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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.
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spacediver
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So I make a deal to pick up a $60 FW900 yesterday (I live in Toronto). Owner gave me a call about 30 min before my ride was arriving (paid $60 bucks for the roundtrip to Mississauga), and says he has some bad news. He dropped the monitor while he was moving it to his living room, and the plastic covering on the side had cracked badly all the way down to the back. He said it still works, but he'd reduce the cost to $30.
I was still keen, went and met the guy (nice guy) saw the monitor set up (he had duct taped the cracked portion) and carried it down 3 flights of stairs and then up 2 flights of stairs at my place. I knew all those squats and deadlifts would come in handy
I had the monitor placed on my bed while I was moving my old monitor (HP 1130) off my desk, and I hear a terrible crash. I slowly, and reluctantly, turn around, and to my horror, see that the FW900 has fallen off my bed, torn some wood off my cabinet drawer, and there is water and milk everywhere, including both CRTs. There is also broken glass. The monitor is face down on the floor.
I turn it around, and to my relief, the screen is still intact and untouched. The swivel base has come off, but with some effort I put it back on. The broken glass was from a glass of water that was on my desk.
Turn on the monitor and it looks awful. Washed out colors, and weird diagonal lines. I contain my anxiety while waiting for it to warm up and do an image restoration.
and oh my fucking goodness, what an incredible image. It is like looking at content through an aquarium - this screen is incredible - it's hard to say whether it's the quality of the actual material of the screen, or the quality of the tube - probably both. I am in love.
Still trying to figure out how to best calibrate this (don't yet have a colorimeter) - I've read the calibration posts on this thread but it's a bit confusing, so I'll post back here once I have some more experience and better questions.
Oh, and my room reeks of pot - this guy was clearly a major pot head, and when the CRT heats up the vapors are released. Hopefully I can get rid of some of the issue by cleaning the exterior, but there's likely some gunk/resin deposits inside. If anyone has any advice I'm all ears.
I was still keen, went and met the guy (nice guy) saw the monitor set up (he had duct taped the cracked portion) and carried it down 3 flights of stairs and then up 2 flights of stairs at my place. I knew all those squats and deadlifts would come in handy
I had the monitor placed on my bed while I was moving my old monitor (HP 1130) off my desk, and I hear a terrible crash. I slowly, and reluctantly, turn around, and to my horror, see that the FW900 has fallen off my bed, torn some wood off my cabinet drawer, and there is water and milk everywhere, including both CRTs. There is also broken glass. The monitor is face down on the floor.
I turn it around, and to my relief, the screen is still intact and untouched. The swivel base has come off, but with some effort I put it back on. The broken glass was from a glass of water that was on my desk.
Turn on the monitor and it looks awful. Washed out colors, and weird diagonal lines. I contain my anxiety while waiting for it to warm up and do an image restoration.
and oh my fucking goodness, what an incredible image. It is like looking at content through an aquarium - this screen is incredible - it's hard to say whether it's the quality of the actual material of the screen, or the quality of the tube - probably both. I am in love.
Still trying to figure out how to best calibrate this (don't yet have a colorimeter) - I've read the calibration posts on this thread but it's a bit confusing, so I'll post back here once I have some more experience and better questions.
Oh, and my room reeks of pot - this guy was clearly a major pot head, and when the CRT heats up the vapors are released. Hopefully I can get rid of some of the issue by cleaning the exterior, but there's likely some gunk/resin deposits inside. If anyone has any advice I'm all ears.
spacediver
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thanks Rob! check your pm
spacediver
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I have the desktop set at 1600x1024 now and text is very clean.
Why would you use 1600x1024 instead of 1600x1000 (the latter is the fw900 16:10 aspect ratio).
Also, am I the only one who prefers lower res? I'm running 1280x800 @ 120hz and it looks gorgeous. Anything higher and the text is too tiny! (although it still renders cleanly)
Loved your account of getting the monitor.
Yes, 1600 by 1024, is perfect to match aspect ratio. Used that resolution for years. (FW900 is not quite wide enough to actually be a 16:10 monitor. That's only if you letterbox a bit. Never saw a need to do that though...)
As I relay every few years in this thread...I think this one, I got past this issue by leaving it on for about 3 days straight. Made the short or whatever it was burn out or something.
The same symptoms had been happening to my original FW900 regularly and then after my little marathon of straight on time, they went away.
Maybe just lucky...but might be worth a go....
spacediver
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Loved your account of getting the monitor.
Yes, 1600 by 1024, is perfect to match aspect ratio. Used that resolution for years. (FW900 is not quite wide enough to actually be a 16:10 monitor. That's only if you letterbox a bit. Never saw a need to do that though...)
ah, never knew that. Just looked at the official specs and you're right
482.1mm x 308.2mm
Good God this is still going on! Unkle Vito is solid and its garbage like this that fuck it up for everyone else and make it harder for the rest of us to get a FW900 from vito because he moves one more step closer to saying fuck it no shipping anymore
Absolutely. Unkle Vito is a stand up guy. And very nice and helpful. Got my 2nd FW900 from him years ago and it's still going strong at my Dad's.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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I am so glad that one of these jewels is still going strong and performing for you! I am happy that you are still happy with the unit and the service!
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
Heres 3 for sale in California
Asking $750 for 2 or $500 each unit
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/ele/3596317141.html
Asking $750 for 2 or $500 each unit
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/ele/3596317141.html
Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
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A little PSA for people here:
The LaCie electron22blueIV is another stellar late model CRT. I haven't seen an fw900 in person, but I imagine the Lacie probably matches it in color and sharpness. I found mine for $50 on craigslist in Chicago, in like new condition. Manufactured in 2003, with quite a few years offline if it's condition is any indication, this thing probably has a lot of life left in it. I know there are some NEC and Mitsubishi monitors produced around the same time that are pretty much identical, like the NEC FP2141SB.
Max res available out of the box is 2048x1536 @ 85hz. I imagine you could do some funky higher resolutions with power strip. Haven't tried yet though.
Here's a few pics of mine in action. Haven't taken the time to learn how to reduce motion blur with my camera but you still get an idea of the deep color this thing has:
Most PC games are compatible with different aspect ratios, so they look great on 4:3 monitors. For example, Far Cry 3 and Trine 2.
There are a few games that force 16:9 letterbox, but they still look great.
You have to sit a little closer but no biggie.
This model is also Sync On Green compatible, meaning it displays picture from PS2's outputting 480p RGB. You can force a lot of games into 480p, like Gradius V, with a homebrew program called GS Mode Selector.
To hook up a Wii or Gamecube, however, you need an active Component to VGA transcoder. Thankfully they're not in very high demand and can be had for cheap on ebay.
The LaCie electron22blueIV is another stellar late model CRT. I haven't seen an fw900 in person, but I imagine the Lacie probably matches it in color and sharpness. I found mine for $50 on craigslist in Chicago, in like new condition. Manufactured in 2003, with quite a few years offline if it's condition is any indication, this thing probably has a lot of life left in it. I know there are some NEC and Mitsubishi monitors produced around the same time that are pretty much identical, like the NEC FP2141SB.
Max res available out of the box is 2048x1536 @ 85hz. I imagine you could do some funky higher resolutions with power strip. Haven't tried yet though.
Here's a few pics of mine in action. Haven't taken the time to learn how to reduce motion blur with my camera but you still get an idea of the deep color this thing has:
Most PC games are compatible with different aspect ratios, so they look great on 4:3 monitors. For example, Far Cry 3 and Trine 2.
There are a few games that force 16:9 letterbox, but they still look great.
You have to sit a little closer but no biggie.
This model is also Sync On Green compatible, meaning it displays picture from PS2's outputting 480p RGB. You can force a lot of games into 480p, like Gradius V, with a homebrew program called GS Mode Selector.
To hook up a Wii or Gamecube, however, you need an active Component to VGA transcoder. Thankfully they're not in very high demand and can be had for cheap on ebay.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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A few good alternatives to the GDM-FW900 are the Sony GDM-F520, the Sony GDM-C520(K) Artisan, the Sony GDM-F500R, the Sony CPD-G520P, and the Sony CPD-G520. The Sony CPD Series E are decent monitors but they are more geared towards business applications and not professional applications.
Sony manufactured Trinitron tubes for Sun Microsystem, Dell, SGI, IBM, Compaq/HP, and NEC. There are CRT Trintron tubes in some models from these manufacturing companies that are decent alternatives for gaming.
Mitsubishi came out with the DiamondTRON technology to compete head-to-head with the Sony Trintron tube, but it is basically a copycat of the Trinitron. I have evaluated the DiamondTRON tubes against the Trinitron tubes, and they are also decent alternatives; but I found the Trinitron tubes to be a bit brighter and crispier than the DiamondTRON. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The LaCie ElectronBlue is a DiamondTRON CRT among others from NEC and Compaq.HP, to name a few.
Hope this helps...
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
Sony manufactured Trinitron tubes for Sun Microsystem, Dell, SGI, IBM, Compaq/HP, and NEC. There are CRT Trintron tubes in some models from these manufacturing companies that are decent alternatives for gaming.
Mitsubishi came out with the DiamondTRON technology to compete head-to-head with the Sony Trintron tube, but it is basically a copycat of the Trinitron. I have evaluated the DiamondTRON tubes against the Trinitron tubes, and they are also decent alternatives; but I found the Trinitron tubes to be a bit brighter and crispier than the DiamondTRON. Again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The LaCie ElectronBlue is a DiamondTRON CRT among others from NEC and Compaq.HP, to name a few.
Hope this helps...
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
Should I Get this Compaq P1220 for $25 ?
Manufacture date June 2002.
MADE IN JAPAN
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computer-accessories-22-inch-CRT-monitor-W0QQAdIdZ461615542
Manufacture date June 2002.
MADE IN JAPAN
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-computer-accessories-22-inch-CRT-monitor-W0QQAdIdZ461615542
Enhanced Interrogator
[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah, just did a quick google search that showed it's probably a rebranded Diamondtron, so it should be worth it.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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We have done "torture" tests with various CRTs, and the maximum resolution that I was able to achieve was x1600@60Hz, but it is not recommended to do that.
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
My wife resurfaced the bezel on my Sony FW900 with a World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria skin. The bezel was quite scratched up since I purchased this monitor for $80 at a recycling center in Chicago. It turned out great and looks great on my desk.
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Hey Vito, thanks for all the work you do in keeping the CRT's running around the world! I have a couple questions for you:
1. I obtained a free NEC FP2141SB recently. It has a problem where the screen will just blank and disappear, yet the green LED stays on as if nothing is wrong. Most of the time when I turn it off for a minute it will return, but only for another 1/2 hour to an hour, sometimes less. What do you think is causing this problem?
2. Is it possible to use the NEC tube as a backup tube for my LaCie electron22blueIV? I'm pretty sure they're the same monitor. All the options in the OSD exactly the same, just the font is slightly different.
1. I obtained a free NEC FP2141SB recently. It has a problem where the screen will just blank and disappear, yet the green LED stays on as if nothing is wrong. Most of the time when I turn it off for a minute it will return, but only for another 1/2 hour to an hour, sometimes less. What do you think is causing this problem?
2. Is it possible to use the NEC tube as a backup tube for my LaCie electron22blueIV? I'm pretty sure they're the same monitor. All the options in the OSD exactly the same, just the font is slightly different.
LAGRUNAUER
Gawd
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For what you are describing, and again, without a full diagnostic done on the CRT, it appears that the unit may have a leaking cap(s). I would check the PSU for leaking and bulged caps.
Before you replace a CRT from one brand/model with another similar CRT from another brand/model, I would pickup the maintenance manuals of both brands/models and then check the tube's part numbers, the A1 board part numbers, neck assembly part numbers, and the FBT's part numbers first. The CRTs and FBTs are sensitive parts that usually have a warning label next to it, and by manufacturing safety requirements, the correct parts must be installed/replaced in order to avoid hazards ranging from shorts to implosions.
A general rule of thumb... Not because the OSD look exactly the same and/or similar on units implies that such units can share the same parts... Be safe, don't assume, and find out first...
Lastly, thanks so much for your kind words...
Hope this helps...
Sincerely,
Unkle Vito!
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Thanks, the exact type of answers I was looking for.
I do have the service manuals for both units, so that should help figuring out if the parts are interchangeable. On top of the OSD, they're both from the same year and same price range, and I know they're both Diamondtrons, so I figured it would be likely, given how common "rebranding" is with monitors.
But hopefully solution 1 will work, and I can just switch to the NEC unit when the Lacie begins to lose its luster.
I do have the service manuals for both units, so that should help figuring out if the parts are interchangeable. On top of the OSD, they're both from the same year and same price range, and I know they're both Diamondtrons, so I figured it would be likely, given how common "rebranding" is with monitors.
But hopefully solution 1 will work, and I can just switch to the NEC unit when the Lacie begins to lose its luster.
Picked up an NEC FE2111SB today for $40.
Manufacture date is July 2003.
Works perfectly and I'm very happy with it.
After some time with calibrating it, the picture quality is awesome !!
Great color, sharp text, great geometry, blacks are really black and white is nice and white.
Im using 9300 color temp and 12% brightness, contrast at 91%.
Id put its quality very very close to that of an FW900 or GDM-C520K
Hoping my 2003 NEC FE2111 gets me to OLEDs, and I can just bypass TN/IPS/VA panels completely
Manufacture date is July 2003.
Works perfectly and I'm very happy with it.
After some time with calibrating it, the picture quality is awesome !!
Great color, sharp text, great geometry, blacks are really black and white is nice and white.
Im using 9300 color temp and 12% brightness, contrast at 91%.
Id put its quality very very close to that of an FW900 or GDM-C520K
Hoping my 2003 NEC FE2111 gets me to OLEDs, and I can just bypass TN/IPS/VA panels completely
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Enhanced Interrogator
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Those are almost identical to my Lacie's settings, except I'm at 7500K. Did you use the "Constant Brightness" function after you warmed it up for a half hour or so? That's supposed to compensate for phosphor wear and get close to factory quality.
Same here, I'll probably make the switch when 24" OLED's get to a reasonable price point.
No. Thats basically a color restoration.
That raises the brightness to 31%. Too much.
spacediver
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Anyone ever heard of the sony BVM CRTs? Apparently they were high end professional CRTs that cost several thousand dollars. Here's an ad for a 24 inch 16:9 one
http://www.gearbox.com/product_info.php?product=Sony BVM-D24E1WE 24inch HD CRT Monitor
I wonder how it compares to the FW900 in terms of image quality. Unce Vito, any ideas? I saw your post here:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034302175&postcount=5042
It says it has 1000 TVL - but doesn't an FW900 have a higher resolution?
Also, check out the latest in OLED from sony:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/
And a very interesting video presentation by sony on this new tech. There's a fascinating graphic that compares OLED, CRT, lcd and plasma.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/collections-technology_training/video-prenab2011_oled_training/
http://www.gearbox.com/product_info.php?product=Sony BVM-D24E1WE 24inch HD CRT Monitor
I wonder how it compares to the FW900 in terms of image quality. Unce Vito, any ideas? I saw your post here:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1034302175&postcount=5042
It says it has 1000 TVL - but doesn't an FW900 have a higher resolution?
Also, check out the latest in OLED from sony:
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-monitors/cat-oledmonitors/
And a very interesting video presentation by sony on this new tech. There's a fascinating graphic that compares OLED, CRT, lcd and plasma.
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/video/collections-technology_training/video-prenab2011_oled_training/
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ZeosPantera
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Just throw on http://www.classicshell.net/ and you can get windows 8 to behave and look like win98 if you want.
This was an interesting presentation, curious that he claims that their OLED is 100 times faster than CRT.
It is possible i guess, if neither tech has any processing/circuitry whatsoever that delays the picture production, then the speed will simply be determined by the length the electricity needs to travel. If so, this translates into "OLED has 100 times shorter cabling/obviously no electron tube with extra traveltime".
Both would still be so fast that the difference is purely academic, even if the difference is really 100x.
Picked up an NEC FE2111SB today for $40.
Manufacture date is July 2003.
Works perfectly and I'm very happy with it.
After some time with calibrating it, the picture quality is awesome !!
Great color, sharp text, great geometry, blacks are really black and white is nice and white.
Im using 9300 color temp and 12% brightness, contrast at 91%.
Id put its quality very very close to that of an FW900 or GDM-C520K
Hoping my 2003 NEC FE2111 gets me to OLEDs, and I can just bypass TN/IPS/VA panels completely
I have the same monitor but theres no windows 7 driver which makes things a mess to the point im tempted to move to lcd. If you have the nec drivers installed and have an nvidia card could you do me a favor. If so set your monitor to 1024x768@120hz in windows display then go into the nvidia control panal and let me know what the settings are listed as in the custom resolution. You know if you're in the right place if it looks like this.
Then do the same for 1280x960@100hz(change res/refresh in windows then check nvidia). It would be a big help.
Side question anyone. When i play some games like bioshock infinite or xcom and set my resolution to 1280x960@100hz the game plays at 1280x1024@85hz. It doesnt matter if i change to 1280x960 before starting the game or if the game settings say 1280x960 it's always 1280x1024. How do you fix this problem?
I dont use Windows 7. I'm using Windows XP !
livefastdieyoung
Limp Gawd
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when i first moved to windows 7, i was using a diamondtron-tubed ibm c220p crt and ran into the exact same issues as you did. starting with vista i believe, windows strictly enforces the edid information stored in the monitor.
what i ended up doing was creating an edid override .inf file with the gaming resolutions i used most, and 'deleted' the wrong aspect resolutions like 1280x1024. once the .inf file was installed, the monitor worked great and i never ran into resolution/refresh problems again. using a custom .inf means you don't need to create custom resolutions with the nvidia control panel, as the resolutions you've defined in the edid override .inf are seen as the monitor's 'native' resolutions.
i used phoenix edid designer 1.3, googling it will give you download links. edid designer itself won't create the .inf, use entech monitor asset manager to create the custom .inf with the edid table values generated by edid designer.
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[H]ard|Gawd
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He was talking about response time, you're talking about input lag. Very important difference.
Response time is the time it takes a pixel to change from white to black, or one color to another. If you look at most LCD's, you'll notice pictures in motion tend to smear. That's because the each pixel can't change color fast enough to keep up with the image presented.
CRT's have typically been king in this realm, because a phosphor can change it's color quickly, but it's not instant. You'll notice smearing in CRT's especially with very bright objects against dark backgrounds. Apparently, OLED's are even better in this arena, which is kinda awesome.
In regards to input lag, I imagine that's the one area CRT's will never be surpassed, because they are analog. OLEDs will be digital like plasmas and LCDs, so input lag will still be present to various degrees depending on the model. And the amount of wiring doesn't matter with input lag, because electricity moves close to the speed of light, and there is absolutely no way any person could detect a difference.
spacediver
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Ok, just checked out the specs for that 32 inch CRT: the BVM-A32E1WM (the one that, according to Uncle Vito, had an MSRP of $42,850.00). FORTY TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS!
http://assets.sonybiz.net/doc/bv/X/BVM-A_Series(brch).pdf
If I'm reading this correctly, the dot pitch (called AG pitch, or aperture grille pitch) was between 0.32 and 0.36mm
How is this considered superior to the FW900? What am I missing here?
http://assets.sonybiz.net/doc/bv/X/BVM-A_Series(brch).pdf
If I'm reading this correctly, the dot pitch (called AG pitch, or aperture grille pitch) was between 0.32 and 0.36mm
How is this considered superior to the FW900? What am I missing here?