Reddit CEO: Some Communities Shouldn’t Be Here at All

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Last time someone said something like this, everyone on Reddit grabbed their pitch forks and torches. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

The overwhelming majority of content on reddit comes from wonderful, creative, funny, smart, and silly communities. That is what makes reddit great. There is also a dark side, communities whose purpose is reprehensible, and we don’t have any obligation to support them. And we also believe that some communities currently on the platform should not be here at all.
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Why did people leave 4chan in the first place?

Reddit has always been for stupid hipsters that don't understand it's a for-profit company that is dissecting them like insects... finding out what they like, what they do... and delivering ads and selling the data to others.
 
Cyraxx said:
Why did people leave 4chan in the first place?

Reddit has always been for stupid hipsters that don't understand it's a for-profit company that is dissecting them like insects... finding out what they like, what they do... and delivering ads and selling the data to others.
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Don't know what subs you are reading on reddit, but the one that I participate in have very few if any ads...
 
Tuxon86 said:
Don't know what subs you are reading on reddit, but the one that I participate in have very few if any ads...
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Yeah...this...and I don't even have an adblocker at work.
 
Cyraxx said:
Why did people leave 4chan in the first place?

Reddit has always been for stupid hipsters that don't understand it's a for-profit company that is dissecting them like insects... finding out what they like, what they do... and delivering ads and selling the data to others.
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You mean like every single other website and search engine out there?
 
Cyraxx said:
Why did people leave 4chan in the first place?
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Because m00t was cucked and got angry for being mocked and put a bunch of SJWs in power, and really the whole place was cancer by then anyway as it had become mainstream but without any tools available for the community to properly downrank and bury shitposting.

This reminds me of the South Park episode where something is good, so they all use it, then it becomes big like Walmart so they burn it down, move to a new small place, it gets to big and evil, and they burn it down... rinse and repeat, lol! :D
 
temujin987 said:
because mods were replaced by SJWs and absolutely everything was censored to shit. every single gamergate thread was deleted and people banned.
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To some degree, yes. When sites like digg, reddit, and so forth are trying to grow their presence they'll take all-comers just to get the traffic. They don't care who you are or what you want to talk about, they just want the traffic. Once they grow to a certain point and start to attract investors ... and when the wider internet starts to notice them ... they turn around and start to try to "clean up their act". That's when they seek to attract moderators and anyone else that'll help police their site and keep it as clean as possible. Investors and advertisers don't want to associate with the unpopular topics so those are the first to go.

Reddit itself right now wants to grow itself financially, not traffic-wise. It already has tons of traffic so now it wants to monetize and boost its revenue for that traffic. It can't do that while hosting a pile of stuff that the SJW's will scream and yell about to investors and advertisers.
 
When Reddit decided they were going to ban Global Warming deniers, I knew the site was headed the wrong way. Regardless if you believe in GW or not, the idea of only allowing one side to speak means you're taking sides and limiting free speech. They've decided they're only going to allow people they agree with to speak. This sounds like they're going to do more of the same.

ArsTechnica is on the borderline of doing the same thing and have asked their uses what they would think if they did. Why they feel the need to have articles on the environment is beyond me, but asking uses if it's okay to ban people that don't agree with their point of view is startling to say the least.

The overall trend is free speech is okay as long as we agree with it, otherwise you're banned.
 
Eh, I've always hated the fucking rep system of Reddit anyway.... Gives cocktards too much power
 
pgwalsh said:
When Reddit decided they were going to ban Global Warming deniers, I knew the site was headed the wrong way. Regardless if you believe in GW or not, the idea of only allowing one side to speak means you're taking sides and limiting free speech. They've decided they're only going to allow people they agree with to speak. This sounds like they're going to do more of the same.

ArsTechnica is on the borderline of doing the same thing and have asked their uses what they would think if they did. Why they feel the need to have articles on the environment is beyond me, but asking uses if it's okay to ban people that don't agree with their point of view is startling to say the least.

The overall trend is free speech is okay as long as we agree with it, otherwise you're banned.
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I used to think that it was stupid when all of the disclaimers started popping up at the beginning of pretty much everything explaining that the views expressed therein were not the views or advocated by the site/studio/newspaper/etc. It has only gone further downhill since then. I have never understood the campaigns against companies for the dumb shit people have said, except maybe in the case of Trump because he is the brand.
 
That's fair for the CEO to state that, and the problem with Pao's implementation is that it was unevenly enforced (plus the concept was stupid... some group is bound to be offended by any controversial topic).

If Reddit wants to enforce subreddit bans based on objective criteria, I say good luck. The line is going to be so fuzzy that it can only be enforced in ways likely to make many vocal users unhappy, possibly for legitimate reasons.
 
I love how there's a false dichotomy of either we allow everything or it's Stalin's USSR. [H] has rules here and in the GenMay forums--nobody cries censorship over those.

Everyone crying slippery slope needs to stop assuming the worst all the time and Godwinning everything. That's what we have these debates for--if there's a slope we're gonna argue and debate whether the slope exists, if it does, how far to move down it, etc. It's as though if a community declares that it has standards, it's suddenly "censorship" where whiny internet tantrum-throwers compare themselves to people suffering under actual censor-happy regimes (e.g. Russia, Iran, China) because they can't accept that with freedom come responsibilities and consequences.
 
Sovereign said:
I love how there's a false dichotomy of either we allow everything or it's Stalin's USSR. [H] has rules here and in the GenMay forums--nobody cries censorship over those.
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I consider [H] like a subreddit, where it is policed as is the desire of that community leadership. No one cares that subreddits have different rules and censor themselves in different ways, but when you're talking a site as big as reddit shutting down various communities and trying to decide the conversation on a site that grew as a community based entirely on that "a sandbox for everyone" open platform, that's a whole different beast.
 
There is no expectation of free speech on someone else's platform.

No one's 1st amendment rights have been violated.

That being said, reddit has always thrived by being a safe place to express ones opinions, even if they are controversial, and ironically their striving to make reddit more "safe" is killing off this safe place.

It is in their own interest - if they want to stay relevant - to let anyone say whatever they want, and host any subreddit they want, as long as they are not doing anything criminal, or doxxing anyone.

Otherwise, reddit will fade into oblivion like digg did, and something else will take its place. People desire the freedom to voice their opinions even if they aren't politically correct, and if they can't they'll go somewhere else.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041732934 said:
There is no expectation of free speech on someone else's platform.

No one's 1st amendment rights have been violated.
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Of course note, and no one is waiving a flag talking about 1st amendment.

People have been waiving the flag of FREE ENTERPRISE. There is no contract between the community and Reddit management, and no loyalty whatsoever.

No one really gives a rats ass where the servers are hosted or who is hosting them, as long as they are up and running.

The community is the only thing of true value that Reddit has, as 99.99% of Reddits "employees" are community volunteers and the community is also the customer and the site more or less runs itself, and frankly the customer is always right. The customer has made it abundantly clear what they want. Reddit has a choice to make, and that choice is likely to dictate whether Reddit remains the internet social media big-dog or is abandoned like yesterday's news.
 
If the reddit community dies because reddit banned a couple of subreddits for being reprehensible then the reddit community probably deserves to die.

If you're mad because reddit won't let people talk about how inferior brown people are or dox fat people anymore then you should probably seek help.
 
whats wrong with saying that. /r/spacedicks isnt about free speech. some of the subs are just a waste of resources.
 
BOTA:49 said:
While that's true then they probably need to make some adjustments to their rules page. They should also mention that when a co-founder states reddit is “A bastion of free speech on the World Wide Web? I bet they would like it,” that was just their position at the time.

The disconnect between reddit management and the users is getting to be pretty bad.
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well reddit considers themselves the "front page of the internet" :p ... so uhhhh, i dont know what else theres to say about those twats
 
rehab said:
whats wrong with saying that. /r/spacedicks isnt about free speech. some of the subs are just a waste of resources.
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The problem comes from power hungry admins punishing others on the basis of what they believe to be acceptable.

The subreddits /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/neofag were closed because the admins claimed they were harassing people off-site, which wasn't true, while /r/shitredditsays does harass people regularly, both on and off site, and has yet to receive any punishments because they do it in the name of social justice.

Other admins have championed the idea of closing /r/kotakuinaction due to the gamergate affiliation, but have avoided actually going through with it because of the PR nightmare it would produce.

Again, not saying some subreddits aren't absolute garbage, but you don't have to visit them either.
 
maverikv said:
If the reddit community dies because reddit banned a couple of subreddits for being reprehensible then the reddit community probably deserves to die.

If you're mad because reddit won't let people talk about how inferior brown people are or dox fat people anymore then you should probably seek help.
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I don't think the Reddit community as a whole is upset about banning outright apparent racism, bigotry and doxxing. (though there probably is a minority that are upset about this, as unfortunately we still live in a world with honest to god overt racists.)

The problem - however - is that none of these issues are black and white. (no pun intended) There are many shades of grey, and where people draw the line in that grey mess is going to be very personal, and based on their experiences, and there has to a platform for discussing the grey without being labeled a racist and banned/ostracized.

While most feminists, black people, LGBT people, etc are perfectly reasonable people, there is also a subset of these communities that are on the crazy fringe, and what often happens is that when you criticize the crazies for their outrageous world views, you get painted as a chauvinist (or better yet, "rape apologist", love that one), racist or bigot, and people try to ban you and have you removed.

This is where the danger lies.

Now, Reddit is under no obligation to be the platform where these discussions take place (again, this isn't a first amendment issue) but that's what they have marketed themselves as all along, a safe place for discussion where you can discuss your views.

If they no longer want to play that role, that is perfectly fine, but they should do so realizing that a large portion of they community (maybe even the majority?) are there because they want to discuss things like this, and do not want to shy away from controversy, and that they will move on somewhere else.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041733088 said:
I don't think the Reddit community as a whole is upset about banning outright apparent racism, bigotry and doxxing. (though there probably is a minority that are upset about this, as unfortunately we still live in a world with honest to god overt racists.)

The problem - however - is that none of these issues are black and white. (no pun intended) There are many shades of grey, and where people draw the line in that grey mess is going to be very personal, and based on their experiences, and there has to a platform for discussing the grey without being labeled a racist and banned/ostracized.

While most feminists, black people, LGBT people, etc are perfectly reasonable people, there is also a subset of these communities that are on the crazy fringe, and what often happens is that when you criticize the crazies for their outrageous world views, you get painted as a chauvinist (or better yet, "rape apologist", love that one), racist or bigot, and people try to ban you and have you removed.

This is where the danger lies.

Now, Reddit is under no obligation to be the platform where these discussions take place (again, this isn't a first amendment issue) but that's what they have marketed themselves as all along, a safe place for discussion where you can discuss your views.

If they no longer want to play that role, that is perfectly fine, but they should do so realizing that a large portion of they community (maybe even the majority?) are there because they want to discuss things like this, and do not want to shy away from controversy, and that they will move on somewhere else.
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Example:

In a conversation about the male female wage gap, I might post a message pinting out that, you know I am 100% on board with gender equality, but that the data you are using to fuel your outrage may not be accurate, followed by linking reputable sources, like Forbes or a well written piece on The Huffington post pointing out that the data does not support the "Women earn 77% of men doing the same job" myth, and that there is a lot more to the equation including (among many others) self selection (picking jobs in a field that pay less) etc. etc, and that thus the narrative that there are women and men sitting in the same building doing the same job with the same qualifications and seniority and that there is an average 23% gap in their income, simply isn't true, and that - in fact- in more recent studies the real gap, when accounting for all of these variables is closer to 6%, which is in the noise level for the accuracy of the studies.

Simply pointing out facts like these would get me - by some - labeled as a "rape apologist" (because, you know, "most men don't realize they can rape a woman without ever touching her") and have a massive outrage train targeted at having me booted from a site, and banned, when I am PRO gender equality.

In many of these subjects you have the hard line SJW's (for lack of a better word, I hate that term, as I find social justice of the utmost importance in society) for whom, either you are on board with everything they say, factually correct or not, or you are the enemy, a "sea lion", offensive and need to be banned.

And this is just one subject of many.

Reddit was kind of a bastion of a place to have free conversations like these, and if thats's no longer what they want to be, it is a pity.
 
There's a difference between having and expressing an opinion and outright hate or destructive behavior.

If there's a subreddit dedicated to discussing racial issues, that's one thing. It's completely different from having a subreddit dedicated to hate like coontown.
 
I get that, really, but I think the Free Speech card gets thrown out so quick and often that its getting absurd. I dont visit the sub that is images of dead girls, but I also wholeheartedly agree that it needs to be removed. Who in the hell would argue that it should stay up? Its globally unacceptable, and there should be no place to revel in something like that. If someone is part of a sub that is inhumane, or...I dont know what the word is since these go far beyond debauchery, erotic, and licentious...maybe overtly deplorable for joy... and it gets closed down, who gives a shit. F that weirdo and I hope I can punch your throat someday when you leave your moms basement. That person brings nothing to society, so their opinion carries no weight.

I agree they need to change their mission statement or whatever but at the same time, they do make money, so they can make new rules and alter their outward appearance.
 
maverikv said:
There's a difference between having and expressing an opinion and outright hate or destructive behavior.
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Say this to a devout Muslim: "Your God is imaginary just like Santa Clause, and while we recognize when talking about Zeus that its just mythology, we still pretend like Allah is a real thing. Your prophet was a pedophile one percenter, and there's no logical reason to abstain from eating pork, as bacon is the master-race of meat. Religion is the root of all evil, and the world would be better off without it, then we wouldn't have ISIS and such."

Is that an opinion or outright hateful? There's too much that is subjective. And what if that were confined to /r/AtheistCircleJerk... if you're a Muslim, just don't go in that thread, and let Atheists high five each other. Why would it bother you if you don't even have to look at it?

Again, Reddit has never and will never allow actual hate speech, such as say organizing a mob to go out and hurt someone. That's nonsense, and no one condones that, and its plain illegal so their IP would probably be handed over immediately to authorities.
 
rehab said:
I get that, really, but I think the Free Speech card gets thrown out so quick and often that its getting absurd. I dont visit the sub that is images of dead girls, but I also wholeheartedly agree that it needs to be removed. Who in the hell would argue that it should stay up? Its globally unacceptable, and there should be no place to revel in something like that. If someone is part of a sub that is inhumane, or...I dont know what the word is since these go far beyond debauchery, erotic, and licentious...maybe overtly deplorable for joy... and it gets closed down, who gives a shit. F that weirdo and I hope I can punch your throat someday when you leave your moms basement. That person brings nothing to society, so their opinion carries no weight.

I agree they need to change their mission statement or whatever but at the same time, they do make money, so they can make new rules and alter their outward appearance.
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Some necrophiliacs probably disagree with your assertion. I get the point that you're driving at. The issue is that if you want to support a truly free flow of ideas, they're not all going to be good ones.

The nature of Reddit is obviously changing from a laissez-faire environment to an assisted self-policing forum. A minority of people will be discouraged and move on, after voicing their concerns. What remains will be a different culture, not necessarily better or worse, just different.
 
They very easily solutions is that you just don't have /all actually be every subreddit. Let the nasty subs do their thing in piece as long as they're not hurting anyone. Just don't advertise them or drive traffic to them. If someone wants to be there, they'll know how to get to it.
 
Maximus825 said:
They very easily solutions is that you just don't have /all actually be every subreddit. Let the nasty subs do their thing in piece as long as they're not hurting anyone. Just don't advertise them or drive traffic to them. If someone wants to be there, they'll know how to get to it.
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By virtue of the ranking system, only the most popular mainstream crap ends up in /all. If its too controversial, it would get too many downvotes and might only show up on /all under the "controversial" sorter, as you'd otherwise never see it.

And if you're specifically clicking to find controversial stuff... well, shit you can't be offended when you find something controversial, so just downvote it or ignore it and move on.
 
Ducman69 said:
By virtue of the ranking system, only the most popular mainstream crap ends up in /all. If its too controversial, it would get too many downvotes and might only show up on /all under the "controversial" sorter, as you'd otherwise never see it.

And if you're specifically clicking to find controversial stuff... well, shit you can't be offended when you find something controversial, so just downvote it or ignore it and move on.
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And the most popular mainstream crap is from subs that Reddit is saying they want to get rid of. FatPeopleHate was all over /all. A few thousand users decide what content everyone sees.
 
BlueSaber80 said:
You know place has serious problems if its got a fucking subsection for "Fat haters" Seriously?
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There's subreddits for virtually everything, thousand and thousands in total:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AnimalsWithoutNecks/

https://www.reddit.com/r/screamingfish/

https://www.reddit.com/r/enlightenedbirdmen

Hell, there's a sub dedicated to photoshopping hitler's head onto pornography, when you finish pretending to be birds battling a human dominated planet. Fat shaming is hardly the weirdest thing on reddit, as that's the whole point, its a sandbox for anyone/anything that's not illegal... that was kind of the beauty of it.
 
Maximus825 said:
FatPeopleHate was all over /all. A few thousand users decide what content everyone sees.
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Because a majority of the community felt like back-lashing against the nonsensical fat-acceptance that is being shoved down our throats by the liberal media.

Its an extreme counter-culture and a celebration of free speech to make a point, and no it was not a few thousand, it was over 150 thousand. Most don't actually hate fat people... statistically since its mostly an American userbase, most are overweight themselves, but some of the top ranked posts resonated with people that are fed up with hearing "its all about that bass" and other fat-praising.

You'll find quite often that the more you force people to accept an extreme viewpoint by SPAMing them relentlessly, such as the big movement now often by feminists to redefine beauty and what not (I may be morbidly obese but I'm here to tell you that I'm SEXY because you can't decide for yourself), the more you end up with a backlash just as strong in the opposite direction as a means to bring balance to the force or the matrix or whatever sci-fi analogy you prefer. ;)
 
There may be a moral limit of what should be offered as content, but then my morality is different from yours.

If you limit what can be said, good luck but it'll erode the site and active submitters and participants will leave because they have to worry about what they write or how.

You can take this to any extremes either way. That's the problem with censorship.

If something is against the law and makes the site liable, they have no choice but to do away with it. But a lot of the so-so content they are talking about makes the site, whether they like it or not.
 
And the big problem with taking a moral stand, is that now you have basically said that you now take an active role in what is and isn't on the site, and that if its on the site then you must condone it.

So if you take down fatpeoplehate because you don't condone it, then I will come forward and say well since we're doing moral police I want to see X, Y, and Z that I don't like pulled down. And once you now start taking down dozens of subreddits, it just snowballs from there until you're left with nothing but a super clean Rated G for kids website, and the community simply won't tolerate that and will simply say "Ya, hi, bye bye!" and move on.
lollerwaffle said:
But a lot of the so-so content they are talking about makes the site, whether they like it or not.
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Yup, the fappening alone is said to have increased Reddit's value by approximately $100 million from all the traffic it drove to the site, and of course the free advertising and name recognition that provided. So they can act all fake outraged at seeing Jennifer Lawrence's boobies, but fact is, that's what put the food on their plates. The Reddit CEO is a multi-millionaire after all, so its not like they are suffering.
 
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