2016 Vizio P Series

Snowknight26

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Regarding the 4:4:4 issue, I was promised a call whenever the engineers knew something about what's happening, but after waiting for 5 weeks I knew no one cares enough to call. Instead, I gave them a call and tried to get to the bottom of this.

I spoke with someone from tier 3 support (again) and was told, very wrongly, that the TV does display 4:4:4 but because of the 4K gamut (his words) and that none of the test images I provided (madshi's purple 4:4:4, the "quick brown fox" one) can correctly show 4:4:4 so there's no way to objectively determine what chroma subsampling it's displaying. I politely told him that was a load of crap and had tried to explain to him how painfully simple it is to test. He found one image they use internally to simply verify that the TV is display UHD and not 1080p, and even that one showed it wasn't 4:4:4. Green sample text in the image was bleeding to the adjacent pixels, proving the issue, but he was adamant that the engineers will once again blame it on the different gamut (he mentioned HDR and other junk that have no relation to this). He initially said he was going to use the JPG to run the test, but when I told him that I facepalmed so hard I almost broke my face, he agreed to use the one of the lossless versions instead.

After a lot of back and forth, I was told he'll show the engineers the green color bleed and was promised a call back within 2 weeks, but I know the latter isn't going to happen so once again I'll waste hours getting a hold of tier 3 just to have them blame it on something else.

Oh well, what can you do.
 
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StryderxX

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I learned the hard way that dealing with Vizio is pure frustration. Like the saying goes "you get what you pay for". If you want a TV that works exactly as advertised don't buy a Vizio.
 

Snowknight26

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Someone on avsforum.com claimed they were able to properly display 4:4:4 but they have yet to go into any further detail about how they did it. For all we know it could be a picture of a different TV claiming it's the P75. If it's really the P75, they are literally the first person to get it working.

Official Vizio 2016 P Series Owners Thread (UHD/HDR/DV) No Price Talk Please - Page 679 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
From the images he posted, it looks like his chroma test is scaled compared to rtings.com's pixel perfect image. Hard to imagine he could be that dense, but the evidence is pretty damning in my eyes. Posters later in the thread attacking rtings.com's integrity is pretty sad. I've had my eye on this tv for awhile now, hoping for a resolution to the chroma issue, this doesn't appear to be it.
 

illram

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There are some very fervent defenders of the P series in that AVS thread for some reason.
 

Aluminum

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I just read that, pretty sad not bothering to scale the one image that matters. ("oops") Not surprised at all given who posted that, any picture test of chroma you should be able to clearly define the individual pixels.

The fanboy RDF over there is intense (not just vizio) and getting up to apple caliber lately, real shame because AVS used to be much better.

For reference this is what a meaningful test of chroma looks like, took me 2 minutes and a shitty cell phone camera from 2012 or whatever.

The purple shadow text picture is better because it forces you to scale it 1:1 to work at all, otherwise both numbers show up and let everyone know you failed to do it properly ;)
 

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illram

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Yeah I responded to that poster asking if he scaled it, and I also posted the other chroma test image which is very definitive. No "it looks fuzzy" or "it looks fine to me" or any ambiguity, it just works or it doesn't. In my opinion rtings should adopt that image for their tests.
 

illram

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4:2:2 confirmed (again), I'm doublechecking that he did it on HDMI 1-4 (the ports the tech specs claim support 4:4:4 at 4k)

Vizio told him they'd fix it with firmware (along with adding HDR10). We'll see.
 
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Snowknight26

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4:2:2 confirmed, I'm doublechecking that he did it on HDMI 1-4 (the ports the tech specs claim support 4:4:4 at 4k)
Several of us have already taken photos of the TV.. check the earlier pages

Vizio told him they'd fix it with firmware
I see no mention of that anywhere. From my own dealings with Vizio's engineers they have yet to confirm the issue let alone telling anyone it'll be fixed.
 

illram

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Right, yes sorry I meant "confirmed" sort of jokingly as in in that thread, which was thrown for a loop due to a prior incorrect post from someone claiming they got it to work.

As for Vizio saying they'll fix it, just going off what this person said:

Official Vizio 2016 P Series Owners Thread (UHD/HDR/DV) No Price Talk Please - Page 694 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Called vizio and they said the screen tearing me should be fixed and that they are going to send someone out to replace the board. They also said I should be getting 4:4:4 and that this should fix that as well. We shall see.

Rereading it though, could be the rep incorrectly telling the guy that when they fix the "screen tearing" it will fix the 4:4:4 which probably is not the case...
 

Snowknight26

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Good news! Tier 3 guy called me back and left a voicemail stating pretty much what he said the first time.

Engineering is blaming it on the color gamut. According to them, the TV is "correctly" displaying 4:4:4 (if it accepts the signal it displays it, right?) and the reason colors bleed over to adjacent pixels is the special color gamut they're using. It'd be one thing if they told me the panel simply can't do 4:4:4 but to outright lie and make up a reason is another.

I'll be sending a strongly-worded email to several higher ups expressing my dissatisfaction with how this whole situation was handled, maybe light some fires under people's butts.
 

Quix

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That's disappointing, I was thinking of getting one of those when the sell them off at the end of the year. Otherwise it looks like a great TV for the price.
 

Vengance_01

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I ended getting the 55inch Samsung KS8000 line. Bit more money but better quality than the P line. They do have a 49inch but its pricey compared to the P line's 50 inch even when its not on sale.
 

houseofbugs

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I actually just picked up the 65" KS8000 last night myself. The whole 4:4:4 chroma issue on the P series is a joke and a dealbreaker. They just released the updated HDR10 firmware for those sets yesterday but no one has said if that fixed the chroma issues. Either way I feel like Vizio's hardware is good but their firmware is extremely lacking.
 

illram

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The chroma is sad. Rtings commented in the AVS forum that they got better results in their chroma test but it inexplicably required plugging and unplugging the HDMI cables multiple times which to me doesn't make the case for this TV any better.

This is probably not an issue for the [H] crowd but the other disappointing thing about this display is the lack of a tuner, for those of us lacking cable going the HTPC route. If you're cable-free it is handy for the occasional playoff football/baseball game, or big national events on broadcast like prez debates, etc. etc. I realize alot of this stuff is now streaming but it is convenient--particularly when you have less "technically inclined" family members using the tv--to just turn on a tv and use a damn remote to watch television. If I got this TV I would have to buy an external tuner box and deal with another box in my entertainment center and another remote. And more importantly, I would have to explain to my wife why I just spent $2000 to make watching television more complicated (not to mention explaining casting to them! I'd just buy a Roku anyways--yet another additional purchase that turns me off this set.)

The FALD is really the only thing that makes the set, to me, compelling. As far as I know no other 4K set offers it at a comparable price.
 

Rocket4176

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I know this thread is about the VIZIO P series, but I own a VIZIO E70-C3 (70"), and I gotta say, it is an AWESOME fu&@ing monitor (and TV)! I won't buy anything less than than the 240 Hz refresh rate that it has. It has a 176 deg/176 deg viewing angle. I've used it as a second monitor when my 17" HP Pavillion with the i7 core laptop, it's amazing. It's also in our bedroom, about 2.5' from the end of our bed...LOL. Bitchin' for when my gf and I are watching movies and/or playing games. We're about 6' away from it when watching, but you have to be really close to it, to have to turn your neck even the slightest.
 

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Rocket4176

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The usual AV / home theatre discussion places have 100+ page posts about these as a TV, what I've read overall seems positive so far.

HF is one of the few places that has the rare double-combo of enough people that 1) care about PC input and 2) actually understand the shit that matters behind PC uses. The samsung threads are a good example of this.

There are a handful of smart users on AVS and other places but they get drowned out by the 5000 "this shows the red highlights in RandomBlurayMovie#6172 better than OtherBrand blah blah blah".
I'm not sure why VIZIO gets such a bashing, but I have a 42" and a 70". When I do read complaints, one of the first things I notice is that the model has a 60 Hz or 120 Hz refresh rate. VERY slow. If were to make a recommendation, always get 240 Hz. You won't be disappointed. I've NEVER had any problems with mine like I've read anywhere else.
 

Luke M

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I'm not sure why VIZIO gets such a bashing, but I have a 42" and a 70". When I do read complaints, one of the first things I notice is that the model has a 60 Hz or 120 Hz refresh rate. VERY slow. If were to make a recommendation, always get 240 Hz. You won't be disappointed. I've NEVER had any problems with mine like I've read anywhere else.

The E series is 60hz. So you can toss that theory.
 

Lateralus

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Refresh rate aside...we're talking about a 70" 1080p, and it's an "awesome monitor"? Why, because it successfully displays a signal and it's big? 1080p kinda sucks for PC use and at 70", DPI leaves a lot to be desired.

I won't go into the whole 4K thing (not sure why we're discussing this particular set in here anyway, as it has nothing to do with the thread). If you're primarily using it for TV, then I'm sure it's great and I'm glad that you enjoy it but it's far from most people's ideal PC monitor in 2016. And that's what's primarily being discussed in this thread - well, that in conjunction with the P series.
 

Luke M

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Never mind, I assumed you were talking about the 2016 model E. Yours is 120hz (not that it matters, but just to correct the record).
 

illram

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E70 doesn't do 4:4:4 and rtings says the large panels have high lag. No thanks.

On topoc: Anyone know of a dongle type TV tuner that plugs into an HDMI port? Like the PC ones but not USB. Would be perfect for the P. Looked all over and can't find one.
 

tntsniper

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I have the 2016 65" P Series and I absolutely love it. There's a new firmware update that a friend said resolves the 4:4:4 chroma issue, but I haven't updated yet because I lost my thumb drive. I'll report back when I do.

In all honesty, for $2k, there's nothing that I could find, after doing a little research, that beats this Monitor. I'm shocked at the negative comments on this thread and some over at AVS. I'm usually picky as hell. I had a UN65F9000 before and after 3 exchanges I got one that seemed great. After a year, it had lines going on each side of the tv. More recently I had a JS8500 for my den and while it was nice, it had dead pixels (drove me nuts but Samsung wouldn't do squat about it) and a weird blue tint to the corners.

I guess what I'm saying is, the past 10 years, I haven't found the perfect TV. Every TV has minor annoyances, that's why I absolutely DREAD buying TV's. My wife forced me to get a new one after the F9000 lines started spreading and getting worse. It's funny because I was sitting in my office and she said "Let's get a new TV" and most men would be thrilled, not me, my stomach sank.

If this goes well with Vizio, I'll continue to buy their products. I'm not blowing $3-4k per TV any more on high end TV's only to find flaws you find on TV's half the price.

I know it seems like I'm defending Vizio, but I'm not. I could careless if the TV had the name Taco Bell on it, if it's half the price and has a lot of features, then I'll settle with flaws, because thats what I'm doing with High End TV's anyways.
 

realworld

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I have the 2016 65" P Series and I absolutely love it. There's a new firmware update that a friend said resolves the 4:4:4 chroma issue, but I haven't updated yet because I lost my thumb drive. I'll report back when I do.

In all honesty, for $2k, there's nothing that I could find, after doing a little research, that beats this Monitor. I'm shocked at the negative comments on this thread and some over at AVS. I'm usually picky as hell. I had a UN65F9000 before and after 3 exchanges I got one that seemed great. After a year, it had lines going on each side of the tv. More recently I had a JS8500 for my den and while it was nice, it had dead pixels (drove me nuts but Samsung wouldn't do squat about it) and a weird blue tint to the corners.

I guess what I'm saying is, the past 10 years, I haven't found the perfect TV. Every TV has minor annoyances, that's why I absolutely DREAD buying TV's. My wife forced me to get a new one after the F9000 lines started spreading and getting worse. It's funny because I was sitting in my office and she said "Let's get a new TV" and most men would be thrilled, not me, my stomach sank.

If this goes well with Vizio, I'll continue to buy their products. I'm not blowing $3-4k per TV any more on high end TV's only to find flaws you find on TV's half the price.

I know it seems like I'm defending Vizio, but I'm not. I could careless if the TV had the name Taco Bell on it, if it's half the price and has a lot of features, then I'll settle with flaws, because thats what I'm doing with High End TV's anyways.
The only negative from this forum is due to the 4:4:4 bug. Otherwise, this display is superior to all the mid-range displays from Sony and Samsung including last year's JS9000 edgelit. You literally have to trump the P series with much more expensive models like the KS9800 and the upcoming Sony Z9D.

I can only imagine what Vizio has to offer for next year's models! Maybe if we beg for a displayport, that active CTO will listen!
 

illram

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The 4:4:4 issue is not just that it does not do it, but the set is advertised as doing it, and it doesn't do it. That's bad.
 

houseofbugs

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The 4:4:4 issue is not just that it does not do it, but the set is advertised as doing it, and it doesn't do it. That's bad.

I am glad that I went with the KS8000 then over the Vizio. It's a shame, on paper the Vizio looks like the superior TV (mainly for the FALD) but no real 4:4:4 is a dealbreaker for me as I use a PC at 4K@60HZ with 4:4:4 on my TV set for 4K gaming. All the AVS people keep discounting this but the fact is that no one has shown anything showing that it does it correctly. There was one post on the AVS forums but the guy was using it at 1080p and you can tell the image was scaled so that doesn't help. Anyone here have the P series hooked up to a PC to test the 4:4:4 running 4K@60hz? I don't understand why no one has not tried it again and shown it's running at the 4K 60hz res.
 
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I am glad that I went with the KS8000 then over the Vizio. It's a shame, on paper the Vizio looks like the superior TV (mainly for the FALD) but no real 4:4:4 is a dealbreaker for me as I use a PC at 4K@60HZ with 4:4:4 on my TV set for 4K gaming. All the AVS people keep discounting this but the fact is that no one has shown anything showing that it does it correctly. There was one post on the AVS forums but the guy was using it at 1080p and you can tell the image was scaled so that doesn't help. Anyone here have the P series hooked up to a PC to test the 4:4:4 running 4K@60hz? I don't understand why no one has not tried it again and shown it's running at the 4K 60hz res.
If anyone wants me to perfrom some tests on myy P55 and 1070, I'd be happy to if someone could give me the images and direct me on how to use them to test it.
 

kabobi

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People demonstrated on the AVS forum thread that if you pass a signal from the Vizio P to a proper AVR, the AVR recognizes the signal as 4K@60Hz, with 4:4:4. However, the TV still displays what appears to be 4:2:2. So I actually think what the Vizio customer support is saying may be somewhat true.

EDIT: There was also a new firmware update released a few days ago that added HDR10 support. I don't have a PC hooked up to my TV, but there is a chance this issue was fixed.
 

Snowknight26

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People demonstrated on the AVS forum thread that if you pass a signal from the Vizio P to a proper AVR, the AVR recognizes the signal as 4K@60Hz, with 4:4:4. However, the TV still displays what appears to be 4:2:2. So I actually think what the Vizio customer support is saying may be somewhat true.

EDIT: There was also a new firmware update released a few days ago that added HDR10 support. I don't have a PC hooked up to my TV, but there is a chance this issue was fixed.

Reading is hard. Less than 10 posts ago I already said it doesn't fix it.
 

illram

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If anyone wants me to perfrom some tests on myy P55 and 1070, I'd be happy to if someone could give me the images and direct me on how to use them to test it.

Near the top of this page (4) and earlier there are posts with the images you need and discussions on how to properly use them as well as links to the discussion at the AVS forum detailing why some posters there were incorrect about accurate chroma tests.

However it has already been verified that chroma does not function properly on this set at any resolution or refresh rate. But if you want to test again though knock yourself out, and show us your pics. I suppose the more evidence it doesn't work the better for someone at Vizio to do something about it? Who knows.
 
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Near the top of this page (4) and earlier there are posts with the images you need and discussions on how to properly use them as well as links to the discussion at the AVS forum detailing why some posters there were incorrect about accurate chroma tests.

However it has already been verified that chroma does not function properly on this set at any resolution or refresh rate. But if you want to test again though knock yourself out, and show us your pics. I suppose the more evidence it doesn't work the better for someone at Vizio to do something about it? Who knows.

Well if there is really no reason, I will not bother. I have the 55" which is also the only IPS panel in the lineup if that could make a difference.

4K UHD TV 4:4:4 60Hz Capable Master List - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews Idk if this explains anything or if it has been posted before,, but they claim his set actually does 4:4:4.

I'm also having issues with my image flickering in and out at 4:4:4 setting on this TV, which iis hopefully just my GPU which is being RMAed soon.
 
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