Tim Cook On Apple Avoiding U.S. Taxes: 'Total Political Crap'

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It looks like Tim Cook got a little testy when he was asked about Apple holding $181.1 billion in profits offshore. Honestly, I'd be testy too if I had to pay almost $60 billion just to bring the money back to the United States.

Apple Inc Chief Executive Tim Cook dismissed as "total political crap" the notion that the tech giant was avoiding taxes. Apple saves billions of dollars in taxes through subsidiaries in Ireland, where it declares much of its overseas profit. The company holds $181.1 billion in offshore profits, more than any other U.S. company, and would owe an estimated $59.2 billion in taxes if it tried to bring the money back to the United States, a recent study based on SEC filings showed.
 
I wouldn't have a problem with this... if I could do the same thing and get away with it.

But since I'm a regular every day joe that only makes 40K a year... I can't afford the legal team to pull it off. The fact that our tax code is so complicated not a single person understands it ALL says a lot right there.

Fuck tim cook and his shitty tax evading company.
 
Honestly... Who cares about the CEO in this case...

I would fire any CFO who would be wasting money NOT using a tax shelter.
 
Yakk said:
Honestly... Who cares about the CEO in this case...

I would fire any CFO who would be wasting money NOT using a tax shelter.
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In the same way Apple screws it customers with overpriced hardware they should screw the IRS as well ?
 
Cook won't have any problem getting up there and lecturing the little people about all kinds of other political matters that are sure to cost us little people money, like climate change this and that.

The guy is a total fraud.
 
Yes, it is total political crap that Apple is able to exploit the tax code that was lobbied to have such terrible loopholes and keep the money offshore. Back in 2004 there was a special tax holiday that allowed tax dodgers like Apple, Google, and Microsoft to repatriate money that should have been taxed at the peak corporate rate to instead be taxed at the ultra low rate of only 5.25%. Compare that to U.S. manufacturing companies that actually manufacture stateside who properly pay the full rate.

Liberal blog thinkprogress, citing the NY Time, noted that over 92% of the money went to executive compensation and stock buybacks.

Tech & Pharma vs. Manufacturing have been lobbying for and against a new tax holiday ever since.

This is also one of the big reasons the major tech companies issue corporate bonds despite being so profitable. The initial cash infusion from selling the bonds provides operating capital while the money to pay for bond principal and interest comes from repatriating the money tax free as repayment of a debt.

Easy way to close this loophole would be to presumptively impose a tax on all gains for any shell/ daughter/ sister/ holding/ etc. corporation related to the main U.S. corp.
 
I don't have a problem with Apple paying less in taxes.

I have a huge problem with Tim Cook supporting wacko leftist policies while avoiding his taxes.
 
Yakk said:
Honestly... Who cares about the CEO in this case...

I would fire any CFO who would be wasting money NOT using a tax shelter.
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Because it makes MY taxes, and the taxes of every other U.S. citizen (and not so privileged business) go up. To the extent that everyone elses' taxes haven't been increased due to Apple's, and other scum of its ilk, tax dodging then the government is underfunded which leads to cuts in important services like FDA food inspections, or customs, or prosecuting federal criminals, or providing grants to states to maintain roads, or grants that used to keep down the costs of higher education, or a vast cornucopia of other programs.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
they should screw the IRS as well ?
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If it was illegal then just about every multinational corporation would have an issue.

Or Apple could always move their HQ and keep a token office open in the US.
 
collegeboy69us said:
I wouldn't have a problem with this... if I could do the same thing and get away with it.

But since I'm a regular every day joe that only makes 40K a year... I can't afford the legal team to pull it off. The fact that our tax code is so complicated not a single person understands it ALL says a lot right there.
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It's not the matter of affording a legal team to do it, you physically can not do it because you are an individual. Corporations can get away with this because they're only taxed on profits, and if you make a billion dollars in revenue, then go ahead and buy a billion dollars worth of new business equipment you basically made zero profit so is your tax. Now expand this idea that your corporation is global, all of a sudden all expenditures get paid for in the high tax rate country, and all revenue sources come by way of low tax rate countries, your profits stay in another country, but who cares you're still making more than enough to pay in the US and other places where you sell your wares.
 
Teenyman45 said:
Because it makes MY taxes, and the taxes of every other U.S. citizen (and not so privileged business) go up. To the extent that everyone elses' taxes haven't been increased due to Apple's, and other scum of its ilk, tax dodging then the government is underfunded which leads to cuts in important services like FDA food inspections, or customs, or prosecuting federal criminals, or providing grants to states to maintain roads, or grants that used to keep down the costs of higher education, or a vast cornucopia of other programs.
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Then you should start a petition to make this tax shelter illegal. Corporations would then have no choice to make and won't be skinned alive by Wall Street which ironically is also in the US.

Well... they'd still be skinned alive for lowered profits, but would follow the law.
 
We aren't avoiding taxes, we just aren't bringing our money into the USA as we would have to pay taxes on it then... Makes perfect sense to me, I fully agree they aren't avoiding taxes. Just like if I go into somebody's house and take stuff i am not stealing, I am borrowing without permission for an infinite amount of time an item they own.
 
Yakk said:
Then you should start a petition to make this tax shelter illegal. Corporations would then have no choice to make and won't be skinned alive by Wall Street which ironically is also in the US.

Well... they'd still be skinned alive for lowered profits, but would follow the law.
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I have campaigned for this to end.
 
Want the might of the American Military Industrial Complex and our Intelligence Services to hide behind?

Help pay the fucking bill. :rolleyes:
 
The fact that the money isn't here in the US working for the US is a problem but nobody ever cares about that.

The fact that "tax shelters" exist are a problem but nobody ever cares about that either.

The fact that lawyers actually make money looking for ways to create and exploit tax laws around the world is a problem but nobody ever cares about that either.

The fact that Apple doesn't do what's actually right and bringing the money home instead of doing what's legally technically allowable by keeping it offshore in a tax shelter is a major problem and I for do care about it.

But nobody cares that I care about it so, nothing changes.
 
I hate apple in almost everyway, but people complaining about this seem to be swinging at anything that even kind of looks like a ball. It is not a corporation's duty to pay more taxes than it's legally obliged to... If they DIDN'T keep foreign assets overseas to save on paying tax unnecessarily they would be a poorly run company. Blame the politicians that allowed the loophole, not those benefiting from it.
 
cthulhuiscool said:
I hate apple in almost everyway, but people complaining about this seem to be swinging at anything that even kind of looks like a ball. It is not a corporation's duty to pay more taxes than it's legally obliged to... If they DIDN'T keep foreign assets overseas to save on paying tax unnecessarily they would be a poorly run company. Blame the politicians that allowed the loophole, not those benefiting from it.
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And blame the corporations that bribe, er... "lobby" to get, keep, and/or expand the loophole.
 
collegeboy69us said:
I wouldn't have a problem with this... if I could do the same thing and get away with it.

But since I'm a regular every day joe that only makes 40K a year... I can't afford the legal team to pull it off. The fact that our tax code is so complicated not a single person understands it ALL says a lot right there.

Fuck tim cook and his shitty tax evading company.
Click to expand...

That sums it up nicely and saves me from typing the same. Thanks!!
 
Hypothetically, let's say all corporations are forced to bring all of their money back and pay huge taxes. What would happen with the money? The politicians wouldn't pay down our national debt. They'd use it as an excuse to spend more and put us back where we were/are. They'd tell everyone how they tamed those big evil corporations by bringing the tax money home and then blow it all on something useless.
 
Taxes, no one wants to pay them but most all want the benefits of others' money from the poorest to richest. That's why there's documented pure hatred of them for millennia yet they're still around.
 
Is it legal? Yes.

Does our government abusively waste taxpayer money? Yes.

I don't see a problem with what Apple is doing.
 
collegeboy69us said:
I wouldn't have a problem with this... if I could do the same thing and get away with it.

But since I'm a regular every day joe that only makes 40K a year... I can't afford the legal team to pull it off. The fact that our tax code is so complicated not a single person understands it ALL says a lot right there.

Fuck tim cook and his shitty tax evading company.
Click to expand...

You live overseas, make 40k and pay U.S. taxes on it? You're almost certainly doing something wrong if that's the case.
 
I see nothing wrong with what apple is doing. The money is made overseas and taxed overseas. Why should they pay U.S. taxes on it?

It seems like a lot here don't get that most 1st world countries do not tax corporate income if it's earned outside of the country. This ultimately hurts us, because this is money that could be invested back in the U.S.
 
The Apple Corporation's primary responsibility is to it's stockholders. US lawmakers wrote the tax laws. Apple legally exploits those laws.

Well done Apple....well done.
 
Steve said:
Honestly, I'd be testy too if I had to pay almost $60 billion just to bring the money back to the United States.

[/I]
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I'd be perfectly happy giving back 60 billion if I had 180 billion.
 
Okay, so life's not fair, we get it. So can the government at least lower the tax rate so they'll pay the toll and at least get it back here to then still not matter to any of us plebeians.

Maybe it'd at the least create some new jobs or allow Tim Cook to buy a bigger yacht, something.
 
Cook can call it whatever he wants, but the simple fact is that Apple (among many others) is avoiding the taxes it should be paying by exploiting a loophole in the law. Just because he doesn't like being called out on it doesn't make it any less factual.
 
I don't have a problem with them avoiding it through a loophole those bastards in politics made, but it's bs that regular citizens can't. I was gonna say something else, but that's a what if scenario so pointless.
 
Teenyman45 said:
And blame the corporations that bribe, er... "lobby" to get, keep, and/or expand the loophole.
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Again, unless you are actually accusing them of outright bribes (which is a crime) nothing about that is illegal. Is that a problem that should be solved? Yes. Is it's apples job to fall on a sword and purposefully take a financial hit for the greater good? No.
 
This always brings up the question why does Apple have to bring it back at all? Regardless of taxes, why does the US feel this is their money? Apple is a multinational company with employees all over the world and money made all over the world, their money belongs then to all the countries they operate in across the world. Why does the US get to claim all of it?
 
nilepez said:
You live overseas, make 40k and pay U.S. taxes on it? You're almost certainly doing something wrong if that's the case.
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No - I'm a regular ass US citizen lower middlle class type.

If I tried to pull some sneaky shit on the IRS, they would pound me in the ass. Since I don't have millions to throw at the government as a bribe (aka lobbying), or a whole team of tax lawyers, I pay my taxes like a normal person.

Personally -- all lobbying should be illegal -- the only people politicians should be dealing with are the voters. While you are at it, all financial records of a politician should be public if you hold office, no exceptions.

The fact companies can drop millions of dollars worth of benefits, toys, and fun into politicians laps and then magically get what they want law wise? It's bribery plain and simple, just wearing a fancy coat.
 
nilepez said:
I see nothing wrong with what apple is doing. The money is made overseas and taxed overseas. Why should they pay U.S. taxes on it?

It seems like a lot here don't get that most 1st world countries do not tax corporate income if it's earned outside of the country. This ultimately hurts us, because this is money that could be invested back in the U.S.
Click to expand...
You're naive if you think that's how it works. They make the money here, but due to a million creative loopholes it ends up being listed as being made in Ireland, Bermuda, Netherlands or some other region with little to no tax.

collegeboy69us said:
No - I'm a regular ass US citizen lower middlle class type.
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Not if you're earning 40k. The average individual income is about 26k, 40k puts you ahead of 2/3 of all Americans. You're not upper middle class, but you're definitely not lower.
 
tetris42 said:
You're naive if you think that's how it works. They make the money here, but due to a million creative loopholes it ends up being listed as being made in Ireland, Bermuda, Netherlands or some other region with little to no tax.
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Do they make ALL of that money here? Im 100% certain they dont. China is now Apple's biggest market, not to mention all the other Asian countries. The US probably ends up being less than 40% of overall revenue for Apple lately if even that. Probably much cheaper to sell iPhones in China vs the US, I'm guessing all the retail stores in China etc. cost less to operate than US ones and the support, warranty & repairs and so on, not to mention transportation costs because it will be shipped from some foxconn factory to some Chinese person no more than a few hundred miles away.
 
You guys are both kind of wrong. It's very dependent on where you live. In certain places, 26k is like 40k in another area.
 
heatlesssun said:
Taxes, no one wants to pay them but most all want the benefits of others' money from the poorest to richest. That's why there's documented pure hatred of them for millennia yet they're still around.
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It IS the middle to poor class tax payers who are paying for the immigrants/refugees & our politicians are allowing them to illegally enter the States. We are paying for their free-housing, free-food_stamps, free-medical, free-heating_assistance, free-schooling, free-Internet_services, free-cell_phone_services, etc & this 'Free' lists goes on and on. So, when an arrogant person defends the likes of Apple's CEO & other Corporations not paying taxes, the very wealthy people who are in favor by endorsing (huge donations towards) political candidate(s), who are allowing all these free loaders to enter the States... You have to ask yourself: Why are ALL the state Governors giving 10 year tax breaks to the likes of these Corporations (Non-Tax Payers) and then allowing the municipal politicians to raise taxes on property owners i.e. home owners?! F-R-E-E M-O-N-E-Y from the middle class all the way down to the 16,000 per year wage earner. It really is the biggest pyramid scheme ever.

Listed are the current companies that pay NO Federal Taxes... none. All at tax payer's expense! Several companies manufacture equipment for our military. However, they DO NOT support the American Military or US government in taxes...

http://www.itep.org/itep_reports/20...id=CKy7lubU3sACFYhefgodqz4ANg#.VBR3hq1VLVMral
 
pothb said:
You guys are both kind of wrong. It's very dependent on where you live. In certain places, 26k is like 40k in another area.
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As a single person, you have to earn 21 dollars per hour to live in wealthy/poor Connecticut. The CT state politicians know this fact & promote (marriage to) singles to find someone else to share living expenses with while living in Connecticut. Why?! Because most jobs in this state only pay minimum wages... but with a combined income, you create the 21 dollar figure needed to live in this state. But wait... politicians want couples with combined incomes to pay more taxes... it's called the marriage penalty tax which they never talk about because it's more free money for them to give to the illegal immigrants/refugees. (free-housing, free-food_stamps, free-medical, free-college, free-heating_assistances, free-Internet_services, free-cell_phone_services, etc. all at tax payers expense and Corporations pay no taxes or near zero taxes to help the immigrants/refugees. Nope... not even Bill Gates would give ALL his riches, but he would be in total favor of them and the politicians who allow them to illegally enter the States.

If people would protest to their legislatures the following (we would be much better off today than we were 7 years ago) tax rates should be zero taxes for a single wage earner of 35,000 or less and couple 70,000 or less. But wait... to those of you single wage earners who earn 70,000 the 35,000 would be applied to you as well, meaning your tax rate would be 45,000. This isn't a TAX deduction, it is were the tax base should start and it would create a more humane life for legally born US citizens. Again... review the corporations, who endorse (by paying political contributions) to political candidates, who allow illegal immigrants/refugees into the States at tax payers expense!

http://www.itep.org/itep_reports/20...id=CKy7lubU3sACFYhefgodqz4ANg#.VBR3hq1VLVMral
 
pothb said:
You guys are both kind of wrong. It's very dependent on where you live. In certain places, 26k is like 40k in another area.
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This is true, however, at 40k, you're still earning more than 2/3 of the rest of America.
 
nilepez said:
I see nothing wrong with what apple is doing. The money is made overseas and taxed overseas. Why should they pay U.S. taxes on it?

It seems like a lot here don't get that most 1st world countries do not tax corporate income if it's earned outside of the country. This ultimately hurts us, because this is money that could be invested back in the U.S.
Click to expand...

You mean "stolen by a group of politicians to fund their political pork projects" right?

Apple is under exactly ZERO onus to pay taxes at the maximum available rate.

I find that, when talking about other people's money, it's MUCH easier to talk about it being "OUR" money. But when talking about one's own money, it's always "MY money".
 
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