24-27" Monitor recommendation, please.

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warriorpoet

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This does seem a bit of a sticky wicket these days, but I'm ready to finally relegate 'ol reliable (SyncMaster 2253LW- 21.6" TN) to office duty. As with anything, there is no perfect answer; hopefully all the gurus here can help find the best one for me.

PC:
i5 2500k
Radeon 7970
8 Gb DDR3 1866
2x SSDs (OS, programs, Steam)
1x HDD (cold storage)

Uses:
office work, browsing, musical composition, audio recording, gaming

Requirements/ desires:
24"-27"
Higher DPI is better (I do a lot of work with tiny musical notation)
high contrast is preferable (especially good blacks)
semi-glossy or matte is preferred, but glossy is doable. I'd like to avoid heavy AG coatings.
16:10 ratio preferred
>$400 (I will go slightly over if value is too good to miss)

The candidates so far:
Crossover 27q 27" Korean IPS (~$430 perfect pixel, ~$370 non-perfect)
Samsung S4A850DW 24" refurb (~$300)
Asus PA248Q 24" (~$360)

wildcards:
Dell S2440L 24"(~$200)

The Korean IPS seems the best risk/reward proposition, the Asus the safest bet, Samsung's PLS a good value if their refurbs are up to snuff, and the Dell's a beautiful little thing with low DPI and a glossy screen that just does the deep black thing amazingly well.

Is there something obvious out there I'm missing? I keep rejecting the UltraSharp series because of the heavy AG, but read it might be getting less obtrusive; is this true and should I reconsider the U2412M?

For reference, my current favorite monitor is the 1080p RGBLED on my Dell XPS16. If I can get pixel density and color accuracy in that range, I'll be a happy guy. :)
 
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I have the U2412M right now and i'm probably going to return it due to the AG coating. I read all the concerns about it but assumed it was people who were either being too picky of a 300$ IPS display or used to the clarity of glossy displays and not giving the monitor a fair shake. I took a chance and bought one sight-unseen and now i'm dealing with the hassle of returning it as a result.

All of the 16:10 24" IPS displays with AG are like this, the PA248Q uses the exact same panel and is just as bad. On white backgrounds (like the Google homepage) it is the most noticeable, but its bad enough that it even becomes distracting on light greys and blues. I found it even worse when trying to play games because you can see moving objects *behind* the grainy coating, if that makes any sense, and only makes it seem more pronounced.

Now that I see it I can't stop seeing it. Perhaps it's made worse by the fact that I know it's there and as a result seems even grainer than it really is, but even if thats true, it dosen't stop me from feeling like I need to clean dirt off the monitor every time I look at it because its so grainy.
 
#Grey said:
I have the U2412M right now and i'm probably going to return it due to the AG coating. I read all the concerns about it but assumed it was people who were either being too picky of a 300$ IPS display or used to the clarity of glossy displays and not giving the monitor a fair shake. I took a chance and bought one sight-unseen and now i'm dealing with the hassle of returning it as a result.

All of the 16:10 24" IPS displays with AG are like this, the PA248Q uses the exact same panel and is just as bad. On white backgrounds (like the Google homepage) it is the most noticeable, but its bad enough that it even becomes distracting on light greys and blues. I found it even worse when trying to play games because you can see moving objects *behind* the grainy coating, if that makes any sense, and only makes it seem more pronounced.

Now that I see it I can't stop seeing it. Perhaps it's made worse by the fact that I know it's there and as a result seems even grainer than it really is, but even if thats true, it dosen't stop me from feeling like I need to clean dirt off the monitor every time I look at it because its so grainy.
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I was afraid of that with the Asus...

My experiences with UltraSharps has been limited, but those were my impressions too.

I'd already own the 24" PLS Samsung If it wasn't for their atrocious backlight bleed reputation.
 
I haven't kept track, but has anyone in these forums ever purchased a refurbished Samsung PLS? I am curious if perhaps Samsung may have fixed the BLB on refurb models.

It is also just as likely they are simply selling the same exact bleeding monitors as refurbs, and hope nobody notices/cares.

And I had the same exact experience with the Dell 2412. I read the reviews, and most people said at the time that it wasn't as grainy as the 2410, and wasn't that terrible overall. I get it and first thing I try to do is peel off the 'plastic' that is making the screen all dusty looking. Of course there was no plastic. On every white or light background it looked like my monitor was covered in dust. I have no idea how people say they get used to it, unless mine just had an extra helping of AG coating,

The only other options I can think of for the OP would be other 24" VA panels, Samsung 650, BenQ, etc. But they are all 16:9. If you want a height adjustable stand, they may be preferred over the Dell S series model (not sure about the BenQ, but assume the Samsung can be adjusted). It's a shame they don't make a 16:10 A-MVA panel.

Hmm... oh, and the upcoming Dell 2413 I guess could be an option, but I expect it'll be expensive. And it's also wide gamut.
 
Namelessme said:
I haven't kept track, but has anyone in these forums ever purchased a refurbished Samsung PLS? I am curious if perhaps Samsung may have fixed the BLB on refurb models.

It is also just as likely they are simply selling the same exact bleeding monitors as refurbs, and hope nobody notices/cares.

And I had the same exact experience with the Dell 2412. I read the reviews, and most people said at the time that it wasn't as grainy as the 2410, and wasn't that terrible overall. I get it and first thing I try to do is peel off the 'plastic' that is making the screen all dusty looking. Of course there was no plastic. On every white or light background it looked like my monitor was covered in dust. I have no idea how people say they get used to it, unless mine just had an extra helping of AG coating,

The only other options I can think of for the OP would be other 24" VA panels, Samsung 650, BenQ, etc. But they are all 16:9. If you want a height adjustable stand, they may be preferred over the Dell S series model (not sure about the BenQ, but assume the Samsung can be adjusted). It's a shame they don't make a 16:10 A-MVA panel.

Hmm... oh, and the upcoming Dell 2413 I guess could be an option, but I expect it'll be expensive. And it's also wide gamut.
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Yeah, the 100% Adobe RGB coverage on my laptop is a pretty nice feature :)

I contacted the eBay seller of the refurbished panels regarding blb. The Sammy really does seem to be a best of all worlds proposition if it pans out. Shame they have such a track record of not panning out...
 
According to Samsung technical support there are no known issues with the S24A850DW, and refurbished models are produced at exactly the same level of quality as new products with reduced warranty duration. Now, having seen with my own eyes PLS backlight problems, I am still left with questions regarding this particular model...
 
I returned the U2412M today and I will never look back, no disrespect intended to fans of that monitor. If you're able to get used to the AG coating then you've got yourself a nice display, I tried hard to like it.

I bought one of the new Dell S2740l displays. It isn't 1920x1200, but it is an affordable IPS display with edge-to-edge glass that is VESA compatible (I cannot stand to use those crappy plastic bases) and you really wont find that feature combination anywhere else unless you extend your budget well beyond the 350$ price tag of this unit. I could not be happier, for image editing this display is clear and sharp, having noise from the AG interfering with my work was a deal breaker on the previous display.
 
The biggest issue I have with that one is the pixel pitch. I've gotten pretty used to working with a 1980 x 1080 RGBLED 16" screen at work, and I'd rather keep the pitch as close to that as possible at home. I have passing interest in its younger sibling (S2340L) as a super-budget option, however. How accurate are the colors? Any backlight issues? How distracting are the reflections?
 
Just a thought, if the Korean monitors are a bit too risky for your liking you could get the Auria EQ-276W which is just a rebrand like them. I won't mislead though, contrast won't be as great as some of your other choices but you gain more resolution and I've found it to still be a great monitor for the price. I also thought that the glossy would be more bothersome but honestly I've not been bothered by it at all. At the very least, if you live near a Microcenter you should check one out on display as they also have some of the other monitors on your list as well I believe, so you can make a good comparison in person. And, if you have any questions on it, feel free to ask those as well.
 
How bad is the contrast trade-off? My impression is the contrast levels from greatest to least are:

Dell S2440L (AMVA) 5000:1
Samsung S24A850DW (PLS, semi-glossy) ~1000:1
Korean IPS (glossy) ~1000:1
Dell U2412m/ Asus PA248Q (IPS, but heavy AG) ~1000:1 with AG issues

From my list above, it seems the Samsung is the best balance, but ONLY if it doesn't have BLB issues. With pixel pitch in the equation, the Koreans seem best, but there's the risk factor. The ghosting I've seen on the S2440L is almost enough to make me discount it entirely, and the super-glossy screen looks nice but has me worried about reflections.
 
The Dell S24 does 2,500:1, the Samsung does 950:1 (see extrahardware CZ and overclock.ru's reviews), the Koreans range from 700-1200:1 and the U2412 does 800-1100:1. IPS vary alot and the ghosting the entire Dell S series suffers from is too much for all but the most casual gamers or monitor noobies IMO. I would go with the Samsung 850D as long as you can get it from a place with a hassle free return+exchange policy. If you live in Canada you can get Memory Express (they have an awesome return+exchange policy) to price beat NCIX's 400$ sale price.

Another Samsung to consider is the S24A650S which should have proper overdrive, it costs 250$, it is avaliable in Canada, not sure about the states.
 
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NCX said:
Another Samsung to consider is the S24A650S which should have proper overdrive, it costs 250$, it is avaliable in Canada, not sure about the states.
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WOW! Hadn't seen that before. Looks perfect if it's without the type of inverse ghosting like the S2440L...
 
One thing that scares me regarding the AMVA panels (including the Samsung 650) is color coverage. It's something like 82-84%, right? That's kind of lousy...

As for the Samsung 850, is it reaching 950:1 contrast at usable brightness, or only cranked up full blast?

I asked an owner here who has the 24" version, and he said he was getting around 550:1 at normal brightness levels. I also recall reading a review (prad or tft, I forget which) on a 23" PLS panel, which had contrast decreasing a great deal as brightness went down. 950:1 is probably good enough, but not if it means the monitor needs to be at retina burning brightness.
 
In both reviews the contrast remained around 950:1 before and after calibration and overclock.ru tested the brightness+contrast range and the CR remained stable. Playerwares reviewed a 23" and it had stable 1100:1 contrast.

A-MVA srgb coverage ranges from 84-90% on the benq and samsumg 24". Samsung will likely have improved the 650S like they have been doing with their 850D series and the 27A650D was fine (95% ish overclock.ru)..
 
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Thanks for the info.

I guess the guy who was getting around 550:1 on his Samsung PLS just had it calibrated oddly, or got a stinker.

Is the 650S using a newer panel compared to an earlier model? Samsung has so many new models with slightly different numbering schemes, I forget which is what. 95%ish would be very good, assuming the 24" model matches its bigger brother.

The odd thing about the 650 is how it's priced cheaper in Canada than the US. It was around $300 in the US last time I checked (a bit cheaper if willing to get it off of eBay). A person could get two BenQs for around the same price as one 650 (although I expect Samsung's QC/Support to be better).
 
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~950:1, 95% sRGB with possible backlight issues and refurb vs 3000:1, 84-90% sRGB with possible ghosting issues and lower resolution.

Why can't there be a "perfect" monitor? I swear, GPU, SSD, CPU, etc. are all so much easier than this :p

so, 850d 16:10 for ~$300 refurb or 650s 16:9 ~$300 new. Decisions.
 
I went with a Crossover 27Q Korean IPS. It was $390 shipped from AccessoriesWhole, arrived in two days and has absolutely no issues (other than a couple screws that were just a hair too tight causing minor BLB in the lower corners).

AWESOME picture quality, no input lag and no noticeable ghosting. Contrast is excellent, and colors are perfect after calibration (too green without). The reflectivity is even a non-issue as soon as a picture goes up on the screen. The casing and stand are absolutely phenomenal. I'm glad I took the risk, and ecstatic to have it sitting on my desk.
 
BenQ GW2750 - review

Last month I also decided it was time to replace my 8 year old 24" Dell.

I decided that 30" was just too big for a monitor, so 27" was my limit.

My most important features are black level and contrast; in my opinion, most LED lit screens today have excellent color reproduction and cover a pretty wide gamut, so unless you're needing to exactly match Pantone colors on screen for professional applications, I'm not too worried about color these days.

Besides, poor blacks and contrast is something that you notice every second the screen is on, whereas less than perfect color isn't something immediately noticeable unless you're measuring for it (and for what it's worth, I work as a computer graphics professional so my monitor is my lifeline - choosing a good screen is of primary importance to me).

In any case, I did a lot of research and ended up buying and returning four monitors before I found one I was happy with (and some of them - like the Asus on your list - have gotten very good reviews). But, for example, the Asus' blacks were average at best and exhibited terrible flares of polarization in the corners. No way I could live with that.

I also learned that IPS is not the end-all be-all of panels that the media would have you believe these days. I too was convinced it was "IPS or bust," but in practice it's not that cut and dried.

The only kind of screen I would use with an IPS panel would be a living room TV, where you know people will be viewing all from different positions. If you want to insure everyone sees the same picture, IPS is certainly the way to go.

But for a monitor sitting right in front of you, absolute perfection in extreme viewing angles is simply not a concern. And when I discovered that IPS does not lead the pack in regards to blacks and contrast, it was bye-bye IPS.

I was almost satisfied with a 27" LG, but the blacks were no better than my old Dell and the build quality was abysmal. It was so cheaply made I'm surprised it didn't come with a tube of repair glue.

Ultimately, I went with the 27" 1920x1080 BenQ GW2750. I think I first read about it here, and found a very thorough review online that praised its AMVA panel and was where I leaned about AMVA's superior blacks and contrast.

And they ain't joking!

The BenQ didn't just beat all the other monitors I tried, it destroyed them. Every time I sit down and turn it on I let out a happy sigh; for a while I was convinced that I just wasn't going to find the kind of performance I wanted for less than a grand - but the shockingly low priced $280 GW2750 proved me blissfully wrong. I'd match it against those $900 Dell screens any day of the week.

And it has good build quality and is VESA compliant so I was able to easily attach it to my Ergotron monitor arm.

Also, I'm not a big gamer, but from the review I read it scored very highly in response time and has some gaming modes that noticeably improves performance in this area. And from my simple observations in scrolling folder contents and NOT seeing any tell tale LCD blur on text, I can attest that this screen would indeed be good for video and gaming.

What else can I say? I spent several weeks agonizing over monitor choices and I am VERY picky. I took home several screens based on their top-notch reviews and after just a few minutes decided they weren't even good enough for the blind.

I love this BenQ in a way that only a nerd can understand. My persistence paid off and I can unequivocally recommend it to everyone.

Yes, it would be nice if it were higher in resolution than 1920x1080, and I wish it were 16:10, but everying else about this monitor is so good - and especially at this price - I can look past everything else.
 
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Mojo, are you in the habit of posting Benq recommendations in every IPS thread you come across, or only mine and here?

In any case, yes, I considered AMVA. After further research, I discovered there are no 100+ PPI AMVA panels, and black/grey to white response tends to be terrible (see here and here.). I played with the s2440l a bit, and decided it was not for me. Frankly, I'm glad I passed. The difference in pixel pitch alone is worth the added risk of the Crossover, and the colors are AMAZING. No contrast issues, either; it's easily better than any TN I've run across recently.

Don't get me wrong; I do like VA panels quite a bit for certain things. For instance, my TV is VA. I just happen to prefer this big, gorgeous IPS panel sitting on my desk.
 
I had no idea both threads were yours. Do you post threads with the same question everywhere, or just in this forum and on Overclockers?

Does it really matter if I post about this monitor on every single site on the Internet? For the life of me I don't know why you care. Oh no, here come the accusations of being a shill!

Look, I feel like I made a great discovery and I want to shout it from the rooftops. If you're the kind of person who had any sort of eye for these things, finding a good monitor can be a quite a chore. It's gotten appreciably more difficult in the last year or two, now that everyone is simply making cheap 1080p televisions and selling them as "computer monitors."

A few years ago, 24" monitors were still somewhat of a specialized commodity, but when the prices of LCD displays finally bottomed out, we have seen an onslaught of ~$300 24-27" 16:9 screens and sifting through them is like a full time job. It would be nice if a lot of them were good, but the fact is the vast majority of them just suck.

So, after going through the trouble I did to find what I believe is the best 24/27" low cost monitor on the market, you're damn tootin' I'm going to tell everyone. I wish a month ago someone ELSE had made this discovery and I had found this very same posting - it would have made my life much easier.

I don't expect people to just drop everything and blindly chant "yes mojo, we will do as you say and buy the BenQ," but I'd like to think that I come across as someone who MIGHT know what he's talking about, and anyone searching for a monitor will read my post somewhere and at least give the 2750 a look.

It's my way of trying to help kindred spirits.

And if you're staring at an IPS panel and are satisfied with the black performance, then you haven't looked at a monitor with truly GOOD blacks!

I didn't see a SINGLE IPS panel that had better blacks than my 8 year old Dell (which was actually the very first commercial 24" 16:10 PC monitor ever made). And they all had flaring in the corners if you went just a nudge off axis.

I don't know if ALL AMVA panels are better in this regard, but the BenQ is.

Seriously, I don't go crazy like this over a piece of hardware often. The last time I found a piece of gear I liked THIS much was Logitech's backlit keyboard from two years ago (it was the first one to FINALLY do the backlighting correctly and looked as good or better than Apple's).

I've always been ridiculously picky over monitors & televisions and curse the day flat panels kicked CRTs to the curb and we all were suddenly forced to accept convenience over picture quality (there still has never been a flat panel - at any price - that can beat the picture of an average CRT).

So, as I count the days until OLED finally swoops in and saves us all, I've always had to go through hell every time I needed an LCD display, because I know finding one that looks the way I want it to will be an uphill battle. And, as arrogant as it sounds, because I have a better eye for these things than most (hey it's what I do for a living) I usually end up disappointed by other people's recommendations for "a fantastic monitor."

Anyway, when I DO manage to find one that looks as good as this BenQ, I feel obligated to others like me (few as they may be, thank god) to share :)
 
It's cool, man. I get excited too. Just noticed a pattern. >5 posts, and the same info in both places.

I'm glad you like your monitor. Personally, I prefer the color, angles, pixel response and PPI of my Crossover over the deeper contrast of a VA panel. There's no perfect monitor, and I'm glad we both found something we like.

...and yes, I post questions about big (for me) purchases in every available forum and research every available source. I don't have a lot of money to throw about, and can't afford to waste it.

I haven't personally seen or tested the Benq, but have had time (~1 hour) with the Dell, and a shorter time (~30 minutes) with the Samsung 650, and I prefer my IPS panel. Something about both of them felt a touch artificial, like the contrast I saw wasn't real, but an exaggeration, a cartoon-ized version of real life, if you will. Colors were similarly "off", although I'm sure a little time with my ColorMunki would get those closer.

I didn't get any face time with the Korean IPS before purchase, but can tell you it's a tremendous monitor once calibrated. The IPS monitors I put hands on before taking the plunge were all a little "off"- some blue (especially Apple's cinema, which shares a panel with my Crossover), some green, some had color drift, others backlight bleed, and some have really poor contrast (though the Apple cinema does not). My Crossover had none of those issues after calibration (a little green-heavy and bright out-of-the-box), and the contrast level, though I can't put a number to it, looks natural. It really was a gut decision to order the Crossover, and, like you, I haven't been this excited about a piece of tech in a while.

FWIW, I don't know where you are located, but Benq has a pretty terrible customer service reputation in the US. From what I've read, I have a better chance of receiving good service through AccessoriesWhole than Benq. That put me off of them real fast.
 
It seems so unlikely that the first monitor ANYONE gets home is going to honestly be "the one." I think it's more likely that someone either just doesn't want to deal with a lot of trial an error, doesn't really have an eye for what makes a good screen or falls victim to "I bought it, it's here, so it's the best" syndrome.

Naturally I'm not ready to say my BenQ is the best monitor in the world, but after having FOUR different, well respected screens at home, at least I feel pretty damn confident that it's a very good choice!

Of course when you have a big retailer like Fry's nearby, it's much easier to keep buying & returning until you get one that you're happy with. If I had been doing it all mail order I can't say I would have had the fortitude to keep reboxing and reshipping! That's one reason buying a monitor (or anything else you know will be a crapshoot) is best bought locally.

And now that Fry's and so many other brick & mortar shops are matching online prices, you don't really have to worry about paying too much.

Hell, even if you do end up paying a little more locally, the ability to easily try & return makes it very much worth it.

As far as customer service goes, in some cases it might concern me, but let's face it - all this stuff comes with at least a 30 day window from the retailer, and if after 30 days my monitor is still working, I'm really not too worried about it suddenly exploding.

Certainly not worried enough to let something like customer service influence my decision over pure performance.
 
Mojo_LA said:
It seems so unlikely that the first monitor ANYONE gets home is going to honestly be "the one." I think it's more likely that someone either just doesn't want to deal with a lot of trial an error, doesn't really have an eye for what makes a good screen or falls victim to "I bought it, it's here, so it's the best" syndrome.

Naturally I'm not ready to say my BenQ is the best monitor in the world, but after having FOUR different, well respected screens at home, at least I feel pretty damn confident that it's a very good choice!

Of course when you have a big retailer like Fry's nearby, it's much easier to keep buying & returning until you get one that you're happy with. If I had been doing it all mail order I can't say I would have had the fortitude to keep reboxing and reshipping! That's one reason buying a monitor (or anything else you know will be a crapshoot) is best bought locally.

And now that Fry's and so many other brick & mortar shops are matching online prices, you don't really have to worry about paying too much.

Hell, even if you do end up paying a little more locally, the ability to easily try & return makes it very much worth it.

As far as customer service goes, in some cases it might concern me, but let's face it - all this stuff comes with at least a 30 day window from the retailer, and if after 30 days my monitor is still working, I'm really not too worried about it suddenly exploding.

Certainly not worried enough to let something like customer service influence my decision over pure performance.
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Truth. I wish we were so lucky around here. One lousy Best Buy in the whole area, an HH Gregg and a couple office supply stores. I'm fortunate to know a couple enthusiasts and professionals personally so I can get my grubby hands on their monitors before buying my own :p

All in, I've had better experiences researching others' experience before making a decision than playing with things at the store. Unfortunately the store is not typically set up to give the best impression of a monitor's performance, and some (ahembestbuy) have pretty lousy return/ restock policies to go with their crummy selection.

The internet is a wonderful thing :)

I have really been enjoying this Crossover to bits. I'm rediscovering details and scenes in games I'd given up playing. It's like a first great pair of in-ear monitors after a lifetime of Skull Candy... And The Lord of the Rings is 8o

Mojo, what colorimeter are you using?
 
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