FAA Task Force To Recommend Drone Registry

So are remote controll airplanes and helicopters gonna have to be registered also becuase a quad copter that most people are talking about isnt a drone unless its able to programmed to do it by itself. And they can all be set up to do that
 
I suspect you'll see a recommendation that covers a whole lot of them to be honest. Of course, folks who fly model airplanes aren't dicks about it, for the most part, because they take a lot more skill to fly than a quad copter. Where quad copters are basically idiot proof in terms of flying them around that means idiots will buy them and do idiotic things with them. The large number of idiots we've seen flying around airports and generally being a nuisance will ruin it for everyone.
 
Registration is only good if an offending drone is captured, which seems to be rare in most cases of drones being where they aren't welcome. Better would be requiring all drones to have a small transponder that would return GPS info that most drones have anyway plus a serial number. This would let ATC alert aircraft when the idiot drone operator flies one into controlled airspace. The serial number could be used to contact the registered owner and apply corrective action.
 
Dead Parrot said:
Registration is only good if an offending drone is captured, which seems to be rare in most cases of drones being where they aren't welcome. Better would be requiring all drones to have a small transponder that would return GPS info that most drones have anyway plus a serial number. This would let ATC alert aircraft when the idiot drone operator flies one into controlled airspace. The serial number could be used to contact the registered owner and apply corrective action.
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Based on what I've read so far, the registration will simply require a sticker with your registration number be affixed to the multi-rotor. The idiots flying these things where they don't belong will simply either not register, or if they do, they will not affix a registration number to it. So, even if it is captured, there's no way to find out who owns it.

This whole process is a knee-jerk reaction based on fear and lack of education/understanding on the subject matter.
 
It's not the terrorizing of your neighbor that is the real problem.

It's the hapless idiots flying these things into commercial airspace and over no fly zones (capitol/white house/nuclear power plants, etc.) that likely are the real motivations behind this.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041988580 said:
It's not the terrorizing of your neighbor that is the real problem.

It's the hapless idiots flying these things into commercial airspace and over no fly zones (capitol/white house/nuclear power plants, etc.) that likely are the real motivations behind this.
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While I completely agree with mandatory registration for quadrotors, I think that like the problem is that if they get sucked into an airliner's engine there won't be a sticker for someone to find the owner and hold them responsible for putting people in danger. It's prolly a better idea to register them at purchase with like a unique device number that links it to the person who buys it and maybe require a background check and safety training before people are licensed to make a purchase, but that doesn't fix the problem of private resale later so its kinda a complicated problem.
 
nothing really changes for AMA members other then what number we put on our aircraft....

AMA has required your name address phone number and AMA member number on all your aircraft your years
 
Toepunch said:
So are remote controll airplanes and helicopters gonna have to be registered also becuase a quad copter that most people are talking about isnt a drone unless its able to programmed to do it by itself. And they can all be set up to do that
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yes any thing over 250g so every thing but super micros


i fly fixed wing and helis all already have my AMA number on them pretty easy to change to the FAA number or add it
 
I want law clarifications, but a RC aircraft registry is ridiculous! Most of these so called "drones" are nothing more than remote controlled aircraft, no different from parkfliers and helicopers and what not that we have had for ages, and we've never had to register them.

These are not the drones you are looking for. *waves hand*

Seriously, we need concrete laws on where and when you can fly, but NOT a registry! Not all "drones" even have cameras on them, and many regular winged RC planes do have cameras.
 
Toepunch said:
So are remote controll airplanes and helicopters gonna have to be registered also becuase a quad copter that most people are talking about isnt a drone unless its able to programmed to do it by itself. And they can all be set up to do that
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You should probably catch up some. You need to let go of that drone definition you have that focuses on autonomous and manned control, the FAA makes no such discrimination. To the FAA they are all UAS, Unmanned Aerial Systems which include both remote and autonomous controlled vehicles.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/#qn1

What is an unmanned aircraft system (UAS)?

A UAS is the unmanned aircraft (UA) and all of the associated support equipment, control station, data links, telemetry, communications and navigation equipment, etc., necessary to operate the unmanned aircraft.

The UA is the flying portion of the system, flown by a pilot via a ground control system, or autonomously through use of an on-board computer, communication links and any additional equipment that is necessary for the UA to operate safely. The FAA issues an experimental airworthiness certificate for the entire system, not just the flying portion of the system.
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Xyrax said:
Based on what I've read so far, the registration will simply require a sticker with your registration number be affixed to the multi-rotor. The idiots flying these things where they don't belong will simply either not register, or if they do, they will not affix a registration number to it. So, even if it is captured, there's no way to find out who owns it.

This whole process is a knee-jerk reaction based on fear and lack of education/understanding on the subject matter.
Click to expand...

And as with many enforcement matters, it will not prevent much. But in the case of an accident, it still might help punish.

Besides, as far as law makers are concerned it's the step that counts. The step that helps legitimize their authority to regulate. For now it's a sticker, later it's an RFD or even full featured Transponder System that will reply to queries and report the owner. And if one is flying without the required registration, there is always that jamming gun lol.
 
lcpiper said:
And as with many enforcement matters, it will not prevent much. But in the case of an accident, it still might help punish.

Besides, as far as law makers are concerned it's the step that counts. The step that helps legitimize their authority to regulate. For now it's a sticker, later it's an RFD or even full featured Transponder System that will reply to queries and report the owner. And if one is flying without the required registration, there is always that jamming gun lol.
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This is pretty much the same idea of registering guns. It seems good on paper, adds a step and a cost to legitimate owners, but the nuisance fliers will skip this step and continue to bother people.

Maybe we need to stop changing everything for a few. It is like time policy changes at work because people are like 2 minutes late but that one guy that shows up over 2hrs late regularly, makes it so anyone that is 2 minutes late is written up.

I could see something being done for pre-made fliers having a requirement, the rest of us build from parts. So far everything I have seen for nuisance fliers is premade ones mostly from DJI. I feel like someone that spends time learning and building isn't about to just go look in your window (we have cool sunsets to photo instead or acrobatic flights) as opposed to someone that bought it, opened the box and it flies.

I don't know the answer, I do feel that I hear often "we need less government in our daily lives" then I see people wanting additional laws governing more actions. Just remember, it can become a slippery slope and it is easy for us to want change when it doesn't affect our lives directly. (ie non smokers wanting laws for smokers, different religions wanting laws for other religions, gun haters making laws for gun owners etc.
 
Xyrax said:
Based on what I've read so far, the registration will simply require a sticker with your registration number be affixed to the multi-rotor. The idiots flying these things where they don't belong will simply either not register, or if they do, they will not affix a registration number to it. So, even if it is captured, there's no way to find out who owns it.

This whole process is a knee-jerk reaction based on fear and lack of education/understanding on the subject matter.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised. And the penalties for violating FCC rules are very painful.
 
Xyrax said:
Based on what I've read so far, the registration will simply require a sticker with your registration number be affixed to the multi-rotor. The idiots flying these things where they don't belong will simply either not register, or if they do, they will not affix a registration number to it. So, even if it is captured, there's no way to find out who owns it.

This whole process is a knee-jerk reaction based on fear and lack of education/understanding on the subject matter.
Click to expand...

Also it is the pilots that will have to register and they will have to register the serial numbers of all drones they own.
 
The government is gonna do what the government is gonna do. I've got R/C airplanes, helicopters, even a couple tiny quad rotors. None of them are going to be registered with the government. Enforcement will fall on the same shoulders that can't keep drugs and gangs off our streets, stop illegal immigration, human trafficking etc...come and get me.
 
Darunion said:
This is pretty much the same idea of registering guns. It seems good on paper, adds a step and a cost to legitimate owners, but the nuisance fliers will skip this step and continue to bother people.

Maybe we need to stop changing everything for a few. It is like time policy changes at work because people are like 2 minutes late but that one guy that shows up over 2hrs late regularly, makes it so anyone that is 2 minutes late is written up.

I could see something being done for pre-made fliers having a requirement, the rest of us build from parts. So far everything I have seen for nuisance fliers is premade ones mostly from DJI. I feel like someone that spends time learning and building isn't about to just go look in your window (we have cool sunsets to photo instead or acrobatic flights) as opposed to someone that bought it, opened the box and it flies.

I don't know the answer, I do feel that I hear often "we need less government in our daily lives" then I see people wanting additional laws governing more actions. Just remember, it can become a slippery slope and it is easy for us to want change when it doesn't affect our lives directly. (ie non smokers wanting laws for smokers, different religions wanting laws for other religions, gun haters making laws for gun owners etc.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to prevent anything, and it doesn't have to even be effective. The only thing it has to do is generate revenue.
 
damicatz said:
Also it is the pilots that will have to register and they will have to register the serial numbers of all drones they own.
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Actually the current recommendation from this task-force was for the pilot to be registered and not the individual drone. The pilot would receive their own unique ID number that would need to be affixed to each drone they own that exceeds 250 grams in weight.

Again, simply not affixing a registration number to the drone would in essence make it virtually untraceable. A useless regulation that burdens those of us who are already responsible operators and does absolutely nothing to curb the irresponsible idiots.
 
timberwolf said:
The government is gonna do what the government is gonna do. I've got R/C airplanes, helicopters, even a couple tiny quad rotors. None of them are going to be registered with the government. Enforcement will fall on the same shoulders that can't keep drugs and gangs off our streets, stop illegal immigration, human trafficking etc...come and get me.
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You guys act like it will be hard to catch you. Dude, your broadcasting a signal, all they have to get around to is deciding they want to find you.

You wait, if they are really thinking smart they will use their own Drones to police the rest of the drones.
 
lcpiper said:
It doesn't have to prevent anything, and it doesn't have to even be effective. The only thing it has to do is generate revenue.
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For now, it's supposed to be free. But as we all know, eventually there will be a fee associated with it regardless of what they tell us. It may even have a fee right off the bat due to that way some FAA laws are written where they actually require a $5 fee for registering aircraft.
 
lcpiper said:
You guys act like it will be hard to catch you. Dude, your broadcasting a signal, all they have to get around to is deciding they want to find you.

You wait, if they are really thinking smart they will use their own Drones to police the rest of the drones.
Click to expand...

Triangulating the transmitting signal really is the only way they'll be able to catch the real problem pilots. But that take time and special equipment. In most cases the idiot will have landed (or crashed) long before the equipment is deployed.
 
Maybe they want to build a database of drone pilots so they can murder more people in Obama's drone campaign. :D
 
Elios said:
nothing really changes for AMA members other then what number we put on our aircraft....

AMA has required your name address phone number and AMA member number on all your aircraft your years
Click to expand...

Imo, AMA membership is worth it for the member insurance.
 
On a side note,
Ex-Drone Operator Says Program Is 'Good At Killing People, Just Not The Right Ones'

Former drone operators and technicians are slamming how the program is being run by the Obama administration.

Dana Liebelson
Staff Reporter, The Huffington Post
Posted: 11/19/2015

WASHINGTON -- Former U.S. drone operators and technicians spoke out on Thursday about the extensive problems with the Obama administration's lethal program in the Middle East, shedding light on civilian deaths, the callousness of the culture, and the heavy weight of responsibility.



The ex-drone program participants outlined their experiences at an event held in New York that was organized to promote the new documentary Drone.

Michael Haas, who is a former senior airman with the U.S. air force and helped guide missiles to their targets, according to the Guardian, discussed his experience serving under the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, which included working as an instructor. He said over time the quality of personnel rapidly declined, and the mentality under the Obama administration shifted to where, "a meritorious thing to do was to fire a shot, circumstances be damned."



He recalled training a new student who said he would act simply because people looked "up to no good," so he ended the training flight, pulled him out of the seat, and failed him on his ride. "This isn't a video game ... people stay dead," Haas said. But, he said, his superiors reprimanded him for holding the student back.



Haas detailed the callous terms people in the program used to describe children, such as "fun-size terrorists" and "tits (terrorists in training)," and said that one motto was that you have to "cut the grass before it grows too tall." The attitude, he said, was "anything you could do to remove their humanity." He knew heavy drinking among operators was the norm, and he eventually started using bath salts, and developed a cocaine addiction after he got out of the Air Force.



The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a U.K.-based nonprofit, estimates that five years of the drone program under Obama has resulted in over 2,400 deaths. The Obama administration contends that the drone program has strong oversight and only targets people who pose a "continuing and imminent threat" to Americans. But documents released by the Intercept last month paint a radically different picture. In one campaign in Afghanistan, U.S. special operations airstrikes between January 2012 and February 2013 targeting 35 people killed more than 200, the news outlet reported.



When asked to respond to defenders of the drone program, Haas acknowledged that, "drones are very good at killing people." But he added, "That's where the controversy comes in, they're good at killing people, just not the right ones."



Cian Westmoreland, who worked as a technician setting up communications infrastructure for the drone program in Afghanistan, according to the Guardian, said he once received a report noting he had assisted in over 200 enemy kills. "That's BS. Those enemies aren't always enemies," he said. Westmoreland said since coming home, he has had nightmares about being responsible for killing children, spent time in a psychiatric ward and was temporarily homeless. The piece of paper with the number of kills "weighed on me very heavily," he said.



Brandon Bryant, a former Air Force drone operator who said he took five shots that killed 13 individuals, 10 of them non-confirmed combatants, also spoke at the event. He made the case that the program helps extremist groups like the Islamic State group, which claimed responsibility for last week's Paris terrorist attacks that left 129 people dead. Recruiters exploit fear, Bryant said, and "we're enabling that exploitation."



"You kill 4 and create 10," he added, "is that really what you're trying to achieve?"
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War as a video game, an express line to losing your soul as a human being.

Thank god Obama has a Nobel peace prize, or we might start killing innocent civilians. /End Sarcasm
 
Xyrax said:
Triangulating the transmitting signal really is the only way they'll be able to catch the real problem pilots. But that take time and special equipment. In most cases the idiot will have landed (or crashed) long before the equipment is deployed.
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Exactly! I get about 10-15minute flight times, run about 2 batteries then I'm done. I would be gone before anyone even got to my area and that is assuming someone calls the second I take flight.

and yes, sometimes I get 30seconds on a battery if something goes wrong and it ends up in a pond which happened once.
 
Xyrax said:
Triangulating the transmitting signal really is the only way they'll be able to catch the real problem pilots. But that take time and special equipment. In most cases the idiot will have landed (or crashed) long before the equipment is deployed.
Click to expand...

Things have advanced alot over the years. In the old days you needed multiple intercept locations to do direction finding. Today a single intercept system can do the job. It's also easier to find the operator then the aircraft and it's easy to identify which is which, one is usually moving and the other not so much.
 
lcpiper said:
Things have advanced alot over the years. In the old days you needed multiple intercept locations to do direction finding. Today a single intercept system can do the job. It's also easier to find the operator then the aircraft and it's easy to identify which is which, one is usually moving and the other not so much.
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Sure but it still takes time to get that equipment to the area, and find the operator.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
While I completely agree with mandatory registration for quadrotors, I think that like the problem is that if they get sucked into an airliner's engine there won't be a sticker for someone to find the owner and hold them responsible for putting people in danger. It's prolly a better idea to register them at purchase with like a unique device number that links it to the person who buys it and maybe require a background check and safety training before people are licensed to make a purchase, but that doesn't fix the problem of private resale later so its kinda a complicated problem.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's quite a lot of government regulation to be implemented by newly hired government employees you have there.

And I'm sure, in grand DMV style, that' will work perfectly and prevent anything, ever.
 
Lith1um said:
On a side note,


War as a video game, an express line to losing your soul as a human being.

Thank god Obama has a Nobel peace prize, or we might start killing innocent civilians. /End Sarcasm
Click to expand...

I would only add, this is exactly the same thing as all combat servicemen have always experienced. This is just what happens to good people who have to fight and kill. It's a symptom of a human being who is asked to do inhuman acts and is trying to distance himself, and insulate his soul, from the actions that he himself must take.

What makes it harder is that a drone operator in Nevada can't even lay it off on the old "It was him or me" thing. It's harder on them in many ways. No fight or flight, no way to hide from it, and it's all recorded for their viewing pleasure. I bet they even have to watch the recording after and do an after action review for the bean counters.
 
Darunion said:
Exactly! I get about 10-15minute flight times, run about 2 batteries then I'm done. I would be gone before anyone even got to my area and that is assuming someone calls the second I take flight.

and yes, sometimes I get 30seconds on a battery if something goes wrong and it ends up in a pond which happened once.
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Dude, I don't need to get there before you leave. I just need the location, the rest is on a camera somewhere, your plate numbers recorded by a license plate reader, your phone updated an app with location tracking info. So much evidence, so little time :p

You can DF a target emitter in just a view minutes time. Imagine you are talking to someone over a phone while they are in a field and you are driving down the road a half mile away. All the way down the road your phone is checking your location and the angle from your phone to the other phone, relative to the road and route of travel. Every moment, as you go down that road, your phone is getting a tighter and tighter lock on the other phones location. It doesn't take long and it isn't hard to do, or even expensive really.
 
Merc1138 said:
Sure but it still takes time to get that equipment to the area, and find the operator.
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If you put up a few towers then the equipment is always there. If you install it in your own drone fleet they are always up. And as I said, they don't have to get to you, they just have to know where you were, the rest is combining this information with other information in order to determine who was there and where they have gone.

It's not even a question of capability, it's just a question of motivation and that's mostly a question of "can I make any money doing it".
 
no way people are going to comply, they sell drones in the checkout lines at supermarkets down here... they are toys... next I am going to need to register any RC cars with the DMV :rolleyes:
 
lcpiper said:
I would only add, this is exactly the same thing as all combat servicemen have always experienced. This is just what happens to good people who have to fight and kill. It's a symptom of a human being who is asked to do inhuman acts and is trying to distance himself, and insulate his soul, from the actions that he himself must take.

What makes it harder is that a drone operator in Nevada can't even lay it off on the old "It was him or me" thing. It's harder on them in many ways. No fight or flight, no way to hide from it, and it's all recorded for their viewing pleasure. I bet they even have to watch the recording after and do an after action review for the bean counters.
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Agreed.
 
lcpiper said:
If you put up a few towers then the equipment is always there. If you install it in your own drone fleet they are always up. And as I said, they don't have to get to you, they just have to know where you were, the rest is combining this information with other information in order to determine who was there and where they have gone.

It's not even a question of capability, it's just a question of motivation and that's mostly a question of "can I make any money doing it".
Click to expand...

A few towers? Everywhere? Decent cell signal is a problem in some metropolitan areas in 2015 and you think someone is going to pay for towers to triangulation drones, assuming they even know the operating frequency...
 
Merc1138 said:
A few towers? Everywhere? Decent cell signal is a problem in some metropolitan areas in 2015 and you think someone is going to pay for towers to triangulation drones, assuming they even know the operating frequency...
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No, just near the problem areas like airports.

Besides, I can't talk about this too much, but whether you realize it or not, everything needed is already in place and has been for like 20 years. It's just that most people don't know anything about it or don't read enough Tom Clancy :D

A manually controlled UAS or a UAS that is automated but uses GPS has radio transmitters. All radio transmissions are easily subject to interception and it's been going on since WW2. It never stopped, it's always been important, and it's never been easier.

The only questions are "who wants to know about what" and "do they have the authority to find out". But it isn't a question of technology or capability.
 
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