11 Year Old Racks Up $1,750 Xbox Live Bill

I'm going to repost this, since a large majority of the people here seem to be missing this part.

You do not get the option to not save your credit card information. There is no option. If you pay for something on your xbox using a credit card, all your info is saved so you don't have to put it in again, you have no choice in the matter (other than to not use a credit card). There is no checkbox, there is no "remove card" link, there is no "delete", there is no notification asking you to agree to this, it's just how xbox live works. There are only two ways to remove a credit card from your xbox live account. You can add a new card and remove the old one, or you can call up microsoft and have them delete the xbox live account (this has to be done immediately, so you lose the remainder of your subscription).

I'm still not defending this pair of idiots, just trying to show how much of a scam this xbox live service is.
There is.... Just need a little research. This is all connected to one big Live account. I just went to my Xbox portion of my live account option and guess what. There is an option to remove my credit card. Now thats on a website connected to an email address that every time points are added gets emailed. The address is even given as part of the credit card charge. Now I don't have my X-box in front of me and it may not give an option to not remember (or delete), but then again if you don't want to use a credit card they sell Gold subs and points at best buy so you don't have to enter a credit card.

Microsoft does give you billions of ways including turning purchasing off altogether to not rack up 2k in charges throughout a 6 month period.
 
Boy, he has that puppy dog face down to a tee.

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Well, she's definitely not the best looking around, same goes for the kid.

But it makes me wonder, how much stuff do you have to be buying on a per-day basis to rack up almost $2000 worth of bills? Does he have all of the games for xbox ever made on there or something?
 
Wow I just realized. That kid still has a controller in his hand. Dude don't go near alcohol and/or drugs when you get older. Not a good sign.
 
Oh, one more "I like to add"

If the kid was so addicted to the 360, then his mum should of done what my brother did to my nephew, throw his 360 out of the back bedroom window onto the concrete patio.

My nephew wouldnt stop playing his 360 and he wouldnt go out during the school summer holidays, he would stay in all day and night playing his 360 and he wouldnt take a telling to go out and do something instead of playing his 360 24/7.

They had just moved to a house in the country and my nephew was finding it hard to fit in and find new country friends and, he was also missing his old friends from the city. Instead of making new friends he would rather sit at home and play his 360 and speak to his old friends who he is unlikely to ever see again due to the distance involved.

My bro warned him to stop playing on his 360 and to go find some friends or else, but my nephew thought he was joking :) they had a little arguement about the situation and my bro told him to stop playing it or he was gunna throw it out the window, nephew laughed at him and said "yea right" thinking he wouldnt do it, bad move, seconds later bye bye 360 :D

In the end it worked out good for my nephew, as he got the newer version of the 360 with a larger hdd that he had been wanting a week later, so overall he was happy and it did force him to go out and start finding new friends in his new neighbourhood.

All is now good, he has a new 360, he has new country friends and he hooks up with his country and city friends on his 360, so life is all good for him now :)
 
Zarathustra[H];1036820485 said:
The truth is, you can not trust children to do the right thing, as their brains are not fully developed.

They can - on a whim - decide they don't care about money and go on a shopping spring. Having worked or not, they don't have the same concept of money as an adult does.

The problem with these system sis that it is impossible for parents (even when there are two of them) to constantly monitor everything the kid does on their console (or phone for that matter).

The online store operators, like the PS3 store, the Xbox store, iTunes, various mobile ringtone stores, etc.) know this, so they make it as easy as possible for kids to abuse the system.

For example, if a parent adds a credit card to the Xbox store to allow a kid to buy a game, there is NO WAY TO REMOVE THE CREDIT CARD without replacing it with another card. There is also no way to password protect the system, so irresponsible kids can go nuts.

This is part of the business plan of these companies. They create them intentionally to prevent parents from being able to put controls in place just so that the kids can run up ridiculous bills and they can reply "sorry, not our problem".

It ought to be illegal.

Another thing I should mention is that all kids mature at different rates. Just because some are more mature at a certain age, does not mean all will be. It is more biological than a matter of parenting. Secondly, your memories of how mature you personally were at 11, are likely wildly inaccurate. I felt like I was an adult at 11-13. Kids automatically - will feel more mature than they are, and most people have very selective memories going back and thinking about that time in their lives.

You my good sir are a sight for sore eyes :D
 
That kid is going to be mowing a lot of yards or shoveling snow, looks like he needs some sun and exercise anyway. When I was growing up I never was able to touch a credit card until I was age 18.
 
Look, saying you can't remove or edit the card just isn't correct. You have the choice to remove the card completely.

Parental controls stop EVERY purchase by a minor child.

There are 50 different ways to pay for your XBL account and items

This was just a major FAIL on the parents part, simple as that. I'm sorry she didn't know how to work parental controls. I'm sorry she didn't know how to remove her card or how to check her own bank account, etc. etc. etc. but you can remove / edit your card whenever you want and PARENTAL CONTROLS will avoid all of this in the first place.

bs_XBL_argument.gif
 
Had she just bought him super meat boy he'd have been too busy to spend all this money on other stuff.
 
Look, saying you can't remove or edit the card just isn't correct. You have the choice to remove the card completely.

Parental controls stop EVERY purchase by a minor child.

Again, This must be a recent addition. Back when I researched it a few years ago, I couldn't find any way to remove my card, or to put any kind of parental restrictions on it, so I just refused to let the kids associate my card with the service.

We don't have an Xbox 360 in the house anymore. (partially as a result of the above) so I have not seen the updates since.

The PS3 was a little bit better in this regard, with some parental controls, but it is amazing to me that on the PS3 it is not possible to password restrict individual accounts, and prevent new accounts from being created without access to some sort of admin account.

I found it impossible to ground my stepson and cut off his PS3 use without impacting everyone in the house for this reason.

Either way, its not a big deal for me now. I'm throwing out that PS3 ASAP, now that the new firmware allows Sony to execute arbitrary code on the machine. There is no way that thing is going on my network.
 
She probably spends all her time "working and singing" (is that what they call it nowadays?), and leaves the kid alone at home playing games. Add to that never looking at the statements .......and presto - instant recipe to blame someone else for your problem.:rolleyes:
 
Come people, he's a kid, kids make dumb mistakes, it shouldn't cost him more than $1,000!!!

Why are there so many jerks that take the side of the big rich corporations?!? Just revoke his license, cut off his service, whatever, and give the kid a refund already. :confused:
 
Zarathustra[H];1036821681 said:
Again, This must be a recent addition. Back when I researched it a few years ago, I couldn't find any way to remove my card, or to put any kind of parental restrictions on it, so I just refused to let the kids associate my card with the service.

Smart man, smart man!
 
Boy, he has that puppy dog face down to a tee.

mm%20xbox%2002.02.11_PD1807463_l.jpg

She has the "I don't really know what is going on, but I am highly offended and wronged by your actions" look down pretty good too.


MS may have made micro transactions too easy, but she did not take the time to figure out what was going on.

Parental controls were just not used, and she did not pay any attention to her CC statement for 6 months. That makes this mostly the moms fault here imo..
 
i racked up $80 extra on the phone bill by calling a nintendo 900 number back in the late 80s. My mom paid it and I got an ass whopping..never did it again...
 
I will say the mother could have spent some more time involved with her son, seeing what he is doing and explaining that some things cost real world money.

That said, there is no doubt to me that many large corporations (cough BofA cough Banks cough) are very predatory in how the systems are set up. In the name of service and ease of use money can be spent with just a click or two and taking credit card info off an account takes an act of God.

As a former debit card claims supervisor for a very large corporation, I know how many companies, like AOL, will get a credit/debit card and simply refuse to stop billing it. All in the name of Ooops we forgot, we didnt get your letter, oh no jump though this hoop here.

I know many people who would have to cancel their card to get company X to not be able to bill them. With AOL, even after canceling the card, they would still (claim) to have the account open and take people to court and sue for more money. Not everyone has the time, energy or resources to respond to that.

Are most companies as bad as AOL and B of A? No. Is microsoft that bad? I dont know. I do know that corporate greed is real and to simply blame a single mom working two jobs is simplistic and well, in my mind, stupid.
 
To the guy saying the parental controls are a recent addition...no they are not. The parental controls on the 360 to stop all of this stuff has been on there for quite some time.
 
I don't know, maybe I am just being a dick...

BUT

...it's just one of those parental things, I guess. I believe that, as a parent, it is my job to know what my son is playing, to know what movies he is watching, so on and so forth. It is my job to make sure the kid doesn't get into any online mischief, isn't chatting with pedophiles and isn't a smack talking piece of crap like 80% of the little bastards out there.

And I would certainly know if my son is playing $1,750 worth of games / movies / etc. that I didn't buy him.

Maybe I just expect too much out of people when it comes to raising their kids and accepting responsibility for their actions.

To the guy saying the parental controls are a recent addition...no they are not. The parental controls on the 360 to stop all of this stuff has been on there for quite some time.

And yes, you are right, parental controls were there since day one. :)

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2005/11/22/microsoft_xbox_360/
 
Stupid kid, I guess his dumbass didn't know things on XBL weren't free? Especially when you got to CONFIRM purchases with $$. Jeez, I feel sorry for the poor mom who has to deal with this kid. She should take away his xbox and tv and pawn it.
 
she looks like one of those wannabe hip moms. I mean knee high boots, busty shirt? take it easy mom, this ain't about you.

Fashion trends in England differ from the US. Hell, the US is not even on the same sheet of music from one coast to the other. Besides, if I am going to make myself look like an idiot in the press, I might as well look as good as possible while doing. She ain't really pulling it off, but hey, a girl has got to try.
 
This sucks for her, but she let it go on for 6 months so that is her fault. If they give her the money back, just wait that will open up for everyone claiming it was their kids that were the one that bought stuff on live not them and start demanding their money back.

You can't blame the big bad company for you not being able to watch over your own kid.
 
I don't know, maybe I am just being a dick...

BUT

...it's just one of those parental things, I guess. I believe that, as a parent, it is my job to know what my son is playing, to know what movies he is watching, so on and so forth. It is my job to make sure the kid doesn't get into any online mischief, isn't chatting with pedophiles and isn't a smack talking piece of crap like 80% of the little bastards out there.

And I would certainly know if my son is playing $1,750 worth of games / movies / etc. that I didn't buy him.

Maybe I just expect too much out of people when it comes to raising their kids and accepting responsibility for their actions.



And yes, you are right, parental controls were there since day one. :)

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2005/11/22/microsoft_xbox_360/

I fully agree with you Steve. that is the problem, too many people don't want to be responsible for their kids. People like you are the few parents that understand what it really means to be a parent.
 
Oh yes, parents should be responsible for their kids - but - where that kids lives don't they have laws that require merchants to give refunds in cases like this where a kid buys something he shouldn't have bought?

Let's a kid is upset at his parents, maybe his parents had a shitty bad day and chewed the kid out for some not quite so terrible bad thing the kid did, kid gets upset, not thinking straight, finds $1,000 that was set aside for a bank deposit later... Kid takes the money, goes and buys something.

Well, AFAIK, by law, whatever merchant sold that something to the kid is obligated to give a refund even if there was a clearly stated sign "no refunds" the sign does not auto-magically trump the law in place to protect children/protect parents from children's immature mistakes like that...

I knew about the law when I was a kid and I knew full well whenever I bought something be it a magazine, or a gas model engine for an R/C toy - no matter what the store's policy was that they would be required by law to give me a refund because I was not able to enter into a "legally binding contract" (in this case, a sale).

Seems like most of you are so eager to "throw stones" at others and say "I wouldn't do that, serves them right, teach them a lesson"... It does not make the world a better place to wish for others to suffer, even if they are "stupid" or look funny/ugly to you.
 
Put simply, the sale when the kid clicked the button is not a legal contract between Microsoft and someone else, because that someone else was a minor.
 
I'm sure each of the millions of sales by Microsoft on X-Box live to minors could be refundable if legally contested.
 
im sure his stripper mum can pay his debt. I guess they dont have online account management. She must never check her account balance. This story is about a dumb parent that finally noticed she was losing money. She obviously isnt doing that bad after all. If my kid racked up a g in my account with online purchases i would be like what the EF is going on within the first few weeks.
 
This is why you set your kids up on a family account. My nephews are under my account and under and I have a family pack. only I can make purchases and I allow them microsoft points to buy stuff, they cant buy anything other then whatever they can buy with the allowance I give them in microsoft points. I think microsoft did a good job in the family pack, only my screen name is allowed to purchase stuff with my card.
 
Microsoft has made the tools available to disable a credit card so that cases like this one don't happen. Her claims that:

'These companies should take some responsibility. They take advantage of vulnerable people.'

'It is ridiculous to allow someone of his age to make payments without any checks being done.'

'...blames Microsoft for making it 'too easy' for her son to spend the money.'

'It is ridiculous to allow someone of his age to make payments without any checks being done.'


All of these statements are false. Having made tools to limit credit card use available, Microsoft cannot be held responsible for user error and failure to take advantage of the necessary steps to limit user error. The mother should take responsibility for her part in this incident, in not disabling the credit card. Had she done so, this would not have happened.

Having said all this, Microsoft should be the "bigger person" and refund her for all these purchases, while of course removing all the content. Microsoft certainly does not have to, but humanity and mercy says that it should. Echoing the mother's statement, 'A thousand pounds isn't that much to people like Bill Gates, but for a single mum it is a lot of money that I don't have.'
 
I'm not sure who to blame in this scenario.

The 11 year old should not have done this, no doubt. But, at 11 years old, most kids don't have a concept of the value of money. Therefore, a few purchases here and there can really add up without him realizing it.

I know Microsoft offers parental control settings on their system for this reason, but parents these days often never touch the systems. Most don't know how to use them or how they work, and therefore leave it up to the children to figure out. So, it is entirely possible that the mother had no idea these parental controls existed, OR that Microsoft was saving her card number for Live purchases...
 
Zarathustra[H];1036821681 said:
Again, This must be a recent addition. Back when I researched it a few years ago, I couldn't find any way to remove my card, or to put any kind of parental restrictions on it, so I just refused to let the kids associate my card with the service.

But there as always been Gold service and points cards.
 
I'm not sure who to blame in this scenario.

The 11 year old should not have done this, no doubt. But, at 11 years old, most kids don't have a concept of the value of money. Therefore, a few purchases here and there can really add up without him realizing it.

I know Microsoft offers parental control settings on their system for this reason, but parents these days often never touch the systems. Most don't know how to use them or how they work, and therefore leave it up to the children to figure out. So, it is entirely possible that the mother had no idea these parental controls existed, OR that Microsoft was saving her card number for Live purchases...

The point is Microsoft gives tons of options for people who don't want to use their card. Why should we have to enter in our card with every transaction on the Xbox just because a mother can't go to best buy, watch her card activity for 5 months, set up parental controls (which she should do not just for purchases but play time 1k over 6 months implies that kid has been playing waaaay to much), or remove her card?

PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, and PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY should be expected. We shouldn't lose our luxuries because its not.
 
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