What Really Keeps Women Out Of Tech

Megalith

Megalith

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So basically, women aren’t in tech because they’re superficial?

Dr. Cheryan and her colleagues have found that female students are more interested in enrolling in a computer class if they are shown a classroom (whether virtual or real) decorated not with “Star Wars” posters, science-fiction books, computer parts and tech magazines, but with a more neutral décor — art and nature posters, coffee makers, plants and general-interest magazines.
 
i guess 10 articles / week isn't enough about women and tech for [H], gotta have more.

thanks for the.... 'news'.
 
Why can't it just be because men and women are different and have a different way of thinking about things? It's not some society gender role being manufactured or anything. Men & women are different. And it's perfectly fine for it to be that way. I like some girly stuff, and some girls like manly stuff. But, in general, there are some things that men are more interested in than women and the other way around. It's not just human nature, it's animal nature...
 
This just in. Women and men are different both culturally/socially and biologically. Equal rights doesn't mean we are actually equal in every way. I think there are always going to be certain fields/industries that more women or more men will gravitate towards. If "tech magazines" make you unwilling to take a computer class then in all honesty it probably wasn't the right job for you in the first place. I think most people in the tech industry were interested in tech long before they ever took a class about it. Wozniak and Jobs were working at HP when they were still in high school, before there was even a consumer PC industry, let alone classes to take for it.

That being said I do think the "boys club" aspect of the tech industry does turn a lot of women away. When you already know that women get paid less than men (across all industries), you probably aren't going to be very keen on jumping into a workplace where 90% of your co-workers are men, and most likely the people who can promote you or give you a raise are men too.
 
travbrad said:
When you already know that women get paid less than men (across all industries),
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Stop trying to keep perpetuating the myth. Ever since the 1990 census found that the average of what all college grad women made, was 101% of what college grad educated men made, it's been pretty clear that women who are serious enough about their careers to work as hard and long as men can make the same money. Most women simply make choices that cripple their earning capabilities.

However, you can make statistics tell you whatever you want. For example. I'm a registered nurse. Every woman except one in my department makes more money than I do.

SO IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY!!!!! RIGHT????

Nope. They've all been there longer, and have more experience. Same as what most women experience in other fields when they see men making more than they do. Men routinely stay on the job longer, and in consecutive years, and most often longer with the same companies than women do.
 
And before you ask me for the references, I got it out of the Wall Street Journal back when the census came out. They reported it. Look it up yourself.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Why can't it just be because men and women are different and have a different way of thinking about things? It's not some society gender role being manufactured or anything. Men & women are different. And it's perfectly fine for it to be that way. I like some girly stuff, and some girls like manly stuff. But, in general, there are some things that men are more interested in than women and the other way around. It's not just human nature, it's animal nature...
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No, it's because of silly stereotypes such as this. If this had been about the military, I'd say sure, women are always less capable than men physically -- if they were both top athletes. In this case, we have stereotypes pushed onto us from day 1. Pink for girls, blue for boys, this doll for you, daughter child, this car for you, boy child. And on and on and on.

I do, funny enough, know a female mainframe programmer that people automatically assume is a stay-at-home mom, but is far more brilliant than any of us on this board talking nonsense. Also, if you read the article, it says that women is CS has fallen and women were pioneers and the number of women in CS was actually growing faster than that of men.

So, no, it isn't about women and men thinking differently or whatever other nonsense you listed.
 
travbrad said:
This just in. Women and men are different both culturally/socially and biologically. Equal rights doesn't mean we are actually equal in every way. I think there are always going to be certain fields/industries that more women or more men will gravitate towards. If "tech magazines" make you unwilling to take a computer class then in all honesty it probably wasn't the right job for you in the first place. I think most people in the tech industry were interested in tech long before they ever took a class about it. Wozniak and Jobs were working at HP when they were still in high school, before there was even a consumer PC industry, let alone classes to take for it.

That being said I do think the "boys club" aspect of the tech industry does turn a lot of women away. When you already know that women get paid less than men (across all industries), you probably aren't going to be very keen on jumping into a workplace where 90% of your co-workers are men, and most likely the people who can promote you or give you a raise are men too.
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Read the article and the linked articles before commenting.
 
DF-1 said:
i guess 10 articles / week isn't enough about women and tech for [H], gotta have more.

thanks for the.... 'news'.
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God forbid you have a daughter or sister. You must've spawned yourself too.
 
travbrad said:
That being said I do think the "boys club" aspect of the tech industry does turn a lot of women away. When you already know that women get paid less than men (across all industries), you probably aren't going to be very keen on jumping into a workplace where 90% of your co-workers are men, and most likely the people who can promote you or give you a raise are men too.
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Sweet. So you're saying that I can start a business and immediately outperform all of the competition by lowering my operating margin simply due to hiring only women and benefiting from the obvious savings in payroll while maintaining the same revenue?

Oh wait, that's bullshit.
 
Merc1138 said:
Sweet. So you're saying that I can start a business and immediately outperform all of the competition by lowering my operating margin simply due to hiring only women and benefiting from the obvious savings in payroll while maintaining the same revenue?

Oh wait, that's bullshit.
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Very good point, why aren't there ultra successful tech companies that exploit this gender discrepancy?
Why aren't there really any period?
An all female tech firm should theoretically exist, and bypass all this supposed sexism, exposing it's true footprint in society?

I think the real answers are beyond the minds of any apologists
 
Kalabalana said:
Very good point, why aren't there ultra successful tech companies that exploit this gender discrepancy?
Why aren't there really any period?
An all female tech firm should theoretically exist, and bypass all this supposed sexism, exposing it's true footprint in society?

I think the real answers are beyond the minds of any apologists
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It doesn't even need to be about some all female pro femi-whatever thing. It simply boils down to money. I've repeatedly seen this claim of women making anywhere from 77 to 80 percent compared to what men make. Assuming the same quality of work and productivity is achieved, it makes no financial sense to hire anyone but women. How else are you going to cut payroll by 20% or more while having zero effect on the operation of a business?

Hell, if this is true and there is a "shortage" of women in the tech industry(there really is a smaller number of women in the industry), I could split the difference and offer 90% of the pay that a man would get, lower my payroll costs by 10%, and be able to headhunt talent from companies to fill positions since I'd be offering them a 10-13% raise.

We all know that the bean counters at any large company would love to do that, but somehow it doesn't happen.
 
The reason women arent as prominent in the IT sector is because they werent forced into it like most/all of us were. Cmon lets be honest, I bet we're all gamers, we all spent many summers indoors, got laid late, had just a few girlfriends, and were the typical computer nerd. Not necessarily acne ridden poindexters or fat neckbeards, but we werent exactly star of the Lacrosse teams and attending parties at Stiflers house either. So we ended up becoming absorbed with our PC's.

Girls have one distinct advantage over this; they are sex objects. That gives them a huge leg up on the popularity foodchain. So long as she isnt obese, even a very average girl can lead a pretty entertaining social life growing up. As a result they arent in isolated geekdom. Ever notice the few tech savvy girls out there are usually unattractive to the point that they face the same rejection the avg male gamer nerd does?
 
nightfly said:
Stop trying to keep perpetuating the myth. Ever since the 1990 census found that the average of what all college grad women made, was 101% of what college grad educated men made, it's been pretty clear that women who are serious enough about their careers to work as hard and long as men can make the same money. Most women simply make choices that cripple their earning capabilities.
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Partially true. They make similar amounts immediately after graduating but as time goes on they don't seem to get paid/promoted as much.

85


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da...graduate-college-but-still-earn-less-than-men

sonsonate said:
Read the article and the linked articles before commenting.
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I did read it. What was wrong with my post? Or did you not read it? ;)
 
Ur_Mom said:
Why can't it just be because men and women are different and have a different way of thinking about things? It's not some society gender role being manufactured or anything. Men & women are different. And it's perfectly fine for it to be that way. I like some girly stuff, and some girls like manly stuff. But, in general, there are some things that men are more interested in than women and the other way around. It's not just human nature, it's animal nature...
Click to expand...

What is it about pinterest that is so sexist towards men and keeping them out?!
 
Constant sitting and focusing on things like text are very odd for young men, other than very recent history. Standing up and stretching really stands out in a class and might be disciplined.

Thousands in the U.S. will adapt and be adept, comfortable with testing, etc.and choosing to pursue the tech field. And people from around the world.

There don't have to be that many to overflow each job opening at least 5:1. Right?

Tech companies could hire every female applicant for three years but then if they hire 5 times as many males beyond that, the ratios won't be "right."
 
McFry said:
The reason women arent as prominent in the IT sector is because they werent forced into it like most/all of us were. Cmon lets be honest, I bet we're all gamers, we all spent many summers indoors, got laid late, had just a few girlfriends, and were the typical computer nerd. Not necessarily acne ridden poindexters or fat neckbeards, but we werent exactly star of the Lacrosse teams and attending parties at Stiflers house either. So we ended up becoming absorbed with our PC's.

Girls have one distinct advantage over this; they are sex objects. That gives them a huge leg up on the popularity foodchain. So long as she isnt obese, even a very average girl can lead a pretty entertaining social life growing up. As a result they arent in isolated geekdom. Ever notice the few tech savvy girls out there are usually unattractive to the point that they face the same rejection the avg male gamer nerd does?
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hahah omg that was well written Sir! So true on every level. Luckily i don't really fit at either end of that scale (but i'd chose to have boobs any day of the week, no way would i give up that free ride!) as i was a late bloomer to the PC world but i was an introvert before i got into Computers. Funny stuff! ya just have to laugh at the truths sometimes. :)
 
Who cares. Men and women are different. We have different interests and talents. Move on.
 
travbrad said:
Partially true. They make similar amounts immediately after graduating but as time goes on they don't seem to get paid/promoted as much.
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You know why that is, right? They start families, take maternity leave, and more often than not, give up pursuing their careers to spend more time at home. There isn't some conspiracy to pay women less.
 
travbrad said:
Partially true. They make similar amounts immediately after graduating but as time goes on they don't seem to get paid/promoted as much.

85


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da...graduate-college-but-still-earn-less-than-men



I did read it. What was wrong with my post? Or did you not read it? ;)
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Did you actually read that study or did you just post the graph. Men make more money because generally speaking they work more hours and take less time off. When you factor in those variables the so call income inequity disappears.
 
Everyone in here is wrong. What keeps people out of tech is that dudes drawn penis's on EVERYTHING.

They don't want to deal with that shit.
 
travbrad said:
85


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da...graduate-college-but-still-earn-less-than-men



I did read it. What was wrong with my post? Or did you not read it? ;)
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Hold the phone, reguardless of oringal topic, if at 26 your average starting wage is $35k a year, there is no way your average pay is going to be over 100k in 10-15 years. Mind you this is average pay. I can see some people making 100k on the coast, but they did not start with a degree requiring job at 35k and then worked their way up the company ladder to 100-150k. And i repeat this is average, that means MOST people who took a degree requiring job at $35k are now making ON AVERAGE $100k after 10 years experience in their field.
 
OEM said:
Everyone in here is wrong. What keeps people out of tech is that dudes drawn penis's on EVERYTHING.

They don't want to deal with that shit.
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Maybe if they got rid of all the mice and track pads, and everyone was force to used just the nub between the g and h key, men would loose the advantage.
 
McFry said:
The reason women arent as prominent in the IT sector is because they werent forced into it like most/all of us were. Cmon lets be honest, I bet we're all gamers, we all spent many summers indoors, got laid late, had just a few girlfriends, and were the typical computer nerd. Not necessarily acne ridden poindexters or fat neckbeards, but we werent exactly star of the Lacrosse teams and attending parties at Stiflers house either. So we ended up becoming absorbed with our PC's.
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You just described my life:(
 
So, women are superficial? In other news: water is found to be wet, more at 11.
 
Women want all men to be all things to them at any given time. Everyone will be sorely disappointed. This article makes no difference. If the decor of a classroom on IT/Tech/Coding was the impetus to bring women into the industry, then they will be sorely disappointed when they get out in the job market.
 
Methadras said:
Women want all men to be all things to them at any given time. Everyone will be sorely disappointed. This article makes no difference. If the decor of a classroom on IT/Tech/Coding was the impetus to bring women into the industry, then they will be sorely disappointed when they get out in the job market.
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Oh, that's ok. The SJWs will jump on some new bandwagon about "de-nerding" tech industry workspaces or something.
 
"Creative approaches to problem solving in science and engineering using Python"

WTF kind of name for a class is that?
 
That's one hell of a slanted headline even for [H]. Applying for new Buzzfeed positions?
 
travbrad said:
Partially true. They make similar amounts immediately after graduating but as time goes on they don't seem to get paid/promoted as much.

85


http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/da...graduate-college-but-still-earn-less-than-men



I did read it. What was wrong with my post? Or did you not read it? ;)
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I guess you don't plan to reproduce.

Look at the age range where things start to diverge. Late 20's early 30's. When women are likely to take time off of work to have children and raise them for a 4-5 years until they start school. Remove those years of divergence the trend is line on line
 
travbrad said:
Partially true. They make similar amounts immediately after graduating but as time goes on they don't seem to get paid/promoted as much.
Click to expand...

Because most women do not care to advance further in their job. And/or they start a family, get out of the work space for a couple years or longer and then come back with no more experience or education.

Men hardly take time off to start a family. They drive themselves to be "better" and more successful.
 
hity645 said:
Because most women do not care to advance further in their job. And/or they start a family, get out of the work space for a couple years or longer and then come back with no more experience or education.

Men hardly take time off to start a family. They drive themselves to be "better" and more successful.
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There's a lot of pressure to start a family and most people give into that and biological urges to make and care for babies. Nothing sucks more than hearing from your mom, "Oh honey, when are you going to give us grandchildren?" or "You're 24 and don't have a baby or boyfriend. Are you a lesbian? It's okay to admit it to us. Your father and I are very progressive." Like seriously...FU mom, people don't "give" you grandkids to dote over because you're fucking bored and fucking retired and have nothing-fucking-else-to-fucking-do but call your kid and ask her to get busy being disgusting with some revoltingly sweaty man-pig so you can dote over a that man-pig's little screamer baby and not being interested does not make you a fucking lesbian dammit! If you want kids so bad, just buy one with your mountain of money you got digging for gold your entire life. Oh and then there's your high school friends that you thought were nice, but now realize are idiots but you're too decent to tell them what twits they are when you go to their baby showers and pretend to be excited about the watermelon growing inside them while hiding the disgust from watching your other idiot friends giggle about getting their hand kicked by the thing inside that you just know is gonna go all Aliens movie on everyone in during the shower. So yeah, I agree that the family thing is very much part of the income disparity and accounts for the lower per-hour rate afterwards because you naturally get all family-focused and stuff so the job is less important than your new child...which is good in a way and scary in others, but whatever, why are we even having this discussion again?
 
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