11th Gen Tiger Lake and Xe graphics launch event

Nightfire

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Intel just unveiled a very interesting mobile CPU (APU?) on the heels of Nvidias new GPU launch.
https://www.techpowerup.com/271685/intel-11th-gen-core-tiger-lake-xe-graphics-launch-event-live-blog

These are Intel's claims so we will see how well they hold up in the reviews. It looks like 4/8 core is the max, but Intel claims they hold their own against an 8/16 Renoir in most applications. The AI performance was especially intriguing for me.

Overall, TGL is looking VERY impressive! I imagine RKL will get most of these features with 8/16 core power abeit a lesser igpu.
 

Nightfire

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20200902_193007.jpg


Here is the full lineup. The G4 lineup are most likely much more affordable, but are not available until 2021. Intel being Intel.
 

sirmonkey1985

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yeah i was watching the intel presentation as well, i was sitting there going, they sure do talk about the 4800u a lot.. then saw Steve's video after i got home from work, guess i wasn't the only one thinking that.
 

defaultluser

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I'd be lot more interested if we were seeing 8-core 10nm Tiger Lake desktop chips before 2021.

Rocket Lake is such a fucking joke - it's going to be clocked 10% slower than Skylake++++ parts (to mostly erase that Ice Lake 18% IPC bump). And that 32EU GPU is going to be around half the speed of Ice lake.

They're running into both a power and die size wall.

https://www.techpowerup.com/269164/...ke-will-be-slimmer-than-the-one-on-tiger-lake
 
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Snowdog

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I'd be lot more interested if we were seeing 8-core 10nm Tiger Lake desktop chips before 2021.

Rocket Lake is such a fucking joke - it's going to be clocked 10% slower than Skylake++++ parts (to mostly erase that Ice Lake 18% IPC bump). And that 32EU GPU is going to be around half the speed of Ice lake.

They're running into both a power and die size wall.

https://www.techpowerup.com/269164/...ke-will-be-slimmer-than-the-one-on-tiger-lake

People aren't going to buy Rocket Lake for IGP performance, they can stay minimal there. Heck the could have skipped the rocket iGP altogether, to better compete with AMD desktop chips.

They need to get Rocket lake out ASAP, before everyone starts testing GPUs with AMD CPUs, which is practically Intels last minor bastion.
 

defaultluser

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People aren't going to buy Rocket Lake for IGP performance, they can stay minimal there.

And yet, Rocket Lake U is intended to cover the same area as Comet Lake U 6-cores. That will mean faster GPU than HD630, but not anywhere near double.

The report also mentions another 14nm mobility replacement for Comet Lake-H and Comet Lake-U CPUs in the form of Rocket Lake-H and Rocket Lake-U.

Most of those went in budget notebooks, and various NUC clones (while those rare Ice Lake processors were saved for premium notebooks...you bet your ass that Intel will continue to ship with IGP, and do the same until they have mass-quantities of Tigerlake-H.
 

Snowdog

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I said desktop, so Rocket Lake S, is what I was talking about, and the part they need to join the PCIe 4 generation on Desktop.
 

Aegir

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When AMD finally defeats Intel and become The Big One, I sure hope they don't turn evil and incompetent too.
 

Ready4Dis

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People aren't going to buy Rocket Lake for IGP performance, they can stay minimal there. Heck the could have skipped the rocket iGP altogether, to better compete with AMD desktop chips.

They need to get Rocket lake out ASAP, before everyone starts testing GPUs with AMD CPUs, which is practically Intels last minor bastion.
How else can they test pcie 4.0 vs pcie 3.0? Every single one of those comparisons is going to be with an AMD system ;).
 

Nightfire

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HUB did a review of the 15w 4800u and the efficiency looked unreal.
Screenshot_20200905-134951_YouTube.jpg


The comparisons were against ICL of course, but TGL sure had its work cut out for it if it plans on catching up in the ultra portable world.

 

thesmokingman

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People keep talking about NVidia being scared of AMD with the really great RTX 3000 series reveal.

They need to contrast the NVidia announcement, with Intels.

Intel shows you what scared looks like.

Really? I've never gotten that impression. Nvidia exudes what boss looks like.
 

Snowdog

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Really? I've never gotten that impression. Nvidia exudes what boss looks like.

I have seen lots of people say everything from the performance, the pricing, and cooler design of the Ampere is because NVidia is scared...

I don't get that impression either. I just pointed out the contrast between Intel vs NVidia product reveals, so those people could spot differences and see what scared actually looks like.

NVidia - just lays out why their product is awesome, never mentions AMD once.

Intel - Might have mentioned AMD products more than their own, even resorted to name calling put downs, calling AMD "imitators". Reeked of desperation.
 

thesmokingman

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I have seen lots of people say everything from the performance, the pricing, and cooler design of the Ampere is because NVidia is scared...

I don't get that impression either. I just pointed out the contrast between Intel vs NVidia product reveals, so those people could spot differences and see what scared actually looks like.

NVidia - just lays out why their product is awesome, never mentions AMD once.

Intel - Might have mentioned AMD products more than their own, even resorted to name calling put downs, calling AMD "imitators". Reeked of desperation.

Yea, Intel are totally triggered by AMD it's kind of sad and pathetic now. They should be concentrating on making the best product they can instead of all this BS smoke and mirrors crap... and stop with all these lame slides already.
 

Ready4Dis

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Yea, Intel are totally triggered by AMD it's kind of sad and pathetic now. They should be concentrating on making the best product they can instead of all this BS smoke and mirrors crap... and stop with all these lame slides already.
If they had products that spoke for themselves they would be able to turn down the marketing speak... they don't, so they can't ;)
 

Aperture05

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Preliminary results that's appeared on GB5 indicate that 1165G7 at 28W performs very similarly to 4700U in multi, with a 30-40% increase in single
 

defaultluser

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Preliminary results that's appeared on GB5 indicate that 1165G7 at 28W performs very similarly to 4700U in multi, with a 30-40% increase in single

And I'll also be amazed at the single-threaded performance improvement achieved when AMD jumps Renoir up from 1MB L3 cache per-core up to 3MB L3. Such an amazing achievement!

I give Intel credit WHEN they can finally ship a 10-nm chip that is LARGER than Renoir,in-quantity but we're still waiting :rolleyes:

Zen 3 APU is expected to get at least 20% total performance improvement, and they will also finally jump up the L3 cache (should make-up that additional 10%)
 
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Aperture05

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And I'll also be amazed at the single-threaded performance improvement achieved when AMD jumps Renoir up from 1MB L3 cache per-core up to 3MB L3. Such an amazing achievement!

I give Intel credit WHEN they can finally ship a 10-nm chip that is LARGER than Renoir, but we're still waiting :rolleyes:

Zen 3 APU is expected to get at least 20% total performance improvement, and they will also finally jump up the L3 cache.

Rumour mill also says that there will be 8C16T TGL-H chips. We'll see if they actually exist soon anyway.
 

defaultluser

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Rumour mill also says that there will be 8C16T TGL-H chips. We'll see if they actually exist soon anyway.


Those are coming well after Rocket Lake (also not releasing until the end of the year/early next year).

If they were confident at-all about Tiger Lake H, then they wouldn't need a hack-job like Rocket. I will be shocked if we see H before Q3 next year.

Intel is already prioritizing giant 10nm server chips, along with double the Ice Lake die size in Tiger Lake. Are you trying to tell me they will solve their production issues inside just six months?

Even if the process is finally resolved, it takes time to ramp-up all those other fabs.
 

Aperture05

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Those are coming well after Rocket Lake (also not releasing until the end of the year/early next year).

If they were confident at-all about Tiger Lake H, then they wouldn't need a hack-job like Rocket. I will be shocked if we see H before Q3 next year.

Intel is alreaaady prioritizing gianyt 10nm server chips, alsong with almost doiuble the die size in nTiger Lake. Are you trying to tell me theey will solve their production issues inside just six months?

I'm not telling you anything except rumours say that they exist. Your choice to extrapolate.
 

Nightfire

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I'd be lot more interested if we were seeing 8-core 10nm Tiger Lake desktop chips before 2021.

Rocket Lake is such a fucking joke - it's going to be clocked 10% slower than Skylake++++ parts (to mostly erase that Ice Lake 18% IPC bump). And that 32EU GPU is going to be around half the speed of Ice lake.

They're running into both a power and die size wall.

https://www.techpowerup.com/269164/...ke-will-be-slimmer-than-the-one-on-tiger-lake

8 core TGL on its way; unknown date 2021.
https://www.techpowerup.com/272137/intel-confirms-development-of-8-core-tiger-lake-h-processors

So similiar to RKL in that it will only have 32 EU.
 

defaultluser

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https://www.anandtech.com/show/16084/intel-tiger-lake-review-deep-dive-core-11th-gen

Reviews for the 1185G8 are out. I am very impressed by how much they've managed to fix the node and gpu (and about time too!)

But now that it finally has faster single-threaded performance than both Skylake and Renoir, its quite painfully missing an extra 2-4 cores.

Four cores could be forgiven back in 2019, but here in late 2020, it's a joke of a high-end laptop. We will see if Intel can deliver H by summer of 2021.

Xe is the most impressive part of Tiger Lake, (but how many notebooks will get anywhere near the 4.2Ghz DRAM it needs to power itself?)
 
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Nightfire

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But now that it finally has faster single-threaded performance than both Skylake and Renoir, it'd quite painfully missing an extra 2-4 cores.

Four cores could be forgiven back in 2019, but here in late 2020, it's a joke of a high-end laptop. We will see if Intel can deliver H by summer of 2021.

Xe is the most impressive part of Tiger Lake, (but how many notebooks will get anywhere near the 4.2Ghz DRAM it needs to power itself?)

Well, it gives us some idea about RKL. TGL didn't show any real ipc improvements over ICL, but combined with the 4.8ghz single core boost, it showed some nice performance in ST. I saw 600 points in CB20 ST in pc world.
The new superfin 10nm gave it a nice 20% higher performance watt per watt over ICL which is impressive considering they are the same node size.

Back to RKL - It will be 8 core, but unknown the frequency cap. I would imagine ST would hit similiar levels so Intel may still hold the gaming crown even with Zen 3 launching. AMD will have more cores, but few if any games scale past 8 cores.

Still, I would like to see what Renoir could do with a good amount of cache. And yeah, 4/8 just won't cut it for most of us even in a laptop.
 

1/2 bent

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I cant wait for a Tigerlake laptop. It will actually be able to play a lot of modern games.
 

Nightfire

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https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-...iGPU-attacs-Entry-Level-GeForce.496234.0.html

First "good" review of TGL. Asus managed to fuck up their zenbook, yet again. At the same power limit, this el cheapo subnotebook is consistently 15-30% better than the zenbook

That review was rather hard to follow for me. The laptop designs were all over the place so it was hard to get real direct comparisons to Ice Lake or Renoir.

Graphics performance was very good, but cpu speeds quickly dropped when things got hot. TGL was compared to a 4700u, but a 4800u would have given it more trouble on MT and ST as well. Even the 6/12 4600u typically edges out the 8/8 4700 in everything outside gaming.

Not bad as long as the price is right, like anything else.
 

Aperture05

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That review was rather hard to follow for me. The laptop designs were all over the place so it was hard to get real direct comparisons to Ice Lake or Renoir.

Graphics performance was very good, but cpu speeds quickly dropped when things got hot. TGL was compared to a 4700u, but a 4800u would have given it more trouble on MT and ST as well. Even the 6/12 4600u typically edges out the 8/8 4700 in everything outside gaming.

Not bad as long as the price is right, like anything else.

Its even harder to follow this gen because while Intel reduced the number of skus (yay!), they now have a wide range of TDP Up and TDP Down configuration, between 12W and 36W (in rare cases). Issue is that the way the firmware is designed means you can't tell whether a laptop is set to which limit, it will always read 28W/15W depending on the SKU.
 
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When AMD finally defeats Intel and become The Big One, I sure hope they don't turn evil and incompetent too.

Incompetence is usually something that starts at the top. When engineer CEOs retire and are replaced by MBA pump-and-dumpers. AMD will hold the course as long as Lisu Su is at the helm. When she retires is when AMD will become incompetent again, because MBAs are great at winning hierarchy power struggles.
 

Nightfire

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TGL tested in Linux against Renoir and ICL:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel-tigerlake-linux&num=1

These laptop tests are never apples to apples, but a few things stick out.

- The 6/6 4500u often beat the top end TGL part.
- AVG clocks of TGL was only 200mhz over ICL

Some of the shortcomings here may be due to Linux, but it seems that, when in an actual OEM laptop, TGL clocks are just not that impressive.
 
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