24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

spacediver said:
ok, but when you and that other posted say "plastic", are you referring to the bezel? Or to something else? That other post doesn't make sense to me, when the poster refers to "factory plastic".
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I'm referring to the film over the glass where the AG coating is applied.
 
I was just seeing how nice this thing can play old school games. I do have other capable crt monitors that are 4:3 but this one is my nicest one. It's even nicer than the Sony BVM "D20F1U. From what I heard Sony used the chasis from the bvm for this monitor?
 
do all AG monitors have flat screen? I know there are SM monitors with flat screens(or maybe they're not actually flat, only flat outer screens?).

Also, I heard that AG have worse geometry than SM because the distance from tube is not the same or something...? Is this true?
 
There are curved AG tubes, but they are flat vertically. The GDM-W900, which is predecessor to the GDM-FW900, is a good example of a curved AG CRT. Flat tubes have different gun-screen distances on different parts of the screen. Electrons must go further to reach a corner than the center. This must be accounted for and corrected for proper geometry. AG, SM and SG tubes are all avaliable flat internally, curved internaly w/ flat face and curved inside and out.

AG=Aparture Grille
SM=Shadow Mask
SG=Slot Grille / Slot Mask
 
rabidz7 said:
There are curved AG tubes, but they are flat vertically. The GDM-W900, which is predecessor to the GDM-FW900, is a good example of a curved AG CRT. Flat tubes have different gun-screen distances on different parts of the screen. Electrons must go further to reach a corner than the center. This must be accounted for and corrected for proper geometry. AG, SM and SG tubes are all avaliable flat internally, curved internaly w/ flat face and curved inside and out.

AG=Aparture Grille
SM=Shadow Mask
SG=Slot Grille / Slot Mask
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so... AG tube with curved screen wouldn't have more geometry problems than curved SM tube?

But a flat AG will have worse geometry than curved SM because of the different gun distances, ay?

But then again, since SM doesn't have those damping wires like aperture grille does then the picture will spread when monitor is heated if I remember correctly...?
 
Klarion said:
so... AG tube with curved screen wouldn't have more geometry problems than curved SM tube?

But a flat AG will have worse geometry than curved SM because of the different gun distances, ay?

But then again, since SM doesn't have those damping wires like aperture grille does then the picture will spread when monitor is heated if I remember correctly...?
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You are correct.
 
Where can I buy a new polorizer film for my Nokia 445Pro, a 21" 4:3 and is there an install guide?
 
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Welp. Last FW900 down. I feel slightly suicidal. As per my prior recent post, which maybe i jinxed myself ( I never power them down if i didn't have too and only have they died on me upon powering them up ).
Power went out this week due to high winds. And upon powering her up. Boom, Pow, Click, Kaput.

She is on a battery backup as well as the rest of my system, so everything just powers down normally. So no surges to it ect.

Devastated really. There isn't a piece of crap LCD monitor made i care to throw 10 pennies at. I'm using a borrowed Tn and it is killing my eyes.

I do have a secondary for parts, though when it blew it blew big with smoke and sparks so not sure what might be useful as spare parts in it.

The one that just went out did a loud pop with white spot flashes on the screen and powered down. Upon trying to power it up, it just clicks and hisses and that gradually gets softer until it shuts down and the amber starts to blink. The self diagnostic does not work.

FML. I knew this day would come, but i was hoping for a few more good years out of her.

Now i have to find a cheap 16:10 something as a stop gap. Staring at this abysmal 16:9, and it's only slightly better than nothing at all, maybe not even..
 
tears_of_sadness.jpg
 
PCnerf said:
I was just seeing how nice this thing can play old school games. I do have other capable crt monitors that are 4:3 but this one is my nicest one. It's even nicer than the Sony BVM "D20F1U. From what I heard Sony used the chasis from the bvm for this monitor?
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Good to hear. I had plans on going BVM with my consoles but looks like I'll be rigging up an XRGB3 to my artisan.
 
So aiming to do some tests comparing BNC to VGA. Noticed something weird - when I have the BNC active, and then switch the cable to DVI (and changing from input 2 to 1), everything works fine. But the other way round doesn't work - screen is just black. If I switch from DVI to BNC and then reboot, it's fine.

Anyone else have similar experience?
 
@igsux3
For 4:3 gaming I would rather buy some high-end Diamondtron based monitor.
From what I saw they have better darker screens and better phosphors overall with better looking colors. No rising G2 issues, no warm-up and better longevity. Also high end models are slightly larger.

Recently I could buy 'Lacie Electron 22 Blue IV' for like $30 but had to pass it because I have too much CRT monitors. If not for LG 915ft+ that act as my FPGA experiments monitor I would buy this Lacie :( At least LG is smaller, weight less and is easier to handle. Still, this Lacie looked sweet. I would totally love to have 24" 16:10 Diamondtron CRT...

BTW1.
Napisz koniecznie co wyszło z tego dzwonienia, ewentualnie zakładania folii.
Nie wiem czy chciałoby mi się ruszać mój monitor z biurka ale jeśli wyjdzie super to kto wie.

BTW2. właśnie kupiłem dwa HP LP2480zx na allegro po 450zł sztuka. Mają jeszcze jeden (choć pewnie nie na długo bo zeszło już 6) i za tą kasę może być świetna okazja jeśli wszystko jest ok tak jak napisali, bez wad, bez rys, itp. Mam LG W2420R który mam ma ten sam panel i dlatego kupiłem aż dwa hapeki. LG kosztował używka 1000zł cztery lata temu. Imho najlepiej wydane 1000zł na sprzęt komputerowy w życiu i mój pierwszy LCD z którego jestem w pełnu zadowolony :)

@KG-Prime90
In your situation I would try to connect FW900 tube to complete electronics from other monitor such as 4:3 Trinitron.
Hell, if my FW900 die on me I will totally do just that even if it meant risking loosing good 4:3 monitor even if someone step in and say it won't work because bla bla bla but they didn't actually tried it :p

Either way I hope you will repair it of find someone to repair it. Or at least sell or give tubes away and not throw them away like many inconsiderate jerks do.

@spacediver
you need external EDID chip to keep monitor 'alive' in GPU card eyes
with my cheap EDID emulator made from I2C EEPROM I can have FW900 completely disconnected from GPU and it still thinks it have FW900 connected :)
 
XoR said:
spacediver[/b]
you need external EDID chip to keep monitor 'alive' in GPU card eyes
with my cheap EDID emulator made from I2C EEPROM I can have FW900 completely disconnected from GPU and it still thinks it have FW900 connected :)
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thanks that sounds promising. Is it simple to set up? Can you describe how everything is connected?
 
I did it by cutting DVI-I to VGA adapter and connecting DDC wires to I2C pins on DIP8 EEPROM chip. There are four cables sticking from this contraption: GND, +5V, SDA i SCL. It is powered up from USB and Sxx are used to program new EEPROM. I do it using Arduino and custom made sketch for it + program which I made for the purpose of generating part of sketch with actual EDID. It was designed to easily change display gamut when used with AMD cards. It is possible to export EDID with custom resolutions from CRU, edit gamut or not and use Arduino to program it once and that is basically it.

I did the whole thing in few hours from having the idea to making such device to having it working so it is rather crude looking. I planned DVI-A to 5xBNC cable with similar functionality but settled for using it with HDMI2VGA adapter which doesn't need any EDID or anything like that and connecting PC with already made adapter and VGA-VGA cable. Works fine for me :)

Electrical part is pretty simple and straightforward. Programming is a little bit trickier but here I have all the necessary code and can give you if you are interested :)

I have yet to try to program FW900 directly. Though EDID emulator have its advantages, one of which is the same thing that you need, keeping GPU fooled it have monitor connected.
 
Very cool, sounds like it would be a good learning project, but it's a bit advanced for me right now and I was hoping to start testing tomorrow. But thanks, I'll definitely let you know in future if I need that code :)
 
XoR said:
@igsux3
@KG-Prime90
In your situation I would try to connect FW900 tube to complete electronics from other monitor such as 4:3 Trinitron.
Hell, if my FW900 die on me I will totally do just that even if it meant risking loosing good 4:3 monitor even if someone step in and say it won't work because bla bla bla but they didn't actually tried it :p

Either way I hope you will repair it of find someone to repair it. Or at least sell or give tubes away and not throw them away like many inconsiderate jerks do.
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Since i have a spare for parts it's worth trying to fix if at all possible yeah, but i've never opened one up.
The first one died pretty hard with smoke and burning and sparks, not sure what burnt out or what's use able. I can solder ect, fix some stuff, but i've never messed with a monitor before so i have a lot of reading to do.

I think they basically both died the same way. I don't know why but over a decade owning these and living at different locations with different systems ect. Whenever i fire these things up from dead cold, they are very violent.

Anyway, if anyone has had something similar happen where all their monitor did was click and hiss repeatedly until it just shuts off ( no picture ) and figured out what it was, please let me know what it was and if it was feasibly fixable. Thanks.
 
XoR said:
@igsux3
For 4:3 gaming I would rather buy some high-end Diamondtron based monitor.
From what I saw they have better darker screens and better phosphors overall with better looking colors. No rising G2 issues, no warm-up and better longevity. Also high end models are slightly larger.
Click to expand...

The thing about these old monitors is that they can be a pain in the ass to find. If you already have this monitor then the Diamondtron isn't going to be a huge upgrade over this. Same with most of the other popular monitors like the Sony BVM, PVM, and NEC XM29 just to name a few. Trust me when I say that these monitors can be hard to find in good condition. There are only like 2-3 areas that have those monitors in plenty but, for the rest of the country be prepare to do some work.

There are some advantages with the widescreen monitors. Dreamcast, PS2, GC, and XBOX are all now considered retro consoles and all those systems support the widescreen format quite nicely. Another nice thing is that not all old consoles have the same resolution, so with a widescreen you wouldn't have to worry about adjusting any of the settings on the monitor whenever you played another console. I guess you could always stretch the images as well. I know the XRGB mini lets you do that but it does lower the picture quality a bit.

If you can easily find the Diamondtron, or any good rgb crt, then I would say go for it. Especially if you can get a good deal on one and if the monitor is multi-sync. Having multi-sync will save you the $250 it costs to buy an XRGB3. As nice as the Sony is, I think I will be playing my retro consoles on my larger crt rgb monitor. I sacrifice picture quality but I gain a bunch more screen real estate.

There are always caveats with crt monitors :p
 
rabidz7 said:
What device do you need to check black level?
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Can we have some context? Any meter should work. If you don't have one, you can simply do a grayscale step pattern, with 0 IRE at the bottom and 100 IRE at the top. Lower the black level until 0 IRE is black, while the next step (usually 10 IRE) is still visible.

This is actually the way Sony has you set the G2 levels in WinDAS. No measurements are taken.
 
@KG-Prime90
ofcourse without experience with electronics of this sort I advice not to open it or do crazy mods

I myself will totally be doing it though. First I plan to play more with CRT tubes, deflection circuits etc. with other monitors.

@PCnerf
Ofcourse going from Trinitron to Diamondtron won't be a big upgrade, rather side-grade.
IBM P275 that I had compared to Lacie Electron 22 IV Blue is very comparable. Not ennough of a difference in favor of Diamondtron to hunt for it when having Trinitron but being in search for 4:3 CRT I would strongly advice to widen searching scope for Diamontron monitors, even take them as primary search item because maybe only slightly but they are better.

For old consoles cheapest and best solution if one have space for it will always be normal big 15KHz TV set, at least in EU because here all TV's had RGB inputs and could easily display NTSC timings without any adjustments needed. It then is completely analog without any ADC->memory->DAC stages and all light guns work because no input lag is present. In US it might be somewhat problematic to getTV set with RGB inputs...

@rabidz7
Calibration probe, preferably X-Rite i1 Display Pro
But checking pure black screen level on CRT to eg. determine contrast ratio is pretty much useless because it will rise when there is anything on screen and especially when there is a lot of bright stuff on screen.
 
Why can black levels even be off balance to begin with? I mean, black should just be the monitor not firing electrons, right? On my F520 if I turn brightness down to 0 I can get it to pretty much go completely dark in a dark room, but I don't get why cranking up the brightness even affects the black.

@XoR
RE: "it will rise when there is anything on screen"
Why's that - just reflective self-illumination?
 
jngl said:
Why can black levels even be off balance to begin with? I mean, black should just be the monitor not firing electrons, right? On my F520 if I turn brightness down to 0 I can get it to pretty much go completely dark in a dark room, but I don't get why cranking up the brightness even affects the black.
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Electron guns don't shut off like that. It still is making electrons, the magnets just stop accelerating them. Magnets can't totally shut down, so there is residual power even when tube is black. IIRC, brightness is determined by beam current. If the beam current is high, the residual electrons that end up accelerated have more power and thus effect black level more.
 
XoR said:
@KG-Prime90
ofcourse without experience with electronics of this sort I advice not to open it or do crazy mods

I myself will totally be doing it though. First I plan to play more with CRT tubes
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From reading around on this and not opening it up, it sounds like like it could be a breached tube. As far as trying to fix them, for laymen it's potentiality to be dangerous or deadly, and not having the right voltage testers ect make it unlikely that it is worth to bother messing with it. There is also the potential to expose yourself to xray radiation, which i have had enough of myself due to cancer, if not calibrated right so I'm done with that shit.

I will buy the cheapest piece of crap mv or ips panel i can find with glass, hopefully to ease the transition, since you can spend 1.2k on an Eizo and basically have the same crap issues as a $150 dell *shrug they are all crap at any price compared to the fw900.

These things were litterally my most prized possesions. I spent 5-16 hours a day in front of them for a decade, even slept no more than 5 feet from them. I basked in their glow, they were my warmth in the winter, lol. It was possibly an un-natural love affair.

Oled cannot come soon enough. I hope it doesn't suck.

That said, i do have two fw900 worth of potentially useable spare parts for sale.
 
KG-Prime90 said:
From reading around on this and not opening it up, it sounds like like it could be a breached tube. As far as trying to fix them, for laymen it's potentiality to be dangerous or deadly, and not having the right voltage testers ect make it unlikely that it is worth to bother messing with it. There is also the potential to expose yourself to xray radiation, which i have had enough of myself due to cancer, if not calibrated right so I'm done with that shit.
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Not sure that an ill calibrated tube will increase exposure to xray radiation. CRT glass is designed and treated to absorb most of the xray radiation. You'd have to run your tube at ludicrous amounts to even begin to approach the beam currents necessary to pose a risk.
 
spacediver said:
Not sure that an ill calibrated tube will increase exposure to xray radiation. CRT glass is designed and treated to absorb most of the xray radiation. You'd have to run your tube at ludicrous amounts to even begin to approach the beam currents necessary to pose a risk.
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The point is that if you are in fact changing out parts and aren't setting the correct voltages, or even know what they are supposed to be, there is a risk there. At least this was stated and warned about by someone in another forum that said they had been fixing monitors ect since the 70's.
However unlikely, it just umderlines the seriousness of being mindfull before tinkering that's all.
 
spacediver said:
Not sure that an ill calibrated tube will increase exposure to xray radiation. CRT glass is designed and treated to absorb most of the xray radiation. You'd have to run your tube at ludicrous amounts to even begin to approach the beam currents necessary to pose a risk.
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By the time you'd be getting ionizing radiation out, you'd have end up with Yrays, which would be able to penetrate the glass. This would also need a MASSIVE beam current.
 
KG-Prime90 said:
From reading around on this and not opening it up, it sounds like like it could be a breached tube. As far as trying to fix them, for laymen it's potentiality to be dangerous or deadly, and not having the right voltage testers ect make it unlikely that it is worth to bother messing with it. There is also the potential to expose yourself to xray radiation, which i have had enough of myself due to cancer, if not calibrated right so I'm done with that shit.

I will buy the cheapest piece of crap mv or ips panel i can find with glass, hopefully to ease the transition, since you can spend 1.2k on an Eizo and basically have the same crap issues as a $150 dell *shrug they are all crap at any price compared to the fw900.

These things were litterally my most prized possesions. I spent 5-16 hours a day in front of them for a decade, even slept no more than 5 feet from them. I basked in their glow, they were my warmth in the winter, lol. It was possibly an un-natural love affair.

Oled cannot come soon enough. I hope it doesn't suck.

That said, i do have two fw900 worth of potentially useable spare parts for sale.
Click to expand...

what's wrong with 4:3 CRT monitors? Why not get one of those as a replacement? No widescreen but everything else is similar... And also the biggest CRTs are 20" compared to 22" FW900.
 
jngl said:
Why can black levels even be off balance to begin with? I mean, black should just be the monitor not firing electrons, right? On my F520 if I turn brightness down to 0 I can get it to pretty much go completely dark in a dark room, but I don't get why cranking up the brightness even affects the black.
Click to expand...
Brightness sets the bias level of the CRT.
The CRT should not be turning off with black when properly calibrated. The best CRTs, when properly calibrated, should have about 10,000:1 on/off contrast with a brightness of 100 nits. So your black level should be about 0.01 nits.
You can, of course, turn down the brightness too much so that the tube turns off with black, but this results in very inaccurate gamma.
If you use an external LUT for calibration, it is possible to tweak things so that the tube will turn off with black, and the gamma response is accurate. However you will get very bad streaking on the CRT when anything moves over a black background.
You'll never actually see true black on the CRT anyway: ANSI contrast means that as soon as there is anything else displayed on the screen, the black level rises, and if an image just cuts to black the phosphor decay time is long enough that it will still glow for 30+ seconds before turning completely black.

KG-Prime90 said:
Oled cannot come soon enough. I hope it doesn't suck.
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You're probably going to be disappointed if you expect them to be anything like CRTs, rather than LCDs with really good black levels.
It's theoretically possible to have OLED monitors that would be quite CRT-like, but I certainly wouldn't expect that until we get third parties like BenQ producing monitors using OLED panels, rather than LG or Samsung produced displays.
 
Look what arrived today! Hopefully I'll have time to experiment with it over the holidays.

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one of em was starting to flash red upon power up, though hasn't done it in a few days. Reckon it's good to have a rejuvenator around just in case, plus would be cool to test things like emission.
 
When do you plan on breaking it out? Read that manual... :). You'll want to make it part of your nightly routine.
 
Where can I buy a new polorizer for a Nokia 445pro 21" 4:3? Is there an installation guide?
 
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