heatlesssun
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It's function pointers so more like ->*
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10 Reasons Linux Gamers Might Want to Pass On the NVIDIA RTX Series
- Thread starter Megalith
- Start date
It's function pointers so more like ->*
Your entire point... is "why would people want to buy Linux gaming machines... all the exclusives are on windows" implying that windows has exclusive games and there for would sell better.
Its the logical end of your argument.
GoldenTiger
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Linux gaming by anything but open source idealists and castles in the sky dreamers is pathetic still compared to windows. And people prefer windows, that's part of why it dominated to where it is now.
For the record seeing as you don't seem to really understand what wine is...
https://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#Is_Wine_an_emulator.3F_There_seems_to_be_disagreement
Wine is NOT emulation... it is not "translating" anything at all. At least it isn't translating code in any way different from the way windows itself translates the same code into machine language. If wine is emulation... so is windows.
If a java program is running in windows 10 and it requires the Java libraries to be installed... we don't call that emulation. We call it a program that calls the java library. If a windows program is using the .net libraries we don't call that emulation. ect ect ect insert whatever framework you like. Wine adds windows API systems to a *nix system.
If that was 100% true... you would all have microsoft phones in your pockets. Windows enjoys its market share because OEMs are battered wives to scared to defy their reformed huband. Google is the first big player in years that has been able to convince a large number of them that its safe to defy MS and sell something other then windows. Don't worry the divorce is still coming... and you know what the masses will not protest.
At one time, people also preferred smoking, and segregated water fountains.
heatlesssun
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No, from a PC perspective the CONTENT is on Windows. That's why there's that thing called Steam Play now.
GoldenTiger
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LOL.
So if we are talking consoles... you understand what an exclusive is. But if we are talking PCs... then its just content ? I don't follow your logic.
heatlesssun
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You keep talking about emulation where I've never mentioned it. Yes, native Win32 calls get translated into native Linux calls. Otherwise it would be emulation.
Again that isn't correct. It isn't translating "native" windows calls into Linux calls. Wine converts windows API to machine code... just like WINDOWS does.
heatlesssun
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If a person spends $1500 on a PC gaming laptop it should be able to run all modern PC games, just like a PS4 should be able to run PS4 games.
heatlesssun
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That machine code is NATIVE LINUX. Otherwise how would it run under a Linux kernel?
Why should a PS4... not be able to run Xbone games ?
Why should a Xbone not be able to run PS4 games ?
Why should a Macbook not be able to run windows games ? I mean if a person spends almost 2 grand on a Mac book pro shouldn't it be able to play all games everywhere ?
Your point is stupid \0 (as I feel this is all quite pointless)
heatlesssun
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LOL! Exactly the opposite of my point. A PC should be able to run PC games.
GoldenTiger
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Not even the same comparison.
heatlesssun
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It get's easy to blast Windows in a place like this. If you're someone like me that's been building PC gaming rigs for decades and gets the opportunity at least now and then to pack a PC full of the latest and greatest in PC gaming and then try to see how well that works on Linux, it's a night a day thing.
Windows has it's problem but not when it comes to PC gaming, the support for it is SO much better than macOS and Linux it's crazy. But yeah, that's because Linux gaming is at best a niche thing that Linux experts here and there get riled up about and gaming has just never been much in the Apple macOS DNA.
heatlesssun
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It's like he read it in reverse.
Wait are you saying a Mac isn't a PC... I'm not following you alls flawed logics.
heatlesssun
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So PC gaming is Windows gaming. Fair enough.
error: expected expression before 'PC' token
while(PC)
(.text+0x20): undefined reference to `Windows'
In other words... windows runs on a PC, windows is not THE PC. Look what Apple did with all those stupid Justin Long commercials... you all think Windows = PC. lol
heatlesssun
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When a game is advertised as coming to the PC that means one thing and one thing only, coming to Windows. If that weren't the case people would be able to buy PC gaming devices that don't run Windows.
GoldenTiger
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Yep. It's basically synonymous.
Translating is not emulation, no hardware is being emulated in any way at all.
In relation to native Linux titles, I have no doubt that Linux will overtake macOS under Steam due to Linux actually being the better overall platform for gaming.
Not at all, quite often a game is advertised as coming to PC and is released cross platform. PC does not, and never did, equal Windows. PC = 'Personal Computer' and comes from a time where having your own computer that wasn't the size of a fridge was a big thing.
heatlesssun
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I never said that Wine was emulation but yes it translates Win32 into native Linux.
Perhaps, if there are enough Linux gamers out there.
Hopefully we can dump D3D for a superior, open API as well as overzealous DRM and all this pointless discussion will be irrelevant. That's the point of Proton and Steam Play.
Vulkan benefits everyone and in my experience is actually the superior API, especially where multi threaded application is concerned.
Vulkan benefits everyone and in my experience is actually the superior API, especially where multi threaded application is concerned.
heatlesssun
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It's not that often though. The main reason there's Steam Play now is because of just how not often it has been for some time now.
When it comes to gaming PC means nothing but Windows these days.
heatlesssun
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For here and now, Steam Play/Proton is all about mitigating the futility of Linux gaming. Valve wanted to create a Linux based alternative to Windows and failed. Now they are trying to use Windows compatibility tech to help get content on a platform that otherwise would never see it.
Perhaps this leads to something. Perhaps not. We're in for at least another five year wait.
Ok awesome. I get it, the more Vulkan is used, the easier it is to move that content running under Linux.
I dunno, I'm pessimistic. I'd argue Linux gaming has been better than Mac for YEARS now and it hasn't cracked that marketshare. Macs have advertising dollars, that makes an incredible difference. I'd love to be wrong though.
The world will burn first.
heatlesssun
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Only online does this stuff really matter. Again, where the hell does one buy a Linux gaming device and that buyer knows that it isn't close to be PC (i.e. Windows) gaming compatible but will spend $1500 on it anyway?
Linux gaming for now is the thing of Linux experts that build their own systems and ignore all of the serious flaws and issues with Linux gaming.
You need to bear in mind that Gabe was the one that made Windows a viable gaming platform. Before Gabe Windows was hopeless, I specifically remember dropping into DOS to run literally everything, Gabe turned the PC from a fairly serious platform into a gaming platform. There's nothing to state he can't do it again considering Linux.
Mac's do have the advertising dollars, this is true. But they also have fairly weak hardware in relation to gaming that can't be upgraded and you pay a sizeable premium for such hardware. It's almost inevitable that Linux will at some point overtake macOS under Steam and I don't think Apple will care in the slightest.
IdiotInCharge
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This is some wishful reimagining...
GoldenTiger
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ROFL no kidding.
It wasn't that long ago that I swear I saw you type something along the lines of who in their right mind would spend more then a few hundred dollars on a chromebook.
Things change heatle. Linux gaming is moving forward a lot faster then I guess you like. Don't worry MS isn't going anywhere your cheques aren't going to start bouncing.
I'm not claiming and I don't think anyone really is claiming that Linux is going to over take windows as the majority PC gaming platform. However your assertion that anything short of #1 in market share is as good as zip... is frankly dumb. I can't think of a nicer way of putting it.
Sony is the number one console in the world... that doesn't mean Nintendo throws their hands up and says ok lets go back to producing Pachinko machines instead of doing this game thing. By that logic MS should also stop making consoles... no point in being second or third if your the xbone.
Linux is gaining traction and being positioned to easily be the second most popular PC based gaming platform. We all know Google is planning something... we now know that Valve also seems to have a long term plan. MS position is shakier then it has ever been. Are they still #1 of course... no one has suggested otherwise. Will they be #1 next year... very likely. Will they be #1 in 3 years... still very likely. However will they in 3 years have a very serious #2 to deal with. We'll see... I would say that in some form ya Linux gaming is going to start picking up market share in a real way.
The next few years will be interesting no matter what happens. It seems to me a large chunk of the game development industry... and 100% of the game distribution industry (not owned by MS) what MS to have their power over the industry reduced. Perhaps not replaced completely... but dampened. Valve clearly has a lot of reasons to not want MS having a monopoly on game platform options. MS would love very much for everyone to delete their steam account and for Valve to die. That is simply fact. So for the good of PC gaming Windows Mac Linux and otherwise... I hope MS gets its current position greatly reduced. I'm fine with them remaining #1... but a MS at 80% of the PC gaming field instead of 98/99%, is good for every gamer.
MS failed more then once to brand Windows as a gaming platform. Most of their marketing was pretty terrible, and much of their tech has been sort of meh. The industry switched to DX for the $. I would say gaming on windows success was mostly due to the lack of any real second option in terms of solid OEM supported non-ms operating systems. The few that where potential rivals early on got squshed illegally. Even today a company the size of Google has to go above and beyond to get the big name OEMs to ship chromeos machines which have been selling nicely. It has been great to see a crop of higher end chromebooks this year from the big windows OEMs.
Yeah, that 0.59% of linux users on steam surely looks like its growing exponentially.
Nobu
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Digital storm, for one. I imagine if I looked hard enough I could find one or two more, but you'd just say "that's just [number]" or "they primarily sell windows machines". I don't really care at this point, but saying there are none is just bs.
IdiotInCharge
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As discussed, they don't have to 'brand' Windows for gaming- it already is.
They've tried a few initiatives. Can't say I ever understood their purpose, assume they were trying to push some combination of standardization and leadership. Won't argue that they failed of course.
Well, he already failed once. Steam PCs were DOA. I gotta give Steam credit for keep trying and keep pushing for linux gaming. Who knows? eventually they might be successfull