Steam Machines Are Coming This Fall

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
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You just gotta’ love these trade shows that finally give you a look at products you have heard about forever, but have never seen. The GDC is fulfilling many fantasies this week by showcasing seven of the Steam Machines you will be seeing on the shelves this year in time for the holiday shopping season.

Steam Machines. Maybe you've heard of them. They're Valve's oft-talked about, rarely seen in the wild solution for streaming PC games to the fancy HDTV in your living room.
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That's cool, I would like to know the detailed specs of all those out of curiosity.
 
Had one for the past 2 years minus the SteamOS obviously. What's the big deal?
 
So the prices for these specs will have to drop 30% by November.

Bit daft really showing so much spec for nearly 9 months of wait.

I see a lot of change before then.
 
Kalabalana said:
You would prefer the win 8/10 box over a custom linux OS designed for HTPC gaming?

I am confused -
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Running Steam in Big Picture mode is essentially the same thing/experience you get running Steam OS. Add Windows to the mix and now you can also run all the games that aren't yet ported/never will be ported to Steam OS. You are on [H], how did you not already know that :confused:
 
Hopefully I can drop windows soon for games.
 
Kalabalana said:
You would prefer the win 8/10 box over a custom linux OS designed for HTPC gaming?

I am confused -
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What advantage will it have over Windows? I can see many disadvantages:

- Steam only games
- Limited peripheral support
- Limited software

May as well buy a PS4.
 
Kalabalana said:
You would prefer the win 8/10 box over a custom linux OS designed for HTPC gaming?

I am confused -
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Uhhhh, yeah. Windows has the biggest media library ever, all my existing library will function on it, all the mods for the windows version likewise just work, it has superior performance to linux thanks to far more mature drivers, and all my other apps I may want to install on my HTPC will work just fine and I don't have to hope there are reasonable Linux counterparts.

Why anyone would prefer Linux, and have yet another hurdle for developers to jump over, is beyond me.

If the excuse is that it offers a better 10 foot interface, how is that different from the same Steam skin running on top of Windows?
 
eh, I am sure they'll get better overall in a few years
 
I gotta give Valve credit for what they've pulled off so far with Steam Machines.

They managed to convince entire swaths of the PC gaming community that their hobby is threatened, and that the only people capable of saving PC gaming are Valve. The tools of salvation that will be bestowed upon the congregation? Linux gaming consoles, VR and touchpads. Upon Valve's revelation of the path to deliverance, the devoted masses sing the praises of their God and Savior, Gaben (Peace and blessings be upon his name).

How does Valve justify their scatter shot hardware initiative? What is the dastardly threat that will destroy PC gaming? The Windows app store. A place where Mom can download a weather app without getting a virus. Clearly, this is a menace to PC gamers everywhere. I mean, look at the damage it's done thus far - PC gaming is on the decline and Steam's user numbers are plummeting. Oh wait, the complete opposite is happening and MS has publicly acknowledged doing a shitty job when it comes to supporting gaming on Windows while promising to do better.

You may feel that the religious references I invoked in the second paragraph are a bit over the top, but we're talking about people whose fandom is so pervasive that they openly refer to the CEO of Valve as a deity. Combine the people who worship Valve with the second biggest Internet religion, Linux, and you have a recipe for the most irritating evangelists on Earth.

Ducman69 said:
Why anyone would prefer Linux, and have yet another hurdle for developers to jump over, is beyond me.
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It's all about the inflation of the user's ego. Similar to products from Whole Foods or a Prius car, it caters to a buyer who wants to feel as though they're fighting the good fight by simply going about their daily lives. You're not just eating a sandwich, you're making the world a better place by refusing to engage in the consumption of GMOs. You're not just driving to pick up your kids from school, you're saving the polar bears.

With Steam Machines, you're not just playing a poor performing and buggy Linux port, you're actively working towards a greater good. With every button press and touchpad swipe, you're helping to destroy the evil M$ anti-gamer conspiracy, man.
Flogger23m said:
What advantage will it have over Windows?
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Nothing.
 
^ Oh the salt is strong with this one. Funny how people were saying here not even that long ago that SteamOS and Steam Machines were "dead"... "abandoned".. and now all of a sudden they seem to be getting very nervous- "oh shit maybe they really are happening".

I'd say that if they're such a non-factor and a non-threat, then it's safe" to just stick head in sand and ignore them. Just like Microsoft did with Google and Apple a decade ago.
 
crusty_juggler said:
It's all about the inflation of the user's ego. Similar to products from Whole Foods or a Prius car, it caters to a buyer who wants to feel as though they're fighting the good fight by simply going about their daily lives. You're not just eating a sandwich, you're making the world a better place by refusing to engage in the consumption of GMOs. You're not just driving to pick up your kids from school, you're saving the polar bears.
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Technically it's about controlling the ecosystem.

#1 Don't have to deal with Microsoft with pricing.
#2 Don't have to worry about Window update breaking something.
#3 Don't have to worry about viruses.
#4 Lots of control over the OS, as Valve has shown with Vulkan driver.

But I've seen those Steam Machines are they're awfully over priced. Half of them are using laptop parts. If Valve is trying to appeal to the console gamer then a $400 Steam Machine needs to at least equal that of the PS4.

The best machine so far is the IBuyPower’s SBX with a AMD Athlon X4 840 with a Radeon R7 250X. And for whatever reason 4GB of ram. I could build a far better machine for the price of $469 and install Linux Mint. If the graphics card was a 750 Ti and the system had 8GB I would be Ok with it.

Alienware’s Steam Machine with Core i3 processor and 860M is laptop parts. Gigabyte Brix Pro with Intel Core i7-4770R is a laptop part using Iris Pro graphics.

CyberPowerPC's Syber Steam Machine is the best so far because it at least has a AMD 840 with R9 270 for $500. Sill 4GB of ram but at least it could compete with the PS4.
 
The bridge between pc & consoles continues to blur every year. Is there any difference between steam machine and microATX pc? It runs open-source linux while most microATX users go for windows. That is it..

Steam Machine is simply an idea to take down the consoles. Linux is faster and OPENSOURCE while consoles require special licenses and agreements between Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo and the developers. There also might be more nonsense, licensing fees & politics with other parties being involved for different things. Just so much BS involved before the game ends up on the market.

Valve can skip over much of that. The OS is open-source so there is already stuff out there from other people that the developers can use. They also have Source engine at their disposal. Source 2 engine also coming out soon: Source 2 Engine Announcement

Remember, games made in Linux can also be quickly converted to windows easily without losing much at all. Valve can continue their monopoly of steam for PC and generate revenue from multiple platforms now.

Valve is worth $3 billion right now and this might double their revenue within a couple years. They will challenge the consoles. Makes me wonder what the next generation of consoles will look like..
 
A massive failure scheduled for this Fall. I posted in another forum asking who are supposed to be the target market for these things. The answer was basically console gamers who want to play PC games, but primarily wish to play them on their TV, and do not wish to have to learn anything about PCs. A good target audience, but one the current Steam Machine system completely fails to target.

Before I asked my question, I did not look at the various configurations/prices available. I just watched a Totalbiscuit video on it earlier. Even before he stated his opinion, I started laughing at the configurations/prices he started pointing out.

The target audience is people who do not wish to learn about PCs in order to play PC games on their TV. But the first thing necessary to NOT get an overpriced gimped steam machine (and in turn tell all your friends, who were potential steam-machine-customers, how bad it is relative to how much you paid for it) is to LEARN ABOUT PCs.

As TB mentioned, there is going to have to be a strict and more specific rating system so people know exactly how much gaming power they are getting for the price. Without that, these are going to go nowhere fast.
 
The only interesting thing they announced was the Steam Link, though it looks like the NVIDIA Shield console thingy is probably a lot better (albeit more expensive).
 
GearChoices said:
The target audience is people who do not wish to learn about PCs in order to play PC games on their TV. But the first thing necessary to NOT get an overpriced gimped steam machine (and in turn tell all your friends, who were potential steam-machine-customers, how bad it is relative to how much you paid for it) is to LEARN ABOUT PCs.
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This is more the fault of the hardware market and no Valves. Valve is doing a lot of things for free to get the market moving. The OS and drivers a long with support for peripherals. They're even making their own controller and Oculus Rift to complete the package. But anyone who's ever bought or built a gaming PC will tell you that "GAMING" can turn normal computer hardware into overpriced electronics.

I was hoping that Valve could corral the hardware manufacturers into sane prices but that doesn't seem to be the case.
As TB mentioned, there is going to have to be a strict and more specific rating system so people know exactly how much gaming power they are getting for the price. Without that, these are going to go nowhere fast.
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Valve still has lots of time to apply a rating system for these machines. It could be as easy as something like Windows Experience Index. But as much as I like to agree with Total Biscuit, the thing is that nobody goes by a rating system for everything we buy.

Do we buy cell phones based on a rating system?
Do we buy consoles on a rating system?
Do we even use a rating system for computers in general?

No we don't. We go by review websites and benchmarks. More likely we go by a reviewers opinion more than anything. Which is better Xbox One or PS4? Console owners could debate this for hours, even though we know better. The problem is the hardware that's vague like the laptop hardware. What the hell is a custom 860m? Unlike console we could at least benchmark this hardware and eventually find out.

But likely we're going to rate the games and not the hardware. Valve could have a handy guide that shows what games are playable on which Steam Machine.

jwcalla said:
The only interesting thing they announced was the Steam Link, though it looks like the NVIDIA Shield console thingy is probably a lot better (albeit more expensive).
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You serious? IT'S A ANDROID GAME CONSOLE! The way things are right now Linux has a far larger AAA titles available than Android. The only thing going for Shield consoles is the GRID service and that's not a positive feature to look forward to.

Nvidia needs to either give up ARM+Android gaming and focus on x86+Linux. Nvidia has some die hard fans but I doubt they're that devoted.
 
Ashbringer said:
You serious? IT'S A ANDROID GAME CONSOLE! The way things are right now Linux has a far larger AAA titles available than Android. The only thing going for Shield consoles is the GRID service and that's not a positive feature to look forward to.

Nvidia needs to either give up ARM+Android gaming and focus on x86+Linux. Nvidia has some die hard fans but I doubt they're that devoted.
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Yep. I dont see Shield having any tremendous uptake, sadly. I would've much rather seen Nvidia try partnering with Valve on Steam Machines the way HTC did for the VR headset. With AMD components driving both Xbone & PS4, seems like it would've been an opportunity for Nvidia to either supply the GPU components at cost or build the whole system end to end. Although doing that would've meant having to share backend (software sales) with Nvidia, which Valve maybe wasn't ready to do.

Not to mention I could see Nvidia demanding in a hypothetical partnership situation that Steam Machines be Nvidia exclusive, to which Valve would have also said no because the whole point of them is to move away from all the lock-in and exclusivity bullshit of the status quo.

So here we are with a free-for-all where boutique PC builders are simply seeing "Steam Machines" and a listing in the steam store as a free advertising channel for their existing PC's. For as tightly focused as Valve has been with the rest of this new ecosystem (low level API, controller, VR headset to exact specs, streaming box), the marketing message on the systems really needs a major rethink. I'm sure things will change between now and November and will be tightened up, but Valve has to have known that allowing Falcon Northwest to advertise a $5000 box would mean the blogosphere running with it "Derp $5000 Steem Macheenz is this Valve's answer to MS & Sony?"
 
But all they are doing is reinventing the wheel and creating yet another proprietary platform to split up the gaming market. In essence, they are creating another console, when what Steam is known for is PCs.

Yes, it has its own controller... which is a reinvented XBox 360 controller, something people were already using on the PC when desired.

Yes, its going to have a VR headset, just like the Oculus headset already in the works for PC (among others).

Its not going to provide a single consistent standard, which is something consolers seem to like, and instead will come in a variety of flavors including DIY which again is reinventing the Windows PC.

So we are seeing nothing new brought to the table, while requiring almost all of the same sacrifices of adopting a proprietary Xbox or Playstation.

What PC gaming was lacking was a turn-key Windows based PC that only exists in one form-factor for simplicity's sake, sold by Valve, that any grandma or five year old could just turn on and use. Just like consoles, it would be subsidized by the fact that Valve gets a whopping 25% cut of all games sold, and there would be virtually no development cost needed since they have already produced and support Steam Big Picture. This could have been something that even competent PC gamers could buy for convenience sake, have the option to exit to desktop of W8/W10 if they choose, and install any other games they wanted from their library that aren't on Steam or game mods or other apps they found useful for a HTPC (to say switch to Plex if they preferred it for managing their movie/TV library for example). But nope.
 
Ducman69 said:
Yes, it has its own controller... which is a reinvented XBox 360 controller, something people were already using on the PC when desired.
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It's a totally different controller. We're talking about controllers that use haptic instead of thumb sticks.
Yes, its going to have a VR headset, just like the Oculus headset already in the works for PC (among others).
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Oculus is owned by Facebook and you know how people feel about that. Also where is Oculus?
Its not going to provide a single consistent standard, which is something consolers seem to like, and instead will come in a variety of flavors including DIY which again is reinventing the Windows PC.
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Consolers don't want standards they want convenience. Nothing about the Xbox or PS4 is standard. A closed ecosystem with a walled garden but that's not a standard.

To achieve a standard on console requires lots of people to buy machines. If people don't buy enough machines then why make games for them? Until a decent balance is struck in hardware sales and software availability, you don't have a standard. You have early adopters.
So we are seeing nothing new brought to the table, while requiring almost all of the same sacrifices of adopting a proprietary Xbox or Playstation.
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Except a few big differences.

You can go from Windows to Linux to Steam Machine to play your games. With consoles you go from Xbox One to Xbox One. There's a greater chance to find a computer and log into Steam than I have finding a Xbox One and logging in and download my game.

Steam has sales and lots of them. And Steam isn't the only source to get your games. Even Nvidia's Grid will supply you a Steam key for every game you buy from them. It's extremely flexible.

You have the option to expand into true PC gaming. If it tickles your fancy you could go and build a monster gaming rig. The most console gamers have is the ability to mod the case and that voids warranty.

Iron-Man-Xbox-360-Slim-Mod_2.jpg

What PC gaming was lacking was a turn-key Windows based PC that only exists in one form-factor for simplicity's sake, sold by Valve, that any grandma or five year old could just turn on and use. Just like consoles, it would be subsidized by the fact that Valve gets a whopping 25% cut of all games sold, and there would be virtually no development cost needed since they have already produced and support Steam Big Picture. This could have been something that even competent PC gamers could buy for convenience sake, have the option to exit to desktop of W8/W10 if they choose, and install any other games they wanted from their library that aren't on Steam or game mods or other apps they found useful for a HTPC (to say switch to Plex if they preferred it for managing their movie/TV library for example). But nope.
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The problem you fail to see is Windows itself. Also Plex is on Linux and you could switch to the Gnome UI in SteamOS. I've listed the reasons but my point was that Valve has no control over Windows. Sure you could do everything you just said but could you imagine the audience that Valve is targeting with a volatile Windows machine? One wrong move and the machine is either virus infected or some problem that insists to minimize your game to get your attention. My favorite, lets reboot your machine to apply updates while you were playing a fucking game.

Just realize that Windows is not an environment you want people who know nothing about computers to be using. Windows in the wrong hands could easily turn into a mess.
steamos-add-remove-software.png
 
Ashbringer said:
Valve still has lots of time to apply a rating system for these machines. It could be as easy as something like Windows Experience Index. But as much as I like to agree with Total Biscuit, the thing is that nobody goes by a rating system for everything we buy.
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Ashbringer said:
But likely we're going to rate the games and not the hardware. Valve could have a handy guide that shows what games are playable on which Steam Machine.
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If this is just a preview and they are still working on the major details, OK they may have a chance. TB mentioned something similar to your suggestion, except he suggested it give a list of ratings for the machine saying what games it was capable of playing, at what preset graphics level, at what resolution, and at what average FPS.
 
Ashbringer said:
The problem you fail to see is Windows itself. Also Plex is on Linux and you could switch to the Gnome UI in SteamOS. I've listed the reasons but my point was that Valve has no control over Windows. Sure you could do everything you just said but could you imagine the audience that Valve is targeting with a volatile Windows machine? One wrong move and the machine is either virus infected or some problem that insists to minimize your game to get your attention. My favorite, lets reboot your machine to apply updates while you were playing a fucking game.
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The Xbox runs Windows 8. And since when can you not control how Windows updates are pushed with your custom image?

I think you're confusing the idea with having users boot into Windows desktop, and I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it would boot up skinned absolutely identical to the Linux GUI, just that the backbone would be windows that has a huge game library and far better drivers and support, instead of a Linux one. Having an advanced option to exit out of that GUI, would only be used by people that know what they are doing and you can put warnings on top.

Lets say you do screw up your system with some noob that finds the advanced option of exiting the Valve GUI and somehow installs malware. You give him a simple factory reset option or reset disk even, and it simply reinstalls the factory slipstreamed image.

Again, the Xbox is in fact running on Windows, there's no reason Steam can't.

But I think we know the reason. If Steam sells a subsidized platform that people can mod themselves or exit the GUI and buy games from whoever has it cheapest, then they are bypassing the Steam storefront... and they are being greedy and don't want to allow that. Its the whole reason that Microsoft did such an awkward install of Windows 8, as otherwise people could more easily bypass copy protection and download games off the internet, bypassing Microsoft who wants their 25% cut of the flesh. This shortsighted greed will cost them IMO, as I certainly wouldn't be one to buy one.
 
Ashbringer said:
But I've seen those Steam Machines are they're awfully over priced. Half of them are using laptop parts. If Valve is trying to appeal to the console gamer then a $400 Steam Machine needs to at least equal that of the PS4.
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But the Falcon NW Steam Box (Tiki) is only $2000-$5000! :D It's a bargain I'm sure.... not. :p

There are some cheaper ones out there with a better balance of parts but still.....

It will be interesting to see where they end up with this, but I have zero interest in owning one atm.
 
Ashbringer said:
You serious? IT'S A ANDROID GAME CONSOLE! The way things are right now Linux has a far larger AAA titles available than Android. The only thing going for Shield consoles is the GRID service and that's not a positive feature to look forward to.

Nvidia needs to either give up ARM+Android gaming and focus on x86+Linux. Nvidia has some die hard fans but I doubt they're that devoted.
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I compared it to Steam Link. Steam Link is just a streaming receiver, right? And doesn't the NVIDIA Shield also work for streaming PC games? But Steam Link is 1080p @ 60 fps and the NVIDIA Shield is 4k @ 60 fps, so am I not right that, in terms of technical ability, the NVIDIA Shield is a better streaming solution?
 
I'm beginning to think that Steam Machines are DOA because Valve refuses to bring anything innovative to the table.

The whole company is giving me the "dysfunctional" vibe. I've been thinking, "well maybe they really are working on something interesting and will just announce it soon............" .... but they never do.

SteamOS is basically no different than just stock Debian.

They announced Source 2 and demo'd it on a 5-year-old game with old-ass graphics assets and absolutely nothing interesting came of it.

Steam Machines are just run-of-the-mill expensive PCs.

See what I'm saying here? What, exactly, are people at Valve doing other than cashing paychecks?
 
My big problem is so far I have not seen any steam machine offer what I would consider a great balanced gaming system for a reasonable price. The type of system any of us would build. I am also very disturbed by the stupid shit valve is allowing that is similar to apple. Look at the alienware steam machine page it was a 2GB NVidia gpu on all 4 machine configurations. Really WTF is a 2 GB NVidia GPU? Only the most ignorant of consumer users refer to a gpu by how much ram it has.We are also seeing a lot of people just saying crap like i5 or i3, what good is the cpu without the model. Maybe you put an i5 540 in it. After all this one can only say where is the cost savings we were supposed to get by switching to Linux?
 
crusty_juggler said:
How does Valve justify their scatter shot hardware initiative? What is the dastardly threat that will destroy PC gaming? The Windows app store. A place where Mom can download a weather app without getting a virus. Clearly, this is a menace to PC gamers everywhere. I mean, look at the damage it's done thus far - PC gaming is on the decline and Steam's user numbers are plummeting. Oh wait, the complete opposite is happening and MS has publicly acknowledged doing a shitty job when it comes to supporting gaming on Windows while promising to do better.
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I guess you are unaware that the Windows App Store is full of the type of scams you want to keep your mom away from.
 
GearChoices said:
A massive failure scheduled for this Fall. I posted in another forum asking who are supposed to be the target market for these things. The answer was basically console gamers who want to play PC games, but primarily wish to play them on their TV, and do not wish to have to learn anything about PCs. A good target audience, but one the current Steam Machine system completely fails to target.

Before I asked my question, I did not look at the various configurations/prices available. I just watched a Totalbiscuit video on it earlier. Even before he stated his opinion, I started laughing at the configurations/prices he started pointing out.

The target audience is people who do not wish to learn about PCs in order to play PC games on their TV. But the first thing necessary to NOT get an overpriced gimped steam machine (and in turn tell all your friends, who were potential steam-machine-customers, how bad it is relative to how much you paid for it) is to LEARN ABOUT PCs.

As TB mentioned, there is going to have to be a strict and more specific rating system so people know exactly how much gaming power they are getting for the price. Without that, these are going to go nowhere fast.
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Nobody is taking away your ability to make a custom gaming PC your way. And no, the world is not 7 billion clones of you.
 
Ducman69 said:
The Xbox runs Windows 8. And since when can you not control how Windows updates are pushed with your custom image?
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Xbox runs a custom not under your control Windows 8. I can't minimize Xbox UI to download and install Steam or Origin. :D

Controlling updates is hard to do on Windows cause you have to keep it constantly up to date while making sure it doesn't brick the machines. Wasn't there an update that caused a bunch of Windows 8 machines trouble recently? Who says being a procrastinator is a bad thing?

Lets say you do screw up your system with some noob that finds the advanced option of exiting the Valve GUI and somehow installs malware. You give him a simple factory reset option or reset disk even, and it simply reinstalls the factory slipstreamed image.
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Valve plans to do this with SteamOS but you generally don't want to do this too often. Lose all your games, saves, and select data due to malware. Not gonna be a lot of happy people.
But I think we know the reason. If Steam sells a subsidized platform that people can mod themselves or exit the GUI and buy games from whoever has it cheapest, then they are bypassing the Steam storefront... and they are being greedy and don't want to allow that. Its the whole reason that Microsoft did such an awkward install of Windows 8, as otherwise people could more easily bypass copy protection and download games off the internet, bypassing Microsoft who wants their 25% cut of the flesh. This shortsighted greed will cost them IMO, as I certainly wouldn't be one to buy one.
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Spoilers... duh!

But that's generally a problem with modern computing. Android iOS Windows all have issues with everyone trying to take a piece of the pie. This wasn't an issue until recently.
 
jwcalla said:
SteamOS is basically no different than just stock Debian.
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Except unlike Debian you can swap graphic cards without the need to do any driver installation. In Debian if you swap a graphics card from AMD to Nvidia you're still using open source drivers. In SteamOS it will properly install Catalyst or Geforce drivers depending on the graphics card it detects. Which it pretty nifty when you think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi6VZ0WXBsE
 
Ashbringer said:
Except unlike Debian you can swap graphic cards without the need to do any driver installation. In Debian if you swap a graphics card from AMD to Nvidia you're still using open source drivers. In SteamOS it will properly install Catalyst or Geforce drivers depending on the graphics card it detects. Which it pretty nifty when you think about it.
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SteamOS is going to need a bigger selling point than that.
 
DPI said:
^ Oh the salt is strong with this one. Funny how people were saying here not even that long ago that SteamOS and Steam Machines were "dead"... "abandoned".. and now all of a sudden they seem to be getting very nervous- "oh shit maybe they really are happening".

I'd say that if they're such a non-factor and a non-threat, then it's safe" to just stick head in sand and ignore them. Just like Microsoft did with Google and Apple a decade ago.
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My thoughts as well. If Windows lovers want to continue to support Windows, go for it. It won't last much longer. Valve knows what they are doing with Steam, and SteamOS is going to be a game changer, but not overnight. Valve is in the business of planning long-term... Unlike most of the commenters here.
 
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