24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by mathesar, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. pr0ton

    pr0ton n00bie

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    I tried all ways and playing with the cable and I have another situation now: all resolutions up to ~240MHz pixelclock are stable, 1920x1200@73Hz for instance. Everything higher doesn't output anything on the FW900 though the FW900's LED turns green. Can it be it's only functioning with one HBR2 lane now?

    When I use a stable resolution and I move the Delock adapter at the back of the PC now and then it loses connection, not a reliable connection for sure (whether it's the Delock or GPU).

    Oh, and I probably can lend a HD6970 which has DP1.2. But I read online that one is also a troublemaker in combination with DP1.2. Not so interested to pay money for a newer AMD card now since the mining business made the GPU prices go sky-high. Although I would really like to return to AMD as soon as possible.
     
  2. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    No,one lane HBR2 is 180 MHz (like two HBR),with 240 MHz two HBR2 lanes are active.
    So,you have got different results,from unstable under 180 to stable up to 340,now stable up to 240 and if you touch the connector it changes.
    You can try with the 6970,but at this point i would change the adapter.
     
  3. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Yes, I did too, a couple days ago!

    I bought mine from another store, but it was the only one in stock. The page is gone now.
    https://www.yakodo.de/Delock-Adapter-Displayport-12-Stecker-VGA-Buchse-schwarz_2?ref=gz
    I can't wait for a local store to have it, I'm from Reunion Island, I have to import it.

    So the package has been shipped, but I have no idea when I'll get it.

    I read all the issues pr0ton has been dealing with, I'll be able to test both 1080 and 980M cards, the laptop with the 980M has DisplayPort 1.2, so if things work as they should, I should get the full bandwidth.
    I'll keep you posted as soon as I receive the package. Hope it won't take too long.
     
  4. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    Good to know,i remember yakodo,wow only one in stock.
    I remember even Amazon UK with one in stock
    Jacob.de has 66 in stock and shipments out of Germany cost little
    Well 1080 and 980,a good test platform.
     
  5. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

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    Any way to show us a video? I know that all of my GDM monitors' image size shrank a little during warmup.
     
  6. lampman

    lampman n00bie

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    I am moving and I want to sell my FW900 before I go.
    It has some issues:
    • I removed the anti-glare coating 4 years ago as it was scratched up
    • 1920x1200@85 is strongly warped. 1920x1200@75 looks great still.
    • takes about 5 minutes to warm up to the correct contrast and black levels
    • image jumps around when the monitor is turned on when the air is humid. jumping takes longer to stop when the air is more humid

    you can see the work I've done to it on page 262 of this thread. I have done nothing afterwards except run the image restore function a few times.
    the image links no longer work but here is the full set of images from page 262: https://mega.nz/#F!AswkVIzD!Cp1eN47hBmwghQV8yfQ0Bg
    bezels are all clean, minimum scratches to the outside. no scratches on the screen. included is the
    be honest, how much would you pay for such a monitor? note that I would do local pickup only in Brooklyn, NY. I wouldn't have the patience to pack it and ship it.
     
  7. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    How many hours approximately?
     
  8. lampman

    lampman n00bie

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    how do I check?
    It's been my main monitor for maybe 10 years. So probably a lot.
     
  9. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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  10. lampman

    lampman n00bie

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    I've seen that too. honestly I don't think mine is as good as his $500 examples, but is much better than his $100 one. I cannot gauge the repairability of my problem and I cannot test the BNC connection. I have never used it.
    I think $300 would be reasonable for mine. That's how much I got it for, shipped, back when ebay had dozens to chose from.
     
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  11. jehab

    jehab n00bie

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    Hi, I have a Dell D2026T-HS (mfg. July '97) that I would like to calibrate with WinDAS. I believe it should work as it is a Sony GDM line Trinitron tube (equivalent Sony monitor is the GDM-20SE2T) and has the serial in pins which I have connected with the appropriate cable. I am using WinDAS Version 1.690.126. In the Model Sel this model is not shown, which prevents me from proceeding. Is there somewhere I can add the data of this monitor to WinDAS or use a version of WinDAS that supports this monitor?

    Dell spec sheet for this monitor: https://web.archive.org/web/20010725053521/http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/dta/97788/00000001.htm
     
  12. UnrulyCactus

    UnrulyCactus n00bie

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    Wow. It's been sooo long since I've even used a CRT. Is it just me or do they look fantastic?
     
  13. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    I love what I read in that description:
    The 2nd purpose of the anti-reflection layer is precisely to improve contrast you goddam idiotic monkey ... :facepalm:

    edit: About the price subject it's really difficult to define properly in my opinion.
    - On the one hand you'll find people getting rid of the screens for almost nothing because they simply think it's not worth anything in front of a LCD
    - On the other hand you'll find a few people aware of the qualities of such displays, and their relative scarcity, and they'll severely overprice them, not taking into account devices age and start to develop problems that require some maintenance to keep them in a top operating condition.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  14. Chief Blur Buster

    Chief Blur Buster Owner of BlurBusters

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    Actually, it was tested to be double-edged sword.
    There were contrast tests done during removal of anti-glare films on certain Korean LCDs.

    --> For fully lit rooms, anti-glare layers increased contrast.
    --> For completely dark rooms, anti-glare layers decreased contrast

    It is precisely why some manufacturers sold certain monitors (QNX QX2710) with a choice: with versus without antiglare.

    Bad ones even had a faint 'halo glow' effect caused by internal diffusion to nearby pixels. THere were some really huge macro zooms that really demonstrated the increased-contrast-in-dark-room effect. I forgot which site published these images, but it was around 2013 or 2014 or thereabouts. But there was a clear double-edged-sword effect. I don't know if this applies to the CRT FW-900 antiglare too, or was a failed attempt (or not), but there are pros/cons -- a "double-edge sword" effect in a manner of speaking -- that depends on whether you're using that display in a dark cave or an office room.
     
  15. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    Anti-reflection films on CRTs are quite complex films with multiple purposes (reduce outside AND inside reflections, increase contrast by decreasing transmittance, fix color imbalances of phosphors, EMI shielding and so on). They can't really be compared to what is found on LCDs.

    Also, don't mix up anti-reflective and anti-glare films, these are different films. Anti-reflective ones just prevent reflections. Anti-glare ones diffuse the light so that you can't see a consistent picture reflected on the surface, but it still reflects the same amount of light.
     
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  16. Meeho

    Meeho 2[H]4U

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    Still the best all around PC display technology.
     
  17. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    How's your FW900 search going by the way? If I were nearer the Canadian border I wouldn't mind hauling one up to you for science.
     
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  18. donhonk

    donhonk n00bie

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    So I have a Viewsonic P225FB which isnt quite the FW900 I wanted but I did get this for free! So, I wanna use my laptop with it which has USB Type C and some HDMI 2.0 I think. Any converters that would let me drive 1920x1440 at 75hz which is the res I wanna use. This Tendak converter I got will not do anything above 1280x1024 sadly
     
  19. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Have you played around with Custom Resolution Utility? That resolution sounds super low even for a generic converter.
     
  20. donhonk

    donhonk n00bie

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    I can give it a shot? It does 1080p / 16:9 stuff just fine but isnt even liking 1600x1200
     
  21. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Yeah, just try it out. You also want to make sure you add the HDMI.dat from the download page for CRU. That prevents your adapter from being detected as DVI single-link/HDMI 1.4, which maxes out at 1920x1200@60hz.

    But yeah, if you still find yourself limited, there is a new adapter than can go up to 340mhz, you'll see it discussed on previous pages. I think it's made by a company called DeLock? Not sure where to buy it, it's pretty new.

    Also, for close to 280mHz, there's the VCOM displayport adapter we've been discussing in this thread, and I've hit close to 280mhz clock on the HD Fury Nano GX.
     
  22. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    What is the exact model of the laptop?
     
  23. donhonk

    donhonk n00bie

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    Its the Razer Blade 2016, I'll try out those ideas btw!
     
  24. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    From what i've seen,the USB-C output isn't connected to the master GPU,but to the integrated one (CPU)
    But there is the possibility to play a game in which the master GPU does the rendering and the output goes through the integrated one (i don't know if it is compatible with all software),so you can use a USB-C to VGA adapter for output a game to the CRT.
    Here: https://insider.razerzone.com/index...-2016-displayport-thank-to-thunderbolt.17259/
    The only USB-C to VGA adapters i know that can do the resolution you want are:
    Delock 62796 http://www.delock.de/produkte/1096_USB-Type-C-/62796/merkmale.html
    Plugable http://plugable.com/products/usbc-vga/
    The other output of your laptop is HDMI 2.0,but i don't know converters for that resolution (maybe HDFURY 3 and 4,but they cost much)
     
  25. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Ok here I am again, with good and bad news.

    First with the good news, today I received my Delock 62967 adapter. It arrived quite fast, I was expecting to wait one more week to get it.

    Now for the bad news... The display can't even stay steady at 1920x1080@60Hz! In fact, I had to unplug/replug the thing many times to get it recognized by Windows, and when it finally was, it just couldn't output an image correctly to the CRT.

    My main LCD monitor uses DisplayPort 1.2, and it works perfectly fine at 2560x1440@165Hz on the same graphics card (the EVGA GTX1080 FTW). The thing is, the connector is a tight fit, it just doesn't move at all and it even has a locking mechanism. In comparison, the DP plug of the Delock adapter is loose, has no lock, probably the worst possible DP connector one can come up with.

    So, now I'm not saying this is the only issue with this adapter, but so far, it's the only thing preventing me from testing it further. So, no way I'm sending this adapter back... Let's take the tools and crack it open! See how it's made, and if the cable could be replaced easily or not.

    [​IMG]

    Ok, it was not exactly easy to open, but it's not glued... I applied pressure on the short sides with pliers, and fortunately it did not break. The white piece just popped out.

    [​IMG]

    Well, it's shielded... I guess that's a good thing. But they could have just made a grounded metal case instead of wrapping the electronics in adhesive copper foil, and then solder it to ground. But I guess that's a cheap way to achieve the same thing, and technically it should work okay I guess, for what it is.

    [​IMG]

    Underneath the copper, the electronics is wrapped in... masking tape?! Well, thinking about it, it isolates the circuit from the copper foil. Okay fine. Let's keep going.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Finally, here we can see the PCB.

    Great news, the wires are simply connected on small pads, well spaced from each other. They are individually separated by a piece of plastic with grooves for each cable, and then covered by a blob of glue stick on both sides (fortunately, easy to remove).

    Now a close up on the wires.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    We can clearly see the converter IC here. So, it's a Analogix ANX9847, which is the same one used in USB Type C converters (Delock 62796).

    http://www.delock.de/produkt/62796/pdf.html?sprache=en

    These adapters are rated at 2560x1600@60Hz, the same as the ANX6212 we have been talking about before, and the modified ANX9833. I can't find any info on these ANX9847 though.

    The circuit looks incredibly simple, the Analogix IC clearly does everything here.

    Ok, now that I know I definately can replace the DisplayPort cable and connector, time to open the connector and check the color coding of each wire, see which wire goes where.

    [​IMG]

    This time I just butchered the connector... it's molded and no way I can dismantle it in a clean way. This connector is going to the trash anyway.

    [​IMG]

    Ok here it is. Now a close up on the wires.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Well, that's it for now.

    Sadly I don't have a spare DisplayPort cable at hand, so I'll have to buy good quality one, cut it and solder the wires on the PCB.

    Another way to do it would be to simply put a DisplayPort connector on the board, but it simply wasn't designed for that, the PCB pads are not organised and spaced correctly for that. Doing so would require designing a PCB from scratch. Having the ANX9847 datasheet would help a lot for that.
     
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  26. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    Thank you for this awesome write-up and very clear photos!
     
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  27. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    Oh shit!
    Thank you for the detailed report.
    So,after you have looked inside,what do you think it is?
    Only the shit connector?
    Looking inside both the DP connector of the LCD monitor and that of the adapter,did you see differences? (space between pins and connector,ecc..)
    How are the cable and the welds?
    Have you tested it on both 980 and 1080?
    Is the VGA connector at least good?
    Here you can read online the datasheet (ANX9837 and ANX9847 datasheets are identical)

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&u=https://wenku.baidu.com/view/21a3e3a14b35eefdc8d333f3.html?re=view&edit-text=

    Try to see if they have forgotten some components.
    My first sample connector is solid and it has a locking mechanism with a push button
    I must contact Delock
    How many other users have ordered the adapter?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  28. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    So that's a 2nd people with a loose DP connector apparently.

    There might also be an issue with the wire soldering to the DP connector. The 10th picture shows it is handmade and the guy struggled making clean work, there's even melted plastic.
     
  29. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    I'd say the board itself looks quite ok, nothing seems wrong with it from what I can see. Thank you for the link, I have no idea how you found this, but well done!

    So I read the datasheet, I'm not sure they exactly followed every single design recommendations, but for the most important ones it seems to me like they did a good job. I did not check low level things like the components values and things like that, I assume it should be fine.

    There are quite a few parts on the VGA side of things, for signal filtering, impedance matching, proper terminaison to avoid signal reflection... All the component values are stated on the datasheet, I didn't check that. When I'll get the adapter to work again, I'll use the only high quality VGA cable I have to connect it to the monitor. I'll visually check the precision of the display, and look for ghosting. If there are no issues there, I guess the VGA circuit is just fine. If not, I guess I'll have to dig a bit deeper...

    On the DP side of things, there is not much to say. The wiring is indeed symmetrical for the most part which is what's recommanded for high speed differential pairs like these. The length of each pair is not identical though, but since they are really short here anyway, I'm not sure it matters much in this case. Better isolation between the pairs might be a good idea as well.

    Do not take what I say for absolute truth, I've never worked with high speed digital or analog circuits before. I just know what's recommanded, and what's written in the datasheet. I can be wrong!

    Anyway, right now, I think the real issue is the DisplayPort connector. Sadly I managed to break the connector itself while handling it. But that's fine, like I said I won't keep it anyway. I looked for a DisplayPort 1.2 cable at the local stores, they only have 1.1. I look somewhere else tomorrow, and maybe I'll just get a 1.1 cable, I'm not sure it matters over really short distances... I mean, as long as it has all the wires in it. If anyone knows about that, please let me know.

    The connector itself seems to be wired more or less fine. They indeed soldered all the wires by hand, put too much solder, and burned the plastic shell of the connector. One blob of solder is almost touching the grounded outer shell of the connector, but it's not making contact. Overall, the solder joints seems to be fine, so this should not be a problem.

    From what I can tell, the VGA connector is ok, all pins makes good contact with the VGA cable.
     
  30. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    Thank you again for the useful informations.
    Looking the male connector of the adapter,how much space is between a pin row and the other?
    In this photo is 0.80mm (this is the female connector): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:DisplayPort_(connector).PNG
    In picture 5 and 7 i see good wire soldering and the PCB seems good,but in picture 6 it's very bad,the red wire seems doesn't touch the pad and make contact only with solder.
    About the Displayport cable,there is only one type and if done well it must be able to support all DP modes.
    1.1-1.2 cables are only marketing bullshit,look here
    https://www.displayport.org/cables/how-to-choose-a-displayport-cable-and-not-get-a-bad-one/
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  31. danny_discus

    danny_discus Gawd

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    Anyone from here from Europe willing to send one to the US?
     
  32. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    IMO it's better to wait for issues to be confirmed/fixed before trying something like that. It's only an early disponibility so far, mainly in Germany. ;)
     
  33. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    I agree
    Well at least the 7 wires with good solder on picture 7 are the most important.
    They are the two main lanes,AUX channel and the hotplug(violet wire)
    To the other side there is the main power(Red wire) and GND, i don't see which wire is connected on pin 5
    If all on the PCB is good then it should be only the shit male connector that doesn't make good contact with pins on graphic card.
    Meanwhile I contacted Delock to explain the problem
     
  34. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    The soldering on pic 6 looks ugly indeed, but the contact is just as rock solid as the others. There is no issue at all here.

    This is my monitor connector. It's Amphenol branded, so I imagine it would be hard to get a better quality one.

    [​IMG]

    As I said, I broke the Delock connector, so this is not really a comparison...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here is the interesting part.

    [​IMG]

    The picture you sent me is the female connector on the graphics card. On the cable side, I have about 1.4mm of gap. Both my monitor and the Delock adapter seems to have the same spacing.

    I think the issue might be with the pins, and with the outer shape of the connector. The pins on the Amphenol connector seems a lot beefier, and the spacing between the two rows is a bit shorter as well.

    Allright for the 1.1 / 1.2 cables. I'll get a cable today, and see what I can do.
     
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  35. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    On the other side, the red wire is indeed power, the rest is GND. On pin 5 you have the braid of the cable. It's a bit hard to see on the photo I took.
     
  36. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Ok, work to do later today.

    [​IMG]

    This is a DisplayPort cable a gave to a friend months ago, but he switched to DVI Dual Link, so I'll be using this cable.

    Fortunately, the shell of the connectors are just clipped in place. It was very easy to open the connectors and check the colors of each wire.

    [​IMG]

    I'll just remove the glue on the solders, so I can check for continuity before soldering each wire on the Delock PCB, just to make sure I'm not using the wrong wire. It won't do a thing to the connector.

    [​IMG]

    This cable has been working just fine for a 144Hz display, the cable is rated for DP1.2, the connectors have a locking mechanish. So it should work fine here, as long as the circuit of the adapter is indeed good.

    Again, for comparison purposes, this is a closer look at the pins.

    [​IMG]
     
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  37. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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    Hopefully they make some kind of revision, because atm it looks quite messy.
     
  38. etienne51

    etienne51 [H]Lite

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    Oh my god...

    [​IMG]

    After hours of struggling...

    [​IMG]
    (Click for full resolution)

    IT'S ALIVEEEE !!!! WOW. It's been years I've been waiting for an adapter finally cappable of doing that!

    (If you're wondering, yes, above the screen it's local time... I will definately get some sleep now.)

    [​IMG]

    Oh, and it definately does 1920x1200@96 as it was already confirmed before, which is probably the resolution I'll be mostly using.

    Tomorrow I'll write more about the rather awful soldering job that I did. It is a mess, but it is a working mess. And as you can see, now it works as intended...

    A lot more details coming tomorrow....

    Oh and by the way, my monitor lost focus once today... Hell... I thought it was okay now, since it has been for a while. It seems to happen once in a while. I'm going to need a new flyback (or entire board) in the months to come I guess.
     
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  39. Strat_84

    Strat_84 Limp Gawd

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    Nice one !

    (and about the out of focus problem, you'll probably fix that with a D board because the problem comes from something somewhere on it, but I'm pretty sure blaming the flyback for it is a blatant mistake. I'm still working on the electronics of my GDM-5410, maybe more answers to come in the next months. ;) )
     
  40. Derupter

    Derupter n00bie

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    Well done!
    Same result as mine sample 2304x1440 71 Hz 336.14 MHz with CVT
    Did you tried 72 Hz? It's 341.10 MHz and my sample is unstable.
    Did you find the limit? My sample limit is from 340.3 to 340.5,after that it starts noise on windows borders,near 341 it starts to lost sync,after 341.5 black screen,at 339-340 it's perfect.
    Reducing Front and Back porch i tested 74 Hz,but it can do more.
    2048x1536 75Hz and 1920x1440 85Hz need CVT timings,with GTF they are unstable because pixel clock go over 340 MHz (GTF is used by default with these resolutions)
    I have some questions for you,i have to do a report to Delock and i try to collect informations.
    In the picture 10 that mess is normal? I mean all the DP plug are like that? How were the solders on the new cable?
    Did you measure the continuity between the pins of the old connector and the wires?
    If you still have the old connector,can you make if possible a photo like the third of your post 15194,but with the connectors in parallel side by side,i want to see crearly the differences between the rows of pins.
    In the link i gave you about DP cables (displayport.org) there is an exception,RBR cables,economic and long cables usually used for projectors,i hope they did not use it,is there anything written on the old cable?