Dear Piracy Apologists: Downloading Unreleased Films Is Not Cool

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While I know this topic is a hornet nest, it's still fun to stir it every once in a while. :p

Despite my frustration at not being able to see "Boyhood" when I wanted to, I never once considered torrenting it. Not because it was an indie film, because I admire Linklater, or because it may actually be hard to find a high-quality leak. But because it is simply not cool to decide that just because I can -- just because some form of media exists out there in the world -- that I deserve to have it, now and for free.
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Dear hbo, give me the option to purchase downloadable episodes of Game of Thrones for $1 and you can have moar dragons..
 
This is one of those odd things.... it's so "bad" to download unreleased films, yeah sure I guess (not really). Well guess what, the only way unreleased films get out into the wild is because of "your" system of giving out copies of unreleased films to just about anyone who has a screen actors guild card. "Your people" are the pirates, everyone else who downloads it is just doing it because of "your pirates" put it out there in the first place. Why doesn't the MPAA sue SAG?
 
Might have to check this out. It's unique in that it was filmed in increments over 12 years using the same people including Linklater's own daughter.
 
sfsuphysics said:
This is one of those odd things.... it's so "bad" to download unreleased films, yeah sure I guess (not really). Well guess what, the only way unreleased films get out into the wild is because of "your" system of giving out copies of unreleased films to just about anyone who has a screen actors guild card. "Your people" are the pirates, everyone else who downloads it is just doing it because of "your pirates" put it out there in the first place. Why doesn't the MPAA sue SAG?
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Suing the Film Actor's Guild is like beating your wife.
 
Dear "Content Creators",

You have no claim to a copyright.
It is an exchange between the public and yourselves to encourage the advancement of the arts and sciences. The copyright terms you have secured for yourselves (the lifetime of the author + 75years) ensure that nothing created in my lifetime will return to the public domain in my lifetime, and it really doesn't matter if it ever will after that.
 
Most of the stuff coming out this year is complete and total garbage.
People pirated movies that never got full releases, like "Your Highness" and "Knights of Badassdom" and the studios bitched those films made too little money, I say if you had released them more than just 3 theaters in a state with only 2 showtimes you might have made more money off of them.
You can't blame pirates when you don't release.

The whole theater experience is just terrible anymore minus a few places that found niches, like the places with well maintained recliners or the ones that serve meals with the movie.
Every freaking theater around here is sticky floor covered in popcorn, next to no staff, $8 soda, $7 popcorn, $15 tickets, idiots talking on their phones or shouting at the screen during the movie..
And if you say "Excuse me, can you quiet down other people are trying to watch the movie too" then YOU'RE the asshole.
I'd HAPPILY pay $20 to download the movie and watch it at home in my recliner, with a pause button, with whatever snacks and drinks I wanted.
Until the current model is fixed, I'm buying bluerays for damn near everything, except Guardians of the Galaxy, I'm taking the nephews and nieces to see it next week.
 
sboucher said:
Dear hbo, give me the option to purchase downloadable episodes of Game of Thrones for $1 and you can have moar dragons..
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...within a reasonable time, too. This BS of "after season three ends, you can buy season two on DVD" bs has to end. I don't have cable. I don't want cable. I don't want to pay Comcast any more money than I have to. Why do I have to have cable to get HBO content?

Also, downloading movies that you don't already own is a bad thing. Downloading TV shows is no different than owning an old VCR or a newer DVR. If it's broadcast, it out there already. They shouldn't have the rights to go beating down other people over it.
 
Kaitian said:
Suing the Film Actor's Guild is like beating your wife.
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Oh, that reminds me.....


We know where these high quality screener rips come from. And it's not some kid at the theater. Take care of your shit and it won't get online for others to download.

It is wrong? Sure. Do I think those that download those movies are bad people? No way. It's out there, it's easy to get. You're not stealing a car. Hell, you aren't even sneaking into a movie theater. You're downloading a movie from some site online to watch it at home. It shouldn't be such a criminal act.
 
dgingeri said:
Downloading TV shows is no different than owning an old VCR or a newer DVR. If it's broadcast, it out there already. They shouldn't have the rights to go beating down other people over it.
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They want control of the distribution. Local channels play commercials to pay for the rights to the bigger companies. It's all cash flow. Downloading an TV show post-broadcast still takes away that commercial revenue. But, if it's not being shown on TV anymore, there is no way to watch it (Hulu, maybe). So, either the show is completely dead or you download it and watch it and enjoy it.

Some people call themselves artists, yet they don't want their art available. TV show is over? No DVD release? No more TV broadcasts? They still don't want you to download it. That's a potential dollar they lost. How it is lost, I don't know...
 
Kaitian said:
Suing the Film Actor's Guild is like beating your wife.
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Herro!

Ticket prices have been kept reasonably in check -- average prices have gone up $2.13, from $6.03 to $8.13,
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Average ticket price is $8.13? How are they figuring this average? Are there that many theaters out there that really are selling tickets that are so discounted it yanks down the average of all other theaters? Because that Average price is cheaper than a matinee ticket any any theater around here, and that's one that's NOT in 3D too. Also are they ignoring the 3D upcharge?
 
Oh and this article was what? A paid piece by those who put out the Expendables 3 movie? Because it sure sounds like it, they start with some obscure film, then go onto the EXPENDABLES.
 
Ashbringer said:
Dear film makers, your movies are bad and you should feel bad.
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SICK BURN

sfsuphysics said:
Average ticket price is $8.13? How are they figuring this average? Are there that many theaters out there that really are selling tickets that are so discounted it yanks down the average of all other theaters? Because that Average price is cheaper than a matinee ticket any any theater around here, and that's one that's NOT in 3D too. Also are they ignoring the 3D upcharge?
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No kidding, I think I found that $9.50 was the absolute minimum price for a ticket that I could find around here.
 
SGA76 said:
Most of the stuff coming out this year is complete and total garbage.
People pirated movies that never got full releases, like "Your Highness" and "Knights of Badassdom" and the studios bitched those films made too little money, I say if you had released them more than just 3 theaters in a state with only 2 showtimes you might have made more money off of them.
You can't blame pirates when you don't release.

The whole theater experience is just terrible anymore minus a few places that found niches, like the places with well maintained recliners or the ones that serve meals with the movie.
Every freaking theater around here is sticky floor covered in popcorn, next to no staff, $8 soda, $7 popcorn, $15 tickets, idiots talking on their phones or shouting at the screen during the movie..
And if you say "Excuse me, can you quiet down other people are trying to watch the movie too" then YOU'RE the asshole.
I'd HAPPILY pay $20 to download the movie and watch it at home in my recliner, with a pause button, with whatever snacks and drinks I wanted.
Until the current model is fixed, I'm buying bluerays for damn near everything, except Guardians of the Galaxy, I'm taking the nephews and nieces to see it next week.
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1. There are four movies this year worth the money: Captain America: the Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and X-Men Days of Future Past. (Well, ok, maybe not X-men quite so much, but I liked it.)
2. All those movies were in four theaters within a half hour drive of my apartment. I've never seen any problems in any of the cities I've lived in, Chicago, Denver, Oklahoma City, where a movie was at too few theaters.
3. The theaters I like to frequent are clean and well staffed. The staff are polite kids and deserving of the pay they get. I've actually been impressed by them. (Shout out to the parents in Parker, Colorado for raising your kids right! South Denver, not so much.)
4. The tickets I've purchased were reasonable prices between $7 and $9, probably because I went to see them on Saturday afternoons instead of evening showtimes.
5. You don't have to get popcorn or drinks. I have seen plenty of movies without those in my life. Recently, I tend to buy them anyway because I have the disposable income and the kids working at the theaters need the work.

Granted, most movies aren't worth squat. Some are. If you went to see some Seth Rogan romcom or Oblivion, I feel for you. Those are horrid movies. Learn from it and be very particular about which movies you see, and you'll be a lot happier.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Herro!


Average ticket price is $8.13? How are they figuring this average? Are there that many theaters out there that really are selling tickets that are so discounted it yanks down the average of all other theaters? Because that Average price is cheaper than a matinee ticket any any theater around here, and that's one that's NOT in 3D too. Also are they ignoring the 3D upcharge?
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I've seen a matinee ticket go for $6. However, this will be in a small or smallest screen a theatre has available. Solution: sit closer. Everything will be bigger.
 
Movie tickets are $5 in my town.

Damn shame babysitter isn't cheaper.

But again I live in a small town, there are a lot of movies that just aren't shown.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Herro!


Average ticket price is $8.13? How are they figuring this average? Are there that many theaters out there that really are selling tickets that are so discounted it yanks down the average of all other theaters? Because that Average price is cheaper than a matinee ticket any any theater around here, and that's one that's NOT in 3D too. Also are they ignoring the 3D upcharge?
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Probably dragging down the average.
http://www.huntsvillemovies.com/
$5 Adults Regular Movie Tickets
$7 Adults 3d Movie Tickets
Cinemark is like $10.50 Adult Regular and 14.50 Adult XD 3D, also have $20 tickets for reserved.
 
dgingeri said:
1. There are four movies this year worth the money: Captain America: the Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and X-Men Days of Future Past. (Well, ok, maybe not X-men quite so much, but I liked it.)
2. All those movies were in four theaters within a half hour drive of my apartment. I've never seen any problems in any of the cities I've lived in, Chicago, Denver, Oklahoma City, where a movie was at too few theaters.
3. The theaters I like to frequent are clean and well staffed. The staff are polite kids and deserving of the pay they get. I've actually been impressed by them. (Shout out to the parents in Parker, Colorado for raising your kids right! South Denver, not so much.)
4. The tickets I've purchased were reasonable prices between $7 and $9, probably because I went to see them on Saturday afternoons instead of evening showtimes.
5. You don't have to get popcorn or drinks. I have seen plenty of movies without those in my life. Recently, I tend to buy them anyway because I have the disposable income and the kids working at the theaters need the work.

Granted, most movies aren't worth squat. Some are. If you went to see some Seth Rogan romcom or Oblivion, I feel for you. Those are horrid movies. Learn from it and be very particular about which movies you see, and you'll be a lot happier.
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Then you're pretty damn lucky because that isn't the way it is around here. I live in the country and there's ONE theater within an hour drive, ONE.
 
KENNYB said:
I've seen a matinee ticket go for $6. However, this will be in a small or smallest screen a theatre has available. Solution: sit closer. Everything will be bigger.
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See that doesn't work at any modern theater, a ticket is a ticket regardless if it's in the crappy "this movie has been out way too long and the only reason we're still showing it is because there is nothing to take it's place" sized screen it still costs the same. The only thing that changes price is if it's matinee vs "normal" time, and I haven't seen a matinee price under $8 in a while, and various extras 3D, Imax, Blahblahfilmexperiencetheater. Now I understand I don't live in a cheap part of the country, which makes me think how many cheap theaters are there such that the average price is $8.13. Are they simply counting average as matinee + full price divided by 2? Or are they actually weighting the average price based on number of showing? i.e. 2 matinee shows + 6 full priced shows divided by 8, or are they basing it on the average price people are actually paying?
 
sfsuphysics said:
Herro!


Average ticket price is $8.13? How are they figuring this average? Are there that many theaters out there that really are selling tickets that are so discounted it yanks down the average of all other theaters? Because that Average price is cheaper than a matinee ticket any any theater around here, and that's one that's NOT in 3D too. Also are they ignoring the 3D upcharge?
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Yea there are quite a few $1 theaters out there that show the films at odd hours months after it ceases showing in main ones that are also part of the reason it takes 3+ months to hit disc. Honestly it is really shady to include these as the average ticket price.

That said, some points have been made here that are really good and just to point out some specifics that the industry as a whole needs to really get a clue on.

Is it right to download something unreleased just because you can? Obviously not and I doubt there is a reasonable argument in favor of it. HOWEVER! They should be really surprised when they do something like a completely retarded limited release in extremely limited regions and people who aren't in those regions pirate the shit out of it. Put bluntly, that is a recipe for encouraging piracy. Especially when you consider that most of those movies won't show up in rentals or for sale for 3-6 months.

On that note, The day and age where movies not being available for rent for 3+ months after release being acceptable is long over. This model is one of the biggest things encouraging the continuation of piracy. Continuing to try and force this model just to keep the theater industry afloat if going to continue to alienate more and more customers. Leave theaters to figure out their own business model, If they want to continue to do well, they should be forced to compete like any other business. This might involve many of them shutting down excessive locations, actually upgrading their services and quite likely Offering something more than just a film with overpriced food. Look at the cruise industry as a great example of the money that can be made by offering people an "Experience" beyond just the basics. Any other industry would have sunk completely offering the kind of shit service that has plagued the theaters for decades. In their current form, I won't step foot in a theater and that is coming from someone who for years went 2-3 times a Week. At this point I will wait until it hits blu-ray and buy it outright as even if the movie is total garbage I come out cheaper. I would far rather see half the number of locations currently, half the available seating, higher ticket prices, cheaper snacks, enforced no cellphones or electronics and the removal of disruptive patrons and an overall experience being offered. I think in this instance Cinemas could take a page from Live action type places like "Medieval times" and offer a dinner experience as one example. Obviously you can't offer that with every single movie but you have tiers and as a few examples;

Tier 1 - could be some of what you see now with reclining chairs, drinks "including alcohol except in kids movies", some decent food selections that you buy similar to how you buy snacks now. tickets ranging in the $20 range excluding snacks and drinks.

Tier 2 - Same as Tier 1 except 15-20% less seating capacity, more private and with a first round of Drinks and snacks included with the option to purchase more. Tickets ranging in the $40-$50 range.

Tier 3 - Slightly different setup here modeling more after the Live action. Seating with tables with a full meal served during the course of the movie. Obviously this would be far more limited showings and be far pricier. This would be aimed at patrons looking for a full experience and to be waited on while enjoying the movie. Pricing for something like this would probably be similar to current stuff and starting around $80 and going up. Obviously this would be something that only specific locations could pull off.

Now again this is just a couple of quickly thought up examples and there are far more things that theaters could easily do to not only keep ticket prices up but even raise them and encourage more patronage. However the reality is it requires a rethinking of their existing model and a willingness to accept that the long term sustainability of it isn't there any longer. All of this would of course go hand in hand with movies being released to disc within a few weeks of their theater debut. People who want an experience go and will go to the theater, people who just want to see the movie will either wait until it hits the $1 cinema or it comes out on disc. Either way theaters just aren't making all that much off that group and would be better served adapting instead of trying to continue holding a gun to their customers heads.
 
sfsuphysics said:
See that doesn't work at any modern theater, a ticket is a ticket regardless if it's in the crappy "this movie has been out way too long and the only reason we're still showing it is because there is nothing to take it's place" sized screen it still costs the same. The only thing that changes price is if it's matinee vs "normal" time, and I haven't seen a matinee price under $8 in a while, and various extras 3D, Imax, Blahblahfilmexperiencetheater. Now I understand I don't live in a cheap part of the country, which makes me think how many cheap theaters are there such that the average price is $8.13. Are they simply counting average as matinee + full price divided by 2? Or are they actually weighting the average price based on number of showing? i.e. 2 matinee shows + 6 full priced shows divided by 8, or are they basing it on the average price people are actually paying?
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They're taking the total ticket money, adding the total people in theater with the total number of estimated downloads, dividing, then you're getting that $8 a ticket they're talking about!;)
 
Whenever somebody gets on their high horse and argues that not only should they get what they want instantly, and for free, but that it is indeed morally/ethically correct that they get what they want instantly and for free and that the creator of that thing should have no say in the matter. . .

. . . I always respond: "Wow. How fortunate that what you want to do just happens to align with your values."

People are going to download and pirate. I think much more highly of those who do it and make no excuses than those who wrap themselves in amoral pretzel trying to explain how it's all justified and that they're actually on the side of the angels. Spare us. . .
 
Ur_Mom said:
It is wrong? Sure.
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You're not stealing a car. Hell, you aren't even sneaking into a movie theater. You're downloading a movie from some site online to watch it at home. It shouldn't be such a criminal act.
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These two thoughts seems to be in conflict.

First, nobody said it's like stealing a car. That's a straw man.

As you said: "Sure". . . it's wrong. But then you go on to dedicate the rest of your post to the means by which someone commits an act that you admit is wrong. As though the use of a computer and the internet somehow makes it less wrong.

How is less wrong to use a computer and the internet than to. . . say. . . grab the blu-ray off the shelf at Best Buy, walk out, watch it once, and then sneak it back into the Best Buy?

Would anyone argue that you didn't steal it in the latter case? How is it different than the former?

Stealing is stealing is stealing. . . again, people can do it and so long as they own up to it I have less of a problem with it. It's all these people rationalizing it and indignantly denying they're doing anything "wrong" that just make me shake my head and tell myself: "This is why we can't have nice things. . ."
 
tumblr_lxai7fsVHh1qb6509o1_1280.jpg
 
I live in Aurora, CO, and the Aurora Movie Tavern goes for $6.50 on weekdays for anything new (matinee is $5). I'm not sure about weekend prices, or if they even change. Plus they have decent food and drinks at semi-reasonable prices. If the movies bad I can always have a few beers and pretend I'm at a club that charged a door fee. Then we have the Elvis Cinemas for $3.50 for evening shows/$2.50 before 6pm. No food or drink outside the usual popcorn and soda though.

I really can't bitch too much about movie prices around here, but I still don't see many movies because, well, they suck. They're not worth $5 or the bandwidth or the 2 hours to see them.
 
Hurin said:
These two thoughts seems to be in conflict.

First, nobody said it's like stealing a car. That's a straw man.
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It's a common thing on anti-piracy ads on legitimate Blu-rays. How have you not seen this? Do you not buy legitimate media? ;)

Stealing is stealing is stealing. . . again, people can do it and so long as they own up to it I have less of a problem with it. It's all these people rationalizing it and indignantly denying they're doing anything "wrong" that just make me shake my head and tell myself: "This is why we can't have nice things. . ."
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I said it was wrong. Is it $150,000 per movie wrong? No way. You can do more time in prison for sharing movies than you can if you kill someone. Do I think it's right to download movies? No. I just don't think that it's a super duper criminal act, either.
 
Nobody here is saying it's like stealing a car.

Again, people can minimize it, people can say it won't be noticed, and people can say that it's no big deal.

But they can't say it's not stealing. Because it is. No amount of rationalizing and justification changes that. If more people would own up to that, there'd be less eye-rolling at all the sanctimonious, convenient rationalizations.
 
Further, that commercial about stealing cars isn't necessarily equating the two acts. It's just trying to get through the thick skulls of some people who don't think it's stealing at all merely because people use computers to do it.

Some people don't think it through. That's the target of those ads. Not those who have thought it through and then come up with all sorts of convenient rationalizations that (in their fanciful world) still justify their continuing to do it.
 
BOTA:49 said:
I live in Aurora, CO, and the Aurora Movie Tavern goes for $6.50 on weekdays for anything new (matinee is $5). I'm not sure about weekend prices, or if they even change. Plus they have decent food and drinks at semi-reasonable prices. If the movies bad I can always have a few beers and pretend I'm at a club that charged a door fee. Then we have the Elvis Cinemas for $3.50 for evening shows/$2.50 before 6pm. No food or drink outside the usual popcorn and soda though.

I really can't bitch too much about movie prices around here, but I still don't see many movies because, well, they suck. They're not worth $5 or the bandwidth or the 2 hours to see them.
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Where I live we have one movie theater. The prices are $7.50 each for adults, not sure about children prices. Where they gouge you is at the concessions. For a combo, 2 medium drinks (32 oz) and a large bag of popcorn (not grocery bag size and not the largest) its $12.50 and it goes up in price from there. If you bought the items individually you'd get soaked even more. That movie cost me $27.50 just to take my daughter and myself. Is it horrible, no but you can rent recent releases for $2-$3 at the video store.
 
Hurin said:
Nobody here is saying it's like stealing a car.

Again, people can minimize it, people can say it won't be noticed, and people can say that it's no big deal.

But they can't say it's not stealing. Because it is. No amount of rationalizing and justification changes that. If more people would own up to that, there'd be less eye-rolling at all the sanctimonious, convenient rationalizations.
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Someone needs to look up the definition of steal. It is NOT stealing, it is copyright infringement. Whether someone thinks copyright infringement is wrong or not is a different argument, but at least use the correct term. Otherwise your argument looks silly.
 
pcjunkie said:
Where I live we have one movie theater. The prices are $7.50 each for adults, not sure about children prices. Where they gouge you is at the concessions. For a combo, 2 medium drinks (32 oz) and a large bag of popcorn (not grocery bag size and not the largest) its $12.50 and it goes up in price from there. If you bought the items individually you'd get soaked even more. That movie cost me $27.50 just to take my daughter and myself. Is it horrible, no but you can rent recent releases for $2-$3 at the video store.
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That's always been the case with movies, going back to the late 80's from what I recall. I like the movie tavern because it's about on par with what you'd get at a regular diner, so it's no worse than dinner and a movie in other places. The Elvis Cinemas charge something like $10 for 2 drinks and a large popcorn as well. Again, it sucks but it's not any different than what I've seen at county fairs or community events that charge $4 a drink, $5 for nachos. Hell, it's a better value than what I get at a Rockies game, and the way they're playing this year I'm better off wasting my money on a movie. At least I wouldn't have to deal with downtown traffic.
 
I'm sure that shaming pirates will help. They tend to feel remorse over their behavior.
 
Many studio executives act like criminals. Many pirates act like criminals. Piracy is approaching a social norm level similar to alcohol during Prohibition. Law only has meaning so long as it can be enforced, otherwise it's just words. So what you have is a mix of unethical behavior on both sides in a system that's already skewed where there's not much of a social consensus as to how big a crime it should be v. whether it should be a crime. It's basically a holy grail of a topic that can be debated endlessly since both sides are in the right, and in the wrong, with there being zero solution without something resembling a restructuring of society.
 
Semantics said:
You might if you thought you could get away with it, i mean who pirates and actually thinks they are going to get prosecuted?
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Well, the difference is that "pirating" and stealing are two completely different crimes. Most important distinction is that people who "pirate" aren't actually depriving someone of their things; pirates just illegally copy data. Furthermore, you aren't depriving someone of something essential.
 
I don't care what any of your opinions are. I am going to pirate whatever I want whenever I want until there is a legal way to get it that is nearly just as convenient. End of story.
 
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