at all.

What GPU do you have? I think CRU works for both AMD and NVidia, but also both AMD and NVidia has the custom resolution option somewhere in their settings.

I don't know how you added the resolution, but it should most likely be CVT timing. Make sure it's that. Also, for me, the refresh rate that was stable was when it is divisible by 10, so like 60 Hz, 70 Hz, 80 Hz, 90 Hz...
 
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XoR_

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CRTs have very high gamma in lower voltage end compared to pure power function.
Here is the example of some old calibration (target was 6500K, gamma 2.4, monitor obviously was set in OSD to some colder white point, probably around 7200-7500K)
Znw2pY9.jpg

Notice how much dark tones needed to be corrected. This typical to all CRTs, especially when you set black level to be better than modern LCDs.
From what I remember polarizer made this dip much smaller and correction more linear. I could also increase brightness (black level) reducing this dip even more. Which matters because you cannot really correct gamma with LUT in games or when using it for consoles.

Maximum brightness of course was completely butchered. From "my eyes hurt" (closer to 300cd/m2, definitely brighter than 250cd/m2) in the point increasing contrast made image very blurry to something closer to 100cd/m2 - which is fine for normal usage but obviously quite demanding for guns, near its operational limits. Sharpness was also reduced, mostly due to need for higher contrast which decrease sharpness on CRTs.

After putting polarizer I could have ambient light in room (normal light on the roof, not fancy ambient lamp behind monitor!) without any issues with it impacting black level, it did in fact increase perceived contrast ratio like it does on LCDs. It also reduced glare, making it only CRT I ever saw without obvious glare.

So as long as FW900 have some life left and priority is image quality this is the mod to do. I would not go as far as to recommend people to rip original unscratched coating to do it. Though image quality is much better with polarizer imho.

I myself do not care monitors life span. If it dies it dies.
Buddha taught that all things are impermanent, especially when overclocked and modded and we should just accept it and overclock everything and do as much modding as possible and just replace failed things :coffee:

YRXVOGS.jpg


BTW @ALL

Do any these new fancy DP-VGA converters support 10bit to allow bandingless gamma correction on Nvidia cards? (Radeons do dithering and never produce banding so it doesn't really matter in this case)
 
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spacediver

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BTW @ALL
Do any these new fancy DP-VGA converters support 10bit to allow bandingless gamma correction on Nvidia cards? (Radeons do dithering and never produce banding so it doesn't really matter in this case)

I would very much like to know this!
 
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