America's ISPs Suck, And AT&T Sucks Worst

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And the award for "headline of the day" goes to this article. :D

In Chicago and Los Angeles, AT&T customers experienced speeds as low as 0.1 Mbps — basically unusable speeds, well below those advertised and the FCC’s standard of 25 Mbps. AT&T customers in Atlanta didn’t fair much better, with speeds dropping to 2 Mbps during peak use hours. The degraded speeds occurred when customers tried to access content across AT&T’s interconnections with the transit provider GTT.
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Interesting article, although their last sentence doesn't make much sense
Moreover, this data comes just as AT&T seeks government approval of its proposed merger with DirecTV, a transaction that would significantly expand AT&T's market power. The FCC should act to protect consumers from further harm.
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The AT&T merger with DirectTV will probably position AT&T stronger on the cable front and improve their negotiating power with the Oligarchies that control the content there but it shouldn't substantially change their position on the ISP front
 
It will give them a stonger position by bundling services. It's always more expensive to detach services, so most people going for DirecTV will probably go with AT&T for their ISP to avoid the higher price on their satellite service and having to shop around for a separate ISP.
 
Armenius said:
It will give them a stonger position by bundling services. It's always more expensive to detach services, so most people going for DirecTV will probably go with AT&T for their ISP to avoid the higher price on their satellite service and having to shop around for a separate ISP.
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I am not sure that linkage is quite as direct since I don't think DirectTV offers ISP services through the same satellite used for the programming ... you either have to buy a second dish or use one of their third party providers ... I still suspect this merger is more about improving AT&T's negotiating power for content (they are a very small TV provider and easily pushed around by the content owners who have a strong negotiating position) ... although I am sure they will try and bundle services themselves, there will still be more competition since you need a second line to get the internet ... the merger would also help their wireless position as DirectTV owns some wireless spectrum from the last auction
 
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
 
Unusable is very much the wrong term. as someone who could probably imitate the dialup modem sounds.. .1 is about old dual isdn speeds. that is very usable. just not for media. browsing and email would be okay. Would be nice if developers could make their stuff more efficient.

I was accually using a 384k connection just a couple years ago too

still sucks though. Annoying, frustrating and a bunch of other words that lead to a sad face.
 
It's worth noting that this is accessing data across edge routers.

While - IMHO - the reason we have internet service is exactly to access the data outside our ISP's networks, and as such any speeds should be measured at the worst choke point, ISP's have often taken the "ita outside our control" argument (even when they are to blame for poor peering by failing to expand on their side) leaving many people with great internet speeds, as long as they only want to access their own ISP's content :rolleyes:

Sometimes this edge router / peering choke is INTENTIONAL like when Comcast harmed peering to Netflix, in order to hold them over a barrel and squeeze money out of thrm., and what's worse is that the Net Neutrality regulation doesn't prohibited this. It explicitly excludes anything to do with peering or interconnect sites, focusing only on the last mile.

So, our Net Neutrality regulation is insufficient, and the neutering of the small portion of it that exists has now been attached to the government funding bill by bought and paid for politicians, so that in the next budget debates, we either shut down the government, or kill the poor net neutrality we have. :rolleyes:

So much for Democracy.

We live in a country where the will of the people means nothing, and wealthy special interests can buy whatever legislation they want...
 
redrage said:
Unusable is very much the wrong term. as someone who could probably imitate the dialup modem sounds.. .1 is about old dual isdn speeds. that is very usable. just not for media. browsing and email would be okay. Would be nice if developers could make their stuff more efficient.

I was accually using a 384k connection just a couple years ago too

still sucks though. Annoying, frustrating and a bunch of other words that lead to a sad face.
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I'm.one of the lucky ones.

I actually have 150/150 MBps FiOS at my house...

...unless I want to use it during peak hours in which case - before Netflix agreed to put servers inside Verizon's network - Netflix was practically unusable, and I get higher pings to all my servers.

I PAY for internet service, and as part of that agreement my ISP should be contractually held to keeping up with traffic demand across all of their peering sites.

I am.understanding and forgiving of temporary slowdowns while extra lines/switches/routers are added at peering sites but anything more than a week or two and my patience is exhausted.

I overpay for my service compared to the rest of the world. I expect immediate reaction on part of the ISP to fix any choke points in their network and peering sites.
 
Interesting--until earlier this year, we were on AT&T for about 4 years, with almost zero complaints. Decent customer service, decent prices as long as we called at the end of each promo period, reliable speed (*much* better than the equivalent from Comcast).
 
Uverse internet has been great for me as well. Unlike Comcast, I have had no outages for years. I also get 75 Mbps/7.5 Mpbs download/upload speeds, though those speeds are very neighborhood oriented in my area of Nashville. The max speeds vary from place to place, whereas Comcast can give you whatever speed you want anywhere in the city.

I have also been very pleased with AT&T customer service. They have given me significant discounts when asked, as well as reliable upgrades.
 
Flopper said:
sweden knows how to do Internet and broadband.
come live with us
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Once you fix those nasty winters or build domed cities sign me up ... as much as I love good internet I hate snow and the cold :D
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698775 said:
I'm.one of the lucky ones.

I actually have 150/150 MBps FiOS at my house...

...unless I want to use it during peak hours in which case - before Netflix agreed to put servers inside Verizon's network - Netflix was practically unusable, and I get higher pings to all my servers.

I PAY for internet service, and as part of that agreement my ISP should be contractually held to keeping up with traffic demand across all of their peering sites.

I am.understanding and forgiving of temporary slowdowns while extra lines/switches/routers are added at peering sites but anything more than a week or two and my patience is exhausted.

I overpay for my service compared to the rest of the world. I expect immediate reaction on part of the ISP to fix any choke points in their network and peering sites.
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playing devils advocate.

my understanding consumer FIOS is not guaranteed speed.. it is up to 150/150. You'll have to read your terms to know what their minimum acceptable is which may not even be in there.

In your case.. netflix (and probably a handful of other sites) where slow. Have you tried complaining to netflix? ask them to make their site more efficient?

You paid for internet service, and you had it, you just didn't have reliable netflix service. dispite popular beleif.. netflix, facebook, youtube.. is not the internet. though [H]ardOCP.com is close :D
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
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How much does that cost?
 
redrage said:
playing devils advocate.

my understanding consumer FIOS is not guaranteed speed.. it is up to 150/150. You'll have to read your terms to know what their minimum acceptable is which may not even be in there.

In your case.. netflix (and probably a handful of other sites) where slow. Have you tried complaining to netflix? ask them to make their site more efficient?

You paid for internet service, and you had it, you just didn't have reliable netflix service. dispite popular beleif.. netflix, facebook, youtube.. is not the internet. though [H]ardOCP.com is close :D
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Agreed, up to a point.

But of what benefit is paying for 150/150 service, if all I can do with it is pay my Verizon bill oon the verizon website? :p
 
kbrickley said:
Once you fix those nasty winters or build domed cities sign me up ... as much as I love good internet I hate snow and the cold :D
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Sweden isn't too bad, especially in the south.

It is a very LONG country, so far north, it gets VERY cold, and you have midnight sun (and midday dark, in the winter).

Further south - however - the climate (and appearance of the landscape) is rather Maine like.

I lived in Gothenburg for 16 years. After moving to Boston, I found that while the summers here are more oppressive, the winters weren't hugely different. On average the Boston winter is slightly more mild than in Gothenburg, but we get more snow in Boston than in Gothenburg. Snow in Gothenburg tends to fall in small quantities. An inch or two here or there. I don't remember ever getting a multi-foot snowstorm like we get in New England a few times a year.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698874 said:
Sweden isn't too bad, especially in the south.

It is a very LONG country, so far north, it gets VERY cold, and you have midnight sun (and midday dark, in the winter).

Further south - however - the climate (and appearance of the landscape) is rather Maine like.

I lived in Gothenburg for 16 years. After moving to Boston, I found that while the summers here are more oppressive, the winters weren't hugely different. On average the Boston winter is slightly more mild than in Gothenburg, but we get more snow in Boston than in Gothenburg. Snow in Gothenburg tends to fall in small quantities. An inch or two here or there. I don't remember ever getting a multi-foot snowstorm like we get in New England a few times a year.
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Certainly colder and probably more snow than New mexico though :p
 
kbrickley said:
I am not sure that linkage is quite as direct since I don't think DirectTV offers ISP services through the same satellite used for the programming ... you either have to buy a second dish or use one of their third party providers ... I still suspect this merger is more about improving AT&T's negotiating power for content (they are a very small TV provider and easily pushed around by the content owners who have a strong negotiating position) ... although I am sure they will try and bundle services themselves, there will still be more competition since you need a second line to get the internet ... the merger would also help their wireless position as DirectTV owns some wireless spectrum from the last auction
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You're an optimist using logic, which doesn't apply to American ISPs :p.

You are going to need a second line for internet service, and that was my point. Your average customer is going to go with the easiest path, or path of least resistance. If you can get an internet service bundled with your satellite TV, why bother shopping around for another that will be on another bill with its own contract terms? When I rented a house the landlord got Dish that came bundled with Earthlink cable internet. This innate human behavior is going to give AT&T more customers regardless of explicit adoption.
 
That article seems to be confused about the network versus interconnect speeds and locations.

Note that NN doesn't help with interconnect problems, as you can't force the ISP to buy a bigger pipe to connect to another long-haul network, just not to discriminate on traffic from any network.

And I just ran their test - they think I am in SF when I am in San Antonio. However, I got the speeds i pay for.

I suspect this is funded by the interconnect companies, looking to make the ISPs upgrade to connect to their particular network. They also have fake address and contact info in their domain.
 
I'm stuck on uverse... while TWC offers 200 Mbit internet, Uverse is stuck at 18Mbit. I've looked at bundles and they are comparable. 200 Mbit vs 18 Mbit. Let that sink in. AT&T has a "contract" with the complex manager that assures only AT&T is allowed to service our complex.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698876 said:
Certainly colder and probably more snow than New mexico though :p
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Yes, we had a horrible storm that shutdown Las Cruces and El Paso last year ... it was around a half inch (1.5 cm) of Snow (maybe a full inch in some places) ... it felt like being part of the Donner party :p
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
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Because if I get good service, then everyone else must get good service too!
 
kbrickley said:
Yes, we had a horrible storm that shutdown Las Cruces and El Paso last year ... it was around a half inch (1.5 cm) of Snow (maybe a full inch in some places) ... it felt like being part of the Donner party :p
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yeah, when you are not used to driving in it, and you live in a place where snow removal isn't good, even small amounts of snow can have profound impacts, espceially if people mostly have summer tires (instead of all-seasons)

Here, I have all wheel drive and dedicated snow tires for the winter.

Driving in a few inches of unplowed snow barely slows me down at all, but we had a bit more than a few inches this year :p

This was the front of my house after a full day of shoveling this winter (we got another foot+ before the end of the winter).

17024671820_64a6375bb5.jpg


It's tough to tell, but the pile on the right back near the front steps was my height (6' 3").

By next morning it looked like this again...

18648518583_5538674719_z.jpg



I don't own a snow blower, it's all manual for me. I take a bit of stubborn male Scandinavian pride in my snow removal efforts, and actually enjoy the first 1 or 2 snowstorms of the year.

This year they were just relentless though. Multi-foot storm after multi-foot storm with no time in between to recover. We beat our all time snowfall record (winter of '95/'96) but it was worse than it sounds, because we had no snow at all until January 28th, so it all came at once. 110.6", almost all of it January 28th through end of March.

This winter had me thinking about moving back to Sweden.
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
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Yeah, and you pay how much for that? Try switching to a consumer line instead of a business line and tell me the same thing.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698763 said:
We live in a country where the will of the people means nothing, and wealthy special interests can buy whatever legislation they want...
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You see, money is speech. So they aren't really buying legislation, they just "talk" a lot. Since they "talk" a lot it's only natural that evenrually they agree.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698944 said:
This year they were just relentless though. Multi-foot storm after multi-foot storm with no time in between to recover. We beat our all time snowfall record (winter of '95/'96) but it was worse than it sounds, because we had no snow at all until January 28th, so it all came at once. 110.6", almost all of it January 28th through end of March.

This winter had me thinking about moving back to Sweden.
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You guys are pussies This past winter I got hit with 1.8 meters (~70 inches) in 24 hours.

https://storify.com/TheStarPhoenix/buffalo-buried
 
My issue with this is that while we are constantly treated to articles talking about how bad US internet speeds are, compared to the rest of the world, but then when actual data transfer rates are posted the US ranks in the top 3 or 4.

As for snow, here are a few shots from my area during the first, of many winter storms we had this past winter in Western NY.

BuffaloSnowStorm_111914_Twitter.jpg

635593639796326182-Still0212-00002.jpg

chicken-wings-car2.jpg

f2512bd345e77433e5a6d083cc100a49.jpg


Chrissa%20Brady%20-%20Depew_1416419974868_9688574_ver1.0_640_480.jpg
 
Don't get me wrong guys.

I'm not trying to compete with upstate New York (ormost of Canada for that matter)

I'm simply stating that most of Sweden is less bad than BostonBoston, so dont make weather dissuade you from moving for the Internet service :p

That being said, when you live somewhere your expectations are based on what is typical for the area. You are (hopefully) prepared to deal with what you are expecting. The same goes for state and municipal preparedness.

This is why 0.5" of snow in Atlanta has more impact than 2ft in Boston.

Things go wrong when you get uncharacteristic amounts of snow for an area. More than the city / state is prepared to remove, more than buildings were built to withstand and more than people are prepared to drive in

That amount is going to differ from place to place.
 
What I find mind blowing for me is we have two isp's in my town (in canada) shaw and telus. Out of no where telus just built a fiber network in my town. Not often you see an ISP do something progressive and competitive. Before the only difference was DSL or cable, both with the same prices of 25 Mbps @ $60 a month. Then telus does the fiber network and says oh we can give you a 100/20 connection for $70 with no contracts, install fees or rental fees for equip, once and a while under a blue moon the ISP's actually do something good for the consumer.
 
At least these people have Internet access. I'm on CenturyLink DSL, and they have oversold the capacity in my area so badly that the switch drops our connection all the time. If I reset the modem I can get it back for a while, but not for long. Sometimes for only 5 minutes. I've called customer service on multiple occasions, and while they are understanding and polite, it's been a month like this and it's not getting any better. The last time I called I got them to credit me for the month of June, so at least I'm not paying for something I'm not getting (which is called fraud), I still don't have a usable Internet connection. I'd switch if I had any other options, but I don't. There are no other service providers where I live and even satellite depends on CenturyLink for the uplink. :mad::mad::mad:
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
As for snow, here are a few shots from my area during the first, of many winter storms we had this past winter in Western NY.
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yeah couple hours south this was a normal winter 20 years ago :) but yeah rough about was ready to buy a dog sled but fedex wasn't delivering then.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698858 said:
Agreed, up to a point.

But of what benefit is paying for 150/150 service, if all I can do with it is pay my Verizon bill oon the verizon website? :p
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if you can't get to myspace then you have a serious problem... cancel and get dial up where you almost always get the advertised speeds.. if not call the phone company to fix your line.. which is probably Verizon :-p
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
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And apparently you don't mind having to pay through the nose for business lines to get that level of service or support...whereas the rest of the civilized world doesn't.
 
Skripka said:
And apparently you don't mind having to pay through the nose for business lines to get that level of service or support...whereas the rest of the civilized world doesn't.
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A classic Monty Python sketch indeed. Then again maybe the point was to demonstrate exactly how much ISPs in the US do suck and we didn't pick up on the lovely satire, who knows.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041698763 said:
While - IMHO - the reason we have internet service is exactly to access the data outside our ISP's networks, and as such any speeds should be measured at the worst choke point, ISP's have often taken the "ita outside our control" argument (even when they are to blame for poor peering by failing to expand on their side) leaving many people with great internet speeds, as long as they only want to access their own ISP's content :rolleyes:
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Yeah this, back in the early days of broadband with my spanking new 1.5Mbps ADSL connection with "AT&T" (actually the "local" company it used to be before the super-remerger) they gave you an "up to" disclaimer however they did guarantee 384Kbps (I think) as a minimum guarantee. Which at the time 15 or so years ago was fine for me, they also had a usenet server, and happy times all about, then one day the usenet server was slow, like 128kbps slow, and this wasn't just a drop in speed at a particular time there was a hard throttle on the usenet side of things. Of course they fired back with the 'well the guarantee is only inside our own network" meanwhile this is a usenet server they owned, this was their network. They never relented though, and of course used the knee jerk justification that "2% of the users are using 90% of the traffic" that was seems to be all the rage, which made me think, does everyone on your service only look at email? No way 2% uses 90% of all the data, besides who cares if it is true, how crappy is your infrastructure if 2% of your users could use up so much of the bandwidth that it causes problems.

It really is no surprise AT&T is at the bottom of food chain as far as speed goes, in most areas they're still relying on really old lines, old (slow) technology, sure there are other technology like VDSL2+ but that is really distance limited, which is why they've started pushing Uverse boxes in neighborhoods, and even then they don't let you maximize the potential of the technology in most Uverse neighborhoods 18Mbps is upper limit. They really do have an art about giving you just enough so you won't bitch too much.
 
GotNoRice said:
I'm tired of hearing about how "America's ISPs suck". I have Comcast Business. I can max out my download and/or upload speed at absolutely any time of day. Netflix, etc is certainly is not being throttled. I can download 5+ Terabytes a month and not get any complaints. When I call in for tech support, I almost never get put on hold, and when I need a truck to come out, it is usually here within an hour of hanging up the phone.
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The fact that you have to bring up the most basics of just a decent connection as something that goods show exactly the difference.
Why would you not be able to use you internet fully. Thats not remarkable that you can, it just brings you to an ok decent on par service.
my question is WHY do yuo need to call in tech support if your service is ok ? WHY do you need a truck comming out. that they do it fast is not even an ok. They made a mistake to being with it something you shouldn't even have to go through to begin with.

but yes if you just settle with everything and haven't tried how a modern society works. then it can be hard to understand why America ISPs sucks.

someone who lives on dog poop everyday, is also grateful for the one day he can eat a halfeaten McDonald burger from the trashbin.
but for people they are used to good homemade meals everyday that halfeaten trashed mcdonalds burger is not really that appetizing.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yeah this, back in the early days of broadband with my spanking new 1.5Mbps ADSL connection with "AT&T" (actually the "local" company it used to be before the super-remerger) they gave you an "up to" disclaimer however they did guarantee 384Kbps (I think) as a minimum guarantee. Which at the time 15 or so years ago was fine for me, they also had a usenet server, and happy times all about, then one day the usenet server was slow, like 128kbps slow, and this wasn't just a drop in speed at a particular time there was a hard throttle on the usenet side of things. Of course they fired back with the 'well the guarantee is only inside our own network" meanwhile this is a usenet server they owned, this was their network. They never relented though, and of course used the knee jerk justification that "2% of the users are using 90% of the traffic" that was seems to be all the rage, which made me think, does everyone on your service only look at email? No way 2% uses 90% of all the data, besides who cares if it is true, how crappy is your infrastructure if 2% of your users could use up so much of the bandwidth that it causes problems.

It really is no surprise AT&T is at the bottom of food chain as far as speed goes, in most areas they're still relying on really old lines, old (slow) technology, sure there are other technology like VDSL2+ but that is really distance limited, which is why they've started pushing Uverse boxes in neighborhoods, and even then they don't let you maximize the potential of the technology in most Uverse neighborhoods 18Mbps is upper limit. They really do have an art about giving you just enough so you won't bitch too much.
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My AT&T Roadrunner experience (~summer 2000?) was pretty good. It was advertised as 1.5mbit down, (384kb up? cant remember), but I always got decent pings to my CS servers, and downloads always hit 150kb/s which I was very happy with at the time.

Comparatively, the service available to me has gone down since. I get great service on paper, that doesn't always pan out in practice. I guess my expectations as I learn more have gone up as well creating a double whammy of disappointment.

After all, that was 15 bloody years ago.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Yeah this, back in the early days of broadband with my spanking new 1.5Mbps ADSL connection with "AT&T" (actually the "local" company it used to be before the super-remerger) they gave you an "up to" disclaimer however they did guarantee 384Kbps (I think) as a minimum guarantee. Which at the time 15 or so years ago was fine for me, they also had a usenet server, and happy times all about, then one day the usenet server was slow, like 128kbps slow, and this wasn't just a drop in speed at a particular time there was a hard throttle on the usenet side of things. Of course they fired back with the 'well the guarantee is only inside our own network" meanwhile this is a usenet server they owned, this was their network. They never relented though, and of course used the knee jerk justification that "2% of the users are using 90% of the traffic" that was seems to be all the rage, which made me think, does everyone on your service only look at email? No way 2% uses 90% of all the data, besides who cares if it is true, how crappy is your infrastructure if 2% of your users could use up so much of the bandwidth that it causes problems.

It really is no surprise AT&T is at the bottom of food chain as far as speed goes, in most areas they're still relying on really old lines, old (slow) technology, sure there are other technology like VDSL2+ but that is really distance limited, which is why they've started pushing Uverse boxes in neighborhoods, and even then they don't let you maximize the potential of the technology in most Uverse neighborhoods 18Mbps is upper limit. They really do have an art about giving you just enough so you won't bitch too much.
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If you're in SF there are reasons as to why DSL / Uverse speeds suck. One is the local city government but mainly it's at&t cheap ass fault. Some of the COs still have really old hardware still setup and running ...9th Ave + Steiner Street all have outdated shit running in them and what new stuff is there is maxed out.
 
Ragenrok said:
What I find mind blowing for me is we have two isp's in my town (in canada) shaw and telus. Out of no where telus just built a fiber network in my town. Not often you see an ISP do something progressive and competitive. Before the only difference was DSL or cable, both with the same prices of 25 Mbps @ $60 a month. Then telus does the fiber network and says oh we can give you a 100/20 connection for $70 with no contracts, install fees or rental fees for equip, once and a while under a blue moon the ISP's actually do something good for the consumer.
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Actually they have, and regularly do things that are good for the comsumer, otherwise we would all still be paying $20-30 a month for dialup service, I think it's just that consumers, especially in the US, have become super sensitive and will go on an anti-business rant they moment they suspect something isn't 100% as they wish it to be.

Another large part of the fault for this belongs to the leftists who constantly promote class warfare, mainly to distract from their own actions in office.


redrage said:
yeah couple hours south this was a normal winter 20 years ago :) but yeah rough about was ready to buy a dog sled but fedex wasn't delivering then.
Click to expand...

I agree, although even back 20 years ago the big storms didn't start as early as they did last year, although I can remember spending many an Easter morning shoveling the driveway since it was still snowing.
 
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