24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

[Derupter]

I did some test with my converter (ANX9833)
Two CRT,one on internal dac,one on adapter
I used SMTT 2.0,it works at thousand of FPS with precision event timer,without sync,fullscreen mode DX10
Max lag 5ms,min lag 1ms,average lag 3ms
With software used by amlett,i have seen from 0ms to 10ms at 100Hz and 0ms to 15ms at 60Hz

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Some update on the projector. We've decided to hang it from the ceiling (yay!). Unfortunately, both projectors have the wrong type of neck boards for the functional projector. There were two revisions - the old revision, and the new revision. I originally had (between the two projectors), one old-style neckboard and five new-style neck boards. Since the non-functional projector cannot be turned on, I don't know if it's compatible with the new-style or not. The functional projector needs the old style neckboards. It will still show an image, but there is image distortion when you turn up the Brightness (black level) past 35 out of 100. I have since procured one other old-style neckboard from Curt Palme, and I'm waiting on another one to arrive from him as well.

After I install the final neckboard, I will have a fully functional Sony G70 projector. Today, my wife and I will be taking our measurements. We will be using unistrut, and will hang the projector from the ceiling joists. I think we will probably span three or four joists so that we can get some playroom in moving the projector back and forth.

Long term goals are:

- Get silver screen material for even brighter picture
- Make an even bigger screen
- Procure Moome HDMI card for projector

And that's it. I will also save some money as well so that I can have some reserve for failed parts that cannot be directly swapped using the parts projector. Power supply (PA board) is the big one, and so is the focus board. I will probably also look into selling off some of the other parts as well, like CRT's, for cheap. Sorry it's not much of an update. Both my wife and I are itching to have this set up. We're due for our second child in two months now....!

 

[amlett]

I did some test with my converter (ANX9833)
Two CRT,one on internal dac,one on adapter
I used SMTT 2.0,it works at thousand of FPS with precision event timer,without sync,fullscreen mode DX10
Max lag 5ms,min lag 1ms,average lag 3ms
With software used by amlett,i have seen from 0ms to 10ms at 100Hz and 0ms to 15ms at 60Hz

good to know. I'll try to get a personal use license next week when I get back home and do some testing with both CRTs again. Thanks for the input.

 

[flod]

yea smtt is probably far better

 

[XoR_]

The only viable measurement would be to use DP splitter instead GPU cloning and test against lag-less DP adapter.
Does this adapter have any scaling functionality?

As for polarizer the best would be to buy polarizer without adhesive and special UV hardened glue.

Personally I have first polarizer which I put on my FW900 which had adhesive on it and it is far from being perfect. Flaws it have are not very visible during gaming and I am lazy so it is as it is for now. I rather have badly put polarizer than no polarizer at all because without it black level is pretty bad even in perfect pitch black room.

Generally I consider buying Acer XB270HU and ditching FW900 because I moved out from my home and transporting FW900 doesn't seem all that fun or safe for its health. I will keep it where it is as it looks awesome on big desk and use it for things like movies when I am there. Also perspective of spending hundreds of bucks on new HDFury just to not need to buy old generation GPU is not fun at all.

 

[amlett]

Thanks for the input XoR.

Do you mean one like this?
Circular Polarizer 500x1000mm - 3Dlens.com

Seeing how the analogix adapter works I'm not planning waiting for the HDfury anymore. I'll try to test the input lag this week with SMTT 2.0 tool, but even if it has those 20ms I measured with thie first tests, I'm fine with it as it still being far better in IQ than any other monitor aviable right now.

 

[3dfan]

Personally I have first polarizer which I put on my FW900 which had adhesive on it and it is far from being perfect. Flaws it have are not very visible during gaming and I am lazy so it is as it is for now. I rather have badly put polarizer than no polarizer at all because without it black level is pretty bad even in perfect pitch black room.

thank you XoR, did you had bubble leftovers when you installed your adhesive polarized? can you please tell how did you install yours?

 

[haka3l]

Ive tested my setup using smtt2 and that flatpanel tool is worthless On flatpanel i have exactly 30ms of inputlag everytime so it seems that this is vsync problem mentioned and on smtt2 it's fine 5-10ms on that iiyama like in reviews, sometimes a bit more.There is free license on their site to get at the moment.

 

[XoR_]

Yes there are bubbles. It would be probably possible to do without bubbles using polarizer with adhesive with wide roller or generally if I got it right on first try. I got big misalignment and needed to remove polarizer and apply again which because it have glue didn't went all that well.

Imho with UV hardened glue and adhesive-less polarizer it should be very easy procedure.
This polarizer should be fine. Circular polarizer have even better glare reduction than linear.

 

[amlett]

Ive tested my setup using smtt2 and that flatpanel tool is worthless On flatpanel i have exactly 30ms of inputlag everytime so it seems that this is vsync problem mentioned and on smtt2 it's fine 5-10ms on that iiyama like in reviews, sometimes a bit more.There is free license on their site to get at the moment.

great. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

 

[Strat_84]

Hello everyone !

I'm jumping in, I just put my hands on 3 FW900. All have issues though, but I'd like to try restoring them to their former glory, at least if it is possible.

- One seems to work flawlessly and only requires minor adjustments, but the anti-glare coating is quite badly damaged. Interesting that the coating replacement subject is poping out right now because that's exactly what I need. Did anyone manage to get informations about the original coating for a proper replacement ?

- Another one has display issues probably due to an electronic failure. According to a quick observation, the horizontal convergence is bad, the horizontal focus is a bit unstable, and the picture seems to "vibrate" horizontally. Vertically all seems fine. I don't know about convergence, but the previous owner told me the vibration/focus issue stopped when the screen was hot.
I've yet to observe all this more in detail and investigate further, but does this ring a bell to anyone ? I'd think about a problem with a filtering capacitor that lost some of its capacitance with old age and recovers it with temperature.

- The last one was partially disassembled, I have to put back everything in place to see myself, but according to the previous owner the screen was too bright and there was a spark gap being activated on the D board.

I'd be grateful for any help.


Note: I'm aware putting his hands in such device can be dangerous, so no need to remind the usual warnings. I actually have disassembled a couple of CRTs before.

 

[master noran]

Note: I'm aware putting his hands in such device can be dangerous, so no need to remind the usual warnings. I actually have disassembled a couple of CRTs before.

Nice score

I've noticed these and most other sony crt's like the pvm series etc discharge really quickly

 

[Strat_84]

Well, a little update about the last one. This is going to be a tough one, because I haven't only to deal with electronics, but also with human stupidity ...

The guy had put the plastic cover on, and given me the screws and several shield plates. But he forgot to tell one of these supported the D board. It wasn't secured, and may have been hitting the tube during the transport ... I've also discovered he's been messing with one of the ICs on the S board, for God knows which reason.

The actual result is:
- the monitor is detected by the computer
- it powers up, green light, degauss sound
- all three filaments at the end of the tube are glowing orange so I think the tube is safe
- but the screen is almost black. All I've been able to see is a couple of faint green artifacts.
- I managed to display the current frequencies (107 Khz/85hz) when trying to use the OSD , still faint green but that's the only thing I got

Puzzling. :/

Edit: Figured it out. Ultra low luminosity and green tint. Still can't understand how he achieved that to cancel it.

 

[amlett]

No luck with the SMTT trial license. The key exired on Febraury. I've sent an email asking for a license, but no response. If they don't sell licenses any more, I'm afraid I can't test the adapter with this tool

 

[Derupter]

You can use the free private license key,it's expired in February but you can change the date in windows to 1 February and it works (or you can use RunAsDate utility from Nirsoft)

 

[amlett]

ok. I'll try that this evening. Thanks

 

[amlett]

I did the test with smtt 2.0. In both cases (changing the adapter between crts) is 9-10 ms.

85hz refresh at 1280x1024



By the way, analogix has told me that adapters will be in production in about 4-6 weeks

 

[Derupter]

Judging by the pic your shutter speed is too slow,did you see dark and bright areas on pics like in the manual?
Have you read the manual for a correct setup?
Try this:
put your screens at 100Hz with 10 lines of text (calculate text size with vertical resolution / 20)
if you want to try 85Hz with 12 lines of text (calculate text size with vertical resolution / 24)
Try to capture a video with your phone at high FPS (i had good results with 120 FPS slow motion video with a G3)
If you have problem reading values on video change background color to black
Check video frame by frame

 

[amlett]

ok. I'll check that later

 

[rabidz7]

Can you post a screenshot of the 1600x1000 settings in Nv control panel for 100Hz??

I haven't got 1600x1200@100hz. It's 1600x1000 (200 pixels less). Just used Nvidia control panel.

------------------------------------------

By the way, analogix has sent me an adaptor for testing. It should arrive next week (Tuesday o so). I'll post the results.

 

[flod]

I did the test with smtt 2.0. In both cases (changing the adapter between crts) is 9-10 ms.

85hz refresh at 1280x1024

View attachment 5552

By the way, analogix has told me that adapters will be in production in about 4-6 weeks

nice, thanks.

as Derupter mentioned, try to use a faster shutter time. not sure what camera you're using but there should be some way to force it.

but take a similar picture with the camera upside down. since the monitors are in opposite diagonal corners, rolling shutter is almost guaranteed to affect things.
taking the average with value from the upside down picture will give an unbiased estimate for the latency difference.

 

[amlett]

Can you post a screenshot of the 1600x1000 settings in Nv control panel for 100Hz??

View attachment 5584

nice, thanks.

as Derupter mentioned, try to use a faster shutter time. not sure what camera you're using but there should be some way to force it.

but take a similar picture with the camera upside down. since the monitors are in opposite diagonal corners, rolling shutter is almost guaranteed to affect things.
taking the average with value from the upside down picture will give an unbiased estimate for the latency difference.

Here it is. 1024x768 85hz on both monitors. 12 lines.

First is with the FW900 on DVI and second the G200 on DVI. FW900 at the top on both pics.





Only have an S7 in sport shot.

 

[Derupter]

Have you tried with 120 FPS slow motion video?
S7 support that

 

[jbltecnicspro]

ok. I'll check that later

You may have answered this already - but is it HDCP compatible?

 

[amlett]

I tried slow motion but can't see it clear.

I haven't tested HDCP support. Don't have br

 

[jbltecnicspro]

I tried slow motion but can't see it clear.

I haven't tested HDCP support. Don't have br

Don't need it. If you have an Nvidia graphics card, the driver will tell you whether or not it's HDCP compatible.

 

[haka3l]

I tried slow motion but can't see it clear.

I haven't tested HDCP support. Don't have br

You can try to change the background and font color or size in smtt2, so it will be visible better in camera recording.

 

[flod]

in those images, the fw900 appears faster by
686-673=13ms
631-620=11ms

since you changed the monitor to which the adapter is connected for the two pictures, this means the adapter isn't the reason for the difference

it's completely due to rolling shutter; the camera pixels on the left and on the right do not correspond to the same periods in time. and that's why you get those diagonal lines.

 

[flod]

don't worry guys, no need for slow mo.
all you need is a crazy dude to draw some lines in the pictures

the adapter is slower by half a millisecond or something.

i can estimate more precisely if i get the vblank timings and a higher res picture

edit: never mind, i can't estimate more precisely because of how smtt works; it's only precise to 1ms. unless for instance i can find the exact scanline where a 3 turns into a 4

 

[amlett]

Thanks for the analysis Flod!

by the way. 85hz is the max refresh I'm able to get with both monitors in mirror.

Don't need it. If you have an Nvidia graphics card, the driver will tell you whether or not it's HDCP compatible.
View attachment 5600

I'll check it as soons as I get home from work. Never got into that option at NCP

UPDATE. That option doesnt exist on my NCP

 

[eztower]

So the new analogix adapter has no input lag compared to when using VGA or DVI-I output on a gfx card?

 

[Enhanced Interrogator]

Thanks for the analysis flod, the picture totally makes sense now.

So the new analogix adapter has no input lag compared to when using VGA or DVI-I output on a gfx card?

Exactly, it translates digital to analog in real time, no frame buffer.

 

[Petrasescu_Lucian]

The real issue is this adapter isn't a 400MHz RAMDAC one, so 2048x1536 80Hz on my Dell P1130 or 2048x1536 85Hz on my GDM-F520 will either not work or be very blurry

 

[Enhanced Interrogator]

The real issue is this adapter isn't a 400MHz RAMDAC one, so 2048x1536 80Hz on my Dell P1130 or 2048x1536 85Hz on my GDM-F520 will either not work or be very blurry

Yep, Amlett, is Analogix aware we want as high a pixel clock as possible? Maybe their engineers can try to squeeze out a little more performance before release?

 

[flod]

is it not possible for someone to make an adapter that uses whatever 400MHz chip graphics cards use?

 

[amlett]

I supose that having the chipset already manufactured and just having to flash the custom firmware is the reason they release this versión.

2058x1536 should be around 75hz with analogix adapter

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Projector is now hanging from the ceiling! Woohoo! Now the real work begins...

 

[spacediver]

oh, man, that is gorgeous. Was it a lot of work to mount it?

 

[jbltecnicspro]

oh, man, that is gorgeous. Was it a lot of work to mount it?

Yeah, took a weekend. But four men (including myself) hoisted it up in about three seconds! Haha. Amazing what work can get done with the right amount of man power. Of course, now the real work begins in setting it up.

 

[spacediver]

nice. You probably already know this, but you don't need bias lighting for a projector (hard to imagine how you'd set it up anyway). Darker the room, the better