2016 Vizio P Series

illram

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I totally forgot about the other test image, it has a clever subpixel layout and a lot easier to quickly check. Be sure to open it in an image viewer at 100% no scaling. I feel like an idiot forgetting this since I've been using madvr for years.

I'd really like to nail down exactly what vizios can do before I decide what to do on my warranty.

Yeah I find that one way more definitive.
 

blak0137

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Update: I got a call from Vizio support and they stated that they tested in their lab with the P65 and P75 and an nVidia 980 and could not replicate the issue I was seeing where the TV would negotiate 4:4:4 but only display 4:2:2, so they are going to be replacing my TV and bringing mine back to their lab to understand what is happening to the signal. We'll see how the new one fares with the same tests in about a week or so.
 

Snowknight26

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Update: I got a call from Vizio support and they stated that they tested in their lab with the P65 and P75 and an nVidia 980 and could not replicate the issue I was seeing where the TV would negotiate 4:4:4 but only display 4:2:2, so they are going to be replacing my TV and bringing mine back to their lab to understand what is happening to the signal. We'll see how the new one fares with the same tests in about a week or so.

Can you give me the contact info for the person you spoke with? I highly doubt that they can't reproduce it.
 

blak0137

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Can you give me the contact info for the person you spoke with? I highly doubt that they can't reproduce it.
The person I spoke with was a member of their highest level of technical support and was directly working with the firmware engineers for the P series. We walked through the exact setup, walked through the nVidia control panel settings, pictures of every setting, and every test with comparisons to my Samsung as well. They worked on it on Saturday, yesterday and this morning and they are seeing the full 4:4:4 display with the exact test images posted on here as well as another from AVS Forum that was actually posted by one of the Vizio engineers on their P65 and P75 when the display EDID successfully negotiates at 4:4:4. Based on everything exchanged and the competence on their end, I trust when he said things on their lab set were looking correct.
 

Snowknight26

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Took me an hour to even convince the first line of support that what I'm talking about (chroma subsampling) isn't related to my TV's color settings. Finally had a ticket created this morning after discussing the issue with an engineer. We'll see what happens.
 

Snowknight26

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Took me an hour to even convince the first line of support that what I'm talking about (chroma subsampling) isn't related to my TV's color settings. Finally had a ticket created this morning after discussing the issue with an engineer. We'll see what happens.

Looks like they'll be sending me a new unit, which I'm pretty sure is a waste. I figure the new one also won't display 4:4:4 properly but oh well, their money.

The person I spoke with was a member of their highest level of technical support and was directly working with the firmware engineers for the P series. We walked through the exact setup, walked through the nVidia control panel settings, pictures of every setting, and every test with comparisons to my Samsung as well. They worked on it on Saturday, yesterday and this morning and they are seeing the full 4:4:4 display with the exact test images posted on here as well as another from AVS Forum that was actually posted by one of the Vizio engineers on their P65 and P75 when the display EDID successfully negotiates at 4:4:4. Based on everything exchanged and the competence on their end, I trust when he said things on their lab set were looking correct.

So what was the verdict? Inherent issue with this model?
 
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blak0137

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Looks like they'll be sending me a new unit, which I'm pretty sure is a waste. I figure the new one also won't display 4:4:4 properly but oh well, their money.



So what was the verdict? Inherent issue with this model?
I get my new TV early next week. I will test out 4:4:4 immediately and I will let you know as soon as I know.
 

kabobi

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Just fyi for those interested, the 50" P is on sale at Best Buy for $799+tax this weekend.
 

blak0137

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Looks like they'll be sending me a new unit, which I'm pretty sure is a waste. I figure the new one also won't display 4:4:4 properly but oh well, their money.



So what was the verdict? Inherent issue with this model?

Just got the new TV, still has issues with 4:4:4 (no real surprise), also this replacement TV has some other issues which is causing me to return the TV to Best Buy. I may or may not end up with another P series, getting pretty frustrated with this whole process now.
 

Snowknight26

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Just got the new TV, still has issues with 4:4:4 (no real surprise), also this replacement TV has some other issues which is causing me to return the TV to Best Buy. I may or may not end up with another P series, getting pretty frustrated with this whole process now.

That was a concern for me too.. don't want to play the panel lottery when my panel is perfect. :(

Let me know how they'll continue with your 4:4:4 issue.
 

FarleyM

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I recently purchased the 50'' to use as a TV/second monitor. After turning on HDMI color subsampling in the inputs options, I was able to get it to do 4:4:4 and text looks great. I screwed myself and started playing games on it and ended up switching it around to be my primary display. As a TV I'd give it a 10 but 50 inches a little big for how close I sit and I'm worried about the input lag (rtings claims 37ms). I don't really want to return it just because I changed my mind and decided to use it for something I didn't originally intend, especially since it really is a great TV. I think I might end up buying a 40 inch 4k display with lower input lag because after playing on this thing I just can't go back to 1440p/27inches.
 

delita

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i ended up getting the 55" IPS, delivered when i move into my new place on the 15th. def looking forward to checking it out and posting a review. anyone else have the 55" and pretty satisfied?
 

Aluminum

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Could any owners please post 4:4:4 shots, especially the second picture. Make absolutely sure you are at 100% scaling, if you can instantly see both numbers right away it is scaled, when done properly you should only clearly see one set of numbers with only a faint hint of the other.

I've yet to see a single real confirmation anywhere (scoured both avs threads, so many useless posts and fanboy arguements made my eyes bleed) and starting to think Vizio is full of crap and pulled a fast one.
 

blak0137

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Could any owners please post 4:4:4 shots, especially the second picture. Make absolutely sure you are at 100% scaling, if you can instantly see both numbers right away it is scaled, when done properly you should only clearly see one set of numbers with only a faint hint of the other.

I've yet to see a single real confirmation anywhere (scoured both avs threads, so many useless posts and fanboy arguements made my eyes bleed) and starting to think Vizio is full of crap and pulled a fast one.

On the P65, I have verified that the computer is sending the full 4:4:4 signal to the display, but on the display itself, something is happening either in processing or in the panel that causes it to only display at 4:2:2. Currently Vizio engineering is trying to figure out what is going on and why the full 4:4:4 image isn't displaying since they say they are seeing full 4:4:4 in their lab. As it sits right now, I would not consider this a full 4:4:4 display until Vizio engineering is able to figure out what is going on.

Outside of that issue, I'd probably consider the P65 to be one of the best looking non-OLED displays I have ever seen, especially in the darker viewing area that I have. For non-PC applications right now, I don't think there is a comparable display at the price point.
 

Aluminum

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Yeah bang/$ its probably the best TV to get right now, but they need their feet held to the fire about meeting the claimed specs. PC/low-latency mode really should bypass most or all image processing anyways, there is no excuse to break things if designed correctly IMO.

/rant

The first OEM that gets off their butt and has at least 1 properly implemented displayport with a non-shit panel wins most of the large PC monitor market by default. From a technical perspective, samsung could probably do it right now with a oneconnect adapter.

Everyone might have to get past hdmi anyways in a few years, at least I hope. Some UHD/8k & rec2020 future charts seem to confirm this already, no idea how good their sources are though...

/end rant
 

Amonthar

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I purchased a P50 when they were on sale. I had a few issues and thought it was the TV, since my previous monitor did not have these issues at all. I swapped it out and had the same issues. I updated my video drivers (970 GTX) a little while ago and updated them again. The only issue I have had now is a new one, and that is while playing Diablo 3, it will minimize after a bit and I will be at the desktop. Everything looks fantastic on it. I used the test screen from AVS forum to see how it looked (can't post links as this is my first post) and it looks flawless. The only major difference for me is the mouse cursor movement. I went from a 144 Hz ASUS monitor to a 60 Hz TV.

I was looking at other monitors and any that were a decent size were 21:9, which I prefer not to have, and $1200+, which I prefer not to spend. This was $800 plus tax which was right around the amount I was looking to spend. Rtings rated this as the best TV for computer gaming for the 48" to 50" section. Since I plan on using this for PC gaming 90%+, the max 60 Hz of the 50" panel does not bother me.
 

LZ_Xray

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Capture.PNG


This has to be some kind of record!
 

illram

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/rant

The first OEM that gets off their butt and has at least 1 properly implemented displayport with a non-shit panel wins most of the large PC monitor market by default.

All 12 of us!

Just kidding, I feel your pain.
 

djdrock

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I just purchased the P65 yesterday. It still has the factory firmware. I too am having 4:4:4 60Hz chroma issues with an Nvidia GTX 960 . Once I enabled the "HDMI color subsampling" option, I was able to get Nvidia to keep the settings (YCbCr444 or RGB @ 60Hz), but it is not displaying the standard chroma test (quick brown fox) properly...colors are a bit washed out (especially the green and yellow) and the bottom two lines are blurry. I called Vizio and spoke to their support (level 2 I think), and they are aware of others reporting the issue with GTX cards. Additionally, I am having dropped frames and syncing issues using the tests at testufo.com regardless of the refresh rate I set the card at.
 

djdrock

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I tried to edit my post, but it would not allow me to do so. Update: I got the latest firmware updated today (1.1.14.4 ) and it did not help.
 

Aluminum

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If they are trying to blame Nvidia 9xx cards, vizio is full of shit. They literally work with every other 4:4:4 capable TV out there, and other than an active dongle (which adds another device to rule out when troubleshooting) it is currently the only reasonable way to test these modes on a PC over hdmi 2.0.

Use the magenta/pink chroma picture, it is easier to see how the subpixels are being managed. There is no middle ground really, either you are doing 4:4:4 correctly or you are failing and doing 4:2:2 or worse.
 

Snowknight26

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Received my replacement yesterday, still can't do 4:4:4 properly. I warned them sending a TV would be a waste but what can you do. I talked to someone on the Advanced Networking team that's supposed to touch base with actual engineers and call me back so we'll see.
 

blak0137

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Received my replacement yesterday, still can't do 4:4:4 properly. I warned them sending a TV would be a waste but what can you do. I talked to someone on the Advanced Networking team that's supposed to touch base with actual engineers and call me back so we'll see.
I wish I had more info but right now I am waiting to figure out what to do after receiving two defective replacements making for a grand total of 4 P65's through my house in a month and a half... I'm probably going to just get a KS8000 this week.

TV's
1st P65, defective from Best Buy, backlight about 75% dimmer in the middle than on the sides, massive motion blur on only the left side of the screen
2nd P65, replacement for #1 from Best Buy, the one I had when I joined this thread, everything worked perfectly other than the 4:4:4 chroma, replaced on the recommendation of Vizio support
3rd P65, the Vizio ordered replacement for #2, diagnosed as VLDS cable from control card to panel defective causing green lines all over the panel, also the google cast functionality didnt work yet the TV was connected to the network and passed the network tests fine
4th P65, brought #3 back to Best Buy and exchanged to restart my return period, got it home and it exhibited the same issues as #1, super dim center backlight, motion blur on the left side only (I checked against my records even though this TV was from a different Best Buy and the serial did not match #1) also has a giant blob about the size of a 40" TV in the middle of the TV where the backlight is a different intensity.

I would totally love for this TV to work, but Vizio seems to have some quality issues on their hands...
 
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DanzoMeteor

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Received my replacement yesterday, still can't do 4:4:4 properly. I warned them sending a TV would be a waste but what can you do. I talked to someone on the Advanced Networking team that's supposed to touch base with actual engineers and call me back so we'll see.
Do you have any pics of real world issues with 4:4:4? I a similar the quickbrown fox thing with a color picker (same colors) and typed in some stuff
and it seems no issues are present. The only time 444 doesn't work is that one test... I use a VIZIO M series btw.
 

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Snowknight26

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That's not a good image for testing but nevertheless:



Best I can do as I don't have a DSLR sitting around.
 

illram

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The last one looks blurry, just like the rtings review said. The second pic is inconclusive, a proper 4:4:4 image will still faintly show 4:2:2 on the left next to the clear, dark 4:4:4, so we would need to see the full picture.
 

DanzoMeteor

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That's not a good image for testing but nevertheless:



Best I can do as I don't have a DSLR sitting around.

Thanks! Well the point is that no one that I had asked could come up with any webpages or pictures that weren't viewable. It seems everythng is ok with this TV regardless though, it even passed that test.
I'm still trying to get my TV to fail other NON tests, but I haven't seen anything yet.

QUOTE:
MPGXSVCD from avsforum "Just test 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 with anything except for that test pattern. Can you see the difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 with your TV outside of the test pattern?

Yes definitely more information and testing is needed. However, I would trust actual verifiable data over what some unknown person says every time.

A display can fail that test pattern for a lot more reasons than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling. If the display is not 1:1 pixel mapped, does not support the color gamut of the input, does not match the bit depth of the input source, or is 4:2:2 it will fail the test.

The issue is that you can’t determine which one of those things it is failing for or if it is failing for multiple reasons. That test pattern is designed to determine if a display can be used for critical image editing. It encompasses a lot more than just 4:2:2 chroma subsampling" Old 08-31-2015, 06:59 AM
 

StryderxX

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Not sure what's going on at Vizio but I ordered the new 2016 M series 65" TV from them and 1 day before it was due to be delivered I got a call from Vizio CS and was informed that they were recalling the model I ordered (M65-D0). They said there was some sort of defect but wouldn't elaborate. Now I'm looking to see what I should buy. I'll probably end up with a Samsung.
 

Aluminum

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Do you have any pics of real world issues with 4:4:4? I recreated the quickbrown fox thing with a color picker (same colors) and typed in some stuff
and it seems no issues are present. The only time 444 doesn't work is that one test... I use a VIZIO M series btw.
Not calling you a liar, but I'm checking different people's results.

Where did that "can you read this" image come from? Doesn't look anything like a valid 4:4:4 test image, but it does seem like something deceptive someone created to make themselves feel better about their 4:2:2 screen. (an avs member perhaps?)

4:4:4 is a technical specification for mapping color subpixels, whether or not it "matters for gaming" is an opinion; IMO for some games it doesn't matter but in games with certain UI styles and various desktop programs it looks like literal ass.
However whether or not an advertised feature such as 4:4:4 at a given resolution and refresh rate is correctly supported by a particular TV is a fact. Vizio claims support for 4:4:4 @ 4k @ 60hz with the 2016 P series, lets hope for their sake this is problem limited to defective sets or can be fixed with firmware, otherwise they got caught bullshitting consumers again.

PS, remember in all your testing, don't use browsers and be sure it is 100% 1:1 scaling, use an image viewer.
 

DanzoMeteor

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Where did that "can you read this" image come from? Doesn't look anything like a valid 4:4:4 test image, but it does seem like something deceptive someone created to make themselves feel better about their 4:2:2 screen. (an avs member perhaps?)

4:4:4 is a technical specification for mapping color subpixels, whether or not it "matters for gaming" is an opinion; IMO for some games it doesn't matter but in games with certain UI styles and various desktop programs it looks like literal ass.
However whether or not an advertised feature such as 4:4:4 at a given resolution and refresh rate is correctly supported by a particular TV is a fact. Vizio claims support for 4:4:4 @ 4k @ 60hz with the 2016 P series, lets hope for their sake this is problem limited to defective sets or can be fixed with firmware, otherwise they got caught bullshitting consumers again.

PS, remember in all your testing, don't use browsers and be sure it is 100% 1:1 scaling, use an image viewer.

Whatever Vizio claims, they must live up to what they say, keep them at their word. They seem to want to break out of being just a "Walmart" brand to being a premium feature, but low cost brand.
If you have something that shows UI and fonts looking like ass, please show us. Some people are not convinced .
I've have asked a number of people and tried things myself, but didn't find anything. Perhaps I haven't hit the right place yet .
 

Aluminum

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Whatever Vizio claims, they must live up to what they say, keep them at their word. They seem to want to break out of being just a "Walmart" brand to being a premium feature, but low cost brand.
If you have something that shows UI and fonts looking like ass, please show us. Some people are not convinced .
I've have asked a number of people and tried things myself, but didn't find anything. Perhaps I haven't hit the right place yet .

The technical pictures from doom9 are very conclusive and don't require "convincing". I'm curious where that picture you posted came from, because it is very deceptive in this context and whoever made it has sleazy motives IMO. It tests for nothing, except maybe really really bad color gamut.

I don't really care about opinions on whether 4:2:2 is "good enough" but if you want a quick visible example of a mainstream game: world of warcraft looks like ass without full subpixels, especially the chat and log windows. If it looks "fine" for someone else, I don't give two shits, its all opinions.

I know I'm being dickish here but it seems like you are trying to drive this towards the subjective, I want to keep this on the objective aka facts (because AVS and other forums are getting far too lost in brand wars and similar bullshit): Does the 2016 P series support 4:4:4 @ 4k @ 60hz?

A couple current owners that appear to know what they are doing are reporting "Nope" which means vizio has some splainin' to do.

I'm not some rabid brand fanboy (who are a pox upon the earth) and I would actually like to get a P75 swapped for a JS9500 with backlight defects but only if it actually works as advertised.
 

Stereodude

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I thought HD tuners were mandated by law.
Not exactly. They couldn't include an analog only tuner. But, by omitting the tuner it's technically a monitor and not a TV.

Vizio claims support for 4:4:4 @ 4k @ 60hz with the 2016 P series, lets hope for their sake this is problem limited to defective sets or can be fixed with firmware, otherwise they got caught bullshitting consumers again.
They said it would accept it on the input. Did they make any claims about being able to pass it to the panel 1:1? :confused:


I wish you guys good luck. The various 2015 Vizio models showed they're not up to the task of releasing bug free TVs where all the features work as they're supposed to. I see nothing much has changed for 2016. I hope my F8500 plasma doesn't break because there's nothing worth buying to replace it. Everything has problems. The two companies with products that show some promise (Vizio & LG) can't quite iron out the bugs.
 

DanzoMeteor

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I wonder why it's so hard to make 4:4:4 chroma TVs. Is the cost really that much?
No, you're not being dickish or childish. You paid for something , and expect it to perform.

I have not played WOW or ever intend to, but the second I notice some crapola going on with bad legibility or resolution I will note it. Fortunately, I don't game much on this screen and use it for film, pix and music performances etc.


The technical pictures from doom9 are very conclusive and don't require "convincing". I'm curious where that picture you posted came from, because it is very deceptive in this context and whoever made it has sleazy motives IMO. It tests for nothing, except maybe really really bad color gamut.

I don't really care about opinions on whether 4:2:2 is "good enough" but if you want a quick visible example of a mainstream game: world of warcraft looks like ass without full subpixels, especially the chat and log windows. If it looks "fine" for someone else, I don't give two shits, its all opinions.

I know I'm being dickish here but it seems like you are trying to drive this towards the subjective, I want to keep this on the objective aka facts (because AVS and other forums are getting far too lost in brand wars and similar bullshit): Does the 2016 P series support 4:4:4 @ 4k @ 60hz?

A couple current owners that appear to know what they are doing are reporting "Nope" which means vizio has some splainin' to do.

I'm not some rabid brand fanboy (who are a pox upon the earth) and I would actually like to get a P75 swapped for a JS9500 with backlight defects but only if it actually works as advertised.
 

Stereodude

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I wonder why it's so hard to make 4:4:4 chroma TVs. Is the cost really that much?
No, you're not being dickish or childish. You paid for something , and expect it to perform.
Well, prior to UHD, most TVs converted to 4:2:2 internally when you wanted to us the CMS and other advanced processing features. If you used the PC mode that disabled most of the image processing you could get 4:4:4 support. Some of the UHD sets have similar limitations. Not all the chipsets used in UHD TVs work in 4:4:4 yet though the trend seems to be toward 4:4:4 processing and not converting to 4:2:2.
 

delita

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getting my 55 delivered tomorrow. fingers crossed on no defects, not using for gaming though.
 

kabobi

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From reports on AVS, the TV supports 444 but does not display it correctly. When you connect the TV to an AVR, the signal is passes is detected as 444, so it's supported. However, there is some sort of issue with displaying it on the TV itself. Some people on AVS believe this to be a bug that can be remedied with a firmware update.
 
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