Mt. Gox Owner: “I Am Not Dread Pirate Roberts”

Honestly, it doesn't matter which one of these guys is behind Silk Road, I think they both deserve to be in jail.

Today in the ongoing Silk Road trial, Defense Attorney Joshua Dratel and his client, Defendant Ross Ulbricht, made another bold proclamation. A day after the defense stated that Ulbricht was not Dread Pirate Roberts, they pursued a line of questioning suggesting who actually controlled the online drug marketplace: Mark Karpeles, the owner of the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange.

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His name is Ryan.

FBI should be in jail for stealing Bitcoins and selling them for profit before the trial even began.

We have a pathetic fantasy state where everything the government does is ethical and nonviolent exchange between consenting adults is evil.

aardvark sandwich said:

FBI should be in jail for stealing Bitcoins and selling them for profit before the trial even began.

We have a pathetic fantasy state where everything the government does is ethical and nonviolent exchange between consenting adults is evil.

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Very true.

aardvark sandwich said:

FBI should be in jail for stealing Bitcoins and selling them for profit before the trial even began.

We have a pathetic fantasy state where everything the government does is ethical and nonviolent exchange between consenting adults is evil.

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^^ Civil asset forfeiture.
As outlined in mainstream newspapers like Washington Post and NY Times.

Look it up sometime.

aardvark sandwich said:

^^ Civil asset forfeiture.
As outlined in mainstream newspapers like Washington Post and NY Times.

Look it up sometime.

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Don't need to as I'm not clueless as how the law applies or doesn't in this specific case...by all means feel free to read up specifics in the actual case sometime as well.

Can I just keep looking at your cat pictures instead?

aardvark sandwich said:

Can I just keep looking at your cat pictures instead?

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Its your fetish so go ahead...

aardvark sandwich said:

FBI should be in jail for stealing Bitcoins and selling them for profit before the trial even began.

We have a pathetic fantasy state where everything the government does is ethical and nonviolent exchange between consenting adults is evil.

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It's that little law that allows the government to take property if there are drugs involved. They can take the proceeds of drug related offenses (cars, yachts, houses, money) and auction it off to fund the war on drugs. It's done often.


Without naming specifics, I had a client that had his house raided. Within they found about $100k in cash which they seized under drug laws. During the trial process, certain evidence was thrown out because the police violated his civil rights in procuring that evidence. They were supposed to give the money back. They returned $15k. Kept $85k. Lovely system.

Spidey329 said:

It's that little law that allows the government to take property if there are drugs involved. They can take the proceeds of drug related offenses (cars, yachts, houses, money) and auction it off to fund the war on drugs. It's done often.


Without naming specifics, I had a client that had his house raided. Within they found about $100k in cash which they seized under drug laws. During the trial process, certain evidence was thrown out because the police violated his civil rights in procuring that evidence. They were supposed to give the money back. They returned $15k. Kept $85k. Lovely system.

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That is dumb. Evidence shouldn't just be thrown out, ever. We really need to remove the barricades in evidence collection, arrest, and the seizure or property so we can get people like that into a prison where they can get the right kinda institutionalized help they need to return to society as useful members instead of angry libertarians.

Spidey329 said:

It's that little law that allows the government to take property if there are drugs involved. They can take the proceeds of drug related offenses (cars, yachts, houses, money) and auction it off to fund the war on drugs. It's done often.


Without naming specifics, I had a client that had his house raided. Within they found about $100k in cash which they seized under drug laws. During the trial process, certain evidence was thrown out because the police violated his civil rights in procuring that evidence. They were supposed to give the money back. They returned $15k. Kept $85k. Lovely system.

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Yes, they actually send out warning in Canada to citizens visiting the US, it instructs them to not carry cash so the "local police" don't "steal" them basically. It's a known issue to travelers abroad nowadays, a third world style corruption problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/americ...rge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

'Authorities claim it’s legal, but some prosecutors and judges have called it what it is: abuse. In any case, it’s a nasty American reality.'

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https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...rs-will-pull-them-over-seize-their-cash.shtml

The findings are astonishing/sickening. Over the last 13 years, nearly 62,000 cash seizures have been made by law enforcement officers, resulting in a $2.5 billion haul. And that's just the cash. Depending on local laws, people who have had their cash seized may also lose their vehicles, houses and access to any bank accounts.

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I like his lawyer's Princess Bride defense. Probably won't work, but good for lulz @ thinking it might.

pcjunkie said:

Don't need to as I'm not clueless as how the law applies or doesn't in this specific case...by all means feel free to read up specifics in the actual case sometime as well.

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There is no tinfoil hat conspiracy... It's not unreasonable to believe the government shouldn't be selling property seized due to breaking the law until the owner is found guilty.

While the evidence in some cases might be overwhelming... there are many cases it is not.

Making laws and regulation on "he's obviously guilty" is arrogant. History has shown over and over that "its obvious" can be misleading and is abused. That is not even factoring in media today which rarely is even close to "unbias" no matter the leaning.

As to the OP... This is hilarious... I was setup by the other biggest named bitcoin thief!

CreepyUncleGoogle said:

That is dumb. Evidence shouldn't just be thrown out, ever. We really need to remove the barricades in evidence collection, arrest, and the seizure or property so we can get people like that into a prison where they can get the right kinda institutionalized help they need to return to society as useful members instead of angry libertarians.

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I have a love/hate relationship with your posts CUG, I just never know what to say...

dandirk said:

There is no tinfoil hat conspiracy... It's not unreasonable to believe the government shouldn't be selling property seized due to breaking the law until the owner is found guilty.

While the evidence in some cases might be overwhelming... there are many cases it is not.

Making laws and regulation on "he's obviously guilty" is arrogant. History has shown over and over that "its obvious" can be misleading and is abused. That is not even factoring in media today which rarely is even close to "unbias" no matter the leaning.

As to the OP... This is hilarious... I was setup by the other biggest named bitcoin thief!

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Yes it is...the guy is a known thief without this latest conspiracy. And the law is on the FBI's side. #dealwithit

pcjunkie said:

Yes it is...the guy is a known thief without this latest conspiracy. And the law is on the FBI's side. #dealwithit

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OK so basically what you are saying is that the court system is not needed. If the police say they have evidence and put it in the paper and everyone "knows" someone is guilty then they should just be sent to jail... That is your evidence, your reasoning... he is a "known" crook. lol

I never said ANYTHING about the FBI breaking the law. I just said it a reasonable belief that if someone accuses you of a crime in which the penalty is asset forfeiture. Those assets should be returned if you are found not guilty aka innocent aka didn't do the crime. How is that a tinfoil hat, conspiracy? Sound very reasonable to me, punished only if guilty.

Yes I must be crazy for believing that punishments should only be handed out after being found guilty. I must be a nut.

dandirk said:

OK so basically what you are saying is that the court system is not needed. If the police say they have evidence and put it in the paper and everyone "knows" someone is guilty then they should just be sent to jail... That is your evidence, your reasoning... he is a "known" crook. lol

I never said ANYTHING about the FBI breaking the law. I just said it a reasonable belief that if someone accuses you of a crime in which the penalty is asset forfeiture. Those assets should be returned if you are found not guilty aka innocent aka didn't do the crime. How is that a tinfoil hat, conspiracy? Sound very reasonable to me, punished only if guilty.

Yes I must be crazy for believing that punishments should only be handed out after being found guilty. I must be a nut.

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I was referring to your quote that quoted me referring to AA's post that the FBI is outright stealing...don't care what else you were babbling about. Take it up with the law if you think its wrong.

Wierdo said:

Yes, they actually send out warning in Canada to citizens visiting the US, it instructs them to not carry cash so the "local police" don't "steal" them basically. It's a known issue to travelers abroad nowadays, a third world style corruption problem.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/americ...rge-you-but-they-ll-grab-your-money-1.2760736

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...rs-will-pull-them-over-seize-their-cash.shtml

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First off, CBC is a news company, they aren't the Canadian government . And second off, that article is fantasy-land propaganda by liberals and Clinton News Network (CNN) affiliates aimed at falsely terrifying people (primarily minorities, as they kept harping on) into an anti-government fervor. In the real world, nothing like they made up actually happens bar very rare instances of a rogue cop, and there are bad apples in any line of work who then get weeded out.

The actual article is absolutely appalling, reeling off tons of random unrelated "statistics" which they don't cite the studies for (let alone what context they were intended under), making leaps of logic that fall flat on their faces, and describing scenarios no person would ever actually find themselves in. I particularly enjoyed laughing at how they kept putting "(minority)" next to as many things as they could think of during the article, and going on about how a cop is going to randomly pull you over and then forcibly search your vehicle/interrogate you (in real life, if that ever happened to you (which you're more likely to be struck by lightning than that), your course of action would simply be to say "no" to a search of your vehicle and be on your merry way).

This sort of libelous article frankly is not much different than terrorist propaganda is overseas, and is an absolute shame to see published.

dandirk said:

I have a love/hate relationship with your posts CUG, I just never know what to say...

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Aw, don't take me too seriously or anything. I'm only here to have fun and poke fun at stuff. If there's anything really bad, I won't at all get offended if you yell at me or ignore me.

GoldenTiger said:

First off, CBC is a news company, they aren't the Canadian government

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And the sky is blue.

The news agency is reporting the guidelines of the Canadian government to its citizens. It's on the first frickin' line:

On its official website, the Canadian government informs its citizens...

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GoldenTiger said:

. And second off, that article is fantasy-land propaganda by liberals and Clinton News Network (CNN) affiliates aimed at falsely terrifying people (primarily minorities, as they kept harping on) into an anti-government fervor. In the real world, nothing like they made up actually happens bar very rare instances of a rogue cop, and there are bad apples in any line of work who then get weeded out.

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I'm sure people will take your word for it vs actual research results and actual guidelines written by our closest allies. It's the job of responsible citizens to stay vigilant on such matters.

It's not some secret that people have their property seized before the trial even begins, common practice, oftentimes they can't even pay for their defense because of that.

Guilty until proven innocent? That's very authoritarian if you ask me.

Wierdo said:

And the sky is blue.

The news agency is reporting the guidelines of the Canadian government to its citizens. It's on the first frickin' line:

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You didn't even read what you linked, did you?

On its official website, the Canadian government informs its citizens that “there is no limit to the amount of money that you may legally take into or out of the United States.” Nonetheless, it adds, banking in the U.S. can be difficult for non-residents, so Canadians shouldn’t carry large amounts of cash.

That last bit is excellent advice, but for an entirely different reason than the one Ottawa cites.

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Read the first paragraph. Then read the bold italicized part. The Canadian government doesn't say a single thing about limiting the amount you're carrying in due to cops or government seizures. It simply says that banking could be difficult. Everything in that second sentence you're clinging to so dearly is the article writer him/herself (I didn't bother seeing which gender) just essentially possibly making crap up in an opinionated statement.

Not saying that it's necessarily all bullcrap, but what the part that you're trying to say is supported by this article is bullcrap. Also the second article you linked is based on the first one you linked... so essentially neither of them support what you're saying.

StoleMyOwnCar said:

You didn't even read what you linked, did you?

Read the first paragraph. Then read the bold italicized part. The Canadian government doesn't say a single thing about limiting the amount you're carrying in due to cops or government seizures. It simply says that banking could be difficult.

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Ah I see what you're saying, fair enough. Originally I ran across the news on Arstechnica, the summary of the topic there was imho better but didn't have success google for it sadly.

My beef is with denying that the practice exists when it's well documented, but I will concede that the wording on the gov page leaves room for interpretation.

More on the practice from google:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/?hpid=z3

* Only a sixth of the seizures were legally challenged, in part because of the costs of legal action against the government. But in 41 percent of cases — 4,455 — where there was a challenge, the government agreed to return money. The appeals process took more than a year in 40 percent of those cases and often required owners of the cash to sign agreements not to sue police over the seizures.

* Hundreds of state and local departments and drug task forces appear to rely on seized cash, despite a federal ban on the money to pay salaries or otherwise support budgets. The Post found that 298 departments and 210 task forces have seized the equivalent of 20 percent or more of their annual budgets since 2008.

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I like how they do things in [Norway/Sweden/Finland/whichever of those dog shaped clump of countries it was] - where you're left alone until after conviction. No jail, no assets frozen, no whatever until after the verdict is in. You're innocent until proven guilty.

-scheherazade

scheherazade said:

I like how they do things in [Norway/Sweden/Finland/whichever of those dog shaped clump of countries it was] - where you're left alone until after conviction. No jail, no assets frozen, no whatever until after the verdict is in. You're innocent until proven guilty.

-scheherazade

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In Spain it works like this:

If there is no threat to national security, or risks of fleeing away, destroying evidence or similar things, you get a fine. If you pay the fine, you can stay out of jail until the verdict. The fine is set up so that it normally covers some of the liabilities. So, if you are found guilty, you lose the fine and get sent to jail (if the matter is jail-related) and, if you aren't, you get your fine returned (all of it).

If there is no fine to pay, you go to jail... although fines are setup most of the time so that you can pay them (which works as some sort of insurance).

Also, evidence is never destroyed nor sold until AFTER the verdict (and all instances of appeal have been expended), except when we are talking about drugs themselves... which they do it simply because:

a) Drugs are illegal. They can't return you something illegal, and thus its useless to store lots of stuff that will only slowly disappear from police warehouses.

b) There is no need to keep them at all once you have verifiable information about the quantity and the purity.

The problem with all of this is that, many many times, the goods that get forfeited get sold once they are worth nothing. And I kid you not: even high-end cards such as Mercedes Mclaren SLR are found stored in open compounds for years, with not even a cover on them. Can you imagine the value of a car that has been the whole process (up to 5 years, and maybe more, with appeals and all) outside, specially those that are highly-valued and require huge maintenance?

Yup. I'm talking about this. Sure, this car has been at least 1 year outside, with no cover and... EVEN THE CAR IS OPEN!



There is no perfect system. The US system might like to rush things a bit.. the Spanish one sure has to take its "siestas".

Although... Id rather have our spanish law system, than the US one. Seems a lot more fair.

aardvark sandwich said:

FBI should be in jail for stealing Bitcoins and selling them for profit before the trial even began.

We have a pathetic fantasy state where everything the government does is ethical and nonviolent exchange between consenting adults is evil.

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I'll be damned if that isn't the most accurate thing I have read in the last 20 years.

Kudo's sir!