2016 Vizio P Series

Aluminum

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Here is another picture. I don't see how it's "fuzzy" as Rtings.com has mentioned.

Going by the very tiny mouse pointer in relation to the lines that looks scaled up, so unfortunately that is not a 4:4:4 test. The lines need to be only 1 pixel wide for the test to be valid, or about the same as the edge of that mouse pointer.

Windows "helpfully" scales up things in many cases, you have to force it to not do it by using image viewers. The 1080p test image should only take 1/4th, the 720p 1/9th of the screen. (rtings uses the usual 720p image)


The rtings comments about "blurry" really worries me about whether or not to swap my JS on the warranty replacement. It makes no sense, 4:4:4 has no "blur" or colors by definition: either the signal passes to the panel to map 1:1 color for every single pixel or it doesn't. (aka 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 etc)

Vizio already struck out on me before by faking it with HDMI 2.0 "lite" 10Gbps from the first P series I returned, if they are doing some dumb hack to fake 4:4:4 @ 60 this time around that would suck.
 
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bandit390

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Going by the very tiny mouse pointer in relation to the lines that looks scaled up, so unfortunately that is not a 4:4:4 test. The lines need to be only 1 pixel wide for the test to be valid, or about the same as the edge of that mouse pointer.

Windows "helpfully" scales up things in so many programs, you practically have to use a 3rd party image viewer to get around it. The 1080p test image should only take 1/4th, the 720p 1/9th of the screen.

Okay, I'll try again. I might of had windows scaling on...
 

bandit390

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Going by the very tiny mouse pointer in relation to the lines that looks scaled up, so unfortunately that is not a 4:4:4 test. The lines need to be only 1 pixel wide for the test to be valid, or about the same as the edge of that mouse pointer.

Windows "helpfully" scales up things in many cases, you have to force it to not do it by using image viewers. The 1080p test image should only take 1/4th, the 720p 1/9th of the screen. (rtings uses the usual 720p image)


The rtings comments about "blurry" really worries me about whether or not to swap my JS on the warranty replacement. It makes no sense, 4:4:4 has no "blur" or colors by definition: either the signal passes to the panel to map 1:1 color for every single pixel or it doesn't. (aka 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 etc)

Vizio already struck out on me before by faking it with HDMI 2.0 "lite" 10Gbps from the first P series I returned, if they are doing some dumb hack to fake 4:4:4 @ 60 this time around that would suck.


No scaling...

20160422_182412.jpg
 

Lateralus

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These appear to be a really good value. It sucks that we're stuck with 4:2:0 on the low lag HDMI 5 port, though. And 120Hz @ 1080p is a great feature, but they leave that feature out on the only size that would be viable to me as a PC monitor... :rolleyes:

None of these sets (Samsung, Sony, LG, Vizio) have been perfect and all have had compromises when it comes to certain inputs or features. Sigh. The search continues I suppose.
 

Luke M

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bandit, although it's hard to tell from that photo (can you get a better one?) it looks like the Vizio is downsampling to 4:2:2.
 

bandit390

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bandit, although it's hard to tell from that photo (can you get a better one?) it looks like the Vizio is downsampling to 4:2:2.


I know and I took a bunch, but that's best I could get from my note 5
 

realworld

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This is what the 55" IPS panel can do:
a721b8053608e4f34ead0160770f4e08.jpg


I don't think you can get any IPS monitors in the market to perform this good. Full array local dimming is not a gimmick. And Vizio's local dimming doesn't increase input lag... wow.
 

Aluminum

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This is what the 55" IPS panel can do:

I don't think you can get any IPS monitors in the market to perform this good. Full array local dimming is not a gimmick. And Vizio's local dimming doesn't increase input lag... wow.

Unfortunately backlight control is independent of chroma, but my 47" 1080p vizio from like 5+ years ago did local dimming very well.

Back to the pixel tests, anything but 4:4:4 looks like complete ass for certain PC-specific uses. (fine GUI details esp)
Its hard to make the call on that picture since we can't tell how much of that smear/moire/whatever is from the camera sensor on the phone versus the screen.
 

delita

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I'm trying to decide between the 65" Vizio-P and the new Samsung 55" KS8000. I want to spend $2000 or less, thus why I can't go with the 65" vs 65" Samsung. What's the better buy, this WON'T be used as a monitor, just my living room TV.
 

Aluminum

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For reference, 4:4:4 you should be able to see all the subpixels up close (rainbow banding is from camera)

If you can try a closeup shot, anything in the last couple years should have a good enough camera
 

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delita

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I'm trying to decide between the 65" Vizio-P and the new Samsung 55" KS8000. I want to spend $2000 or less, thus why I can't go with the 65" vs 65" Samsung. What's the better buy, this WON'T be used as a monitor, just my living room TV.
Still no replies to my question -- if anyone could help me out. I can't decide if the Vizio is the better buy for FALD or the Samsung KS8000 for "quantum dot" - it's $1799 for a 55 Samsung or $1999 for the 65 Vizio -- needdddd some advice :)
 

kabobi

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Still no replies to my question -- if anyone could help me out. I can't decide if the Vizio is the better buy for FALD or the Samsung KS8000 for "quantum dot" - it's $1799 for a 55 Samsung or $1999 for the 65 Vizio -- needdddd some advice :)

I mean, the best way to know is to see both on display in Best Buy, if that's a possibility for you.

General consensus is that the Vizio: has much better blacks and uniformity due to FALD, is more reflective (so better in dark room), supports both HDR10 and DV. The Samsung: has a wider color gamut, colors have more "pop" (more saturated), less reflective, and better upscaling of sub-1080p content.

Decide which of those aspects you value most first, then pick the TV accordingly.
 

delita

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I mean, the best way to know is to see both on display in Best Buy, if that's a possibility for you.

General consensus is that the Vizio: has much better blacks and uniformity due to FALD, is more reflective (so better in dark room), supports both HDR10 and DV. The Samsung: has a wider color gamut, colors have more "pop" (more saturated), less reflective, and better upscaling of sub-1080p content.

Decide which of those aspects you value most first, then pick the TV accordingly.
Good call. Going to go to Best Buy this weekend and see them both. Vizio also has 5% off first time purchases direct from their website, so $1899 total for a 65", might be hard to beat that. The 65" Samsung is significantly higher.
 

kabobi

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Good call. Going to go to Best Buy this weekend and see them both. Vizio also has 5% off first time purchases direct from their website, so $1899 total for a 65", might be hard to beat that. The 65" Samsung is significantly higher.

keep in mind that best buy will match the 5% off from Vizio. You could also try to get them to match the tax-free aspect of buying direct from Vizio.
 

thomaslfessler

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These sets should be showing up at your local Costco. YMMV. The low price on these tuner free displays caught me by surprise at the Warehouse on Friday. The addition of a DP port could have placed these displays at par with Crossover / AMH. The 90 day return policy is a great option for anyone on the fence for grabbing one.
 

kabobi

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These sets should be showing up at your local Costco. YMMV. The low price on these tuner free displays caught me by surprise at the Warehouse on Friday. The addition of a DP port could have placed these displays at par with Crossover / AMH. The 90 day return policy is a great option for anyone on the fence for grabbing one.

You actually saw 2016 P series at Costco?

I was under the impression that Costco is only carrying the D, E, and (soon) M series until August when Best Buy's exclusivity deal with Vizio ends.
 

delita

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I went ahead and purchased at BB this weekend. I went with the 55", the GF actually turned me down on the 65" as our couch is literally 5ft from the display, she thought it too big.

BB price matched the 5% off at Vizio and allowed me to schedule free delivery. I also played with the SmartCast remote in the store and it's pretty slick. Definitely excited to get it set up when I move in a couple of weeks.
 

blak0137

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I bought the 65" a couple weeks ago and I have been pretty impressed with it as a TV. I have not attempted to connect a computer to it yet but from a color and clarity standpoint it looks as good as the UN40JU7100 I have as my computer monitor. I can say that all google cast functionality (the chromecast built in to the TV) works on both wireless and via a wired ethernet (which is what I use) connection. I have casted to the TV from both the included android tablet and my iPhone with Netflix (which DOES support 4k casting), HBO GO, Vudu, and Plex all of which work pretty well. Netflix and Vudu both support casting with Dolby Vision as well.
 

ForgedReality

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Crutchfield now has the UN48JS9000 for $1499. Way better price than has ever been presented. I'm still torn between this and the Vizio P50-C1 though. Neither set is perfect, but which one is the best for me? :/
 

Aluminum

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Crutchfield now has the UN48JS9000 for $1499. Way better price than has ever been presented. I'm still torn between this and the Vizio P50-C1 though. Neither set is perfect, but which one is the best for me? :/

BJs has been selling the un48js9000 for $999 w/ free shipping for over a week, online (no membership required) and in-store. Not sure why none of the deal sites or other forums have noticed yet? Doesn't show up in google shopping search but its definitely there. Not since last years cell phone + rebate deal has there been a better time to get one.

Until a PC person w/ a good camera proves the 4:4:4 mode is really working on the 2016 Ps I'd go with the samsung as a PC/gaming monitor unless 4k is too hard for your GPU, otherwise 1080p@120hz is nice. As a TV, the vizio is possibly better overall, though the samsung is definitely good for HDR etc.
 

kabobi

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BJs has been selling the un48js9000 for $999 w/ free shipping for over a week, online (no membership required) and in-store. Not sure why none of the deal sites or other forums have noticed yet? Doesn't show up in google shopping search but its definitely there. Not since last years cell phone + rebate deal has there been a better time to get one.

Until a PC person w/ a good camera proves the 4:4:4 mode is really working on the 2016 Ps I'd go with the samsung as a PC/gaming monitor unless 4k is too hard for your GPU, otherwise 1080p@120hz is nice. As a TV, the vizio is possibly better overall, though the samsung is definitely good for HDR etc.

There are plenty of people on the 2016 Vizio P owner's thread on AVSforum that use theirs with a PC and there are no indications that 4:4:4 is not working.
 

Luke M

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There are plenty of people on the 2016 Vizio P owner's thread on AVSforum that use theirs with a PC and there are no indications that 4:4:4 is not working.

Probably not a single one is using it as a text oriented monitor. For games and youtube, I'm sure it's fine.
 

Snowknight26

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There are plenty of people on the 2016 Vizio P owner's thread on AVSforum that use theirs with a PC and there are no indications that 4:4:4 is not working.

My Marantz receiver says that it receives a 4:4:4 signal successfully but the TV does something internally that only shows maybe 4:2:2. It's somewhat disappointing but I'll live.
 

Lateralus

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That is disappointing. These things are close to being nearly perfect but the janky 4:4:4 and the fact that they don't come in smaller sizes stinks. But image quality is reported to be great and 120hz @ 1080p is something I'd really like to have. It's just not quite enough to make me do a sidegrade from my Samsung. I was hoping that Sony would have something juicy up their sleeves for 2016, although I doubt they're perfect either. None of these seem to be, and I suspect that will be the case for OLED as well, although we'll probably be willing to live with some compromises in order to have the stunning picture quality that they provide.
 

Aluminum

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There are plenty of people on the 2016 Vizio P owner's thread on AVSforum that use theirs with a PC and there are no indications that 4:4:4 is not working.

Unfortunately zero of them have posted a picture showing the subpixel mapping is working. AVS doesn't have a lot of [H] type PC users, even less that own a 2016 P.

Bandit's is the closest I've seen but unfortunately his phone/tablet pictures are not good enough to show it, if anything it hints that it might be 4:2:2. The rtings comment really drives me nuts, they really should have put up some info to go along with a claim like that.
 

bandit390

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Unfortunately zero of them have posted a picture showing the subpixel mapping is working. AVS doesn't have a lot of [H] type PC users, even less that own a 2016 P.

Bandit's is the closest I've seen but unfortunately his phone/tablet pictures are not good enough to show it, if anything it hints that it might be 4:2:2. The rtings comment really drives me nuts, they really should have put up some info to go along with a claim like that.

I have come to the conclusion that the camera is good enough and what you see is the "fuzzy" that rtings mentioned. But I haven't seen correct 4:4:4 in person to compare.

Since my last post, I took my 50" back and bought the Dell S2716DG and a Vizio 65" p series.
 
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kabobi

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That is disappointing. These things are close to being nearly perfect but the janky 4:4:4 and the fact that they don't come in smaller sizes stinks. But image quality is reported to be great and 120hz @ 1080p is something I'd really like to have. It's just not quite enough to make me do a sidegrade from my Samsung. I was hoping that Sony would have something juicy up their sleeves for 2016, although I doubt they're perfect either. None of these seem to be, and I suspect that will be the case for OLED as well, although we'll probably be willing to live with some compromises in order to have the stunning picture quality that they provide.

Out of curiosity, in what usage scenarios does having 1080p@120Hz become significant? Are they only PC-specific?

After looking through the AVSforum thread more, there are some mentions of the 4:4:4 being "blurry" or "fuzzy" compared to usual. So I guess the conclusion is that while the TV is 4:4:4 capable, something doesn't look right. To me, this might mean a future firmware update would fix it.
 

blak0137

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If someone gives throws a link up for the test image and tells me what I need to do/take a picture of, I can connect my PC with a GTX970 that definitely pushed 4:4:4 to my Sammy UN40JU7100 to the P65 and post whatever pictures you want.
 

Snowknight26

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If someone gives throws a link up for the test image and tells me what I need to do/take a picture of, I can connect my PC with a GTX970 that definitely pushed 4:4:4 to my Sammy UN40JU7100 to the P65 and post whatever pictures you want.

I did the same thing (GTX 970 via HDMI) but blue text with a red background was still subpar.

However, if you want to test, use this image: http://i.rtings.com/images/Chroma-444.png
 

Lateralus

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Just for reference, here are shots of my Samsung JS9000 in Game (4:2:2) and PC (4:4:4) modes. The only camera I currently have at my disposal is my iPhone 6 but hopefully you'll be able to discern a clear difference. I definitely can, both in real life and in the full size pics (I think Photobucket shrinks/compresses them).

Game mode (4:2:2)


PC mode (4:4:4)
 

Aluminum

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I totally forgot about the other test image, it has a clever subpixel layout and a lot easier to quickly check. Be sure to open it in an image viewer at 100% no scaling. I feel like an idiot forgetting this since I've been using madvr for years.

I'd really like to nail down exactly what vizios can do before I decide what to do on my warranty.
 

blak0137

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Alright, I connected the TV up and verified that HDMI Color Subsampling was enabled for that input and I can say that its running 4:2:2 at 4k@60hz. The MadVR test image was pretty clearly 4:2:2 when compared to my 40ju7100 which was clearly 4:4:4.
 

bandit390

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Just for reference, here are shots of my Samsung JS9000 in Game (4:2:2) and PC (4:4:4) modes. The only camera I currently have at my disposal is my iPhone 6 but hopefully you'll be able to discern a clear difference. I definitely can, both in real life and in the full size pics (I think Photobucket shrinks/compresses them).

Game mode (4:2:2)


Your 4:2:2 picture looks like my 4:4:4 picture that came from my p series.
 

blak0137

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Update, I just got off the phone with Vizio advanced tech support and they recognize that there is an issue after showing my results and walking through settings on the computer and TV. They are bringing it to engineering to try and diagnose the issue, hopefully I can get an answer and a fix sometime soon.
 

kabobi

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Update, I just got off the phone with Vizio advanced tech support and they recognize that there is an issue after showing my results and walking through settings on the computer and TV. They are bringing it to engineering to try and diagnose the issue, hopefully I can get an answer and a fix sometime soon.

Thank you for following up on this. It sounds like a firmware issue rather than a hardware deficiency, so hopefully they'll include the fix in the imminent HDR10 firmware update.
 

blak0137

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Thank you for following up on this. It sounds like a firmware issue rather than a hardware deficiency, so hopefully they'll include the fix in the imminent HDR10 firmware update.
No problem, I'd like the TV that I spent $2000 to be working as advertised even if I don't normally have a computer connected to that screen. On the plus side, the Vizio tech support is so far pretty fantastic, talked for an hour to a very knowledgeable person who didn't dismiss my concerns, recognized that there was an issue as soon as he saw the images and committed to taking them to engineering immediately and promised a response early next week.
 

realworld

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Yeah Vizio support is great. It's a big difference comparing a dedicated a/v company vs overly large corporations like Samsung and Sony.
 

Snowknight26

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Yeah Vizio support is great. It's a big difference comparing a dedicated a/v company vs overly large corporations like Samsung and Sony.

That's not always true. I emailed Vizio about the 4:4:4 issue and after about 10 back and forth emails my complaint was brushed aside with a reason of "this is going to be a limitation based on the source device".
 

kabobi

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That's not always true. I emailed Vizio about the 4:4:4 issue and after about 10 back and forth emails my complaint was brushed aside with a reason of "this is going to be a limitation based on the source device".

Were you communicating with their advanced tech support? In my experience, those are the more knowledgeable people.
 
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