Valve Faces Legal Action In Australia Over Refund Policy

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The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is suing Valve over its refund policy. The first hearing on the matter is set for October 7th.

According to the ACCC, Valve breached the Australian Consumer Law for stating that consumers were not entitled refunds and that it had “excluded, restricted or modified statutory guarantees and/or warranties that goods would be of acceptable quality.” The ACC claims that the Portal 2 developer absolved itself from obligation to repair, replace or provide a refund for a game.
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There is an easy solution to this ... stop selling in Australia ... don't they already have complicated rating and censorship policies as well in Australia ... it might not be worth the trouble of dealing with an annoying government
 
Valve's refund and price match policies are nonexistent from my eperiences. Their reps also seem to have a "I could care less" type of attitude. I have yet to have any success reaching out to them for any help in that. Maybe here in the US they are in their right to shut people down for their requests once they launch a game etc.. but other countries have their own policies and their "We're the # 1 digital distributor, take it or leave it" attitude isn't going to work everywhere.
 
Valve has only allowed refunds in extremely rare situations such as customer backlash because a game didn't deliver to it's standards or lied about something. Usually they would need thousands of irate customers to go through with it.

Or if your account was hijacked and multiple purchases were made not in your name.

That's about it.
 
kbrickley said:
There is an easy solution to this ... stop selling in Australia ... don't they already have complicated rating and censorship policies as well in Australia ... it might not be worth the trouble of dealing with an annoying government
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They can do that and lose a whole heap of money, firstly from consumers and secondly from developers who will just gravitate towards other digital distribution platforms, whilst at the same time encouraging piracy rates to go through the roof.

The rating policies are not complicated and any historical censorship occurred as a result of there not being an R+ classification which is now available....so please stop making shit up. Is it really that much to ask that companies take responsibility and not sell faulty bug ridden products to consumers? Really?
 
I hope they try to stand their ground and ACCC then fines their ass to oblivion.
 
What did they expect from a prison colony? Just stop doing business there. Eventually the Australians will get pissy that they have to pay three times as much for everything with greatly limited selection and change their hippy government.
 
And BTW, for those who don't know about how the anti-business policies of Australia's government is hurting their people, lets try to understand why Ausies always act like they live in poverty:
Pack of cigs: $18.62
Gallon of gas: $5.87
1 Pair of Levis 501 Jeans: $94.84
Internet (6 Mbps): $63.31
Porsche Carrera S: $282,800 ($88K in the US BTW)
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle): $2.86
Eggs (12): $4.04
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans): $0.84 (its around 10-15 cents here)
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle): $4.53
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment: $7,148.26

Anti-business hippies sometimes forget that you can demand anything you want, but someone, ie the consumer, ends up paying for it.
 
Blade-Runner said:
They can do that and lose a whole heap of money, firstly from consumers and secondly from developers who will just gravitate towards other digital distribution platforms, whilst at the same time encouraging piracy rates to go through the roof.

The rating policies are not complicated and any historical censorship occurred as a result of there not being an R+ classification which is now available....so please stop making shit up. Is it really that much to ask that companies take responsibility and not sell faulty bug ridden products to consumers? Really?
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Publishers will leave Valve as well if they allow people to freely claim refund.
 
Valve's no-refund policy is kind of stupid. I had a situation where their checkout system glitched and processed the wrong game. I even had screen shots and could recreate the glitch, which I sent them. Since it was only a couple of dollars, I wasn't really upset, but their complete lack of response and inability to even process a refund is a bit of a problem. That said, Steam is a lot better than the alternatives so it isn't like I am going anywhere.
 
EchtoGammut said:
Valve's no-refund policy is kind of stupid. I had a situation where their checkout system glitched and processed the wrong game. I even had screen shots and could recreate the glitch, which I sent them. Since it was only a couple of dollars, I wasn't really upset, but their complete lack of response and inability to even process a refund is a bit of a problem. That said, Steam is a lot better than the alternatives so it isn't like I am going anywhere.
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I had a similar issue, cost me about $10 so I wasn't super pissed or anything. I also notified them and got no response. Which irritated me far more than the mistake. When I mentioned it on their forums I was met a lot of "VALVE IS THE BEST! GABE LOVES GAMERS AND GAME LOVES ME! THEY DO NO WRONG AND CLEARLY THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT, STUPID!!!"

Fucking fanboys.
 
All the publishers and sellers should be forced to accept refunds. Then we might have an end to this "release alpha as finished and sell the real game as DLC" BS the industry has become.
 
A majority of Steam consumers not only rabidly defend Valve's no refunds policy and sub-Comcast levels of consumer support, but also openly refer to the CEO of Valve as a deity.

I cannot for the life of me understand these people.

If EA's Origin storefront was littered with mobile ports and Alpha products, with no way of filtering such products from your search query and a strict no refunds policy, would the cult-like Valve fans defend them as well? What if it was the Ubi store that was this way? Would the Valve supporters leap to Ubisoft's defense?

Of course they wouldn't. And the reasons they give would be along the lines of, "Well, EA is evil and Gabe is a God". Literally anything Valve does or any product they create is placed on a pedestal and blindly worshiped by mindless hordes. Hell, we now have Steam consumers advocating for gaming on touchpads - astonishing to say the least.

The users of Steam and the Internets are not going to force Valve to change their anti-consumer policies. In fact, they lobby for and welcome such policies because they view the CEO of Valve as an infallible God. I'm glad some adults stepped in and are now forcing Valve to enact some basic consumer protection.
 
My argument with Steam support was basically revolving around a title I purchased, and did not download or run, which their technology can 100% prove to be true. In those cases a refund should still be possible after only having purchased the game less than 24 hours ago. Also if a game you purchased 12 hours ago goes on sale for 1/2 the price you paid and you haven't downloaded or run the game they should price match it for at least store credit. None of that seems to fit their policies or idea of a fair marketplace. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who doesn't agree with everything Valve does.
 
Ducman69 said:
And BTW, for those who don't know about how the anti-business policies of Australia's government is hurting their people, lets try to understand why Ausies always act like they live in poverty:
Pack of cigs: $18.62
Gallon of gas: $5.87
1 Pair of Levis 501 Jeans: $94.84
Internet (6 Mbps): $63.31
Porsche Carrera S: $282,800 ($88K in the US BTW)
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle): $2.86
Eggs (12): $4.04
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans): $0.84 (its around 10-15 cents here)
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle): $4.53
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment: $7,148.26

Anti-business hippies sometimes forget that you can demand anything you want, but someone, ie the consumer, ends up paying for it.
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Hahaha thanks for the laugh. No really, I can sympathize, though.
 
crusty_juggler said:
A majority of Steam consumers not only rabidly defend Valve's no refunds policy and sub-Comcast levels of consumer support, but also openly refer to the CEO of Valve as a deity.

I cannot for the life of me understand these people.

If EA's Origin storefront was littered with mobile ports and Alpha products, with no way of filtering such products from your search query and a strict no refunds policy, would the cult-like Valve fans defend them as well? What if it was the Ubi store that was this way? Would the Valve supporters leap to Ubisoft's defense?

Of course they wouldn't. And the reasons they give would be along the lines of, "Well, EA is evil and Gabe is a God". Literally anything Valve does or any product they create is placed on a pedestal and blindly worshiped by mindless hordes. Hell, we now have Steam consumers advocating for gaming on touchpads - astonishing to say the least.

The users of Steam and the Internets are not going to force Valve to change their anti-consumer policies. In fact, they lobby for and welcome such policies because they view the CEO of Valve as an infallible God. I'm glad some adults stepped in and are now forcing Valve to enact some basic consumer protection.
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Quoted for truth. I'm all for business and capitalism but there should be some level of basic protections and in this case Valve is so incredibly onerous on their sales policies that it's needed to be changed one way or another for a good while now.
 
not just valve, but the general 'lol you fell for it' attitude in game industry is just disgusting.
Well, too bad more customers are just gonna wait out for 75% sales of the GOTY versions if ever buying.
 
Lord_Exodia said:
Valve's refund and price match policies are nonexistent from my eperiences. Their reps also seem to have a "I could care less" type of attitude. I have yet to have any success reaching out to them for any help in that. Maybe here in the US they are in their right to shut people down for their requests once they launch a game etc.. but other countries have their own policies and their "We're the # 1 digital distributor, take it or leave it" attitude isn't going to work everywhere.
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Other countries have this attitude because Valve purchases are exports essentially and if they allow people to get refunds they reverse part of that. They also make it harder for Valve to compete with local B&M merchants.
 
Could someone explain to me that with a very loose return policy, how people could be stopped from playing a game out in a Weekend or a week and returning it. Factor in that for saving $30+ people would just create anonymous IDs to hide their return count in a heartbeat. I bet there are automated tools just for that already for other things.
 
If the product being returned hasn't been played (or played for a max of 30 minutes) then I'd say there's no issue and a refund should be given.

If the product has been played then there'd need to be some proof that the product in question meets the requirements of the country's refund laws.

Australian law (link)

You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.

If you have a minor problem with a product or service, the business can choose to give you a free repair instead of a replacement or refund. When you have a major problem with a product, you have the right to ask for your choice of a replacement or refund. For a major problem with a service, you can choose to receive compensation for the drop in value below the price paid, or a refund.

If the problem with a product or service is minor, you must accept a free repair if the business offers you one.

You can ask for a replacement or refund if the problem with the product is major.

It is against the law for businesses to tell you or show signs stating that they do not give refunds under any circumstances, including for gifts and during sales.
Your rights under the consumer guarantees do not have a specific expiry date and can apply even after any warranties you’ve got from a business have expired.
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dmonkey said:
Hahaha thanks for the laugh. No really, I can sympathize, though.
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Well its not as impressive a difference with cheaper vehicles... Mercedes-Benz C-Class sedan is: $67,900 in Australia, and $35,350 here. But yeah, always here Australian buddies saying they make around $60-70K a year, and yet always act like they have no money. Then you realize their government created so many regulations and taxes that it makes everything hugely expensive.
jpm100 said:
Other countries have this attitude because Valve purchases are exports essentially and if they allow people to get refunds they reverse part of that. They also make it harder for Valve to compete with local B&M merchants.
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Yup, but in the end their protectionist policies just end up hurting everyone since they are so widespread.

And for a laugh, the top 10 games the Australian nanny-state banned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLGhop_MwY
 
So the only time Valve would need to issue a refund is if the problem with the product is a major one. Which would need to meet these requirements:

A product or good has a major problem when:

  • it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
  • it is unsafe
  • it is significantly different from the sample or description
  • it doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed.
A service has a major problem when:

  • it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
  • it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time
  • it does not meet the specific purpose you asked for and cannot easily be fixed within a reasonable time
  • it creates an unsafe situation.
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I have always known valves support sucks and agree with that. I also think that valves no refund policy is a little to heavy handed. Personally I think valve has the ability to know how much time you played a game in steam. And if you have not played any time or have played less than 1 hour of a game or something like that they should allow you to do a refund. 1 day less than 1 hour of play get a refund on the site though an automated system. This would solve a lot of the I made a mistake or valve made a mistake complaints and could all be done without any human intervention. It also would not cost valve anything because credit card processing is rarely batched right away so they could refund with no fees etc.... This would also take care of problems where someone just cannot get the game to install on their system so long as they make an effort to install it the same day.

But that said I don't agree with refunds because you just don't like the game. Many games have demos, almost all games have plenty of reviews and valve has a huge forum. If you care that much about your money then take a little time to actually read around. And their are plenty of cheap skates who would play half a game or play it for a while then just return it. You don't get a refund if you didn't like a movie. Its up to you to decide before you go see the movie.


kbrickley said:
There is an easy solution to this ... stop selling in Australia ... don't they already have complicated rating and censorship policies as well in Australia ... it might not be worth the trouble of dealing with an annoying government
Click to expand...

They also charge more for all content and the aussies blame it on ALL the other companies in the world and not their own government. So some how the government has tricked the people into thinking that all other companies in the world are out to hate on Australia. It does seem that Australia more than others seems to have a problem with gaming and especially valve.
 
crusty_juggler said:
A majority of Steam consumers not only rabidly defend Valve's no refunds policy and sub-Comcast levels of consumer support, but also openly refer to the CEO of Valve as a deity.

I cannot for the life of me understand these people.

If EA's Origin storefront was littered with mobile ports and Alpha products, with no way of filtering such products from your search query and a strict no refunds policy, would the cult-like Valve fans defend them as well? What if it was the Ubi store that was this way? Would the Valve supporters leap to Ubisoft's defense?

Of course they wouldn't. And the reasons they give would be along the lines of, "Well, EA is evil and Gabe is a God". Literally anything Valve does or any product they create is placed on a pedestal and blindly worshiped by mindless hordes. Hell, we now have Steam consumers advocating for gaming on touchpads - astonishing to say the least.

The users of Steam and the Internets are not going to force Valve to change their anti-consumer policies. In fact, they lobby for and welcome such policies because they view the CEO of Valve as an infallible God. I'm glad some adults stepped in and are now forcing Valve to enact some basic consumer protection.
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QFT

Unfortunately, it rose to the status of a practical monopoly. It is a terrible system at its core. DRM, terrible customer service, no guarantee that your games will be available tomorrow, basically renting you games, you don't own them... I am happy that GOG meets most of my gaming needs.
 
Ducman69 said:
And BTW, for those who don't know about how the anti-business policies of Australia's government is hurting their people, lets try to understand why Ausies always act like they live in poverty:
Pack of cigs: $18.62
Gallon of gas: $5.87
1 Pair of Levis 501 Jeans: $94.84
Internet (6 Mbps): $63.31
Porsche Carrera S: $282,800 ($88K in the US BTW)
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle): $2.86
Eggs (12): $4.04
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans): $0.84 (its around 10-15 cents here)
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle): $4.53
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment: $7,148.26

Anti-business hippies sometimes forget that you can demand anything you want, but someone, ie the consumer, ends up paying for it.
Click to expand...

ROFL, thanks for the laugh....the ignorance of basement forum dwellers knows no bounds.
 
It's kinda weird that EA gets called out all the time for their BS, but no one can be bothered to call out Valve.

I have had problems with EA Origin and I have had live chats with customer support and I've had emails replied to and problems solved pretty fast. Last time I tried to do that with Steam, it was like you're having a problem? Well, we can't help you! BYE!
 
sonsonate said:
It's kinda weird that EA gets called out all the time for their BS, but no one can be bothered to call out Valve.

I have had problems with EA Origin and I have had live chats with customer support and I've had emails replied to and problems solved pretty fast. Last time I tried to do that with Steam, it was like you're having a problem? Well, we can't help you! BYE!
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And don't get me started with the whole Gabe worship. If you listen to what the fantards say, you'd start to believe the guy pisses lavender and craps chocolates. How about when Gabe said that Windows 8 is going to drive Valve/Steam to Linux and how horribly bad Windows 8 will be for gaming. Pisses me off to no end that people eat that crap up. I do wish them luck with Linux since more competition is a good thing, but stop with the FUD.
 
Meeho said:
QFT

Unfortunately, it rose to the status of a practical monopoly. It is a terrible system at its core. DRM, terrible customer service, no guarantee that your games will be available tomorrow, basically renting you games, you don't own them... I am happy that GOG meets most of my gaming needs.
Click to expand...

Valve isn't doing these things because they are monopolizing the DD market, these days you have Amazon, etc anyway. They are doing it because thats what the gaming industry demands. DRM is here because that's what the publisher wants. Resale is not available because that's what the publishers doesn't want.

At the end of the day, these companies are here to make profit. And regardless of what we think about DRM, we do have to recognize the fact that these companies have the right to protect their product as well as doing anything they think will bring in the profit.

If we do not agree with what they are doing, then we should not do business with them, it's as simple as that. It doesn't mean we must find ways to force these companies to do what we demand, playing video games isn't a right.

Besides, the ever increasing revenue in gaming industry shows that the majority of gamer are okay with the way these companies are doing business (hence they continue to do business with them), so can you really blame the companies?
 
Ducman69 said:
Well its not as impressive a difference with cheaper vehicles... Mercedes-Benz C-Class sedan is: $67,900 in Australia, and $35,350 here. But yeah, always here Australian buddies saying they make around $60-70K a year, and yet always act like they have no money. Then you realize their government created so many regulations and taxes that it makes everything hugely expensive.
Click to expand...

Both you and your apparent buddies have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, cars are expensive here because foreign companies....ESPECIALLY AMERICAN COMPANIES....like to price gouge the fuck out of us.

That is a fact, government duties have a marginal impact on the cost of vehicles ....the biggest issue is regulations introduced to protect the local car manufacturers which prohibit the parallel importation of vehicles already sold here, but that will likely fall away in the future because the local car industry is just about dead.

The car industry is now completely comprised of foreign companies, all of which squealed in unison when a productivity commission made a formal recommendation that restrictions on the importation of used vehicles should be lifted....gee I wonder why, because it would undermine the price of luxury vehicles in the primary and secondary markets...:rolleyes:

Ducman69 said:
And for a laugh, the top 10 games the Australian nanny-state banned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLGhop_MwY
Click to expand...

Even funnier than your ignorance is the stupidity of the Amurikans who made this video...

Firstly, half those games were released prior to there being an R18+ classification.

Secondly, most of those games suck ass anyway.

Thirdly, State of Decay, Witcher 2, Left 4 Dead 2 and Saints Row 4 have all been released here.
 
crusty_juggler said:
A majority of Steam consumers not only rabidly defend Valve's no refunds policy and sub-Comcast levels of consumer support, but also openly refer to the CEO of Valve as a deity.

I cannot for the life of me understand these people.

If EA's Origin storefront was littered with mobile ports and Alpha products, with no way of filtering such products from your search query and a strict no refunds policy, would the cult-like Valve fans defend them as well? What if it was the Ubi store that was this way? Would the Valve supporters leap to Ubisoft's defense?

Of course they wouldn't. And the reasons they give would be along the lines of, "Well, EA is evil and Gabe is a God". Literally anything Valve does or any product they create is placed on a pedestal and blindly worshiped by mindless hordes. Hell, we now have Steam consumers advocating for gaming on touchpads - astonishing to say the least.

The users of Steam and the Internets are not going to force Valve to change their anti-consumer policies. In fact, they lobby for and welcome such policies because they view the CEO of Valve as an infallible God. I'm glad some adults stepped in and are now forcing Valve to enact some basic consumer protection.
Click to expand...

You are utterly blind in suggesting that entertainment media is something can be simply refunded as you do with consumer products. Moreover, there is absolutely no obligation to issue refund by stores if the product is not defective, and frankly, it is up to the vendor to decide on their return policies. I will not stand somebody that has the gall to suggest that a corporation hasn't the right to state no-refund policy while scapegoating anyone standing on that side as worshippers of the Gaben.
 
rudy said:
But that said I don't agree with refunds because you just don't like the game.
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The laws in Australia don't give you the right to return something if you simply don't like it or change your mind, there has to be something fundamentally wrong with the goods which makes them unfit for purpose or if they are misdescribed. Even then, the seller at first instance is not obliged to provide a refund, they have the right to first attempt to repair the good or offer an exchange.

rudy said:
Many games have demos, almost all games have plenty of reviews and valve has a huge forum. If you care that much about your money then take a little time to actually read around. And their are plenty of cheap skates who would play half a game or play it for a while then just return it. You don't get a refund if you didn't like a movie. Its up to you to decide before you go see the movie.
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This isn't really about people changing their minds but whether or not there is something fundamentally wrong with the product being sold. I am sure that Valve will be very aware in many cases where a game is just flat out broken (e.g. Watch Dogs) where the consumer is justifiably aggrieved.

rudy said:
They also charge more for all content and the aussies blame it on ALL the other companies in the world and not their own government. So some how the government has tricked the people into thinking that all other companies in the world are out to hate on Australia.
Click to expand...

The government has nothing to do with the pricing of content here, it is entirely on the companies who provide the most the most flippant and insipid excuses to justify their positions. There was a recent gov't enquiry into digital pricing and most of the major companies couldn't even be stuffed showing up, they had to be compelled to attend. The conclusion reached was that there was no reasonable justification for the massive divide in prices and the consumers should actively use VPN services.

rudy said:
It does seem that Australia more than others seems to have a problem with gaming and especially valve.
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Valve doesn't set the prices....in fact Valve's prices content exactly the same in Australia.The issue is with the publishers who set local prices.

And if you think it is just Australian's who have a problem with steam pricing then you obviously have not spoken to any Europeans who pay the exact same figures as the US prices except denominated in euros.
 
Hornet said:
Valve isn't doing these things because they are monopolizing the DD market, these days you have Amazon, etc anyway. They are doing it because thats what the gaming industry demands. DRM is here because that's what the publisher wants. Resale is not available because that's what the publishers doesn't want.

At the end of the day, these companies are here to make profit. And regardless of what we think about DRM, we do have to recognize the fact that these companies have the right to protect their product as well as doing anything they think will bring in the profit.

If we do not agree with what they are doing, then we should not do business with them, it's as simple as that. It doesn't mean we must find ways to force these companies to do what we demand, playing video games isn't a right.

Besides, the ever increasing revenue in gaming industry shows that the majority of gamer are okay with the way these companies are doing business (hence they continue to do business with them), so can you really blame the companies?
Click to expand...

That doesn't exempt them from criticism. The industry didn't demand poor customer service or no guarantee of access to purchased games. By e.g. forcing them to give refunds (under defined circumstances), both them and publishers would have to improve. And by blindly worshiping Steam and not holding them to the same standards as their competitors, gamers are supporting this poor treatment of themselves.

On the positive side, there is a slow trend of bypassing publishers and DRM, and going with more direct methods to the customers, both in gaming and music industry. I just hope there will come a day when those leeches go out of business.
 
Hornet said:
Publishers will leave Valve as well if they allow people to freely claim refund.
Click to expand...

probably true, a sad state of affairs, steam is a licence to make poor games really as once someone buys it they screwed if the game sucks.
 
Blade-Runner said:
Valve doesn't set the prices....in fact Valve's prices content exactly the same in Australia.The issue is with the publishers who set local prices.
Click to expand...

I don't buy that. They are big enough to be able to demand fair treatment of all their customers. They want to charge more, whether they initiated the policy or not.
 
yeah I have met the fanboys as well.

Steam keeps asking me to "verify" my email address every 2-4 weeks, its silly. I first contacted support, no reply other than an automated response, then I posted on the forum and was met with a load of abuse from fanboys.

Also that developers have moderator rights on their own forums so they can censor/ban people, that is very wrong, steam is a developer's paradise with their policies.

I am also pretty sure the no refund policy conflicts with UK and probably all of EU law. I remember steam changing some policy a while back after they lost a court case in a EU court but cannot remember what it was now.
 
Meeho said:
That doesn't exempt them from criticism. The industry didn't demand poor customer service or no guarantee of access to purchased games. By e.g. forcing them to give refunds (under defined circumstances), both them and publishers would have to improve. And by blindly worshiping Steam and not holding them to the same standards as their competitors, gamers are supporting this poor treatment of themselves.

On the positive side, there is a slow trend of bypassing publishers and DRM, and going with more direct methods to the customers, both in gaming and music industry. I just hope there will come a day when those leeches go out of business.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by no guarantee of access? Online DRM? Steam isn't the only online DRM, it has been around since Doom 3, maybe earlier. When I bought Diablo 3, I couldn't access the game for the first day. Such is the nature of online DRM.

The industry does demand DRM despite it's downside, despite the no guarantee of access and anything else that comes along with DRM.

No one is worshipping Steam or any of these practices. People are using Steam simply because the system works for them, the same reason people play Diablo 3 and any other game/services that comes with these restrictions. You can't accuse others of being fanboy when they defend their acceptance of these practices, because if something works for them, then there's nothing wrong for them to accept it.

I'm fine with people thinking that DRM and a more restrictive refund policy is bad, but not everyone have to think it's bad, and it doesn't make them blind fanboy when they are okey with such situation.
 
Hornet said:
What do you mean by no guarantee of access? Online DRM? Steam isn't the only online DRM, it has been around since Doom 3, maybe earlier. When I bought Diablo 3, I couldn't access the game for the first day. Such is the nature of online DRM.
Click to expand...

I mean if they ever close shop for whatever reason, all of your paid for games could be rendered invalid. Plus, the usual pitfalls of online DRM you've mentioned.

No one is worshipping Steam or any of these practices. People are using Steam simply because the system works for them, the same reason people play Diablo 3 and any other game/services that comes with these restrictions. You can't accuse others of being fanboy when they defend their acceptance of these practices, because if something works for them, then there's nothing wrong for them to accept it.

I'm fine with people thinking that DRM and a more restrictive refund policy is bad, but not everyone have to think it's bad, and it doesn't make them blind fanboy when they are okey with such situation.
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The problem isn't about blind fandboys using Steam, it's about refusing to accept any criticism. Even worse when hypocritically bashing the same things elsewhere.
 
The thing is that Value didn't start the no refunds, that has been an industry standard for years. You have never been able to buy a movie at a store, go home and open it, watch it and bring it back to get your money back. same for pc games, once you open the game and installed it, you were stuck with it. Valve and the rest have just taken this from how it has been with physical copies and moved it to digital.

Now they should be willing to work with customers that their system gives the wrong game to after checkout or stuff like that. But I can't really fault them for not giving refunds all the time to people. Otherwise people would abuse that all the time. Buy a game, play it then turn around and demand a refund. So they do need to have some type of rules in place, and they choice to go with the ones that have been there for decades.

In cases of really broken game they have given refunds. So it does happen though.
 
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