States Pass Laws Backing Uber's View Of Drivers As Contractors

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It looks like good news for Uber for a change. Sure, the company is still facing a class-action lawsuit in California but at least there won't be lawsuits in these states.

State legislators in Ohio and Florida are moving ahead with regulations governing Uber and other ride services that would designate all drivers as independent contractors, bolstering a critical but much-disputed aspect of Uber's business model. The states would join North Carolina, Arkansas, and Indiana in requiring the contractor designation as part of new laws governing so-called transportation network companies, a Reuters review of state legislation showed.
 
IANAL but this may not matter if the feds classify them as independent contractors...
 
At least in those states, potential Uber drivers will now know what the rules are and can decide if they want to participate. Don't like being an independent contractor, don't sign up as a driver. This may actually limit Uber's control in those states. An independent contractor in their own car may be able to avoid some of Uber's dictates, like no guns.
 
Although I don't agree with the Uber model I think they got the shaft on the contractor thing ... ultimately isn't an Uber Driver the same as an Ebay seller (and they are not Ebay employees) ... I approve of states making the law clearer
 
Mr45 said:
Maybe the Teamsters will step up and offer to organize the drivers..
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That would be a disaster. The entire business model of Uber is to not have employees. Allowing them to unionize makes them employees and what do you get???? Just another shitty cab company.

The unions, etc are not for protecting people, they are for protecting the influx of cash into their coffers so that they can support democrats and pro union candidates.

The cab companies are scared to death of UBER, just like the media industry is scared to death of streaming.
They are trying desperately to hold on to a dying business model.
 
Dead Parrot said:
Don't like being an independent contractor, don't sign up as a driver. This may actually limit Uber's control in those states. An independent contractor in their own car may be able to avoid some of Uber's dictates, like no guns.
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LOL no. The whole point of hiring "independent contractors" these days is the labor rules are different for them vs regular employees and give those workers less options while also allowing the company to pay them less and fire them for no reason.

Nobody goes to work for Uber or some other similar low paying employer under those conditions because they have options. They do it when they have pretty much no other choice and Uber knows it as do all the other employers which is why there is such a push for hiring "independent contractors" now.

Ultimately it won't matter what the states that push this angle do since the NLRB, a federal organization, can over rule them on this matter as it has done recently in part with McDonald's.
 
Jarod888 said:
The unions, etc are not for protecting people, they are for protecting the influx of cash into their coffers so that they can support democrats and pro union candidates.
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The unions aren't flawless but they're the only organizations these days who are trying to improve worker's rights, wages, and working conditions. That they do it in part by lobbying for politicians who'll at least nominally support policies and law that'll help worker's isn't some shady or disreputable thing and is just them doing their job. Just as big business has its lobbyists, trade groups, and politicians who push their views too.

In of itself the idea that various groups, unions or businesses, can influence govt. isn't a bad one so long as its done in a ethical and above board fashion. Any govt. that aims to represent its people will allow that to some degree. Its the policies that get pushed or the way they're implemented that cause the problems.
 
mesyn191 said:
LOL no. The whole point of hiring "independent contractors" these days is the labor rules are different for them vs regular employees and give those workers less options while also allowing the company to pay them less and fire them for no reason.

Nobody goes to work for Uber or some other similar low paying employer under those conditions because they have options. They do it when they have pretty much no other choice and Uber knows it as do all the other employers which is why there is such a push for hiring "independent contractors" now.

Ultimately it won't matter what the states that push this angle do since the NLRB, a federal organization, can over rule them on this matter as it has done recently in part with McDonald's.
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Wrong. Being an independent contractor means you are paid by the job, and you have all the flexibility that goes with that, such as deciding what work would you want to do, and what hours you want to work.

If you are taking a low paying 8-5 job, and they classify you as a "independent contractor" then you being miss classified. I know the definition varies by state, but out here in California they are very strict. Governor Brown decided to turn this into a revenue stream for the state, so they send out teams to check companies to make sure they are in complete compliance, and if not, they level huge fines.

My company has had to start requiring every hourly employee to clock in and clock out to make sure they have a record of every minute worked. Before they just filled out a time card that was due at the end of the pay period, but that wasn't considered good enough. They had to also ban hourly employees from eating lunch at their desk, since they might "accidently" do some work, resulting in a heavy fine.

Of course the employees hate this (some liked to surf the web while at lunch, and now they can't do that), and if they are a couple minutes late, it shows up on the time card.

As for the NLRB's ruling on McDonald's, I predict it will be over turned, either by congress or the courts. The ruling is nothing more than a Union lovers fantasy, and goes against every previous ruling on the subject. If allowed to stand, it will wipe out most franchise businesses, leaving only company owned businesses.
 
If Uber were a true free market, then existing taxi companies should be able to list their services on there much like Ebay or Airbnb allows competing marketplaces to list.

Instead, Uber dictates the level of service, controls who receives the most business as well as how much to charge. Uber shares more similarities to McDonalds than either of the two aforementioned companies.
 
FndTheRver said:
WEAK SAUCE

Before we know it, every employee is going to be an "independent contractor"
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An Uber driver is not an employee.

An Uber driver is a person who A) Has a car, B) Wants to give people rides for money and C) Uses an App on his phone to facilitate B.

How hard is this to comprehend? :rolleyes:
 
leeleatherwood said:
An Uber driver is not an employee.

An Uber driver is a person who A) Has a car, B) Wants to give people rides for money and C) Uses an App on his phone to facilitate B.

How hard is this to comprehend? :rolleyes:
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Thanks to a vague rating system , Uber has full control over their drivers. This is not by mistake either. Drivers are way closer to W2 than employees with the level of control Uber exerts over it's drivers.

Have you driven for or read about the experiences these drivers have? They have no say in the execution of work outside of weather or not they choose to perform the work. Autonomy is the big driving force of a contractor. Uber drivers have no autonomy.
 
nutzo said:
Being an independent contractor means you are paid by the job, and you have all the flexibility that goes with that, such as deciding what work would you want to do, and what hours you want to work.....If you are taking a low paying 8-5 job, and they classify you as a "independent contractor" then you being miss classified.
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If you're paid at a low rate, which Uber drivers and many other "independent contractors" are, then you don't actually have any flexibility: you have to work as much as humanly possible to pay your bills and if you don't they fire you because you weren't available when they wanted you to be. Happens all the time and Uber in particular is notorious for firing people for it.

The flexibility is an illusion.
nutzo said:
My company has had to start requiring every hourly employee to clock in and clock out to make sure they have a record of every minute worked.....They had to also ban hourly employees from eating lunch at their desk, since they might "accidently" do some work, resulting in a heavy fine.....Of course the employees hate this
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This is normal and has been for decades in most places FYI with auto stamped clock in time cards which have been around since at least the 50's. There is nothing new about this and if your work place is only now doing this then they're fffffaaarrrrr behind the times. Its also normal for employers to try and pressure their employees to do extra work while unpaid so its a good thing that your employer is being penalized. They've probably been taking advantage of their workers which is never a good thing.

If the employees hate it, and I really doubt they do since your post reeks of stdh.txt, they probably hate anything new by default which is actually normal in a work place. They'll get used it and stop caring eventually. No one actually cares about clocking in a few minutes late FYI since most no one is ever on time exactly. What they care about is if you do your work in time and don't cause a fuss. Using work PC's for internet is indeed nice but is minor stuff to get worked up about with smartphones n' such these days.
nutzo said:
As for the NLRB's ruling on McDonald's, I predict it will be over turned, either by congress or the courts. The ruling is nothing more than a Union lovers fantasy....If allowed to stand, it will wipe out most franchise businesses, leaving only company owned businesses.
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You predict it huh? Based on what? The NLRB already blocked attempts to over turn their decision in the courts back in August. Congess is locked up solid by the Repubs who keep doubling down on stupider stuff every day like Obamacare repeals and even if the HoR and Senate actually agreed on a bill to change the situation the President would veto it and they don't have a veto-proof majority.

Reality passed your "prediction" (unless by prediction you mean half assed knee jerk contrarianism) by months ago and you didn't even know it so don't try and post as if you have any understanding of what the NLRB's ruling was about much less its effect on franchises.
 
mesyn191 said:
You predict it huh? Based on what? The NLRB already blocked attempts to over turn their decision in the courts back in August. Congess is locked up solid by the Repubs who keep doubling down on stupider stuff every day like Obamacare repeals and even if the HoR and Senate actually agreed on a bill to change the situation the President would veto it and they don't have a veto-proof majority.

Reality passed your "prediction" (unless by prediction you mean half assed knee jerk contrarianism) by months ago and you didn't even know it so don't try and post as if you have any understanding of what the NLRB's ruling was about much less its effect on franchises.
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I actually hope that the NLRB ruling stands since it will be the death of franchising and the death of the worst food options the USA has to offer as the franchise restaurants go out of business ... the other advantage is that it will free up these low skill workers to be trained for more useful non-service jobs that are more useful to the GDP ... the service economy should be primarily focused on teen workers with the adults taking real jobs
 
I certainly hope franchises don't go away, I got to have my weekly Wendies triple with cheese and mustard only, large fries and a Dr Pepper with no ice fix. Fast food franchises are nice and convenient. Low skill workers need to start somewhere.
 
kbrickley said:
it will be the death of franchising and the death of the worst food options the USA has to offer as the franchise restaurants go out of business ...
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Jarod888 said:
I certainly hope franchises don't go away
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Its been standing for nearly a quarter of a year and it hasn't been the death of franchises yet. This is because all talk of it doing that is straight up lies by the industry being parroted by people who know nothing about the subject.

Their ruling only comes into play for franchises that are on paper independent but in reality essentially controlled by a corporate entity that sells the franchises. Even then its only there to allow workers to sue the corporate entity for violations instead of just the "independent" franchise owner.
kbrickley said:
the other advantage is that it will free up these low skill workers to be trained for more useful non-service jobs that are more useful to the GDP ... the service economy should be primarily focused on teen workers with the adults taking real jobs
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This is straight up BS that no longer applies in today's economy. It is no longer the 1980's much less the 60's when that view sorta made sense and was actually a bit viable economically speaking. Virtually the only jobs being created right now are low paying low skill jobs which is why older people are working them now. No one actually wants to work them when they're 25+. They do it because they have to.
 
Without a W2 form, I'm still confused how people could possibly assume they were employees in the first place.
 
bomni said:
Without a W2 form, I'm still confused how people could possibly assume they were employees in the first place.
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Employees fill out a W4 to receive a W2 at the end of the year.

kbrickley said:
I actually hope that the NLRB ruling stands since it will be the death of franchising and the death of the worst food options the USA has to offer as the franchise restaurants go out of business ... the other advantage is that it will free up these low skill workers to be trained for more useful non-service jobs that are more useful to the GDP ... the service economy should be primarily focused on teen workers with the adults taking real jobs
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Service jobs are a-ok. It is a great avenue for more extroverted people to work in. Not everybody wants to be a programmer or mechanic.
 
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