12nm AMD Polaris Up and Coming Alright - Pretty Soon Already

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Pieter3dnow, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/12nm-amd-polaris-up-and-coming-pretty-soon-already.html

    So it is a little bump in speed and let us hope it is more power efficient as well.
     
    {NG}Fidel, Ocellaris and Maddness like this.
  2. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,634
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    I was hoping for it to be closer to the Vega 56 (not super close) to fill in the massive gap in GPU power there...
     
    Maddness likes this.
  3. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Yeah Vega 56 performance for $200-$250
    Not likely is it ;) .
     
  4. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    It seems that there is a refresh coming between October 12 and 15 but that only covers RX570 refresh. The RX580 is a bit later in November.
     
  5. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,302
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    which its still weird, the RX 570 it is already too close to the RX 580 performance, then a refresh of RX 570 will cannibalize actual RX 580 sales, I also dont think they will ever offer vega56 performance at 200$ - 250$ however i really think they need to close the gap between rx 580 and vega56.. which it is what the refresh of rx 580 may achieve if they focus to keep same power levels as current rx 580 and focus the die shrink in getting much higher clocks, if for any reason they decide to go with a 384 bit bus it could really be an amazing GPU but thats just a dreaming thing for me right now.
     
  6. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    The problem lies in where most of us "know" that this might be a release for the sake of needing a refresh, expectation low = no disappointment, expectation high = bound to be a disappointment.

    Good price performance ratio = everybody happy ;)
     
  7. KazeoHin

    KazeoHin [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,634
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Like I said, fill in the gap between the 1060 and 1070 / between 580 and v56. Not replacing the higher end cards.
     
  8. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,829
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    These wishes haven’t been granted the last 2-3 releases.... I wouldn’t hold my breath.
     
  9. legcramp

    legcramp [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,702
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2004
    Can't we get a 9700 Pro type release in 2018? lol
     
    sabrewolf732 and Flogger23m like this.
  10. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,800
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    When your buying a 1,300 dollar graphic card, you kinda have different expectations then a guy buying a 250 dollar card. With the right tweaks they can likely get it close to Vega 56, really depends on how much work they vested into the update.
     
  11. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,829
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    I was talking more about AMD’s value. Everyone hopes they will price is half as much as nVidia for the same peformance for some reason.

    Well, with the cluster that RTX is it might happen! nVidia locked themselves into a pretty high BOM 2070 and up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  12. Araxie

    Araxie [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,302
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Nvidia may know AMD have nothing soon to be released in the market and by the time that day come they will have a new gen and a wave of cheaper and more powerful RTX Gpus.
     
    heatlesssun likes this.
  13. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Yeah I doubt you believe this yourself :).
     
    {NG}Fidel and Vercinaigh like this.
  14. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,631
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007
    It would take an entire redesign of the chip (at this point making it no longer "Polaris" as we know it) to even begin to get near 56 performance, especially custom cool cards that can breathe and let VEGA stretch it's legs...The RX580 has half the ROPS, ~1/3 less shaders, and much lower memory bandwidth...

    What AMD could DO (if the old rumors are true of Polaris having a GDDR5x compatible memory controller) is replace the ram with some 10~12Gbps DDR5X, which would open up the memory bandwidth, which many complain is a significant bottleneck with Polaris..Even if it cannot use '5x for cost or the lack of IMC support) they could at least go with 9Gbps GDDR5 which would help a bit.

    The 50% reduction is ROPs is a big deal as well..Again, AMD would have to design an entirely new chip with "Polaris" cores to fix this issue...There is a reason that AMD/MS only had 32 ROPs in the XB1X. I think with faster ram, and a 15% core bump, you will see it slot in where a 1060ti would be (if it existed).
     
    {NG}Fidel and N4CR like this.
  15. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    I don't see the issues with RX 570 or 580 at the current prices as they run great and the bitching about power savings as I don't get it , I can now game with a 65watt 6/12T Ryzen 5 and run a RX 570 and still be below just what my 290x needs to live and have same performance , so how is that bad if the fresh tech and power savings was the benefits as it was worth it to wait till drivers and prices was at there best .

    I think just like Ryzen 3 and 5 the RX 4XX-5XX offer the AMD core value and well balanced pricing with long life spans ,
     
  16. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/47374-amd-12nm-polaris-coming-in-november

    The last line is funny because this is what they started with:
    So their sources do not know what the speed increase is, Otherwise that line would have looked very different.

    Wait now this:
    Odd
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    Krenum and Maddness like this.
  17. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009


    It seems there is something going on not to sure what to think of this:
    HKMynyb.jpg

    Only a code name on a piece of paper and it says RX-590.
    Original post from: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/5910241075

    Let us hope no one was in a trolling mood ;)
     
    Vercinaigh and Maddness like this.
  18. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,829
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    I hope to god they didn’t waste money crossfiring low end GPUs on a single PCB.
     
    Araxie likes this.
  19. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    That makes no sense whatsoever.
     
    {NG}Fidel likes this.
  20. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,829
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    I know it would make no sense. Crossfire is terrible. Unless they are making it appear as one GPU but I highly doubt that.

    Only a fool would crossfire low end GPUs over a single higher end GPU.
     
  21. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    20,826
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    hard to say, could just be an internal code name for it, but could also be that they don't want to waste the RX 600 series brand for a single gpu refresh.
     
  22. 480 <= 1060 < 580 < 1070 <= Vega56 < 1070ti < Vega 64 <= 1080

    There's such a narrow gap now. If a 580 can be clocked higher than it will cannibalize the Vega56 sales. And as the 56 is cost limited due to memory cost, I see 56 being phased out.
     
  23. Maybe a RX585? Wouldn't be the first time. RX280->RX285.
     
  24. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Actually that would work out nicely for AMD ;) If they can cut out a money losing prospect as Vega 56 or Vega 64 for that matter and replace it with something cheaper to produce 2 birds 1 stone ....
     
    Vercinaigh and Maddness like this.
  25. Ehren8879

    Ehren8879 Little Bitch 3

    Messages:
    4,307
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Silicon's a tough business to be in nowadays.
     
    Maddness likes this.
  26. Maddness

    Maddness Gawd

    Messages:
    908
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    If they can give me Vega performance for the next Polaris and it's a sing GPU card, then I would happily upgrade my RX 480. I've noticed it is starting to struggle a bit in some of the latest games.
     
  27. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,018
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    LoL to all the people that expected 50% performance improvemente because of the die shrink. There were several youtubers claiming it would beat a 1070Ti/1080.
     
  28. dexvx

    dexvx Gawd

    Messages:
    937
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Looking at the XBox One X, the Polaris with more CU's is equivalent to a GTX 1070, IMO.
     
  29. Maddness

    Maddness Gawd

    Messages:
    908
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    I'm hoping it's more than just a die shrink. Afterall going from 14nm to 12nm it not that much of a big deal.
     
  30. crazycrave

    crazycrave Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    My first ATi was a 9700pro and back to Nvidia until the refresh of HD4870 was the 4890 rewired .
     
    Maddness likes this.
  31. Maddness

    Maddness Gawd

    Messages:
    908
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2014
    My first ATI card was also the 9700 pro. Out was an absolute beast back in the day. I remember being at a lan and everyone was gathered around my PC watching how well Farcry ran. Really loved that card.
     
    Pieter3dnow likes this.
  32. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,994
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2009
    Well there is little of an argument to have 2 gpu on 1 card because that would defeat the purpose it being cheap and serving a purpose on a budget there should be easier ways to make money for AMD rather then performance driven but if Polaris can come close (lets say through overclocking not by default) then it has a nice side effect.

    But I'm not thinking that Polaris 30 will break any records.
     
    Maddness likes this.
  33. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,018
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    The 580 already beats the 1060 for the most part (win some, loose some but mostly wins) so its not too far fetched that it can come close to a GTX1070. But the 1070Ti/1080 are in another leage.
     
    Sulphademus likes this.
  34. Sodapopjones

    Sodapopjones [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,778
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    When anyone has a stellar product they yell from the rooftops, and considering several AIBs are supposedly not even picking up the new 12nm chip, I highly doubt its getting anywhere near a 1070.

     
    Krenum likes this.
  35. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,419
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    If AMD released it at $179-$199, I'd buy it, currently a RX 580 owner. I couldn't seem them putting it out for anything over $299. the performance might possibly be within 10% performance of a stock 1070.....maybe. We'll see.
     
  36. SickBeast

    SickBeast Gawd

    Messages:
    518
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    I wouldn't count these cards out just yet. The ~5000 score in Time Spy is impressive if it's legit. I personally hope AMD is able to sell a boatload of these cards. We need AMD to be successful. We are already seeing nVidia start to abuse their monopoly on high end GPUs.
     
    Sulphademus and Maddness like this.
  37. funkydmunky

    funkydmunky 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,052
    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    I would like to see a price drop on the 570/80 and have the 590 slot in where a 580 is today. Then go as aggressive on the V56/64 as is possible. AMD really needs to be ultra competitive on the low/med gaming segment.
     
  38. ccityinstaller

    ccityinstaller 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,631
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2007

    I would love to see the 570/580 drop to $150/199ish and then have the 590 come in at $220~240 (Offical MSRP prices, not "sale prices")...We need AMD to continue to make at least a semi decent margin on these so that money can keep flooding into the R&D coffers so that we are not here again 3 years from now...This would be GREAT, as it would allow budget builds (~$700 with a 2200g/Ryzen 3 or Ryzen 3 refresh+B350/450+2x4GB DDR2800+ and $100 Case/PSU combo) to have a WONDERFUL 1080P Very high/ultra (depending on game) experience, and allow game devs to start targeting a higher performance/visuals target...

    Pair the build above with a $100~200 FS enabled LCD, and you are in PCMR gaming Heaven and all the twitch kiddies will be buying up AMD so they can play the games their favorite streamer does but with a rig that costs 1~4X less (since the streamers always have 10+ core/dual 1080/2080TI "donated" setups)..

    As for V56/64, they are being sold at their lowest point...You can get a V56 for $350~400 depending on the same and V64 for under $500 along with the 3 free games, of which Strange Brigade is a great (and runs even better!!!!)..VEGA is an expensive SKU thanks to that Large Die, tons of L2 cache (that is needed to keep that HBM2 fed), and HBM2..

    I wish AMD had released a reference VEGA design with an AIO cooler while keeping the price on the cooler with ZERO markup ie selling the cooling solution at cost. I get that they would have taken flak for Fury-X V2 with "It's soo hot blah blah" because the irony is VEGA is an OVERCLOCKER's DREAM with Full water. I can maintain a locked 1700~1750Mhz on my cards in X-fire (game dependent), and 1750Mhz on my worst card with 1800Mhz on my best card paired with 1100Mhz HBM all day everyday..

    These cards fly at these clocks, and it really makes them look so much better. The 1070 is left a good ways back, and the 1070TI is left behind again (gains depend on the game as some clearly favor Pascal even while some love AMD) which makes the 56 look even better and the 64 would have had a more definite lead over the reference 1080 with leads/ties with custom highly clocked SKUs..

    They should have had a reference blower design, but said "Hey Everyone, we have something special for those of you that demand maximum performance!" They knew they could not beat the 1080TI, but the V64/1080 battle was so close that the new V64 AIO would have made that even better. Great performance but cool and silent performance. There was even a decent amount of headroom for OC'ing which was a nice bonus compared to Fury. The V64 LC "limited edition" was too expensive. I understand why they did not, as VEGA, especially the early runs, was very expensive to produce due to first run yields and the interposer packaging with that expensive HBM.


    I would love to see AMD start a #VulkanFirst campaign....I mean actively support smaller/medium devs (that would otherwise be using the cheapest DX11 engine they can) with engineering/financial/marketing support..I mean Vulkan is the best possible outcome for all of us, even Team Green (especially with 2XXX series cards)...You want 1080/1440p ULTRA with nice Frame Rates? Check. You prefer 1080/1440P 120hz+ with Good/Great (depending on game design) performance for your twitch style of gaming? Check.

    AMD gets mindshare, marketshare, and still bringing in money for R&D? Check. Check. Check.
     
    N4CR and Maddness like this.
  39. os2wiz

    os2wiz Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    493
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    If Amd bothered to use GDDR5X memory they could squeeze out another 5% gain in performance above the 10% they will get with the node shrink. It is too bad they don't want to do this it is quite doable.
     
    Maddness likes this.
  40. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,152
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Isn't there a top bin GDDR5 that's nearly as fast? Who says they wont use top binned stuff or enable 5X for a mid-refresh in early jan-march to clear last chips before Navi?
    These are from budget to what was old midrange pricing cards.