20" Apple Cinema Display V.S. Dell 20" 2005 FPW

Isaacav2

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The Apple is $999 while the Dell is $749. What is the difference between the two and which is the better value? I would be using the displays mostly for gaming and watching D.V.D's. I soooo can't afford either of them but I'm getting one on credit :eek: :D :D ou w

I would also go with some kind of an extended warrentee program. Which would you prefer if you were using the specks in my sig. and worked VERY hard for your money. Thanks.
 

MrPrez

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Apple=the best products. For example, a buddy of mine knew the son of an Apple executive. When the first iPod came out, the son told my friend that they were testing a color iPod. And when did the iPod come out? 5 years ago? they spent more than five years testing a color iPod. If they spend five years on something like that, how do you think their displays are going to be? Amazing, is all i can say. Screw Dell. Ive seen a 30" Cinema display in person and i cried. And besides, Apple displays get you chicks. Have fun
 

CopyCat

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^^ Thats funny.

You can get the 2005FPW for as low as $550 with little trouble. Its a better VALUE for sure IMO especially over the 1k for the Apple one. You can also get other monitors below $1000 as well better than the Apply display IMO.

But as you may have read many SEEM to have problems with their 2005 displays. Mine came perfect and I love it to death.

Ciao.
 

agentzero9

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MrPrez said:
Apple=the best products. For example, a buddy of mine knew the son of an Apple executive. When the first iPod came out, the son told my friend that they were testing a color iPod. And when did the iPod come out? 5 years ago? they spent more than five years testing a color iPod. If they spend five years on something like that, how do you think their displays are going to be?


I guess that explains the ipod Shuffle, because that "technology" at that price is about 5 years too late.

Oh, was this about displays?

The 2005FPW offers FAR greater value for the money.
 

ajabbari

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They use very similar LCD panels (both from LG). The 2005FPW will also give you additional inputs, PIP, PBP, and a whole bunch of other on-screen controls to control how the monitor deals with different aspect ratios and resolutions. For a PC based setup the 2005FPW offers a much greater value than the Apple.
 

mj007

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If you want to equate a "better value" to lower cost, then go ahead. The 2005FPW is a piece of shit compared to the ACD. The build quality, picture quality, and backlighting of an Apple is 20x better than the Dell. I had three 2005FPWs that were all defective (dead pixels, and GOD AWFUL backlighting). I finally got fed up after the third one (and that they sent me a refurb) so I returned it for a refund. I am still looking for a panel of that size so I went to my local Apple store last night and checked out the 20" ACD as well as the 23". They looked SO much better than my Dells it wasnt even funny. The blacks were completely uniform across the entire screen, and the whites didnt look pink (despite what some others have reported). Video looked great as well.

The only thing that is making me hesitate to buy one is (1) the stand is not height adjustable and the monitor sits a little low for my taste and (2) it only comes in silver and my case is black. Not huge stepping stones, but... :)

This is coming from a guy who is typically biased against Apple products, but I have to give credit where credit is due, and the Apples absolutely KILL the Dells. The saying "you get what you pay for" never applied more. Sure, the Dells cost less, but they are more likely to be pieces of shit.
 

GeniusInABottle

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Having asked myself this same question, I came to the conclusion that the 20" ACD was the better of the 2, though it's certainly arguable.

The main reason, for me, is because of all the problems about the 2005fpw that I've been coming across on forums all over the internet. Almost every topic I read involving the 2005fpw has at least a few people complaining about dead pixels, leaking/bleeding backlights, and a screendoor effect worse than many other LCDs. (AGAIN: These are all issues I've seen other users post, not issues that I myself have seen, or am saying that every fpw has.)

The positives about the 2005fpw are that it offers more imputs, more adjustments (on the PC side), more functionality (can pivot, do picture in picture, etc), and is generally a less expensive buy--but, the chances of you running into one of the above problems seems to be fairly high and having to RMA something that size (repeatedly, even) isn't a hassle I'm willing to risk.

The ACD is also the more aesthetically pleasing of the 2, with a simple, minimalist design which happens to match my brushed aluminum case. It costs $999 ($899 with my edu discount), but at least if something is wrong with it I can just take it to an Apple Retail store. The lack of a lengthy return time, to me, also helps to justify the price premium.
 

Krazy_Joe

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i agree with the apple people on this one. The apple 20 inch looks fantastic as far as visual quality compaired to the dell. I havent really been impressed with dell's lcd's. I myself own a HP 2335 which i love and the LCD panel is manufactured by LG which is also in apples 23 inch lcd as well.
 

Garage81

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im in the process of selling my 2001fp to get an apple 20" acd.

my dell is under a year old, and the build quality of it is just crap compared to the apple.

IF you can afford it, get the apple. youre paying a premium, but youre getting a premium product.

as far as dell LCDs go, you certainly get what you pay for, it seems their LCD QA department has been on vacation for a year.
 

Martin64

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Garage81 said:
im in the process of selling my 2001fp to get an apple 20" acd.

my dell is under a year old, and the build quality of it is just crap compared to the apple.

IF you can afford it, get the apple. youre paying a premium, but youre getting a premium product.

as far as dell LCDs go, you certainly get what you pay for, it seems their LCD QA department has been on vacation for a year.

Exactly. I'm sure the image quality is equal on the monitors, but the bezel and the rest of the build quality of the Apple is superior. I had a HP L2335 23" widescreen before my Apple and you can't even compare the build quality. Then again, the Apple is more expensive. So you pay extra for build quality. :)
 

Isaacav2

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Thanks for the replys. As far as dead pixes, ghosting, and the backlight issues go... does Apple conduct some kind of a quality control over their displays? It seems to me with all of the problems that the FPW have, the quality control is just not there on the Dell side. Also which offer the best warrentee? What about extended warrentees? Thanks again :)

Leaning twords the Apple :D
 

Isaacav2

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CopyCat said:
^^ Thats funny.

You can get the 2005FPW for as low as $550 with little trouble. Its a better VALUE for sure IMO especially over the 1k for the Apple one. You can also get other monitors below $1000 as well better than the Apply display IMO.

But as you may have read many SEEM to have problems with their 2005 displays. Mine came perfect and I love it to death.

Ciao.

Where can I get an FPW for 550$??
 

mj007

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You can get them for $550 with the 25% LCD coupons. They induce you with a 25% coupon, you think "wow such a deal". They're just trying to dump their shitty products out there. The fact that the nearest competitor's product is at least $300 more expensive should tell you something. The quality control of Apple is definitely a thousand times better than Dell. How many threads online have you seen from people (on any forum, not just here) complaining how crappy their ACD is, and how they're on their 3rd monitor and still not satisfied, and are getting the runaround from non-English speaking techs, and are getting refurbs when they paid for brand new?

Not many, if any at all.
 

CopyCat

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mj007 said:
You can get them for $550 with the 25% LCD coupons. They induce you with a 25% coupon, you think "wow such a deal". They're just trying to dump their shitty products out there. The fact that the nearest competitor's product is at least $300 more expensive should tell you something.

Not many, if any at all.

You speak as if no 2005FPWs are quality? Yet on numerous threads and polls it is proven otherwise. The fact of the matter is the one large issue which it would seem the 2005FPW had was backlighting. Which I can take a guess at saying many would have never noticed if not for the threads.
Furthermore it was a problem and one people should have not been happy with and Dell was happy enough to return, exchange and help the customers several times over, which was honorable on Dells part IMO...

My Dell is incredible and has an extremely crisp clear picture.

You can get the Dell for $550 simply by calling in and asking for their deals...eventually you will get a good one. And if you get one of the great screens many of us have gotten, saving $450 dollars is easily a much better VALUE. Which is what I wanted to answer in the first place.
 

Garage81

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My Dell 2001fp was a great value in the beginning. Your 2005fpw might be great now, but in 6 months, you will have a screen door effect, and you will have backlight issues.

Honestly, Dell LCDs are crap. In 6 months to a year, everyone with a "good" 2005fpw will have problems. The problems are in the manufacturing as a whole.

I've never heard or seen an Apple ACD with backlight issues, uneven blacks, screen door, etc. They really do screen the hell out of these things before they give them to you. Looking back on it, I wish I spent the extra money on the apple, I learned my lesson, its just an expensive $700 lesson.
 

bench261

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you can get the dell for half the apple lcd....i posted some webcam pics on the main thread, and its pretty much perfect....i dunno if i even have backlighting...i just assume i do because almost everyone has it to some degree...i would live with minor backlighting if i can get 500$ off the same lcd...fortunantley for me this one is pretty much perfect without having to play musical chairs with this lcd...if anything, order 2 and just return one...in case its bad
 

ramuman

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A lot of people with the 2005s seem to be settling for a monitor after some frustration. I went through four of them, then had a horrible 131 minute phone call being bounced between two countries before finally getting a fifth replacement - which went straight to eBay since I didn't want to wait another 2 weeks for a refund. Sure the first 3 replacements were easier to come by, but I don't call it great customer service when you have to go through that much trouble to get it replaced.

I woke up the next day, said screw it, I'm getting the Apple 20", went to my University's computer store and to my surprise it rang up as $800+tax ($100 off the student discount). The Dell was about $300 less, but with the Apple I'm not settling for anything. Also, check out eBay prices of the previous generation Apple 20" and tell me people don't value this quality.

Sure the Dell was cheaper, has the same panel, multiple inputs etc., but imo, even at $500, a computer monitor should be near flawless. It's no excuse for the 2005 to have the issues it does when its the most expensive part of your computer and is the one to likely last the longest and the one you stare at daily.

If any other part of your computer were built to the quality control standards of the 2005 in my experience, it would never sell.
 

ajabbari

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I don't dispute that the Apple is the cream of the crop when it comes to widescreen cinema displays. However, if you're on a budget, the Dell is a good value and in most cases the flaws aren't dealbreakers. In the end it depends what you're priorities are.
 

jyi786

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What about ghosting on the Apple? How does the Apple monitor handle this?
 

Isaacav2

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I plan on visiting the Apple Store in the Mall of America sometime this week to look at the 20'' Cinema Display. (We are supposed to be looking for a wedding ring :eek: ) I wish there was a store that would let me compare the two side by side out of the box so that I can decide which one to go with. My first P.C. was a Mac and I respect Apple, as believer in quality products and getting what you paid for, I plan on biting the bullet and start looking for another credit card to use :eek:
I was over on Widescreengamingforums.com and saw a simular post to this one, except no one seemed to like the Apple. Does anyone know how the two compare when it comes to gaming and watching DVD's?
 

bench261

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when i 1st started reading all these backlighting threads, i was pretty skeptical on receiving a good one...specially with my luck. so i guess i positively jinxed myself and i ended up getting a good one. the deal was so good that it lured me to take a chance...worst comes to worst, you can just get a refund....an extra 500$ is worth the effort. some ppl get a perfect one on the 1st try, others go as far as 4...but then again different ppl have different expectations. if i knew it was this good i would have bought 2 for a similar price with one 20' apple
 

ajabbari

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One thing you should keep in mind using the Apple with a PC is that the only hardware controls on it are for brightness. It won't give you control its handling of non-native resolutions and aspect ratios like the Dell does. Therefore for certain gaming situations the Dell gives you more options.
 

Isaacav2

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ajabbari said:
One thing you should keep in mind using the Apple with a PC is that the only hardware controls on it are for brightness. It won't give you control its handling of non-native resolutions and aspect ratios like the Dell does. Therefore for certain gaming situations the Dell gives you more options.


Thanks for the important piece of information........... now I'm back to square one..... :p
 

ramuman

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NVidia's Forceware drivers have supported the 3 types of scaling (pixel to pixel, stretch to fit, strech and keep aspect ratio) in sofrware for some time now. I'm sure ATi's Catalysts do the same. If it is card dependent or not I do not know.
 

TSS Modder

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definately go for the Apple. like everyone says, you're paying for the quality, and the quality is well worth it.

for those saying that dell's lcds are horrible, thats not entirely true. i ordered their 17in 1704FPV and its incredible. absolutely perfect, and id say the build quality is pretty good, too. but definately not as good as a apple.

go for the apple. you won't be disappointed.
 

Mons

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I would like to read a review concerning the use of a 20" or 23" cinema display on a PC.
 

firey-eyez

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look at it this way. the 2005FPW is a better value; the apple is a better screen. they are quite similar however the apple is better because apple's quality control is higher. how many severe back lighting problems have you heard with apple screens? i thought so. having said that, my 2005FPW is fine for my usage; which is pretty much WoW/CSS/FT/web browsing. it has some backlighting problems but for $630 shipped w/ tax its a very good value. extra inputs/PiP can be very handy if your the type of person who needs those. its got a solidly constructed base and alot of adjustment options. if you value picture IQ over all else, the apple is your only option; or maybe some high end Lacie LCD or something. dell wont compete with those in picture quality tests if absolute accuracy is important to you
 

zan780

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Apple was having quality control problems with their panels in November. People were receiving panels that had a strong pink or yellow hue across the display. I have no idea if this was resolved. In addition, Apple has recently recalled a number of IBook laptops for having defective motherboards and some of the PowerBooks were having serious battery issues.

Buy the apple cinema display if you like its look over the dell, but do not think for one second that you are somehow getting a product that was inspected by some crack-job QA squadron.

Higher quality exterior sure, nicer on the inside I would disagree. I have owned numerous apple products and they are subject to the same electronic defects and inspection over sites as most other manufacturers.

When you’re paying for apple, you’re paying a lot for a name and a "status" and not so much for a better product.
 

agentzero9

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CopyCat said:
You speak as if no 2005FPWs are quality? Yet on numerous threads and polls it is proven otherwise. The fact of the matter is the one large issue which it would seem the 2005FPW had was backlighting. Which I can take a guess at saying many would have never noticed if not for the threads.
Furthermore it was a problem and one people should have not been happy with and Dell was happy enough to return, exchange and help the customers several times over, which was honorable on Dells part IMO...

My Dell is incredible and has an extremely crisp clear picture.

You can get the Dell for $550 simply by calling in and asking for their deals...eventually you will get a good one. And if you get one of the great screens many of us have gotten, saving $450 dollars is easily a much better VALUE. Which is what I wanted to answer in the first place.

This easily sums up my thoughts. My 2005FPW is perfect. I would not pay $400 more for a ACD.

I grant it has better asthetics (although the 2005FPW looks excellent and will certainly still 'wow' most people) and the build quality on the ACD may be better as well. But to be honest I've owned about 4 LCDs (from Samsung to Viewsonic) and the DELL has just as good if not better build quality than the rest. This issue is just overblown IMO. I have never wished ANY of my LCDs, "had better build quality." Where do I want build quality? In my digital camrera: yes, in my cell phone: yes, in my PDA: yes... in my LCD... well it's not really something I've had a problem with, or even considered.
 

isp

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ramuman said:
NVidia's Forceware drivers have supported the 3 types of scaling (pixel to pixel, stretch to fit, strech and keep aspect ratio) in sofrware for some time now. I'm sure ATi's Catalysts do the same. If it is card dependent or not I do not know.
How you liking those cans? ;) :D
 

synergyo1

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Isaacav2 said:
I plan on visiting the Apple Store in the Mall of America sometime this week to look at the 20'' Cinema Display. (We are supposed to be looking for a wedding ring :eek: ) I wish there was a store that would let me compare the two side by side out of the box so that I can decide which one to go with. My first P.C. was a Mac and I respect Apple, as believer in quality products and getting what you paid for, I plan on biting the bullet and start looking for another credit card to use :eek:
I was over on Widescreengamingforums.com and saw a simular post to this one, except no one seemed to like the Apple. Does anyone know how the two compare when it comes to gaming and watching DVD's?

Check out the 30in while you are at it :p
 

Laforge

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Can I just say this?


Samsung 213T ?

It may be a "25ms response time" officially, but I tell you, I'm running @ 75hz, so I don't quite know how that can be for one.. and 2.. I have absolutely 0 ghosting of any sort, even in very advanced games
 

Isaacav2

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Laforge said:
Can I just say this?


Samsung 213T ?

It may be a "25ms response time" officially, but I tell you, I'm running @ 75hz, so I don't quite know how that can be for one.. and 2.. I have absolutely 0 ghosting of any sort, even in very advanced games

Thanks for the reply, but I was really hoping for a widescreen solution. It will be a great second choice LCD if I dont find a good enough widescreen LCD gaming display. For my "budget" of <1000$
 

Laforge

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Isaacav2 said:
Thanks for the reply, but I was really hoping for a widescreen solution. It will be a great second choice LCD if I dont find a good enough widescreen LCD gaming display. For my "budget" of <1000$


It *IS* widescreen, and it rotates, too.. to "tall" mode


i think what you mean is you want a 1920x1080 (like the 243T 1920x1200) screen.. Which it is not..
 

GeniusInABottle

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Laforge said:
It *IS* widescreen, and it rotates, too.. to "tall" mode


i think what you mean is you want a 1920x1080 (like the 243T 1920x1200) screen.. Which it is not..

Samsung 213T

That is not widescreen, thats a normal 4:3 ratio LCD. Widescreen LCDs are typically 16:10.
 

jhego

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I have a 2005FPW and it works really great. No dead pixels or severe backlight bleeding.
 

mj007

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My point was, you're taking a gamble by purchasing a 2005FPW. It's hit or miss, and seems more likely "miss" judging by my own experiences (in addition to the countless others online). Why spend $550 and be less than satisfied? That is a lot of money, any way you slice it. Spend the extra money (in my case I can get a 20" ACD for $850) and get a quality product THE FIRST TIME around that you are not settling for (and don't have to send back 4 times, and spend 2 hours on the phone being bounced around EVERY TIME you call for each replacement). Isn't the time you waste with Dell worth something (like peace of mind as well as a premium price)?

$550 is a lot of money to merely settle and rationalize "oh the gray splotchy blacks are not that bad" ,"oh 2 dead pixels is okay". When shelling out that kind of green, it should have as close to flawless backlighting and ZERO dead pixels. Go to the Apple store and see it in person, something you can't do for Dells.
 

ajabbari

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mj007 said:
My point was, you're taking a gamble by purchasing a 2005FPW. It's hit or miss, and seems more likely "miss" judging by my own experiences (in addition to the countless others online). Why spend $550 and be less than satisfied? That is a lot of money, any way you slice it. Spend the extra money (in my case I can get a 20" ACD for $850) and get a quality product THE FIRST TIME around that you are not settling for (and don't have to send back 4 times, and spend 2 hours on the phone being bounced around EVERY TIME you call for each replacement). Isn't the time you waste with Dell worth something (like peace of mind as well as a premium price)?

$550 is a lot of money to merely settle and rationalize "oh the gray splotchy blacks are not that bad" ,"oh 2 dead pixels is okay". When shelling out that kind of green, it should have as close to flawless backlighting and ZERO dead pixels. Go to the Apple store and see it in person, something you can't do for Dells.

As far as I know, Apple doesn't have a zero dead pixel policy. On any LCD this size with this resolution it isn't unreasonable for there to be 1 or 2 dead pixels. Yeah, I know a lot of people are arguing the principle of getting a perfect screen, but at this point in time with LCDs that doesn't coincide with reality. My point of view on this is that if you can't deal with the possibility of having a dead pixel, your just aren't ready for LCDs (or LCDs aren't ready for you). Yes by going with the ACD you'd avoid the possiblilty of running into backlighting issues, but as someone who owns a 2005FPW with minor backlighting issues, I really don't think that the price difference is worth it.
 

Sidane

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Well I got a 2005FPW this morning and posted about it in the other mammoth 2005 topic. Revision A00, manufactured November 2004. It has massive backlight problems and 4 dead pixels.

The dead pixels I can handle, 4 in over 1 million ain't bad. But the backlighting just destroys what is otherwise a sweet LCD monitor. I'm gonna email Dell later and demand a Revision A01, manufactured January 2005 or my money back.

Chances of getting an A01 (especially in Ireland) are slim but it's worth a try.

Having read this topic, the ACD certainly looks like an excellent alternative....only it's 250 euro more expensive! ;)

Only problems I see are

- The non adjustable stand, I have 5.1 sound with a centre speaker that I want to fit under the monitor, from pictures the ACD may be too low down for that which = major hassle.
- whether or not it is a good solution for gaming when it comes to response rate/ghosting. Not being able to adjust the display for non-native resolutions like the 2005fpw could be a problem as well.

I'll have to do some reading up on this monitor, reviews and such.
 
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