2.1 speaker suggestions

[peterf]

Hello everyone!

I'm hoping to get some advice for a decent pair of 2.1 speakers for my desktop. As I was waiting for my account to be validated, I had a chance to creep the "Computer Audio" section for other 2.1 threads but I didn't find anything particularly conclusive.

I currently use the onboard sound card to my desktop PC but I plan on purchasing and installing the economical but effective Asus Xonar DG. My budget is flexible but I really don't feel like spending much more than 150. It'd be ideal if I could spend less than 100 including the sound card but I'm open to ideas.

I reside in Vancouver, BC, Canada so I'm subject to relatively high taxes and shipping expenses. However, next week I'm planning a road trip down to tax free Portland, Oregon.

I believe I have 3 or 4 options based on my limited knowledge:

1. $155 - Buy a Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 from Bestbuy while visiting Portland
2. $175 - Ship a Swan M10 from AudioInsider to Canada or a US shipping address (15 dollars cheaper)
3. 79 + tax - Order a Altec Lansing Expressionist (MX6021) from NCIX. Less than perfect reviews but the thing is on sale...
4. $?? - build some kind of bookshelf speaker combo

Important notes:

• I don't need power/output/volume. I prefer sound clarity and quality. I have a fairly small room and the walls seem to be paper thin. I have little motivation in trying to annoy the family and neighbours as my 40 watt guitar tube amp does a sufficient job.
• I like to listen to classical, acoustic guitar, jazz, and the occasional hip hop, rock, and pop music
• I game once in a while but audio hasn't been a big factor for me
• I watch movies and tv shows but prefer sound quality over quantity (output)

Could you guys please provide any advice one which option I should pursue or any options I've left out?

Thanks for your time!

 

[spaceman]

If you are in canada, look at your local listings for used paradigm speakers and a receiver or amp. Paradigm is a Canadian company that makes very good and affordable speakers. You should be able to find a pair of atoms around $100. They will destroy anything on your list in terms of quality sound.

 

[counterpoint]

The Xonar DG is a solid choice for a limited budget. As for speakers, I would go with one of the first two options, Klipsch or Swans. The Corsair SP2500 also gets recommended, but I recommend doing your own research. I do see that you mentioned a preference for sound quality so that would push me to recommend the Swans M10. But do keep in mind that you have to keep the midwoofer/bass module on your desk and not on the floor. I have the Swans Diva 6.1s in faux black cherry; great full range speakers and have been a fan of Swans products ever since. I see that you listen to classical/guitar/jazz. For that kind of music, you want the fullest range speakers you can get, meaning big enclosures and drivers. Bookshelfs would be the best for that kind of music, but Swans would also do better than the competition in that department with their 3" drivers and midwoofer. But since you don't want to disturb your neighbors, in your case the Swans M10 would be the best choice.

I wish Logitech would bring back the sub from the Z-2300 and pair in satellites with 3+inch drivers. I think that would be just great. Or that Klipsch bring back the 5.1 Ultra sub and pair in a set of quality satellites with 3+ inch drivers. I miss the older stuff that got discontinued. The new stuff that gets produced now by those companies is complete crap. =(

After the amp in my Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1 died for the second time, I went to a bookshelfs+amp+subwoofer combo and never looked back. I now have Polk Monitor30 bookshelfs, an Emotiva BPA-1 amp (now mini-X a-100), and an Emotiva Ultra Sub 10 (discontinued, bought for $290). On the bright side, I gave the Klipsch satellites to my uncle for his living room and paired them to a receiver and a Polk PSW10 sub (great sub for $90).

 

[peterf]

Thanks for your input Spaceman and Counterpoint!

Spaceman: I looked through a couple local listings and I only saw a single still in-box Paradigm Atom for 115 and a undescribed pair for around 90. I contacted both sellers for more details.

Counterpoint: I'm leaning more towards the Swan M10 but the price does seem to be higher than a bookshelf combo and bit higher than the Klipsch. Are these the Polk Monitor30 you purchased?

Do 2 bookshelf monitors work adequately without a sub (i.e still have bass but not too much bass)?
If anyone has experience doing audio shopping in Oregon, does anyone have any suggestions on places I should stop by (BestBuy,Fry's, etc.)?

Thanks!

 

[450]

Nevermind.

 

[duranzo]

If the Logitech z2300 were still available I'd reccommend them hands down, but no longer available =(

 

[counterpoint]

Counterpoint: I'm leaning more towards the Swan M10 but the price does seem to be higher than a bookshelf combo and bit higher than the Klipsch. Are these the Polk Monitor30 you purchased?

Do 2 bookshelf monitors work adequately without a sub (i.e still have bass but not too much bass)?
If anyone has experience doing audio shopping in Oregon, does anyone have any suggestions on places I should stop by (BestBuy,Fry's, etc.)?

Thanks!

These are the Polk Monitor30 Series II I was referring to and I bought them last fall for $90 shipped when they were on sale (sign up to their email newsletter, they weekly send out ads for their sales). As a Canadian resident (I think NCIX is your Newegg equivalent) I'm not sure what the availability or prices will be for you.

The reason why I prefer bookshelf+amp is the size of the drivers/enclosure and the fact you have control of the quality of each component and the ability to replace it down the line without having to scrap the whole system. When my Klipsch Ultra 5.1 amp died I had to scrap the sub+amp since its one unit. I could have still used the satellites (since they have spring loaded speaker terminals) but at that point I decided I might as well go with larger bookshelfs. A pair of bookshelfs without a sub would be just fine if you have really sensitive neighbors (since low frequencies travel far and through walls) but if you go with a small subwoofer like a Polk PSW10 for a mere $90 it will help to fill in the 20Hz-80Hz frequencies that small bookshelf speakers struggle with. That Polk only puts out 50W RMS and 100W peak but it gets great reviews for what it is and for that price. The Polk Monitor30s go down to 55Hz but in reality its probably at a much lower output than at 100Hz (haven't measured myself). You can always go with just a 2.0 bookshelf setup and pick up a subwoofer down the road if you feel the need for one. Something like the Polk Monitor30s would be better (IMO) than the Swans M10.

As for speakers, you have a number of options:

Polk Monitor30: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290200

Polk Monitor40: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290202

Infinity Classia C205BK: http://amzn.com/B0015YTYKM

Infinity Primus P153 Two-Way 5 1/4-Inch Bookshelf: http://amzn.com/B004649W1Y

Infinity Primus P163BK Two-way 6 1/2-Inch Bookshelf: http://amzn.com/B0045NCB32

BIC America DV62si Bookshelf Speakers: http://amzn.com/B00006JPDI

Pioneer SP-BS41-LR 2CH Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117406

Pioneer SP-BS21-LR Bookshelf Loudspeakers Pair: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405

Energy RC10: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542469405

As for amps:

Emotiva mini-X a-100: http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/a100

SPECIFICATIONS

Channels: 2

Power output: 50 watts/channel into 8 ohms; 80 watts/channel into 4 ohms

Signal to Noise Ratio: 95 dB

Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz
+ / - 0.08 dB; - 1.0 dB at 80 kHz

Input sensitivity (for full output into 8 ohms): 600 mV

Output devices: 2 per channel

Power requirements: 115 VAC / 230 VAC
(+ / - 10%); selectable by rear panel switch

Size:
unboxed: 8.5" wide x 3.125" high x 15" deep
boxed: 12.25" wide x 6.75" high x 18" deep

Weight: 11.4 lbs (14.3 lbs boxed)

It has input auto-sensing so you don't have to manually turn it on, a 12V trigger, and RCA line outs for an optional subwoofer. BTW, the fan on the heatsink only runs when the amp is being driven at high volumes, and thus wouldn't be heard anyway. Emotiva usually puts a lot of their products on sale (including this) during the holidays (Halloween, Black Friday, Christmas, etc.)



Audioengine N22: http://audioengineusa.com/Audioengine-N22

Topping T-amps: http://www.parts-express.com/brand/topping/470

edit: These don't have a line-out so you would have to use speaker level inputs to hook up a subwoofer.

ex: Topping TP22

Subwoofers:

Polk PSW10: http://amzn.com/B0002KVQBA

Klipsch KW-100: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780097

BIC America F12: http://amzn.com/B0015A8Y5M

Think it over. Pick your poison. Be happy. Also look into older/vintage speakers/receivers/amps at reduced prices.

 

[peterf]

If the Logitech z2300 were still available I'd reccommend them hands down, but no longer available =(

I think I might be able to buy a used z2300 for 50 dollars through a local posting but I'd have to drive over an hour to a different city to pick it up. The poster replied telling me it was in good condition.

 

[peterf]

These are the Polk Monitor30 Series II I was referring to and I bought them last fall for $90 shipped when they were on sale (sign up to their email newsletter, they weekly send out ads for their sales). As a Canadian resident (I think NCIX is your Newegg equivalent) I'm not sure what the availability or prices will be for you.

The reason why I prefer bookshelf+amp is the size of the drivers/enclosure and the fact you have control of the quality of each component and the ability to replace it down the line without having to scrap the whole system. When my Klipsch Ultra 5.1 amp died I had to scrap the sub+amp for satellites. I could have still used the satellites (since they have spring loaded speaker terminals) but at that point I decided I might as well go with larger bookshelfs. A pair of bookshelfs without a sub would be just fine if you have really sensitive neighbors (since low frequencies travel far and through walls) but if you go with a small subwoofer like a Polk PSW10 for a mere $90 it will help to fill in the 20Hz-80Hz frequencies that small bookshelf speakers struggle with. That Polk only puts out 50W RMS and 100W peak but it gets great reviews for what it is and for that price. The Polk Monitor30s go down to 55Hz but in reality its probably at a much lower output than at 100Hz (haven't measured myself).

As for speakers, you have a number of options:

...

Think it over. Pick your poison. Be happy. Also look into older/vintage speakers/receivers/amps at reduced prices.

That was an impressive post.

If I go down the bookshelf combo route, I'm thinking either the pioneer SP-BS21, Polk Monitor30, or perhaps a used Paradigm Atom as spaceman pointed out earlier.

Another factor that is important to me is low power consumption: I really don't care about how loud the system can get as long as I can play it at audible levels with good clarity.

In regards to bass, can a 2.0 system (just the bookshelf monitors) pack enough bass to consider not buying a sub right away? I like bass but I don't need the glass in my room or my ribcage to vibrate to the beat.

Thanks!

 

[counterpoint]

Another factor that is important to me is low power consumption: I really don't care about how loud the system can get as long as I can play it at audible levels with good clarity.

T-amps are known for their low power consumption, but keep in mind the Topping amps don't have a line-out for a sub. I'm not familiar with whatever else is out there. Class A/B amps definitely draw more power, but the Emotiva amp I mentioned has a built in auto-sense feature so it turns off by itself when its not in use.

In regards to bass, can a 2.0 system (just the bookshelf monitors) pack enough bass to consider not buying a sub right away? I like bass but I don't need the glass in my room or my ribcage to vibrate to the beat.

Thanks!

You're asking the wrong guy, lol. I'm almost a bass freak. I can never get enough. One person's nightmare is another person's heaven and vice versa. Only you can make that decision for yourself. Personally, I wouldn't feel right without a sub if you went with any of the bookshelfs mentioned here, and especially the smaller Pioneer BS21s. But you have nothing to lose by not purchasing a sub right away.

 

[peterf]

T-amps are known for their low power consumption, but keep in mind the Topping amps don't have a line-out for a sub. I'm not familiar with whatever else is out there. Class A/B amps definitely draw more power, but the Emotiva amp I mentioned has a built in auto-sense feature so it turns off by itself when its not in use.



You're asking the wrong guy, lol. I'm almost a bass freak. I can never get enough. One person's nightmare is another person's heaven and vice versa. Only you can make that decision for yourself. Personally, I wouldn't feel right without a sub if you went with any of the bookshelfs mentioned here, and especially the smaller Pioneer BS21s. But you have nothing to lose by not purchasing a sub right away.

Gotcha. Most of the amps you recommended are above my preferred price range. Can I get your opinion on the Lepai range that some other threads have mentioned?

 

[counterpoint]

I think I might be able to buy a used z2300 for 50 dollars through a local posting but I'd have to drive over an hour to a different city to pick it up. The poster replied telling me it was in good condition.

The Logitech z2300 has an amazing sub if you like to listen to pop/rap. I personally liked the Klipsch Ultra 5.1 sub a lot more when it came to classical/jazz/rock. The z2300 has small satellites and that is their biggest weak point. The older and larger Logitech satellites (Logitech Z-2200) used to be much better IMO. So, the crossover is set really high and can get quite boomy with certain music that has a lot of mids (guitar, jazz, voice). Like I said earlier, I wish Logitech would release that sub with a lower crossover and larger satellites (3-3.5+ inch woofers).

 

[counterpoint]

Gotcha. Most of the amps you recommended are above my preferred price range. Can I get your opinion on the Lepai range that some other threads have mentioned?

Sorry, I can't really give an opinion on something I don't know anything about. All I can say is that other than the Lepai 4x45W, the others don't have a line-out for a sub. But if you're on a really tight budget and don't feel like spending a bit more for a bookshelf+amp setup, I don't think there is anything wrong with going with the Swans M10. They seem like a good value. Its just that I learned from experience that you get what you pay for and I now prefer to spend a bit more for higher quality.

There's always a chance to pick up a nice used receiver/amp on ebay/craigslist for under $100 if you're willing to go that route.

 

[counterpoint]

More considerations:


Dayton Audio DTA-100a Class-T Digital Mini Amplifier 50 WPC: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-383

This is a great choice, great price, and they even give you all the connectors you need! To me this is the best value amp that I've found and I would easily pick this over the Topping TP21 or the Lepai amps. I think this is your best bet.

You can watch the PE video demo here: http://youtu.be/v10Xy2pQzgo



Dayton Audio APA150 150W Power Amplifier: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-812

This is the exact same amp that I use now (rebadged Emotiva BPA-1, also has the auto-sense feature). I think this is a better value compared to the mini-X. Here's a review of the amp where they make some comparisons to the DTA-100a.

Emotiva BPA-1:

Actually, I just remembered, if you go with a subwoofer like a Polk PSW10, Dayton, or BIC that has speaker level inputs, you can use that to hook it up, negating the need for a line-out, but I prefer not to use that method. See diagrams:

So far, the Dayton APA150 is my #1 choice for an amp in terms of power and sound quality (since its cheaper than the Emotiva) if you can swing it.

 

[counterpoint]

More subs...


Dayton Audio SUB-800 8" 80 Watt Powered Subwoofer: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-627

Dayton Audio SUB-1000 10" 100 Watt Powered Subwoofer: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-628

I would not consider this right now because the larger 12" model is the same price just $5 more for shipping.

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629

Check out PE's video demo here: http://youtu.be/imc2zDzuzeo

 

[counterpoint]

In terms of value, here are my top picks:

Speakers: #1 Polk Monitor30, #2 Pioneer BS41 (at current $100 sales price, otherwise no), #3 BIC DV62si, #4 Pioneer BS21 (at current $50 sales price, otherwise no)
Amp: #1 Dayton DTA-100a (hands down, no contest), #2 Dayton APA150, #3 Topping TP21
Sub: #1 Dayton SUB-1200, #2 Dayton SUB-800 (depending on which bookshelfs you choose), #3 Polk PSW10


Phew, I hope this helps!

 

[counterpoint]

If you really want to save some money on the bookshelfs, you can always go with these cheapies. These might be the best value for you out of all the bookshelfs mentioned here. Paired with a Dayton DTA-100a, I think that would make a killer low budget setup. Thanks, now you got me thinking about getting this for my garage, lol.

Dayton Audio B652 6-1/2" 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Pair: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-652

Or you can do what I always do, buy a few different ones, audition them, and sell the ones you don't want. =p

 

[spaceman]

The Atoms are going to beat the Polks in terms of sound quality. You can't get a better sounding speaker for the money. They have enough bass to use without a sub but you will want to get a sub eventually. The idea is to start with the best pair of speakers you can afford and then build on them. Polks are not bad, they just are not as good as Paradigm.

 

[peterf]

Thanks for all the details Counterpoint! I'm confused about the "DAC" component in the quoted diagram. Is this a necessary item or can an amp be connected directly to a Xonar DG sound card?

 

[peterf]

The Atoms are going to beat the Polks in terms of sound quality. You can't get a better sounding speaker for the money. They have enough bass to use without a sub but you will want to get a sub eventually. The idea is to start with the best pair of speakers you can afford and then build on them. Polks are not bad, they just are not as good as Paradigm.

I'll keep an eye out for some Atoms. Do you have any advice on Paradigm Titans or 3se or Mini Monitor speakers? These are some I see available on local postings.

 

[counterpoint]

Thanks for all the details Counterpoint! I'm confused about the "DAC" component in the quoted diagram. Is this a necessary item or can an amp be connected directly to a Xonar DG sound card?

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't make that diagram. DAC simply stands for "digital to analog converter." Any sound card is essentially a DAC. iPhone/iPod/iPad/Androids/laptops/cameras/etc all have a DAC in them. That Behringer USB DAC is what is used in that diagram instead of a traditional PCI based sound card, which is getting more popular these days. The Xonar DG would be better anyway since it can output 24-bit audio whereas that Behringer is limited to 16-bit. So the answer to your question is, yes, you can connect an amp directly to the Xonar DG. Either use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable and the included 3.5mm to RCA adapter (if you go with the Dayton DTA-100a), or buy a single 3.5mm to RCA cable (which is what I use with my old Audigy2 card). Monoprice sells a variety of lengths and qualities so check their 3.5mm/RCA page here.

 

[spaceman]

I'll keep an eye out for some Atoms. Do you have any advice on Paradigm Titans or 3se or Mini Monitor speakers? These are some I see available on local postings.

Any of them are great for the $$. Very solid and consistent sounding speakers. Great for movies and pc use too.

 

[peterf]

Any of them are great for the $$. Very solid and consistent sounding speakers. Great for movies and pc use too.

could I get your take on audioengine 5 bookshelf speakers?

Someone is offering a pair for 250

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/ele/3243011804.html

Thanks!

 

[peterf]

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't make that diagram. DAC simply stands for "digital to analog converter." Any sound card is essentially a DAC. iPhone/iPod/iPad/Androids/laptops/cameras/etc all have a DAC in them. That Behringer USB DAC is what is used in that diagram instead of a traditional PCI based sound card, which is getting more popular these days. The Xonar DG would be better anyway since it can output 24-bit audio whereas that Behringer is limited to 16-bit. So the answer to your question is, yes, you can connect an amp directly to the Xonar DG. Either use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable and the included 3.5mm to RCA adapter (if you go with the Dayton DTA-100a), or buy a single 3.5mm to RCA cable (which is what I use with my old Audigy2 card). Monoprice sells a variety of lengths and qualities so check their 3.5mm/RCA page here.

I think I decided to go a 2.0 route. I'd like to spend most of my money on decent bookshelf speakers and spend less on a T Amp like the 25 dollar Lepai . I figure I can always scale up later with a fancier amp and sub.

Will a Lepai that's only 20 watts be enough to power bookshelf speakers that are rated at 100 watts? Polk Monitor30 and a lot of the Paradigm speakers are rated with a 100 watt max output.

I'm a bit confused by the whole rating of watts and compatibility.

Thanks!

 

[fss69]

Will a Lepai that's only 20 watts be enough to power bookshelf speakers that are rated at 100 watts? Polk Monitor30 and a lot of the Paradigm speakers are rated with a 100 watt max output.

Thanks!

Yes, those speakers are efficient enough a relatively weak Lepai should handle them just fine.

 

[m3ta1head]

could I get your take on audioengine 5 bookshelf speakers?

Someone is offering a pair for 250

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/ele/3243011804.html

Thanks!

I'd advise against it, they are overpriced. Your best option is to go with an amp+passive bookshelves. Alternatively, you could go for something powered, like the 2.1 set I have: http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?products_id=167 I like the Swans because they are small, convenient and easy to setup (no crossover tweaking , etc) while still retaining excellent fidelity/sound quality. They won't push as much air as a bigger set of bookshelves, though.

 

[Impulse]

That was an impressive post.

If I go down the bookshelf combo route, I'm thinking either the pioneer SP-BS21, Polk Monitor30, or perhaps a used Paradigm Atom as spaceman pointed out earlier.

Another factor that is important to me is low power consumption: I really don't care about how loud the system can get as long as I can play it at audible levels with good clarity.

In regards to bass, can a 2.0 system (just the bookshelf monitors) pack enough bass to consider not buying a sub right away? I like bass but I don't need the glass in my room or my ribcage to vibrate to the beat.

Thanks!

Bookshelves plus a T-amp would be my choice given the scenarios you've described and budget you've stated. I like the Infinity P153/163 ($130-150) because the front firing port makes placement easier, but several other great recommendations were posted above along with those.

If you're on a very tight budget you can also take a look at the Lepai amp Parts Express and/or Amazon sell, don't let the $25 price tag fool you, it might not have some of the input/output options of the Toppings or look as nice but it's very solid, specially if you aren't pushing the volume to 11.

None of those bookshelves will put out the kind of bass that a sub can obviously, but neither can most PC speaker subs anyway (they play a distorted loose approximation of what low notes should sound like really). A decent sub would swallow your whole budget IMO. The Swans would probably be the best choice after passive bookshelves or powered monitors, and that middle module is more like a mid woofer than a sub (there's a reason it goes on your desk). Keep in mind you'll be listening closer than most of those speakers were intended for tho, so you may very well find the bass to be sufficient if your favorite genres don't emphasize it a lot or you really can't play very loudly anyway.

Edit: A5 are decent for $250, not nearly as overpriced as the latest A5+ model which is now up to $400... But you can still do better for the money, whether it's with passives and an amp or even a different pair or brand of powered speakers than the A5, passives is generally a more flexible setup as far as upgrades and your budget is concerned tho.

 

[rosco]

I understand when people want to keep the price down and go with the cheap Lepai amp to get started.

What I'm wondering though, is there a reason besides space that so many people use an amp like Topping, etc instead of a solid receiver like this for $99.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTRC330/Onkyo-HT-RC330-5.1-CHANNEL-HOME-THEATER-RECEIVER/1.html

It just seems like a receiver gives you SO much more flexibility no matter what you might decide in the future.

As far as the room argument, I find my Denon also makes a nice monitor stand also. Yes I leave a lot of area open on top of it as well for ventilation.

 

[SithSolo1]

I understand when people want to keep the price down and go with the cheap Lepai amp to get started.

What I'm wondering though, is there a reason besides space that so many people use an amp like Topping, etc instead of a solid receiver like this for $99.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTRC330/Onkyo-HT-RC330-5.1-CHANNEL-HOME-THEATER-RECEIVER/1.html

It just seems like a receiver gives you SO much more flexibility no matter what you might decide in the future.

As far as the room argument, I find my Denon also makes a nice monitor stand also. Yes I leave a lot of area open on top of it as well for ventilation.

The biggest reason is the one you mentioned: size. You can fit 9 or more TP21s in the space of that one receiver. The TP21 also uses a substantially lower amount of power both off, idle, and under load.

As an aside, I believe the TP21 is a better built unit than the DTA-100a. Head-Fi did a tear down an the DTA-100a was a mess on the inside. Also users have reported sound level imbalance between the left and right channels on some units.

 

[Impulse]

That Onkyo receiver might be on par with some of the T-amps, at best, but I doubt it's substantially better... And Onkyo receivers have a reputation for running hot. Regardless, you're paying for a lot of other things besides amplification when you buy a receiver like that, you're paying for input switching which you may have no need for, all sorts of format decoding, the remote, the GUI, the auto calibration algorithm and routines, etc etc.

Yeah it's more versatile for sure, but a lot of people have absolutely zero need for any of the extra stuff so why get something larger and less efficient that isn't necessarily any better? Now if you wanted something better there's certainly discrete class A/B amps (stereo or otherwise) that would certainly be better than a sub-$100 T-amp. Audioengine, Emotiva, Topping, and others even make some relatively compact class A/B models.

Point is, more features doesn't make an AVR a better amp, just makes it an AVR and a lot of people will never use much of that at their desk so that's why they buy something else.

 

[SonDa5]

You could always buy an old used 2.1 setup and modify it to your liking. Some of the older 2.1 set ups can probably be found in garage sales or second hand stores or ebay for cheap.

My 2.1 set up is in the making and it consist of a modified Fostex PS-3.1 system that I have had for over 10 years. The speakers are damaged so I am upgrading speakers and tweaking power to drive them.

Replacement 3" speakers are Tang Band W3-881SJF. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-911

Replacement 5 1/4" sub will be Tang Band W5-1138SM. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-831

I am going to go line out from my PC optical Toslink connection to Topping D2 DAC and then out to Topping TP22 T-AMP to the 2.x3"speakers.

The Fostex Sub box will be fed from RCA out from the Topping D2 DAC as well. The sub woofer box has an itegrated old school T-amp that puts out a total of 25 watts@4 ohms that I am going to feed to the sub. Hoping that is a good enough amp and good power to push the sub, if not I'll probably add another dedicated T-amp for the sub or upgrade the amp ICs.

 

[fss69]

The biggest reason is the one you mentioned: size. You can fit 9 or more TP21s in the space of that one receiver. The TP21 also uses a substantially lower amount of power both off, idle, and under load.

As an aside, I believe the TP21 is a better built unit than the DTA-100a. Head-Fi did a tear down an the DTA-100a was a mess on the inside. Also users have reported sound level imbalance between the left and right channels on some units.

T-Amps will definitely sound better than most budget receivers. Most do lack in raw power though. So if you have some inefficient speakers, like Aperions as an example, you would need something else like the Dayton APA150.

And yes the DTA-100 poorly made. diyaudio did a tear down of the first version and it was pathetic. Sounds like not much changed with the "a" revision. If you need a well built T-Amp, Topping is definitely the way the go.

 

[counterpoint]

Speaker power handling (watts) is just a rating the manufacturer puts on a speaker to give a ball park figure of its limitation. It doesn't mean a 20 watt amp can't drive a 300 watt speaker. Also, a 300 watt amp will probably run a 150 watt speaker just fine as long as you don't push it too hard and for too long, like constant loud music. For HT you would be just fine. So don't worry about that spec so much. The sensitivity of a speaker will determine how hard it will be for an amp to drive the speaker.

If HDMI and decoders aren't your priority, older receivers (especially the heavier ones) on the used market are a great option to look into as they will have pretty good amplifier sections. The quality of the DAC is important too and sometimes the cheapo receivers will have poor DACs (if you're using a digital input, otherwise don't worry) so do your own research. As far as the build quality of the DTA-100a, I think I read somewhere that it was improved over the predecessor. I thought the L/R sound imbalance was limited to the predecessor as well, but I could be wrong. I don't think you should judge an amp based on how it "looks" on the inside, but rather how it sounds. All of this stuff is mass produced Chinese imports anyway. I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for so I'd rather pay for reasonably priced quality gear in the beginning so I don't have to constantly fret over upgrading or what I'm missing out on if I just spent little more money.

Harman Kardon AVR 7200 7.1 Channel 700 Watt Receiver - 66lbs

Just look at that thing. It might not have HDMI or the latest decoders but it weighs 66 freaking pounds; sixty-six. That's as much as my Emotiva UPA-7 (7-channel discrete amplifier). The thing is a freakin monster! Most receivers these days are barely breaking the 18-20lb barrier because they simply just don't make them like they used to. HK's top of the line receiver today weighs 27lbs, down 5lbs from last year's model. All of that weight came out of the amplifier section. My 2009 Pioneer Elite VSX-21TXH weighs 36lbs, and that was one of the best receivers for the price at the time, but their new receivers are getting comparatively lighter. In the analog world of audio amplification, lighter does not equal better. That's why I got myself a dedicated amplifier, so I don't have to worry about having enough power to drive my speakers. I'd take that old school receiver/amp any day of the week thank you over the crap that gets produced these days.

 

[peterf]

I really appreciate these informative replies.

I might be able to pick up a pair of Paradigm Atom V2s for 80 dollars. Is that a good deal?

Thanks!

 

[Impulse]

Yeah, good deal IMO, anything under $100 would be a solid deal for those depending on their condition.