10 Reasons Linux Gamers Might Want to Pass On the NVIDIA RTX Series

Stoly said:
Well, he already failed once. Steam PCs were DOA. I gotta give Steam credit for keep trying and keep pushing for linux gaming. Who knows? eventually they might be successfull
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There's moving toward Linux gaming- or just 'not Windows' gaming on the desktop, but with the amount of virtualization/containerization/straight up fast translation/WINE-like 'mapping', the real goal is to be OS-agnostic.
 
Stoly said:
Well, he already failed once. Steam PCs were DOA. I gotta give Steam credit for keep trying and keep pushing for linux gaming. Who knows? eventually they might be successfull
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You guys all realise without the early steamos push you would all be kissing your steam libraries good bye right ? MS is not Valves friend. MS plans for windows gaming in now way support a third party company owning the platform and making all the coin. Where is the advantage for MS shareholders in having steam be at all.
 
ChadD said:
You guys all realise without the early steamos push you would all be kissing your steam libraries good bye right ? MS is not Valves friend. MS plans for windows gaming in now way support a third party company owning the platform and making all the coin. Where is the advantage for MS shareholders in having steam be at all.
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No, not at all.
 
Seeing as the windows guys are out in force today... I know this isn't 100% related to Linux and buy or not buy a 2000 NV card... but here.

Let me clue all you windows boosters what Google and Valve are really up too... and your going to very very much hate it.

1) Google doesn't want to release a $2000 gaming chromebook... they are all over higher end models but specific power sucking GPUs are not really in the cards.
2) Valve does NOT want to be tied to MS in anyway at all... no matter what you think of Gabes theories, its clear he Hates MS and would love to be decoupled from windows fortunes.
3) Google has been working on "Yeti" for more then a few years... and guess what its a game streaming service.
4) No one in the world really uses windows servers... windows streaming game servers would really suck.

So with those things in mind.. if you can't see what Proton and DXVK / VKD3D are all about your blind.

Yes they can build some sort of Linux gaming stream server that virtualizes 1,000s of windows instances and is forced to assign an entire GPU to each instance. Paying MS millions in licencing fees to make it happen.

OR they create away to run games on 100% Linux server hardware... where they can slave 100s or more GPUs in one system and dole resources out as required. At that Point DXVK and the other DX translation hardware serves as a stop gap and a way to serve old titles with or without the developers support. Later titles they simply commision from developers direct for Linux builds. (Valve has put the tools in place... AAA developers don't even HAVE to support Linux to build Google/Valve a Streaming runs on Linux version of any of their games)

So there it is... IMO

Linux gaming is inevitable. Because everyone building a game streaming service needs their games to support *nix. Sony has no worries their game library is designed to run on their BSD build anyway... scaling that to server size isn't some major rewrite. Its my understanding Nvidia has been using a bumped up version of their GRID GPU cluster Virt sharing solution... imo that would have major issues if they where to ever go super scale with it.

Bottom line is everyone looking to launch a real low cost high traffic game streaming service... really needs a 100% *nix solution. That doesn't guarantee 100% great game publisher support for GNU/Linux... but it can't hurt, it will remove the technical arguments against it anyway.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
This is some wishful reimagining...
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I don't believe so, it's obvious that awareness of Linux is growing and Steam statistics are fairly useless at determining overall user numbers. However, my point was that in the beginning Windows was a far worse gaming platform than Linux is now and Gabe turned that all around - Microsoft couldn't have given the slightest crap about the situation at the time and I don't know whether they even care about it now considering Windows is installed on most OEM devices by default.

Stoly said:
Well, he already failed once. Steam PCs were DOA. I gotta give Steam credit for keep trying and keep pushing for linux gaming. Who knows? eventually they might be successfull
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Did he? We don't know how many people built their own Steam boxes and installed SteamOS themselves as SteamOS is not counted towards Linux percentages under Steam, in fact there is no measurement for SteamOS at all under Steam. Personally, I'd say he succeeded considering the number of titles on Steam under Linux is still growing. Obviously developers can see something we can't.
 
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ChadD said:
Linux gaming is inevitable.
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But what you're talking about is game streaming at which point local Windows, macOS or Linux gaming are irrelevant. What also would be irrelevant are parts like the RTX 20x0s, at least for end users.

I've long said that whatever replaces Windows for things like gaming won't be anything like Windows. You're Linux gaming won't be anything but terminal gaming, no local control. Google will love it!!!! GamingTube!
 
heatlesssun said:
But what you're talking about is game streaming at which point local Windows, macOS or Linux gaming are irrelevant. What also would be irrelevant are parts like the RTX 20x0s, at least for end users.

I've long said that whatever replaces Windows for things like gaming won't be anything like Windows. You're Linux gaming won't be anything but terminal gaming, no local control. Google will love it!!!! GamingTube!
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Regardless of platform, I'll only ever stream from a console or PC to another device locally. Any remote streaming platform that starts pushing its BS as true gaming definitely won't be in my house.
 
heatlesssun said:
But what you're talking about is game streaming at which point local Windows, macOS or Linux gaming are irrelevant. What also would be irrelevant are parts like the RTX 20x0s, at least for end users.

I've long said that whatever replaces Windows for things like gaming won't be anything like Windows. You're Linux gaming won't be anything but terminal gaming, no local control. Google will love it!!!! GamingTube!
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Your talking about a 100% streaming future. That isn't the way its going to work. Streaming is going to become more popular... but I expect it will never completely put guys like you out of the hobby. Game developers will always be willing to sell folks like you and me copies of games.... that doesn't mean they aren't going to gladly take their cut of stream sub sales.

The gaming industry has already started using and building out cross platform tools. There are very few game developers using engines and systems hard locked to windows anymore. DX was the last thing really keeping things locked to windows. All the major engine using games (unity/unreal/cry ect) can compile their games for Windows or Linux fairly easily. If a developer has chosen to use Vulkan... and they are using say the unreal engine. All they have to do is change a flag in their compile and spit out a Linux version.

If Google or Valve or some other player launches a stream service and attracts a sizable chunk of users... it becomes more likely even more developers use things like Vulkan. Streaming services are NOT going to be paying MS 10s of millions in licence fees to virtualize 1,000s of windows instances. I mean come on that is just stupid. They are going to as developers for a Linux bin, and Vulkan API ideally. Outside of that they will use tools like DXVK, and things like Wine/Proton.

What that means... is more LINUX native compiled software on Steam. If a developer has already built a 100% Linux offering to sell to the Streaming companies for their servers why not sell those Linux versions on steam directly.

You used to be fond of saying its not a Zero sum game.... and although I don't think you where using the term correctly and neither am I. Its not all or nothing. Its not 100% streaming or None. Streaming will be on offer... and to make it work the big players are going to demand Linux support from AAA developers that want a cut of the pie. That is all good for Linux as a non streaming platform.
 
heatlesssun said:
Bullshit. Steam is perhaps the single biggest reason why people stick with Windows.
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Right cause without steam... everyone would install Linux... and what set Wine up by hand ?

Your arguments don't make much logical sense Heatle. All Valve does in MS view is steal their rightful windows store sales. If Valve died tomorrow MS (likely correctly) would expect to see an instant bump on their own store sales.

If your right and steam is the only thing keeping people on windows... hey my friend. Steam runs on Linux just fine... and within the next year or so 99% of the windows library will run nicely. I look forward to your switch.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
Regardless of platform, I'll only ever stream from a console or PC to another device locally. Any remote streaming platform that starts pushing its BS as true gaming definitely won't be in my house.
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You say that now... until you see how they are likely going to push Streaming on gamers.

Real time Ray tracing is a trap folks. lmao

People are going to see Real Time Ray traced streaming ONLY games that not only use RTR tech... but have it cranked to 11. A quality level even SLI 2080s won't touch.

At that point a lot of people are going to say WTH.... I can sub and still buy games. (cause they can)

Frankly I don't think its a bad thing... developers are going to love it. They have been holding back to support consoles for years. Now they can build their games to run on Server GPU cluster level hardware for all.
 
ChadD said:
Your arguments don't make much logical sense Heatle. All Valve does in MS view is steal their rightful windows store sales. If Valve died tomorrow MS (likely correctly) would expect to see an instant bump on their own store sales.
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This is utter nonsense. There are tons of places that sell Windows software. Why would Microsoft want Steam to go away and have users hanging with things like unsupported VR headsets that are only fully Windows compatible? This isn't a zero sum game and Windows draws enormous benefit from all of the players in the Windows ecosystem, especially Steam and Valve.
 
ChadD said:
If your right and steam is the only thing keeping people on windows... hey my friend. Steam runs on Linux just fine... and within the next year or so 99% of the windows library will run nicely. I look forward to your switch.
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So installing Linux on something like my sig rig to game would be a disaster with all that would break but in the next year 99% of it will run fine, including my Oculus Rift?

LOL! Holly shit you're not even bother to listen to nonsense you making up here.
 
heatlesssun said:
This is utter nonsense. There are tons of places that sell Windows software. Why would Microsoft want Steam to go away and have users hanging with things like unsupported VR headsets that are only fully Windows compatible? This isn't a zero sum game and Windows draws enormous benefit from all of the players in the Windows ecosystem, especially Steam and Valve.
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Ok you keep believing that. MS does not love Valve. That is just the way it is. Valve is a Microsoft competitor... all the 100s of millions of $ valve is making from their platform is theirs. They don't pay MS royalties. All the MS windows gaming branding pushes over the years have been about MS trying to get a cut of profits. I know for some reason you don't believe what you read... but MS has had plans to completely kill w32 for a long time. There plans to wall up windows have mostly been stymied by Valve.
 
heatlesssun said:
So installing Linux on something like my sig rig to game would be a disaster with all that would break but in the next year 99% of it will run fine, including my Oculus Rift?

LOL! Holly shit you're not even bother to listen to nonsense you making up here.
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Yes Rift another product that makes MS NOTHING. I'm sure they really care.
 
heatlesssun said:
So installing Linux on something like my sig rig to game would be a disaster with all that would break but in the next year 99% of it will run fine, including my Oculus Rift?

LOL! Holly shit you're not even bother to listen to nonsense you making up here.
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Oh God, we're going down that Rabbit hole again....
 
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heatlesssun said:
Which is why there is such a rich software ecosystem for Windows today.
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Yep... and that all ends if MS makes their store the gateway. Which is what they have been attempting to do for more then a few years now.
 
heatlesssun said:
Which is why there is such a rich software ecosystem for Windows today.
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There's rich software ecosystems for macOS and Linux, it all depends on the needs of the individual user and the average PC user is a very simple individual.
 
ChadD said:
Yep... and that all ends if MS makes their store the gateway. Which is what they have been attempting to do for more then a few years now.
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Except they really haven't and the Microsoft Store is really just another way to distribute Windows software. For instance MSIX. A universal way to distribute Windows software, Steam, Microsoft Store, even older versions of Windows.

Mazzspeed said:
There's rich software ecosystems for macOS and Linux, it all depends on the needs of the individual user and the average PC user is a very simple individual.
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But when it comes to gaming there's no contest. Thus something like Steam Play.
 
heatlesssun said:
It keeps people on Windows. You're so blinded by whatever that completely ignoring just how important an ecosystem is to an OS.
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Yes the less then 1% of windows users that own a Rift (which costs MS money as again they have a competing product) are really going to dictate to MS. I'm sure they will stop all plans to move forward with their push to the MS store and versions of windows that don't allow w32 execution because a quarter of 1% of their users own a compeditors product. Who is living in a dream world ?
 
heatlesssun said:
It keeps people on Windows. You're so blinded by whatever that completely ignoring just how important an ecosystem is to an OS.
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I'm fairly certain, Rift or not, that people would continue to use Windows. I don't think the existence of Windows is exactly dependent on Rift.

Vulkan and Linux has the potential to benefit gaming as a whole and yet you're always so negative, almost like you feel the need to convince people to stick with Windows? It's so not necessary, there's only about three others that really listen to your biased perspective.
 
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heatlesssun said:
But when it comes to gaming there's no contest. Thus something like Steam Play.
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What?! You aren't making sense.

The point of Steam Play is to nudge developers away from proprietary API's such as D3D and overzealous DRM - A move that benefits everyone.
 
ChadD said:
You say that now... until you see how they are likely going to push Streaming on gamers.

Real time Ray tracing is a trap folks. lmao

People are going to see Real Time Ray traced streaming ONLY games that not only use RTR tech... but have it cranked to 11. A quality level even SLI 2080s won't touch.

At that point a lot of people are going to say WTH.... I can sub and still buy games. (cause they can)

Frankly I don't think its a bad thing... developers are going to love it. They have been holding back to support consoles for years. Now they can build their games to run on Server GPU cluster level hardware for all.
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Doesn't matter how amazing it looks, input lag will always be something I'll be aware of. Local or bust IMHO.
 
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Mazzspeed said:
I'm fairly certain, Rift or not, that people would continue to use Windows. I don't think the existence of Windows is exactly dependent on Rift.

Vulkan and Linux has the potential to benefit gaming as a whole and yet you're always so negative, almost like you feel the need to convince people to stick with Windows? It's so not necessary, there's only about three others that really listen to your biased perspective.
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You're conflating things. Steam Play, totally necessary. If Vulkan makes it easier to develop games that are cross platform great. But a lot of Linux folks like to spread bullshit. Steam is an enormous asset for Windows currently.
 
heatlesssun said:
So installing Linux on something like my sig rig to game would be a disaster with all that would break but in the next year 99% of it will run fine, including my Oculus Rift?

LOL! Holly shit you're not even bother to listen to nonsense you making up here.
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Nah, VR support isn't good in Linux at all - would definitely stick to Windows or the PS4 for that one.
SLI has decent support, though not as great as Windows - http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/177.80/README/chapter-25.html
(on that one, though, again, I put that "fault" on NVIDIA, not Linux itself)

For everything you do, Windows is definitely the way to go, and I think even OS X would hold you back.
While Linux on the desktop is a lot of fun, and using it for HPC is awesome compared to Windows (at least in my experience), it will always have more of a home on specialized servers, embedded devices, and those who want a completely* customizable OS.

*as in, able to basically edit or change nearly every aspect of the OS

None of that is a dis on Windows, and even with WINE support, Linux has a long ways to go.
Video editing, MS Office Suite, majority of AAA gaming, VR support, and out-of-the-box usability are all things Windows does insanely better than Linux at this point in time - not because Windows is a "better" OS or anything, but because it has a vastly larger market share and thus has a vastly larger customer base which pushes support for far more software and hardware, and much sooner than Linux tends to get support.

I also personally like the fact that much of the Debian branch is compiled and optimized for numerous CPU/SoC ISAs (as is NetBSD) and isn't strictly limited to x86-64 and ARM/ARM64 - hardly needed for mainstream users or professional operations, though.
It is cool to see WINE getting more and more support, though, and is especially handy for those who do work almost exclusively out of Linux or BSD operating systems and yet still would like to have Windows functionality, at least to a limited extend - this to me is only a good thing for both *NIX and Microsoft subscribers and user-bases.
 
heatlesssun said:
You're conflating things. Steam Play, totally necessary. If Vulkan makes it easier to develop games that are cross platform great. But a lot of Linux folks like to spread bullshit. Steam is an enormous asset for Windows currently.
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Except Steam is not an enormous asset when people don't choose to buy a product with Windows pre installed.

Anyway, what's Linux gaming under Steam got to do with Windows that makes it so bad? I din't see any Linux users exaggerating anything.
 
Mazzspeed said:
The point of Steam Play is to nudge developers away from proprietary API's such as D3D and overzealous DRM - A move that benefits everyone.
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The immediate and direct point of Steam Play is provide gaming content that is sorely lacking under native Linux by making it easier for end user leverage the vastly superior Windows gaming ecosystem on Linux. Indirectly what you say MIGHT occur as a result but Valve had an immediate problem to address with Linux gaming and that was lack of content that was only getting worse.
 
heatlesssun said:
The immediate and direct point of Steam Play is provide gaming content that is sorely lacking under native Linux by making it easier for end user leverage the vastly superior Windows gaming ecosystem on Linux. Indirectly what you say MIGHT occur as a result but Valve had an immediate problem to address with Linux gaming and that was lack of content that was only getting worse.
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No it's not, not at all. The idea behind Proton and Steam Play is to promote a better API free from Microsoft and to rid the gaming community of problematic over the top DRM solutions. The additional titles available under Linux is just the icing on the cake.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
Doesn't matter how amazing it looks, input lag will always be something I'll be aware of. Local or bust IMHO.
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For the masses playing on less then high end systems... the input lag may not feel much different then what they are used to anyway. So if they are offered games with IQ cranked well beyond anything they are used to seeing. It may well be tempting enough for a lot of people.

I am not expecting Google or Valve to launch a streaming service and instantly grab 90% of the market or something crazy. However if they can pull in 4-5% of the market that is a massive bit of change. More then enough to convince even more big companies to implement their own services.

People are always saying the streaming companies want to be the next Netflix... but I think more important no one wants to be the gaming version of Blockbuster.
 
ChadD said:
Ok you keep believing that. MS does not love Valve. That is just the way it is. Valve is a Microsoft competitor... all the 100s of millions of $ valve is making from their platform is theirs. They don't pay MS royalties. All the MS windows gaming branding pushes over the years have been about MS trying to get a cut of profits. I know for some reason you don't believe what you read... but MS has had plans to completely kill w32 for a long time. There plans to wall up windows have mostly been stymied by Valve.
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Actually, you are right about this.
If this were during the pre-Windows 8/8.1/10 days, I would have wholeheartedly disagreed; miss those gadgets for Windows 7!

But ever since Microsoft released the Windows Store, I hate to admit it but I've only seen this mentality grow with them, but that really is no different than Apple or Google's walled garden's either, and much like most of Microsoft's history, they are simply a bit late to the game on that one.
The difference being that with Apple (iOS) and Google (Android), there really wasn't any pre-existing software environments to build on, so they made their own.

With Microsoft, however, the Windows Store was a bit of a paradigm shift for them, in that now they could potentially own and run their own apps without any 3rd parties - or I should say without any royalty-paying 3rd parties for such exclusive rights to do so.
While it may seem greedy, and really it is (still looking at you, Apple and Google), it wouldn't make any financial sense for Microsoft to abandon or ignore that market and IP strategy, and while it might be harmful in the long run to consumers and 3rd party software developers (due to potential royalty/licensing fees), Microsoft has to stay afloat somehow.

Much like AMD, if Microsoft were to disappear from the market, or be bought out by an actual malevolent corporation (big data is worth its weight in gold), that would be a massively negative paradigm shift that the OS and software markets would not, and potentially could not, take the financial hit from.
Also, if Linux became the majority OS in the world, I guarantee you the amount of exploits being researched, discovered, and exploited (no pun intended) would increase drastically and exponentially, and our Linux servers and desktops don't need to take that kind of hit right now!!! :D
 
Mazzspeed said:
No it's not, not at all. The idea behind Proton and Steam Play is to promote a better API free from Microsoft and to rid the gaming community of problematic over the top DRM solutions. The additional titles available under Linux is just the icing on the cake.
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Right, because what could be a better way to promote freedom from Microsoft than providing runtime binary support for Windows games on Linux without developer having to do anything!

I understand that you and other Linux fans choose to ignore it but the lack of native Linux content is still a serious problem for Linux gaming.
 
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