11 States Now Considering Bills to Protect Your Right to Repair

Zarathustra[H]

Zarathustra[H]

Extremely [H]
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Oct 29, 2000
Messages
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In a world where farmers can just be cornholed by John Deere and Apple is free to screw over its users as well, there are now so called "Right to Repair" bills being considered in 11 states. The bills require manufacturers to sell replacement parts to consumers and provide open source repair and diagnostic manuals, as well as providing the tools necessary to bypass any software locks that prevent repairs.

If you ask me, bills like these are absolutely crucial. It is shameful that companies like Apple either refuse to repair or make repairs so expensive that you might as well buy something new.

So far this year, tech company lobbying looks like it will defeat right to repair bills in Minnesota and Nebraska; lawmakers in Tennessee recently decided to defer voting on its bill until 2018. Legislation is still pending in New York, Massachusetts, Illinois, Kansas, Wyoming, Iowa, Missouri, and North Carolina.
 
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
 
Personally I figure one giant ass thread on it.. keep the discussion going, but that wasn't the point. Just letting other folk know where the discussion has been.
 
Good old F$#K the consumer and user, Remember the quality goes out before the name goes on...... I for one will not buy from these A-hole companies....
 
This should apply to GM vehicles too. Ever tried checking the transmission fluid level on a Pontiac g6? Have to crawl under the car (while it's level so you have to lift it), use a socket wrench to unscrew a bolt, then watch the fluid drip at a certain rate during a certain amount of time to verify the level, all while the car is on and the engine is hot (has to be hot or the reading could be off). Wtf ever happened to a dipstick? They did this to make you come into the dealer and pay them $200 to check the levels.

Oh and to change a light bulb you have to remove the ENTIRE FUCKING LIGHT ASSEMBLY to remove and replace a bulb, this requires removing part of the bumper too.

Giant pain in the ass.
 
One of the biggest problems with manufacturers is their policy of voiding warranties when something is cracked open. Sure, there are fools that mess stuff up when opening... but most people busting seals have some kind of know how. Would like to to see some federal movement on this.
 
DukenukemX said:
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
Click to expand...
Depends if you're on the receiving or the supplying end of those "good things". If we could just get rid of the idiots ruining running the place, NY could join the race to the top instead of dominating the race to the bottom. Personally, I'd love to see the state split into N. NY & S. NY.
 
If this passes in any one of the states, that would basically make it available to everyone.
 
mynamehere said:
Depends if you're on the receiving or the supplying end of those "good things". If we could just get rid of the idiots ruining running the place, NY could join the race to the top instead of dominating the race to the bottom. Personally, I'd love to see the state split into N. NY & S. NY.
Click to expand...

The top benefits in the long run when the people at the bottom prosper. Buying one less Ferrari every year is not going to hurt that much.
 
DukenukemX said:
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
Click to expand...

Just who is going to pay for all of that? Free college even if you have a IQ of 50? Classrooms are already packed, they can't take on anybody else.

I got a degree from SUNY, I paid for it myself by working.

As for $15, this will kill all simple jobs like fast food and you are going to see kiosks becoming the norm so this will only hurt high school and college students.
 
DukenukemX said:
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
Click to expand...
You joking right ? you mean to tell me they dbl the minimum wage everything New York is going even more expensive last I heard that apartments there for Rent in New York, NY - From $1200+ a month just for a Studio just more other big city
There not going solve any thing by bump up the minimum wage they only going make problem get even worst then all ready is if ask me
 
Last edited:
HorseproofBacon said:
This should apply to GM vehicles too. Ever tried checking the transmission fluid level on a Pontiac g6? Have to crawl under the car (while it's level so you have to lift it), use a socket wrench to unscrew a bolt, then watch the fluid drip at a certain rate during a certain amount of time to verify the level, all while the car is on and the engine is hot (has to be hot or the reading could be off). Wtf ever happened to a dipstick? They did this to make you come into the dealer and pay them $200 to check the levels.

Oh and to change a light bulb you have to remove the ENTIRE FUCKING LIGHT ASSEMBLY to remove and replace a bulb, this requires removing part of the bumper too.

Giant pain in the ass.
Click to expand...
LoL I know it really piss me off as well and no just GM just so you know
 
So, when you assholes go to a restaurant, do you tip?

Or write a note about how righteous you are?

WTF happened to humanity?
 
I think it was VW that a co-worker bought that when he went to change the oil, he couldn't find the oil filter. Turns out it is behind a door that requires a key you can only get from the dealership, just to open it up to change the filter. He asked the mechanic at the dealership if he could buy a key, they said sure, for $400. Seriously, you have to pay $400 just so you can change your own oil!

If people would just stop buying things because they are cool, or in fashion, or are supposed to be the best, and refuse to buy when they start doing things like this then the companies would stop doing it when they lose sales. I think United Airlines got a wake up call this week as far as customer relations are concerned, and John Deere and Apple may be awakening sleeping bears in their respective market segments too.

But if the trend continues, it might pay to be a little bit of a Luddite.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
In a world where farmers can just be cornholed by John Deere and Apple is free to screw over its users as well
Click to expand...

If you do it right cornholed and screwed isnt so bad... I vote we find a better word for describing what these companies are doing to consumers.

It is more like Apple is shoving the whole damned tree up your ass, no lube and extra splinters and telling you how lucky you are each splinters in festering.

Come on Congress pull your collective luddite heads out your asses. Selling a product that is designed to be unrepairable and to self destruct if a repair attempt is made would be ludicrous to our founding fathers.

The John Deere thing didnt surprise me. It did disgust me.

I learned a very long time ago you just dont fuck with, piss off, irritate, or annoy anyone involved in the production of anything you are planning to eat. It is just plain stupid, dumb, and idiotic.

Tractors you cant fix yourself because they auto lock.

Parts that have to be super secret Apple black box calibrated.

Sad it is I dont remember all the fun I must have had while I was still alive to get condemned to this HELL.


Err...... Um.......

/Rant off
/Deactivate Soap Box Mode

-EB
 
5icko said:
One of the biggest problems with manufacturers is their policy of voiding warranties when something is cracked open. Sure, there are fools that mess stuff up when opening... but most people busting seals have some kind of know how. Would like to to see some federal movement on this.
Click to expand...

The only likely federal movement we are going to get for the next, oh, four year, is going to be rightly and properly flushed. Then leave a messy, smelly, bathroom because anyone willing to take the job of cleaning it had been deported.
 
Why is this necessary for any other reason than to tie up gov't time?

No, companies should not be required to create DIY manuals for every backyard Joe. Then I, as a consumer, get stuck with the added cost these companies bare due to increased liability claims when backyard Joe screws stuff up. Its not sticking it to the man- CEOs will still make $$$ and the only thing we will have succeeded in doing is increasing our reliance on gov't to make good choices for the unwashed masses.

Don't like Apple repair costs? Your choices are buy something else, or understand that the value of an item is for the time you yourself can keep it running. Companies sell a product, not a lifetime experience.

Seriously, if you can't change your own oil without a free manual, you shouldn't be doing it. I do all the work on all my vehicles and have never thought to myself "man, what a terrible company- they should be responsible for educating me on the mechanical engineering of what I paid for!"
 
Mr34727 said:
Why is this necessary for any other reason than to tie up gov't time?

No, companies should not be required to create DIY manuals for every backyard Joe. Then I, as a consumer, get stuck with the added cost these companies bare due to increased liability claims when backyard Joe screws stuff up. Its not sticking it to the man- CEOs will still make $$$ and the only thing we will have succeeded in doing is increasing our reliance on gov't to make good choices for the unwashed masses.

Don't like Apple repair costs? Your choices are buy something else, or understand that the value of an item is for the time you yourself can keep it running. Companies sell a product, not a lifetime experience.

Seriously, if you can't change your own oil without a free manual, you shouldn't be doing it. I do all the work on all my vehicles and have never thought to myself "man, what a terrible company- they should be responsible for educating me on the mechanical engineering of what I paid for!"
Click to expand...

no but think if you car locked and wouldn't run unless anyone other then the dealer opens the hood. The problem is people are dumb, company A does it and gets away with so next thing you know all cars would have it. look at cell phones how many can you change the battery on today?
 
Mr34727 said:
Why is this necessary for any other reason than to tie up gov't time?

No, companies should not be required to create DIY manuals for every backyard Joe. Then I, as a consumer, get stuck with the added cost these companies bare due to increased liability claims when backyard Joe screws stuff up. Its not sticking it to the man- CEOs will still make $$$ and the only thing we will have succeeded in doing is increasing our reliance on gov't to make good choices for the unwashed masses.

Don't like Apple repair costs? Your choices are buy something else, or understand that the value of an item is for the time you yourself can keep it running. Companies sell a product, not a lifetime experience.

Seriously, if you can't change your own oil without a free manual, you shouldn't be doing it. I do all the work on all my vehicles and have never thought to myself "man, what a terrible company- they should be responsible for educating me on the mechanical engineering of what I paid for!"
Click to expand...

no but think if you car locked and wouldn't run unless anyone other then the dealer opens the hood. The problem is people are dumb, company A does it and gets away with so next thing you know all cars would have it. look at cell phones how many can you change the battery on today?
 
DrBorg said:
So, when you assholes go to a restaurant, do you tip?
Click to expand...

Tipping is an almost exclusively a US product, nowhere else in the world do people that serve you expect you to tip them. Some places actively ban its employees from taking tips, others the employees simply refuse them.
 
modi123 said:
As seen:
2017.04.10
2017.02.15
Click to expand...

Nice try keeping the [H]Witness news team honest.. you almost get a "Todd high five" for your efforts.. but..

scrubs-chest-slap-sunburn-hit-13612100417.gif


giving you a "betrayal five" instead as Zarathustra[H] is correct. I have given the {H] news hounds grief in the past for reposting the same story within a short span of time (examples of a few of my previous bitching here, here & here) so I am with you in spirit. Glad you are on my side in this never ending fight but Zarathustra[H], Kyle, et al. do a great job finding interesting, off beat and informative news items as well as other tech website links, enough that it makes me want to check this site out several times a day. Plus it was fun to rib Steve about his lacking of reading Al's weekend posts!!
 
DukenukemX said:
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
Click to expand...

Oh really? If everyone has a degree, what makes it worth more than a high school diploma?
 
jedijeb13 said:
If people would just stop buying things because they are cool, or in fashion, or are supposed to be the best, and refuse to buy when they start doing things like this then the companies would stop doing it when they lose sales. I think United Airlines got a wake up call this week as far as customer relations are concerned, and John Deere and Apple may be awakening sleeping bears in their respective market segments too.
Click to expand...

Problem is that most people don't research a product before buying it, and instead buy something because it looks cool or everyone else is buying one.

One trend I hate in new cars is the lack of a spare tire. Something like 20-30% of new cars no longer come with a spare tire.
Most the buyers are shocked the first time they get a flat and either can't find the spare, or they call AAA to come change their tire and are told they don't have a spare.
 
Good sign. The fact you can't repair your iPhone unless you send it in to Apple is asinine.
 
ep0x73 said:
Just who is going to pay for all of that? Free college even if you have a IQ of 50? Classrooms are already packed, they can't take on anybody else.

I got a degree from SUNY, I paid for it myself by working.

As for $15, this will kill all simple jobs like fast food and you are going to see kiosks becoming the norm so this will only hurt high school and college students.
Click to expand...

How long ago did you get your degree? Due to the states and federal government previously providing a very large share of a university's budget, back in the late 60's to mid 70's tuition and fees only required about 250 hours of minimum wage labor per year as a national average. Now, my cousin's grad school bill for tuition alone at a public university is over $22,000 a year. Trying paying for that on a minimum wage job even at a $15.00 per hour minimum wage. Quite a few of my relatives still don't grasp how times have changed in comparing tuition to working hours required.
 
Vicinity said:
Oh really? If everyone has a degree, what makes it worth more than a high school diploma?
Click to expand...
That has more to do with how the rest of the education system is run than merely providing free 3rd level education.
 
shspvr said:
You joking right ? you mean to tell me they dbl the minimum wage everything New York is going even more expensive last I heard that apartments there for Rent in New York, NY - From $1200+ a month just for a Studio just more other big city
There not going solve any thing by bump up the minimum wage they only going make problem get even worst then all ready is if ask me
Click to expand...

All the locations that have already implemented $15 minimum wage has already seen some of the effects.

Business charge more to pay the employees. As things cost more, people partake in less. Business get less customers, make less money. Less money, means profit they can cut into to pay employees. Some lose their jobs, some lose their hours, some jobs aren't created, etc. Then you have the other changes. So and so were making $15 before, now it's the minimum wage. They're going to want a pay increase. Business costs will just keep increasing. So..., business simply change locations or shutdown
 
Pricing is a market signaling information. By "fixing" a minimum wage, you distort the market. Distorted markets don't do well. If a current minimum wage is $10, but proponents say a $15 wage is needed, they also say it won't affect the market. Bollocks. Would a $250 minimum wage affect the market? Of course. So, a mandated (dictated?) increase of the minimum WILL affect the market. Someone has to pay. Always.

NY is desperate to stem the flood of skilled labor and wage earners who are leaving. They are leaving because, like every socialist utopia, living there sucks if you're a producer. In an attempt to stop the blood loss, they are amputating another limb. This will not end well. Taxes in NY are onerous...and will only get worse. Someone has to pay. Always.

"Free" college? Impossible. Teachers get paid. Buildings get built with labor and material. Electricity is produced and used. Dormitories are inhabited. Books are used. Free? Someone has to pay. Always.

Pricing as a signal: I refuse to buy any apple product. I see them as overpriced and relying on a halo of advertising. They are, and have been, restrictive. They make reliable products which are integrated into their own sphere. I send them a signal by not purchasing their products.

Similarly, a free market would allow others to produce competitors to the locked John Deere. (Can't dipstick a transmission fluid? I wouldn't buy it.)

The debate should be whether MORE regulation (a "right to repair" bill) is the correct solution, or LESS regulation (opening the market by lowering the bar to new entrants: Kubota, Mohindra (sp?), International Harvester, Ford, etc.). Perhaps it is a simple requirement that allows anyone to produce spare parts and manuals or provide services to repair.

Just some food for thought....


(I am very strongly on the "fix it yourself" side of this.)
 
HorseproofBacon said:
This should apply to GM vehicles too. Ever tried checking the transmission fluid level on a Pontiac g6? Have to crawl under the car (while it's level so you have to lift it), use a socket wrench to unscrew a bolt, then watch the fluid drip at a certain rate during a certain amount of time to verify the level, all while the car is on and the engine is hot (has to be hot or the reading could be off). Wtf ever happened to a dipstick? They did this to make you come into the dealer and pay them $200 to check the levels.

Oh and to change a light bulb you have to remove the ENTIRE FUCKING LIGHT ASSEMBLY to remove and replace a bulb, this requires removing part of the bumper too.

Giant pain in the ass.
Click to expand...

There were ( still are apperently ) cars built a few years ago by many manufacturers were you had to take the whole fender off to change the bulb, Fiat 5oo that was iirc.

They then made a LAW in EU to force every manufacturer to make it possible to change bulbs ON TNE ROAD with no special tools or knowlwedge.

A year later all those cars had suddenly "easy to change bulb" setups.. it needs pressure to get things done.


You can use BOSCH analyzers to read your car, that is no big deal, even for a home user. The big deal is that you have to license it again every year and you pay a monthly fee as well, how much depends on what you want to have unlocked in your analyzer. Anything 150€ or up per month and like 1500€ per year to get started. Force them to publish the database online for everybody is not going to solve the problem alone as you will also need a BOSCH device to read it from the car's plug. Making a law without holes is not that easy if you focus on a no-expense policy for the end user to obtain data. * Got that info from my next door buddy who runs a car shop
 
BitMaster said:
There were ( still are apperently ) cars built a few years ago by many manufacturers were you had to take the whole fender off to change the bulb, Fiat 5oo that was iirc.

They then made a LAW in EU to force every manufacturer to make it possible to change bulbs ON TNE ROAD with no special tools or knowlwedge.

A year later all those cars had suddenly "easy to change bulb" setups.. it needs pressure to get things done.


You can use BOSCH analyzers to read your car, that is no big deal, even for a home user. The big deal is that you have to license it again every year and you pay a monthly fee as well, how much depends on what you want to have unlocked in your analyzer. Anything 150€ or up per month and like 1500€ per year to get started. Force them to publish the database online for everybody is not going to solve the problem alone as you will also need a BOSCH device to read it from the car's plug. Making a law without holes is not that easy if you focus on a no-expense policy for the end user to obtain data. * Got that info from my next door buddy who runs a car shop
Click to expand...
The recommended method of changing the low beam son a 2010 era Subaru Outback is to pull the bumper to access the plug. The internet mechanic recommended method is to pull the wheel well liner after removing a wheel. My 08 Impreza you could change all 4 bulbs from the engine bay. Shit has gotten retarded in a quick fashion. I just found out the other day at the dealer that Subaru has an engine bay color coding system for what is and what isn't user serviceable.
 
ep0x73 said:
Just who is going to pay for all of that? Free college even if you have a IQ of 50? Classrooms are already packed, they can't take on anybody else.

I got a degree from SUNY, I paid for it myself by working.

As for $15, this will kill all simple jobs like fast food and you are going to see kiosks becoming the norm so this will only hurt high school and college students.
Click to expand...

No offense, but it sounds like you haven't been to college in a long time. My dad worked his way through college. Now, even at state schools, good luck trying to do that. College tuition has risen at twice the rate of inflation thanks to many things, most notably state budget cuts.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this...ege-tuition-has-skyrocketed-since-1980-2015-7
 
jedijeb13 said:
I think it was VW that a co-worker bought that when he went to change the oil, he couldn't find the oil filter. Turns out it is behind a door that requires a key you can only get from the dealership, just to open it up to change the filter. He asked the mechanic at the dealership if he could buy a key, they said sure, for $400. Seriously, you have to pay $400 just so you can change your own oil!

If people would just stop buying things because they are cool, or in fashion, or are supposed to be the best, and refuse to buy when they start doing things like this then the companies would stop doing it when they lose sales. I think United Airlines got a wake up call this week as far as customer relations are concerned, and John Deere and Apple may be awakening sleeping bears in their respective market segments too.

But if the trend continues, it might pay to be a little bit of a Luddite.
Click to expand...

In principle I agree, but it doesn't always work. I need a new cell phone. I hate planned obsolescence so I want one that I can replace the battery in without breaking the screen. There's the LG G5 and not a hell of a lot else. Buying the G5 won't convince LG to keep making phones this way since they've already released a G6 that has a sealed in battery. The market can't fix the problem when there all the big players go along with these behaviors.
 
Insula Gilliganis said:
Nice try keeping the [H]Witness news team honest.. you almost get a "Todd high five" for your efforts.. but..

scrubs-chest-slap-sunburn-hit-13612100417.gif


giving you a "betrayal five" instead as Zarathustra[H] is correct. I have given the {H] news hounds grief in the past for reposting the same story within a short span of time (examples of a few of my previous bitching here, here & here) so I am with you in spirit. Glad you are on my side in this never ending fight but Zarathustra[H], Kyle, et al. do a great job finding interesting, off beat and informative news items as well as other tech website links, enough that it makes me want to check this site out several times a day. Plus it was fun to rib Steve about his lacking of reading Al's weekend posts!!
Click to expand...

It would still make a lot of sense to link the original threads in the OP, especially if you're going to reference past threads/discussion.
 
DukenukemX said:
New York is doing a lot of things lately. They passed $15 minimum wage, and recently now give free 4 year college to those making less than $100k a year. It's good to live in NY.
Click to expand...

$15 minimum is great... for older people. Who would hire anyone young and dumb with no experience, when $15 will attract older more experienced workers?

Free college sounds good. Until you realize your parent's property taxes will skyrocket and housing cost surrounding the college will go through the roof.

New York is also mandating that you work in the state a number of years after graduation. If your employer wants to relocate you out of state, NY will send you a tuition bill for the 4 years.
 
MarkVI said:
No offense, but it sounds like you haven't been to college in a long time. My dad worked his way through college. Now, even at state schools, good luck trying to do that. College tuition has risen at twice the rate of inflation thanks to many things, most notably state budget cuts.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this...ege-tuition-has-skyrocketed-since-1980-2015-7
Click to expand...

Primary reason for tuition jumps is [easy] money. Loans/grants are easily available. Once that occurs, it's a race to the top for costs. If a business has a desirable product with high demand and knows many of its customers can obtain a loan or free-money grants from the government, why wouldn't they charge more?

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/08/20/report-federal-aid-rising-tuition/
 
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