13" Black Macbook vs. XPSM1210 vs. Vaio TX

S

sin01

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
335
As the title states, this is a battle between the apple 13" black macbook, the xps m1210, and vaio's tx series laptops. Lets hear some pros and cons for both sides. If you guys think you have a cheeper, better competition to pit against the juggernauts, let em have it! Lay be best electronic consumer product win!
 
I just picked up -

T7200
1Gb DDR2 Ram
120Gb HDD
8x DVD-RW (DL)
Windows XP MCE 2005
12.1" Widescreen
Integrated 1.3MP Webcam
SB Audigy
6 cell battery
Intel Pro A/B/G Wireless

$1178 shipped from Dell Outlet.
 
buy macbook if you want OSX and can live with integrated grpahics.
buy dell if you want windows and wanna casually game (discrete grphaics)
buy sony if you want overpriced sony sleekness. My 2 cents :D

Macbook and the m1210 are both great laptops.

I am personally thinking about getting the m1210 for grad school this spring.
 
Doward said:
I just picked up -

T7200
1Gb DDR2 Ram
120Gb HDD
8x DVD-RW (DL)
Windows XP MCE 2005
12.1" Widescreen
Integrated 1.3MP Webcam
SB Audigy
6 cell battery
Intel Pro A/B/G Wireless

$1178 shipped from Dell Outlet.
Click to expand...

monster deal!!!

congrats, i am jealous...
 
Things I like about my MacBook include it's superb build quality, the little things like slot-load DVD, Gigabit Ethernet, the magnetic power connector, the magnetic cover instead of a latch.

OS X has made me think twice about my upgraded desktop and made me seriously consider selling it to put towards a real Mac desktop.

OS X and it's infinite amount of keyboard shortcuts and workflow enhancements make it feel like it's a real workhorse on the go and I can't see anything with windows ever shaping up to the way OS X works. The extended wireless chipset range rears it's head whenever my friends with PC based notebooks can't cut it but I've got full coverage.

The way EFI works with the hardware to help the support services diagnose problems REALLY helps. I told the guy it wouldn't start up, he gave me a few options, one of which was hold the power button until I heard the boot chime twice and the power indicator blinked repeatedly, then jump to holding Apple + C + P + R. Yup, I performed CPR on my MacBook and it booted right back as if nothing ever happened. It worked like a dream. I don't know anything like that with a PC. If I held WinLogo + C + P + R on bootup it would let me think, give me a keyboard error because the BIOS wouldn't know what to do.

I don't dislike PC based notebooks, I just think that it's a great time to own a Mac and I can run Vista with Aero Glass enabled as well without a hickup.

I know I have a 'last-gen' MacBook, but the new ones are just that much better, they have a 802.11n wireless chipset (not yet enabled on the OS X side until their drivers are extremely reliable), a DVD-DL burner, a cooler, quicker, quieter Core 2 Duo (quieter because the fans act less), and larger HDD capacity.

I HIGHLY recommend putting in 1GB of ram; OS X manages memory just like Vista does, in that it's protected and very well managed instead of how XP does it which is almost sloppy and when high memory usage occurs, OS X and Vista fly by while XP bogs down.

I have 2GB of ram for the reason that I run Parallels to use XP/Vista on the side for my CompSci classes. BootCamp (rebooting into XP/Vista instead of just running it virtually) runs great and works just the same if not better than it does on a real PC notebook; it's actually easier to install than real PC windows because all the drivers come on one CD at one time and there is no updating for them required.

Not to mention with the new MacBook's and Leopard on the way, it's fully 64-bit compliant and everything will be even faster. Leopard will be on a single DVD for PPC/Intel/32-bit/64-bit and upon insertion it will know exactly what your system is and knows what it will install.

Keep in mind that OS X 10.4.8 (the current release of OS X 10.4 "Tiger") is just a port of a PPC based OS and that it wasn't necessarily made with Intel in mind, while Leopard is built from the ground up with Intel in it's design to it will be even faster. I would rather use my ported OS X 10.4 than XP/Vista on a regular day-to-day basis, that says something about the way Apple does things and the power and usability of OS X.

I love my MacBook and I'm sure you'd be very happy with one as well.

My previous notebook was an Alienware Area-51m which is a joke of a notebook compared to my MacBook because it's not portable at all, and I realized this time that the point of notebooks is that they're portable so I'm glad you're looking at the smaller sizes.

Oh right, the WXGA screen on my Mac feels like it has much more space than when I see the same screen res on XP/Vista simply because of the way Apple does it's UI, the way the Dock works and items are resized in this OS makes me even more excited for the resolution independence and full vector-based rendering of Leopard.

Cool stuff is happening with Apple and it's Mac computers. I think a MacBook is the way to go.

I would like to hear what the XPSM1210 and Vaio TX camp has to say though.

When purchasing a Mac, keep in mind that the Black and White MacBook's (the middle and top models) have the same specs beside the HDD. I went with Black knowing this because I like the color better and if I'm going to use something every day I better like the way it looks.
 
I've used an M1210, and I can definately say that it is an excellent notebook. The keyboard is actually decent, and it definately feels very solid. It has a discreet gfx card (depending on your configuration), making it the most powerful 12 inch notebook on the market (though I think Asus and Sony have 12 inchers with discreet gfx too, they are much more expensive than the Dell).

I currently have a rock solid 2 year old 700m which I absolutely love and the M1210 improves upon it in every way.

I've used Macbooks too, and they are also excellent! The biggest problem with the Macbook in my opinion (this is highly subjective), is that EVERYONE HAS ONE!!!! Now this might not matter to most people, but to me (and I'm sure a few others), it does. When I go to school, just about 8.5 outta 10 people have a Macbook, it really is the conformist, "everyman" notebook selection.

If you are a big spender.... the Macbook Pro is fucking beautiful. Best_Keyboard_Ever_Made, laptop or desktop, that thing is beautiful... and the fact that the Pro is marginally heavier than the regular Macbook is a huge plus.

In the end, If I had the money to buy a new notebook right now, it would be the M1210. Rock solid, and amazing performance... and with a little voltage tweaking, I was able to squeeze out a good 5 hours of uptime on one of them with wireless on and watching flash movies/xvid movies for most of the time. Thats pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

In the meantime... I still have my 700m until I graduate college.... If you need a supercheap, but slightly heavy notebook, try ebay one of these things... they are built like rocks!
 
What's it like using Windows without a second mouse button on a Macbook, though? For desktop use you can use your own mouse, but for lap use?

Also, how's the battery life on it? Can you use drive imaging programs (true image or an equivalent?)?

(I was going to ask about durability but I'm not sure how many people can honestly answer that question well... everything seems durable enough for everyday use until you've had a laptop screen crack for no apparent reason like I have, then you're scarred ****less that everything and everything is going to break.)
 
Skipper007 said:
What's it like using Windows without a second mouse button on a Macbook, though? For desktop use you can use your own mouse, but for lap use?

Also, how's the battery life on it? Can you use drive imaging programs (true image or an equivalent?)?

(I was going to ask about durability but I'm not sure how many people can honestly answer that question well... everything seems durable enough for everyday use until you've had a laptop screen crack for no apparent reason like I have, then you're scarred ****less that everything and everything is going to break.)
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Using windows on a MacBook isn't any different from using it on a real PC notebook except in order to right click you either use CTRL+Click or you put two fingers on the touchpad and then click.

Remember the touchpad on MacBook's is extremely well designed and is actually of size to be of use when compared to almost any other PC based notebook.

Above, the MBP keyboard was mentioned and while I agree it is a very very nice keyboard, I certainly don't dislike my MacBook keyboard, it feels the right size to me and I've had no issues finding them in the dark at all either.

Also above, yes many people have MacBook's, but there is a reason people have them too, it's because it is a great choice to make today. I have had to fix no issues on either of the 4 MacBook's on my floor but I've been in and out of every other room fixing laptops wireless connections and the like, it's just easier on a Mac, that's the way I've found it to be.

Oh yeah, and there are a lot less black MacBook's around than white ones, so if you go black, I've only seen 2 others in the wild, otherwise all I've seen is white ones.

Where the MacBook lacks is it's integrated graphics card, the Intel GMA950, which is in the MacBook's, set to 64MB shared. I do not notice the slowdown compared to PC notebooks with real graphics cards during general usage, the Nvidia solutions found in the XPSM1210 is also a shared memory type graphics card, but with a more sophisticated chip behind it so I don't doubt it being better in the grahpics department; that being if you use graphics applications on the go.

You asked about battery life as well, and I can safely say that I get 4 hours with wi-fi on for general use, start doing something like a movie and I get more like 3~3.5; but I also have ever run out of battery or have I gotten low enough where I've been worried.

Also I can't speak about drive imaging software such as True-Image but there is a great piece of software called CarbonCopyCloaner for OS X that is an equivalent utility, and OS X Leopard in the spring will have "Time Machine" which is a drive backup utility which requires a seperate partition to use it.

I also think OS X does the multiple desktop thing much better than windows, probably because of it's BSD/Unix subsystem. For this I reccomend VirtueDesktops, which is free, as is most of the software I use daily on OS X and it's GREAT, works very well and contains many nice animations for switching desktops, I prefer the 'cube' one personally, where all 4 of my desktops act as if they are on the side of a cube and I switch between them with a stroke of Option+Shift+Corresponding Arrow Key.

I recommend you head to the Apple Store and check them out a little more too, the people there know their stuff, it's easier to know it and help you with it when there's only so much of it out there, as opposed to PC's where hardware isn't static, which is where I think Apple gets it's ability to offer such great technologies.
 
I almost blew my drink through my nose when I read the "superior build quality of a macbook" thing, they have been plagued with problems since day 1 of release. My wife has one, and while they are nice for an OS X machine you cant really do any serious gaming on them. Also they get dirty and show your wrist marks easy requiring constant cleaning. For the money you can do better.
 
Talk about why it is the best computer you have ever owned. This thread isn't for declarations! It’s for feuds and discussions! Prove to me how good your computer really is.
 
Appleseed said:
I almost blew my drink through my nose when I read the "superior build quality of a macbook" thing, they have been plagued with problems since day 1 of release. My wife has one, and while they are nice for an OS X machine you cant really do any serious gaming on them. Also they get dirty and show your wrist marks easy requiring constant cleaning. For the money you can do better.
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I know the MacBook's have their issues, but the way the case is slim and the same size all around, the shape rather, makes it really easy to put in a backpack without getting caught on say, the slits beneath PC notebooks for venting or the risers they have for air.

I want to know what's so funny about what I said though, I think it's only funny because Mac products get more publicity for their faults where as PC notebooks are like "hey, deal with it."

I know my Alienware Area-51m overheated and shut down a lot and Alienware just told me to deal with it. Apple is fixing their problems and helping their customers in store and through AppleCare, I wouldn't get that kind of treatment from Dell unless I threw an absolute fit. I know because I had to have my sister's Inspiron laptop replaced because of a faulty motherboard and Dell was VERY not happy to fix it even under the warranty terms.

I brought my MacBook into the store when I had a mixed up shutdown issue after the new MacBook's were released and they replaced everything that was an issue on the spot. The new ones don't have the same issues and mine doesn't now either.

The CD/DVD burning issue no longer exists in my MacBook and I know they aren't in the new MacBook's.

I know my black MacBook has darker spots from where my hands rest but it doesn't look abnormal. The white MacBook's would get discolored originally from where you rested your hands because of an issue in the plastic mixture they used but they've fixed that. I also wouldn't call it constant cleaning, I know I purchased the Marware protection pack for mine so I have a palm rest which doesn't get the palm marks, and it came with a keyboard/screen cloth which helps a lot and I think was a pretty good deal for 20$.

I really really really like my MacBook and I would rather use it than my desktop as a main machine or at least I wish I had a Mac desktop and I could just use BootCamp to game if I really wanted to.

I work better and have more fun using my MacBook than I do on my desktop because of OS X and it just feels more sleek and cool.

I think the MacBook is a much better value than those 2200-3000 Vaio TX's...
 
I bought a Macbook a few days ago. Was going to either get a Thinkpad X60 (tiny thinkpad).. or this..
Decided on this because I wanted the option of OSX.. thought I have no idea how to use it.

I like it so far.

It definately needs at least 1g.. I've only got 512 in mine, and I can't say the speed is too impressive.. quite often chugs when opening things.

The onboard video was the main lame thing to me.

The wifi is killer, fast as hell and the range is great.

It seems like it dies MUCH faster in XP than OSX.. OSX the battery bar barely moved.. on XP as soon as I unplug it I watch it drop.
 
itsmikey said:
I bought a Macbook a few days ago. Was going to either get a Thinkpad X60 (tiny thinkpad).. or this..
Decided on this because I wanted the option of OSX.. thought I have no idea how to use it.

I like it so far.

It definately needs at least 1g.. I've only got 512 in mine, and I can't say the speed is too impressive.. quite often chugs when opening things.

The onboard video was the main lame thing to me.

The wifi is killer, fast as hell and the range is great.

It seems like it dies MUCH faster in XP than OSX.. OSX the battery bar barely moved.. on XP as soon as I unplug it I watch it drop.
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That's why I recommend using 1gb or more of memory. The onboard graphics fits the bill though for a true notebook, it isn't meant for gaming. I don't think gaming on the go is even worth it, and if you get a gaming notebook don't expect to actually take it anywhere because the battery will be really short and it's probably pretty big and heavy.

I really like my MacBook and it seems like you're just skimming the surface of using it and I can guarantee you'll like it better.

Here's some software I reccomend for ya, and most of this is free, I think maybe 2 or 3 of them cost a small sum of money, but are definitely worth it:

VirtueDesktops (http://www.virtuedesktops.info) - Use 0.53r220 (find this in the "AppCast" menu option) because it runs better than the newer r233 on Intel Macs. This piece of software is a great desktop manager and has lots of cool animations to switch between them. I have mine set to the cube animation and using a length of 0.15 seconds for the animation.

AdiumX (http://www.adiumx.com) - This is a great IM client for OS X that supports AIM/MSN/Yahoo/etc.. and is highly customizable.

CoreDuoTemp (http://macbricol.free.fr/coreduotemp/) - A good app that uses the SpeedIt framework and puts a temperature monitor in your top bar.

Disco (http://www.discoapp.com) - An upcoming (currently in beta) CD/DVD burning App that keeps a track of what CD's or DVD's you've burned like a database, it's pretty cool.

NightShift (http://web.mac.com/reinholdpenner/iWeb/Software/NightShift.html) - Is an Application that updates the framework of Safari by downloading the nightly builds of Apple's open source WebKit. It automatically mounts and installs what it downloads as well. Very useful App, also can go back to a previous version if there is an issue.

Snak (http://www.snak.com/) - A great IRC client for Mac which I use.

Transmission (http://transmission.m0k.org/) - A good light weight torrent client for OS X.

Xslimmer (http://www.xslimmer.com/) - is an app that is very useful for Intel based macs. It removes the framework for PPC from your UniversalBinary applications to save some space on your Mac.

Monolingual (http://monolingual.sourceforge.net/) - A great app that removes other language support from you applications in OS X. You can save upwards of 2 gigs of space by removing these language files which you'll probably never use.

Flip4Mac (http://www.flip4mac.com/) - use the WMV Components for Quicktime to be able to play WMV files in Safari and Quicktime.

Pacifist (found on versiontracker) - this app will help you install components from .pkg files and helps a lot if you mess up a file or two from your original os x install and need to grab them from the os x install dvd.

Perian (http://www.perian.org/) - This App allows you to play many types of video formats from within QuickTime and even FrontRow.

Uno (http://gui.interacto.net/) - An App that will unify OS X GUI to be either all the same style as iTunes 7 or to be all a lighter color. Makes it a lot easier to look at than having different themes/styles on Finder/Safari/iTunes all on the same desktop, kinda weird Apple can't just keep to one style... BTW the way iTunes 7 looks right now is how it will look in OS X Leopard (10.5).

Inquisitor (http://www.inquisitor.com/safari/) - An App that basically adds spotlight functionality to the search bar in Safari, very cool and useful, I love it, another good free app.

Also make sure to install OS X fresh from the get-go and try and slim it down by not selecting extra language packs in the install and not selecting applications you won't use and by not selecting all the printer drivers. I know I needed none of the included printer drivers which saved a lot of space with my install. I think my install was about 8~9gb in the end.

So that's all my advice, and I use all those apps on a regular basis, it's really nice.

I also have purchased QuickTime Pro, and I use Parallels on occasion to get my XP/Vista fix if I really need it (besides my desktop that is), and I have iWork '06 and Office for Mac 2004. If you don't want to put up with MSFT's Rosetta emulated version of office (which isn't slow at all actually with 1gb of ram or more), check out NeoOffice which is a well done port of OpenOffice in UniversalBinary form.

Also keep your eye on Maczot.com for great prices on useful Mac Shareware, and mydreamapp.com for an almost american idol style application creation process. The same guy who made those two sites also runs macheist.com which is a fun little game thing where you can earn shareware software for free by completing the heists. I have about 7 invites to this right now but if you head over to macheist.com/macworld you can register without needing an invite right now.

Edit: added some more apps.

Edit 2: added some more apps.
 
i have an m1210 and i love it. i can use it for grad school, and better yet when i have the time it can even handle bf2 :D i couldn't tell you anything about the other two lappys but i hear good things about the macbook.
 
can you back that up with comparative experience that you can share with the rest of us? or can you boast about its performance capability in comparison?
 
I have an m1210 as well and it will smoke a macbook for sure, especially considering the m1210 has a nice graphics card. It also feels better built to me, but I've only used a macbook in the Apple store once maybe.
 
Optional87 said:
I know my Alienware Area-51m overheated and shut down a lot and Alienware just told me to deal with it. Apple is fixing their problems and helping their customers in store and through AppleCare, I wouldn't get that kind of treatment from Dell unless I threw an absolute fit. I know because I had to have my sister's Inspiron laptop replaced because of a faulty motherboard and Dell was VERY not happy to fix it even under the warranty terms.
Click to expand...


I dont know what you are talking about, dell has very good support. I called them up about my laptop telling them my harddrive was making some clicking noises. They sent me a new HD no questions asked, even before mine crashed...which I bet it was planning to do soon. I had trouble charging my notebook, they sent me a new PSU no questions asked. That didn't fix it, so they overnighted a new motherboard to a local techie who replaced it for me. This is all 3 years into the warranty mind you.

Overall Dell has some of the best support in the business, barring the whole outsourcing thing, but most representatives are good...and you can always ask to be bumped up to level 2 tech support which is much more competent.


I have another suggestion about the laptops, instead of the TX which is more of an ultraportable, the SZ is a better choice. It has both discrete and integrated graphics and can switch between the two. Integrated for longer battery, discrete for better performance. The screen on the SZ can be insanely thin on some models. Although the SZ isn't cheap, just like every piece of Sony equipment.
 
Erasmus354 said:
I dont know what you are talking about, dell has very good support. I called them up about my laptop telling them my harddrive was making some clicking noises. They sent me a new HD no questions asked, even before mine crashed...which I bet it was planning to do soon. I had trouble charging my notebook, they sent me a new PSU no questions asked. That didn't fix it, so they overnighted a new motherboard to a local techie who replaced it for me. This is all 3 years into the warranty mind you.

Overall Dell has some of the best support in the business, barring the whole outsourcing thing, but most representatives are good...and you can always ask to be bumped up to level 2 tech support which is much more competent.


I have another suggestion about the laptops, instead of the TX which is more of an ultraportable, the SZ is a better choice. It has both discrete and integrated graphics and can switch between the two. Integrated for longer battery, discrete for better performance. The screen on the SZ can be insanely thin on some models. Although the SZ isn't cheap, just like every piece of Sony equipment.
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I'm talking about Dell Support from my experience with my dad's dell laptop and desktop and my sister's dell laptop. I haven't had good experiences with it myself, and that has been pretty recently. I have had no issues with Apple however.

I wouldn't dog on dells support if I had had a good experience with it but I didn't so I said I didn't think it was up to snuff and said my experience. I'm trying to tell him the OP all about my experiences with both companies and all kinds of laptops from either company which is what he's asking for.
 
Apple's quality issues don't get highlighted because people think that those problems come with the territory... they get highlighted because of people who talk like they are god's gift to computer users and absolutely perfect.

If so many people didn't act like apple's shit doesn't stink, non-apple users wouldn't revel quite as much in publicizing their issues. If you want to be honest with yourself, you'd realize that they aren't that much better than other notebooks. This is just like people pretending like apple computers never crash and never lock up, its just BS.

I'll give it to you that they are thin sleek and stylish, but pinnacles of quality they aren't. And every single notebook manufacturer includes more than 90 days warrantee with the cost of the notebook.
 
TMan1876 said:
Apple's quality issues don't get highlighted because people think that those problems come with the territory... they get highlighted because of people who talk like they are god's gift to computer users and absolutely perfect.

If so many people didn't act like apple's shit doesn't stink, non-apple users wouldn't revel quite as much in publicizing their issues. If you want to be honest with yourself, you'd realize that they aren't that much better than other notebooks. This is just like people pretending like apple computers never crash and never lock up, its just BS.

I'll give it to you that they are thin sleek and stylish, but pinnacles of quality they aren't. And every single notebook manufacturer includes more than 90 days warrantee with the cost of the notebook.
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It's 90 day phone tech support and 1 year at the store for any and everything.

The one time I called in to Apple support so far, they're technical knowledge and ability to diagnose the issue impressed me enough that I put the money down for the extra coverage from the 3 year AppleCare package.

My MacBook crashed twice in one day, other than that it hasn't locked up and hasn't crashed, and I'm not lying about it, I'm not pretending, I'm telling the truth. When it did crash was the time I called AppleCare and they fixed my issue with a few keyboard commands on startup and a power management reset. They also stayed on the line with me, instead of telling me what to do and then having me call them back if it didn't work out.

I told him straight up that if the problem couldn't be fixed on the phone that I was a student and couldn't live without my notebook for classes and he agreed and had a Genius Bar appointment ready for that day in case it didn't work out and put a note about me needing the notebook before sunday if a repair had to be done.

And yes while Apple's might still not be 100% perfect, they're a whole lot closer than any PC notebook is going to get anytime soon in my book.
 
what about the built in digital camera's. What are their quality, i know that i have personally used my friend m1210 on several occasions, in good light and bad, and i was NOT happy with the results... while on the other hand i have also used another friends macbook PRO camera ( safe as the macbooks???) on several occasions and i am EXTREMELY pleased with its quality. Did i get some bad luck shots on different occasions with the m1210... or is the macbook/macbook pro's camera just plain.... better *GASP*
 
sin01 said:
what about the built in digital camera's. What are their quality, i know that i have personally used my friend m1210 on several occasions, in good light and bad, and i was NOT happy with the results... while on the other hand i have also used another friends macbook PRO camera ( safe as the macbooks???) on several occasions and i am EXTREMELY pleased with its quality. Did i get some bad luck shots on different occasions with the m1210... or is the macbook/macbook pro's camera just plain.... better *GASP*
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The only other laptop built in camera I've used is on an ASUS laptop and those are pretty good, but since the MacBook's and MBP's are made by ASUS I can only imagine why.

I'm happy with my MacBook's digital camera for randomly using the Video iChat stuff but I haven't personally had a real use for it.

While using Video iChat on the MacBook's; if you invite more than one person to chat with you, the quality drops to accomodate for either bandwidth or video processing; but I haven't gotten the chance to try the camera out on the MacBookPro so it might be the same way and both my thoughts might be wrong... There's an MBP in my CompSci class, I'll try to use that for ya today to compare, that'll be around 1PM ish.
 
sin01 said:
bumper
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Right. I didn't get the chance to use that MBP, the guy wasn't in class, sorry. But if you have any other questions I'll be more than happy to answer them.

I really think if you don't game then the MacBook is the way to go, it's changed the way I use my computers and I enjoy using them now, and I'm a lot more productive because of it.
 
Can't go wrong with either the MacBook or M1210.

However for the price of a black MacBook I would rather get the M1210 with discrete graphics.

I own a MacBook ;)
 
ooooo, interesting =)

A: how did the macbook (macs in general?) change the way you use the computer, compared to before. How is it more productive?

I know someone said that the 13" (mac) is as large as the 14ish inch case, but im sure thats not true for the 12" (dell). so there is a size difference... but the weigh difference doesnt really exist if i recall their weights accurately ( the m1210 with the 9cell ). So the real advantage then lies in the either integrated graphics or i guess i should say lack there of in the m1210.

Also, you did touch on a good point there about the black macbook, well apple sorta in general. What you are getting for the m1210 is more worth the money ( minus OS).

However, if i use a mac for a while, maybe i will fall in love with it, as like everyone does, and then not be able to go back!!!
 
the M1210 comes with intergrated graphics standard (the 7300 is an option FYI)

Anyways, reiterating what i've said before, the M1210 just has a very (very) solid construction, and with proper voltage tweaking (using RMClock.. a wonderful program that I recommend to anyone using a Dothan/Turion/Yonah/Merom/etc).
 
sin01 said:
ooooo, interesting =)

A: how did the macbook (macs in general?) change the way you use the computer, compared to before. How is it more productive?

I know someone said that the 13" (mac) is as large as the 14ish inch case, but im sure thats not true for the 12" (dell). so there is a size difference... but the weigh difference doesnt really exist if i recall their weights accurately ( the m1210 with the 9cell ). So the real advantage then lies in the either integrated graphics or i guess i should say lack there of in the m1210.

Also, you did touch on a good point there about the black macbook, well apple sorta in general. What you are getting for the m1210 is more worth the money ( minus OS).

However, if i use a mac for a while, maybe i will fall in love with it, as like everyone does, and then not be able to go back!!!
Click to expand...

Alright here we go haha.

There are things in OS X and many programs that allow me to manage multiple programs effectively and easily, Expose is apple's built in window management, and paired with multiple desktops using VirtueDesktops, I can do more at a time, or at least it feels that way.

The look of OS X doesn't bore me like XP does, no matter how much I change my theme in XP, I still just don't like it for some reason, it's not functional enough for me.

OS X's large icons and such paired with the MacBook's glossy screen make it out to be a very pretty sight. And when I'm using VirtueDesktops to swap desktops it just feels a lot more fun to me than XP does. I enjoy using my computer more, it makes me want to learn more about the Unix/BSD end of things and work more inside the OS.

The built in utilities that come with OS X, ones that allow for image mounting, and image burning out of the box save a couple of bucks here and there for the same functionality on a PC which helps (to me) justify the cost a little better.

It might seem like little things but I just enjoy using my computer for what it is a lot more. It's also drawn me to use my consoles more for gaming and forgetting about PC gaming altogether. I get more use out of the things I owned before I had my Mac and I feel that I'm getting more value out of the things I do that way.

I don't play games on my computers anymore, I canceled my Final Fantasy XI accounts and have turned my PC into a video/storage box. I still have steam installed for the LAN parties we have when I'm home, but my PC is at college right now and I'm at home but I don't care. I brought my consoles home with me and my MacBook helps with the other things.

I umm, like that my MacBook and my seem edited RAZR V3m get along well with BlueTooth, and I like that I have available applications like iCal and such to manage my days without spending like 15$ on some half assed PC shareware. I manage my time more efficiently and I work harder on things that need to be worked on like homework and stuff because I know I have time to check all my e-mail all at once just by pressing F12 and opening up my Dock for my Hotmail Gmail and .Mac Mail accounts.

I like how OS X's upper bar works compared to the XP taskbar which always seemed like a mess to me. OS X doesn't depend on pressing on the upper bar to change applications, it's based on Expose and Alt+Tab; and with VirtueDesktops, I can Option+Tab to check what's on my other 3 desktops and just click on the desktop I want to go to.

It's a lot of little things but to me it's a big change. I'm normally very poorly organized and I rarely do my homework, but I guess it's the ease of use of OS X that makes me more relaxed about things in general, don't know why, can't explain it, it's just a lot nicer to me.

Yeah umm, I have this crazy idea that because of Apple's strict control on compatible hardware, that the hardware that does work is highly optimized for within the OS itself instead of 3rd party manufacturer's drivers. Apple writes all the drivers for OS X and they update automatically and they're much more secure than what can be offered on the PC side of things in my mind.

There are a few cases of Apple's drivers being comprimised, but these are lab cases, and not proven to work very well if at all in the wild.

Keep in mind that OS X 10.4 is only a port of a PPC based OS and that I still would rather use it on it's non-native hardware than WinXP or Vista on it's respective hardware.

And my desktop isn't shabby either, that's for sure; but I'd rather use my MacBook than my desktop. Call me crazy, but it's not always about the hardware. The software here has made all the difference for me, and it's easily covered it's cost in random extra's I didn't even know OS X had.

I've also found that the Apple community is very intelligent and much more creative than the PC community; that is not to say that PC enthusiasts are stupid or lack in creativity, it's just that Mac users bring it where it counts, and they're not afraid to add little frilly things because when adding those things in OS X, there isn't any kind of performance loss because while OS X performs extremely well, it's not all about the power or the speed, it's about the experience of performing the tasks.

Maybe to some people work is work and play is play, but it never hurts to mix it up a little bit. I like the animations and how in OS X leopard Core-Animation will be a component of the OS from the get-go and that it's all planned from the ground up to work on Intel processors instead of being a port, which means that performance will increase as well.

I've also not had to fix other people's MacBooks on my floor of my dorm at college, but I've been in and out fixing PC's often. I teach the Mac users new things that help them appreciate and enjoy their notebooks more, while I'm always trying to remove some virus or some spyware from the PC's. It just feels to me that for what I use it for, if I don't have to deal with those things (at least not primarily), I have more fun.

I started using iWeb to start a blog, I play with pictures in iPhoto, I have and will continue to purchase my music through iTunes. I don't have to possibly re-install my entire OS on one tuesday of every month simply because of a critical patch that messes something up that is more trouble to fix than it's worth.

I enjoy my computer so much and I'm so happy with my purchase that I do everything I can to reccomend Mac's to as many people as I can. I have many people saving up for a Mac as their next computer. My Dad now wants a Mac. I wish I had a Mac Desktop. It's just a nice new experience that's made a world of difference with just little things here and there that make it more fun for me to use my computer while still doing the same and more work than before.

OS X has had a lot of the functionality that windows just got in Vista since before XP was even released. It's way ahead of the game in my mind, and it shows. Simple things like EFI and a huge amount of keyboard controls and a well developed trackpad driver and size/placement make it easier to use.

And I REALLY like the trackpad by the way. I didn't know how useful it was when I bought the MacBook so I purchased a BlueTooth Mighty Mouse to go with my Mac; I've since returned the mouse because I rather use the trackpad. It certainly lowers the bulk of items carried. MacBook + charger is all I need when traveling with my notebook.

I do think the MacBook has a little larger profile than other 13.3" notebooks, but that gives it more of a presense and makes it feel more like a serious machine than a toy. If something is small it feels easy to break etc, but I think the MacBook is a great comprimise in size/weight/portability/power when compared to other notebooks in it's range.

The keyboard doesn't feel crowded, the trackpad is large, the ports are all found on one side of the notebook and not in every nook and cranny like PC notebooks, and while Apple could have included more ports, I have yet to find myself actually needing more ports.

The form factor of the MacBook is a huge plus to me, it's a little bigger than others but smaller than most, but still packs and punch and is usually thinner to boot, plus it doesn't have different height risers which sometimes make packing difficult, I know it did on my '03 model Area-51m and my sister's Dell.

I've probably said the same thing a few times, but if I did, it just means I really liked that feature I guess or that it's 1:36 AM and I need sleep. Anything else you would like to know?

Oh yeah, the Black MacBook comes at a premium because of it's color, but it's simple supply and demand, I didn't mind spending the extra money because I knew I liked the black one better and that if I was going to be using it a lot, I had better get the one I really wanted. I see white MacBook's all day long, but I've only seen 1 other Black one on campus and I only know one other person that owns a black one other than that guy on campus. I know of about 10-15 people off hand that have white macbooks in my vicinity at college, and i'm the only black one nearby, it helps cut down on confusion in study sessions when people are passing around laptops to have papers corrected, mine is the black one duh.
 
it all comes down to user error.

dont blame the company blame yourself. my dells have been rock solid, there have been issues but more mine then dells.
 
Its not about whats better, they're all great machines, its about what YOU like.

After using my MBP i wouldn't buy another laptop. Then again, thats just my personal preference.
 
who am I - I ask said:
it all comes down to user error.

dont blame the company blame yourself. my dells have been rock solid, there have been issues but more mine then dells.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you were responding to me or not, but I don't think it was my sister who caused her dell motherboard to ship to us as faulty. Either way it was difficult for me to get them to accept it in for repair.

My dad's notebook hasn't had any issues, and yes he's not the smartest computer user, but I know he would rather just surf the internet and check e-mail than call me up while i'm at college asking why he gets so many pop-ups.

I don't blame dell for that, that's not my dad's fault either though, it's the way the internet works and even the google toolbar misses popups every now and then, and spyware and viruses and popups and the like are much more common on PC's. These aren't pop ups that normally come from the websites either, but the minute he turns on his notebook he'd get some weird advertisement popups. I had him run spybot and adaware and his antivirus from safemode and it took care of it, but my dad doesn't want to have to deal with that and he knows I don't have to do that on my Mac so now he wants a Mac.

I know I don't have the issues my dad does with his notebook on my desktop, I know it's probably something he clicked, but had he clicked it on a mac, nothing would have happened to make those pop-ups continue to show themselves even on bootup, people write their software for PC's for the most part; at least the malicious advertisement stuff is. Mac didn't make it that way, MSFT didn't make it that, Dell didn't make it that way, etc.. it's only because of windows large consumer adoption that makes it a much better target for things like that and people like my dad who aren't all that great at keeping things tied down and cleaned up.

[Quote="WesM63"
Its not about whats better, they're all great machines, its about what YOU like.

After using my MBP i wouldn't buy another laptop. Then again, thats just my personal preference.
[/Quote]

Yup, that's right, he hasn't experienced a Mac first hand though so he wants to hear from switchers like us about what it's like on this side. So I'm telling him about my positives and negatives from both sides.

I'd like to hear the OP head to an Apple Store and try out a MB/MBP on his own and see what he thinks about them just quickly, but remember, when you own one it's a lot more customizable than the stores of course, and I personally have found out a lot more about my Mac since my impressions from friends and in the stores.

When I was trying to pick the right notebook for school, I needed one that I knew could get the job done, and while I've been a PC guy my whole life (minus using Mac's in elementary school and some middle school), I've recently been very intrigued with how Apple has done things and I wanted to get away from things that took away from my time to actually use my computer so much that I went Mac instead.

Searching for drivers and solving little issues with games and the like and/or scanning for spyware/adware and viruses, even if not that often, did irk me to try something else. It might have been that I was doing something wrong, but now I don't have to worry about it and that leaves me more time to do other things. I used to be tied to the progress bar to get things done and I used to be the guy that formatted XP pretty often when things got bogged down and got all the new versions of software all the time.

So those are my thoughts about that, either way it's my experiences i'm sharing with the OP as he's asked.
 
Questions for the MacBook afficiando:

1. You mentioned you are a CS major. What university? I'm looking for a new laptop at the moment and I'm a bit hesitant to switch development platforms the middle of my third year in college. What IDEs do you use for C/C++ ? What if you wanted to develop .NET ? Java? Is the Mac version of eclipse any good? Same? Also, I'm guessing that there are all types of builds for perl/ruby/etc...?

2. What is the differencece between developing on a Mac compared to PC/Linux?

3. What's the apple equivalent of shell scripting? Is it easy to use/powerful? Does the terminal have all of the UNIX tools? grep/cat/vim/ etc... Or do I have to dl them seperately.
 
has anyone actually looked at what the sony has to offer ?

one of the things that sony has that i dont think anyone else offeres on more than 1 or 2 laptops is the "Integrated Wireless Wide Area Network accessing Sprint(or cingular) Mobile Broadband service"


i for one had a sony ultra portable (srx-87 p3m ulv 850) in the past, and it was a really damn good laptop! less than 3lb's 3-4hr battery life stock, upto 10 with one of the upgraded batteries with tons of features still.. the integrated wireless was on par for the time. i wish i still had it, i would probably use it more than the other more powerful p4 laptop i have

sony does have allot to offer
 
mcplaayer said:
Questions for the MacBook afficiando:

1. You mentioned you are a CS major. What university? I'm looking for a new laptop at the moment and I'm a bit hesitant to switch development platforms the middle of my third year in college. What IDEs do you use for C/C++ ? What if you wanted to develop .NET ? Java? Is the Mac version of eclipse any good? Same? Also, I'm guessing that there are all types of builds for perl/ruby/etc...?

2. What is the differencece between developing on a Mac compared to PC/Linux?

3. What's the apple equivalent of shell scripting? Is it easy to use/powerful? Does the terminal have all of the UNIX tools? grep/cat/vim/ etc... Or do I have to dl them seperately.
Click to expand...

Right now I have winxp in bootcamp if i choose to program on my macbook, but I use my PC which runs Fedora Core 6 as a dual-boot and we use both of those commonly for our development.

I'm at Western Washington University right now.

I've been so busy with classes I haven't had a chance to delve into the Mac versions of the programs or play much with Apple's XCode. But that is on my list of things to do while I'm on the plane ride to and from Spain this winter hah.

And yes, Terminal does have those UNIX tools, it's fully featured from my smaller tests.
 
omegatotal said:
has anyone actually looked at what the sony has to offer ?

one of the things that sony has that i dont think anyone else offeres on more than 1 or 2 laptops is the "Integrated Wireless Wide Area Network accessing Sprint(or cingular) Mobile Broadband service"


i for one had a sony ultra portable (srx-87 p3m ulv 850) in the past, and it was a really damn good laptop! less than 3lb's 3-4hr battery life stock, upto 10 with one of the upgraded batteries with tons of features still.. the integrated wireless was on par for the time. i wish i still had it, i would probably use it more than the other more powerful p4 laptop i have

sony does have allot to offer
Click to expand...
Agreed. I bought one of the original 505R Pro Series laptops several years ago. 1 replacement hard drive and battery later it's still running great and looks contemporary (1" thick magnesium case). I recently purchased an HP 6000T that I have decided to send back due to its poor battery life and mixed opinions on what the cause is (1% a minute while browsing the web on wifi with brightness all the way down). I have been looking at the 13.3" Sonys, the Mac, and the Lenovo (IBM? -I guess I missed a couple chapters here) Thinkpad.

I think I am going to get the Sony. It does not come at much of a premium, I can custom spec it through Sony Style, it looks and feels better than the Mac, and has a 2 button mouse:).

Regarding the OS I have two thoughts:
(1) The Mac hardware can run XP, BUT you have to buy it separately!
(2) I wouldn't be surprised if Apple starts selling its OS to the PC market within the next year or two -It is a huge market for them and the opportunity cost can't be too high given the similarity between PC and Mac hardware now. If I'm right then I'll have the best of both worlds.
 
Ahhh, im just not so sure of that because then people would be less inclined to purchase their computers... or is that just me?
 
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