12900k upgrade, some questions

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StoleMyOwnCar

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I'm a bit out of the loop. I see the 12900k at Microcenter for $500, so I'm thinking of upgrading from my 8700k, which is nearing 4.5 years old. I have a 2080 RTX and while I don't think it's necessarily bottlenecking my card, I've been noticing some decreased performance in a few games that I can't really attribute to much else...?

I have also been considering hosting some game servers for my friends on the side so I figure this would be a pretty futureproof upgrade for a while. I was initially going to do this with the 5950X, but it looks older and overall slower, and also more expensive for the same amount of cores.

My only concern is I have a Microatx build inside of a Corsair Air 240:

https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-CARBIDE-Micro-ATX-Mini-ITX-High-Airflow/dp/B00LA6WXEO

And this is the CPU cooler (it's the front outtake, and I have the lid off of the build so GPU heat doesn't really make it to the CPU cooler much):

https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Liquid-Cooler-Cooling-400-HY-CL24-V1/dp/B074WH52BW

I have read that it runs quite hot. At stock, is this thing going to be okay in there? Bit worried. At this point, I do have a build that is portable, so I could also just turn it into a full ATX spec, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
 
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jfreund said:
IMO, the 12900K isn't worth the increased power/heat/$$$ compared to the 12700K.

Make sure you have the hardware to mount the cooler on LGA1700.
Click to expand...


I have seen other people say that, and have considered it, but since the 12900k is $500 at Microcenter, while the 12700k is $349. (16/12)*349 is $465... so it's only about $30 off the expected price range given the higher core count. Considering that I'm going to be streaming games off of it and hosting game servers, I figured it might be good to just not bother skimping out on it at this point. Hopefully it'll last longer.

You are right, though, I might need another CPU cooler just because of mounting... and at that point yeah I might as well get another case, too.... lol...

https://www.microcenter.com/product...x-mid-tower-computer-case-black#tab-clearance

I see an open box of this one for $72. I've heard Lian Li is good, and that's fairly inexpensive, so I might go for it. No point in a MicroATX build when I have a portable Mini ITX that I built for mobility.

Christ these motherboards are expensive, though. Is there a great budget option, considering I don't plan on overclocking?
 
Another vote for the 12700K here. You'll happy with how much cooler it runs compared to the 12900K, while not missing out on much performance.
 
I see a lot of votes for the 12700k. The thing is, I'm going to have to probably replace the cooler either way, along with everything else, whether I'm getting the 12700k or the 12900k. I want something to last around 5+ years.

My use cases:
- Hosting servers
- Streaming games
- Running multiple Bluestacks VMs while gaming
- Gaming

Since the 12900k is roughly price-per-core performant (350$ for 12 cores vs 500$ for 16), is the 12700k going to perform sufficiently to be as futureproof of an investment? Since I'm not overclocking, is heat going to be a concern with a decent AIO? If so, then I might acquiesce. I don't know how hard it is to cool. Thanks for the responses.
 
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... Considering it's in the thread title, yes, that's kind of to be assumed. The main reason I made this thread was mainly because I was wondering if I could cool it sufficiently (ie if it took some kind of semi-exotic cooling solution like a full water loop to even run it at stock), and/or if there was anything else I was missing. I gave out my reasons for why I wanted the i9 when everyone started suggesting the i7, so it's understood that you kind of have to refute them and/or give me some other dire/extenuating circumstances in order for me to start considering the i7 instead.
 
ZodaEX said:
It sounds like your mind was already made up to get the i9 before you even created the thread. Just buy what you're going to buy anyway.
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Being that the thread title is "12900k upgrade, some questions". It looks like he made his intent clear from the start. His question centered around cooling, not if the i9 or i7 was the more economical buy. Getting bent out of shape because you ignore his initial question and he sticks with his original choice is funny.

I would definitely go with the lancool and a 280 or 360 aio/clc.
 
Just run that 12900K stock and set a reasonable power limit and it will be just fine for your uses. HSF wise I'd go 280 or 360 AIO, if possible, in the case you are looking at.

Your cheaper board options are going to be DDR4 boards. Something like this might scratch your itch: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162044
 
jfreund said:
IMO, the 12900K isn't worth the increased power/heat/$$$ compared to the 12700K.

Make sure you have the hardware to mount the cooler on LGA1700.
Click to expand...
This.

And the 5950x does not really have the same of cores. It really has more usable cores.

OP- you need to read up on the P and E cores and differences. The AMD chip has essentially all classic cores (P cores). More raw power with cores. The Intel has the P and E cores. Not the same. Compare P core count to get an idea.

This is coming from a 12700k owner. I also don’t think the 12900k is worth the price increase. It’s also much hotter running than the 12700k. Those are all things to consider.
 
hititnquitit said:
Being that the thread title is "12900k upgrade, some questions". It looks like he made his intent clear from the start. His question centered around cooling, not if the i9 or i7 was the more economical buy. Getting bent out of shape because you ignore his initial question and he sticks with his original choice is funny.

I would definitely go with the lancool and a 280 or 360 aio/clc.
Click to expand...

Bent out of shape how? This guy obviously already has his mind made up. Read the thread for yourself.
 
ZodaEX said:
Bent out of shape how? This guy obviously already has his mind made up. Read the thread for yourself.
Click to expand...
Its as if you think he's insulting you by not taking your advice?
Exactly. Read the title man! 😜 he had his mind made up from the git go.
It's not my personal choice for what his plans are but it's obvious he knows where he wants to go with his rig. Sometimes shoving our opinion down a guys throat isn't the solution. Sometimes, answering a question is all a dude is looking for. Iuno... I could be wrong but it seems like he's just looking for some solid cooling, mb and case advice to go with a 12900k.
 
ZodaEX said:
You're overthinking things bro. The only person who's bent out of shape is you. I eventually conceded and recommend he buy the i9.
Click to expand...
Ohh, I see 😂

Nah, I'm straight as an arrow, enjoying the thread, waiting to see what kind of gear he pairs with his cpu and case ;)
 
jmilcher said:
This.

And the 5950x does not really have the same of cores. It really has more usable cores.

OP- you need to read up on the P and E cores and differences. The AMD chip has essentially all classic cores (P cores). More raw power with cores. The Intel has the P and E cores. Not the same. Compare P core count to get an idea.

This is coming from a 12700k owner. I also don’t think the 12900k is worth the price increase. It’s also much hotter running than the 12700k. Those are all things to consider.
Click to expand...

Frankly, I simply have the money to go around to buy either one. I do NOT want to be limited later on in any tasks I do, such as my multiple virtual machines, or server hosting, because I decided to cheap out. So to me getting the 12900k on that front was non negotiable.

HOWEVER... you raise a good point, the 5950x is still somewhat of a contender to me... so I made a quick spec for it:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($589.98 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($169.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Lian Li Lancool II Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($179.57 @ Amazon)
Total: $1134.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-03-15 13:44 EDT-0400


Here is a comparable intel spec (note I forgot to put the prices in manually for the AMD spec above, you can lower the overall cost by about $140 or so for it... they're going to be very similar)
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core Processor ($500.00)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($169.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($200.00)
Case: Lian Li Lancool II Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($72.00)
Total: $941.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-03-15 13:51 EDT-0400

My main issue with AMD, possibly, is that its motherboard choices look much sketchier at the same price range (I can't find a clear winner here), and that it might have worse gaming performance, and will be at best a sidegrade for any hosting or VM work I do. AFAIK, the Intel offering will tend to perform better in games... but I did notice on some benchmarks the 5950x (mainly on stuff like Civ 6... which is tempting, I do play some games like that) did better... if they're within spitting distance of each other, I might consider AMD. However I'm a bit worried about there being no good motherboard choices. That Intel board I linked literally has a 5* rating even on newegg at the time I'm writing this, which is almost unheard of for motherboards...

On the other hand, the AMD seems to run cooler while having more actual cores like you said, which is tempting as well.

I'm open to advice on this part.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Frankly, I simply have the money to go around to buy either one. I do NOT want to be limited later on in any tasks I do, such as my multiple virtual machines, or server hosting, because I decided to cheap out. So to me getting the 12900k on that front was non negotiable.

HOWEVER... you raise a good point, the 5950x is still somewhat of a contender to me... so I made a quick spec for it:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($589.98 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($169.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Lian Li Lancool II Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($179.57 @ Amazon)
Total: $1134.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-03-15 13:44 EDT-0400


Here is a comparable intel spec (note I forgot to put the prices in manually for the AMD spec above, you can lower the overall cost by about $140 or so for it... they're going to be very similar)
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core Processor ($500.00)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X73 73.11 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($169.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($200.00)
Case: Lian Li Lancool II Mesh ATX Mid Tower Case ($72.00)
Total: $941.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-03-15 13:51 EDT-0400

My main issue with AMD, possibly, is that its motherboard choices look much sketchier at the same price range (I can't find a clear winner here), and that it might have worse gaming performance, and will be at best a sidegrade for any hosting or VM work I do. AFAIK, the Intel offering will tend to perform better in games... but I did notice on some benchmarks the 5950x (mainly on stuff like Civ 6... which is tempting, I do play some games like that) did better... if they're within spitting distance of each other, I might consider AMD. However I'm a bit worried about there being no good motherboard choices. That Intel board I linked literally has a 5* rating even on newegg at the time I'm writing this, which is almost unheard of for motherboards...

On the other hand, the AMD seems to run cooler while having more actual cores like you said, which is tempting as well.

I'm open to advice on this part.
Click to expand...

AMD wins solid for many multi core loads. Again, no efficiency cores. Everything is plowing at the work at about the same speed when it is given properly programmed code. Also I wont lie, the ADL series is brand new architecture, and Windows 11 is the only real OS that can deal with the E cores "properly". Windows 10 has some issues and will not be getting peak performance with a 12900k using anything but Windows 11.

EXCEPT..... there are some growing pains here. There are software packages that do not work, games that do not work, and sometimes issues with encryption. This boils down to how Windows "sees' the E cores. Basically some progams do not know if they are a physically separate CPU, hyperthreaded CPU's etc. This has caused many people (including myself) to have to lock out the E cores for some apps to run properly. When I do this, I have 8 P cores running and that is it. And again, not a small problem. In fact there are users here who jumped ship from the 5900/5950x to ADL 12700k/12900k when I did, and they went back to AMD because of these well documented growing pains. Just something to consider if stability and program compatibility are top notch priorities. Also there is a very long list of games that simply do not work with ADL at this time. I'd hope you can across that info already if you intend to play many old titles.

As far as motherboards for AMD. There are so many mature options. The x570 options are nice if you need what they offer, and the B550 is right up there with features. B550 came out over a year after the X570 did, and the differences arent much for many users. Honestly B550/X570 is a more proven, mature, stable platform. Also works well with different OS's.

And again, this is coming from a 12700K owner. I left a 5950x and jumped to Intel. I can live with the growing pains of the new architecture. For me it works. But at the end of the day those are all things you will deal with currently if you decide on ADL.
 
jfreund said:
The Lian Li case is listed at $172 under the AMD build, but $72 under the Intel build.

For a "16 core CPU", I'd take 16 full cores with SMT over 8 P cores and 8 E cores. You can probably tell I'm not a fan of the 12900K, though.
Click to expand...
Just noticed that. Same case, different prices.
 
jmilcher said:
EXCEPT..... there are some growing pains here. There are software packages that do not work, games that do not work, and sometimes issues with encryption. This boils down to how Windows "sees' the E cores. Basically some progams do not know if they are a physically separate CPU, hyperthreaded CPU's etc. This has caused many people (including myself) to have to lock out the E cores for some apps to run properly. When I do this, I have 8 P cores running and that is it. And again, not a small problem. In fact there are users here who jumped ship from the 5900/5950x to ADL 12700k/12900k when I did, and they went back to AMD because of these well documented growing pains. Just something to consider if stability and program compatibility are top notch priorities. Also there is a very long list of games that simply do not work with ADL at this time. I'd hope you can across that info already if you intend to play many old titles.
Click to expand...

Oh, if the intel spec doesn't even work with some games, it might not work with some legacy games that I'm interested in playing. That wouldn't be good. If it requires manual patching at a level that can't be taken care of by the OS, I'm guessing I literally won't be able to ever play some of these older games. That's no good. About how much worse is the 5950x than the 12900k at gaming, in general? I've seen some reviews, but it's kind of hard to figure out the ballpark.

jfreund said:
The Lian Li case is listed at $172 under the AMD build, but $72 under the Intel build.
Click to expand...
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Here is a comparable intel spec (note I forgot to put the prices in manually for the AMD spec above, you can lower the overall cost by about $140 or so for it... they're going to be very similar)
Click to expand...
The portion in parentheses here addressed it, I simply forgot to do it on the AMD spec. Nothing more or less.

jmilcher said:
As far as motherboards for AMD. There are so many mature options. The x570 options are nice if you need what they offer, and the B550 is right up there with features. B550 came out over a year after the X570 did, and the differences arent much for many users. Honestly B550/X570 is a more proven, mature, stable platform. Also works well with different OS's.
Click to expand...

Recommendations in the 150-300$ price range?
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Does it work on older games though? And does it work on Windows 10? I'm not sure if I have intentions of going to 11 quite so soon.
Click to expand...
Each game that has an issue has to be manually patched by the game dev. Its not a one patch fix issue that just updates all the games.

There was a list of over 60 AAA titles floating around and even websites dedicated to what games are NOT comaptbile, during the ADL launch.

I'd suggest you look up your specific games and see if there are any issues. Again it is being patched on a per game basis, starting with new games obviously.

As far as gaming, the 5950x will not have any perceivable difference in frame rates. There are many benchmarks showing this. There is no downside to the 5950x and gaming. I am just trying to save you some headaches down the road.

MANY people had issues and either returned the CPU's or went back to AMD over the gaming problems specific to ADL with P and E cores.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
Does it work on older games though? And does it work on Windows 10? I'm not sure if I have intentions of going to 11 quite so soon.
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of any issues. Only issues that have been published were related to DRM and that is almost completely fixed.
 
DooKey said:
I'm not aware of any issues. Only issues that have been published were related to DRM and that is almost completely fixed.
Click to expand...
The scheduler in 10 is not optimized for ADL. This is well documented and even stated by Microsoft.

OP- I suggest doing some independent research on the topic before going that route.
 
jmilcher said:
The scheduler in 10 is not optimized for ADL. This is well documented and even stated by Microsoft.

OP- I suggest doing some independent research on the topic before going that route.
Click to expand...
I was only talking about the gaming non-issues.
 
jmilcher said:
Each game that has an issue has to be manually patched by the game dev. Its not a one patch fix issue that just updates all the games.

There was a list of over 60 AAA titles floating around and even websites dedicated to what games are NOT comaptbile, during the ADL launch.

I'd suggest you look up your specific games and see if there are any issues. Again it is being patched on a per game basis, starting with new games obviously.

As far as gaming, the 5950x will not have any perceivable difference in frame rates. There are many benchmarks showing this. There is no downside to the 5950x and gaming. I am just trying to save you some headaches down the road.

MANY people had issues and either returned the CPU's or went back to AMD over the gaming problems specific to ADL with P and E cores.
Click to expand...


Well, I'm more or less convinced to go AMD now, I guess. Thanks for talking me through this. I didn't realize this new Intel platform was functionally iffy. I just saw that the Intel was newer, slightly lower price, and thought it was more futureproof. But if it has limitations like that, I don't really need it. My only worry is that the 5950x is a bit old at this point? Around 1.5 years old. That's a lot in hardware years, I'm kind of wondering if it's going to be futureproof-ish (for my 5 year target anyway).
 
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StoleMyOwnCar said:
Well, I'm more or less convinced to go AMD now, I guess. Thanks for talking me through this. I didn't realize this new Intel platform was functionally iffy. I just saw that the Intel was newer, slightly lower price, and thought it was more futureproof. But if it has limitations like that, I don't really need it. My only worry is that the 5950x is a bit old at this point? Around 1.5 years old. That's a lot in hardware years, I'm kind of wondering if it's going to be futureproof-ish (for my 5 year target anyway).
Click to expand...
The ADL platform isn't functionally iffy. Anyway, your 5950X will be just fine. The ADL CPUs aren't a significant upgrade that will make it anymore futureproof over what you have.
 
DooKey said:
The ADL platform isn't functionally iffy. Anyway, your 5950X will be just fine. The ADL CPUs aren't a significant upgrade that will make it anymore futureproof over what you have.
Click to expand...

Many in the tech community would disagree imo. It’s been a learning curve for Intel and MS again imo.

OP- the maturity, stability and better game compatibility go to the 5950x and no one can argue that regardless of their opinion on ADL.

And again, this is coming from a pc enthusiast and gamer, who is an early adopter of ADL. I don’t have to defend it just because I bought it. For your needs and wants, a 5950x would be more than enough.
 
jmilcher said:
OP- the maturity, stability and better game compatibility go to the 5950x
Click to expand...
I haven't experienced one game issue with my 12700K. I believe most if not all issues have been worked out by now.
 
jmilcher said:
Many in the tech community would disagree imo. It’s been a learning curve for Intel and MS again imo.

OP- the maturity, stability and better game compatibility go to the 5950x and no one can argue that regardless of their opinion on ADL.

And again, this is coming from a pc enthusiast and gamer, who is an early adopter of ADL. I don’t have to defend it just because I bought it. For your needs and wants, a 5950x would be more than enough.
Click to expand...
LOL. Many in the tech community would agree with me IMO. See how that works?

OP, either platform will work just fine for you. I owned a 5800X and it was great. I own a 12700K and it's great. I have no problem recommending either platform.

As I said before you have a 5950X. Stick with it.
 
DooKey said:
As I said before you have a 5950X. Stick with it.
Click to expand...

...? I don't have one... if I had one I definitely would not be making this topic. As the opening post says, I have an 8700k at the moment. Actually when I was thinking of upgrading originally I kind of had an itch to make an AMD spec since it's been a long time since I've went something besides Intel. However, I saw that the 12900k was not only cheaper but newer at Microcenter, so I gravitated towards that. But seeing the info in this thread, I'm going back and probably picking up a 5950x soon. I hope it will last 5 years or so.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
...? I don't have one... if I had one I definitely would not be making this topic. As the opening post says, I have an 8700k at the moment. Actually when I was thinking of upgrading originally I kind of had an itch to make an AMD spec since it's been a long time since I've went something besides Intel. However, I saw that the 12900k was not only cheaper but newer at Microcenter, so I gravitated towards that. But seeing the info in this thread, I'm going back and probably picking up a 5950x soon. I hope it will last 5 years or so.
Click to expand...
With the time you got out of the 8700K, I'd bet you'll get good years from the 5950X. My 5800X from launch time has been great and I haven't gone to a higher core count just because I don't really have a use for more cores.

Alder Lake is a solid platform overall, but the E cores are kind of a waste of silicon, especially in a DIY build. The mid/lower range is where ADL really beat AMD, but we'll see if that holds with the new Ryzen releases.
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
...? I don't have one... if I had one I definitely would not be making this topic. As the opening post says, I have an 8700k at the moment. Actually when I was thinking of upgrading originally I kind of had an itch to make an AMD spec since it's been a long time since I've went something besides Intel. However, I saw that the 12900k was not only cheaper but newer at Microcenter, so I gravitated towards that. But seeing the info in this thread, I'm going back and probably picking up a 5950x soon. I hope it will last 5 years or so.
Click to expand...
Sorry bout that. Saw you mention one. You'll get good service out of a 5950X for the next several years if you do go that route.
 
So the build is done. I'm not really a pro at cable management but I would say I did okay. Thanks for all of the help with nudging me towards AMD.
img_DSC_0592.jpg
img_DSC_0594.jpg



Few things:
- Noticed that I didn't even have to reinstall windows. I just plugged in my old NVME and it fired up to my desktop after a few restarts... that really surprised me... I should probably reinstall at some point anyway, but every game I tried is running smoothly.
- It's pretty much silent most of the time, even when gaming. Prime95 did get temps up to 90C sometimes, though... although most of the time it was around 60-76C
- Apparently my ram isn't stable at its XMP settings:
1647750037936.png

When I turned off XMP, Prime95 ran just fine. I guess I need different ram at some point? It didn't crash during gaming with XMP turned on, though... Not sure what to get.
- Also noticed that I get different temperatures out of the ASUS preloaded app and other stuff... I'm guessing ASUS is just one of the cores? The is listed as "CPU package" in openhardwaremonitor

-
1647750195939.png


Here's the final build:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Rccq3y
 
jfreund said:
What's the voltage on the RAM?

Have you tried the other DIMM slots?
Click to expand...

Good call, I derped when I was building this because I was so tired at that point and put the 2 ram sticks in slots A1 and B1. Not sure why I thought that was the dual channel configuration.

Put them both in A1 and A2 and then enabled XMP again...

1647798480574.png

1647798505782.png

Had no issues.
 
if your doing stability testing make sure the aio is at max, pump and fans. and if you do run into anymore ram errors, just bump the voltage .05v.
 
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