Poor Work Conditions And Sexism Give Game Industry Bad Rap

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Of the developers surveyed by the International Game Developers Association, many felt that society's perception of the game industry is influenced by a number of negative factors.

When it came to the factors influencing society's negative view of games and the people who make them, 68 percent of respondents said reports of the industry's working conditions were a contributing factor. Sexism in games followed closely at 67 percent. 62 percent of respondents named the perceived link to violence as a factor. 51 percent said sexism in the workforce was a problem, while 49 percent attributed the negative perception to the perceived link to obesity. 42 percent of respondents blamed the lack of overall diversity in the industry.
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Comicbooks is the same way oh look how Rob Liefeld draws women who cares.....
Then you goto a comicon see the booth babes and cos players it doesn't matter then.
 
I guess women will never stop crying. They could carry us around on leashes and they would still complain we're opressing them. "Damn, I have to feed this filthy dog. He eats all day long!"
 
Of course there are poor working conditions, is it to be expected otherwise? What programmer doesn't want to work in the games industry right out of college. At least in the USA, many of them are located on the coasts near relatively decent sized cities (or bigger). You take the sunshine discount (if you're in CA) along with the working-in-games discount too. Being salaried, they can work you to the bone, because once you burn out, there is another group of college grads who are ready to take your place. The salaries and perks sound awesome (e.g. some offer free PC upgrades along with free consoles and several games per year) until you take a hard look at your work/life balance (along with the absurd cost of living in certain areas). In the end though, you need to realize it's a job, and even if you play games for a living, it can easily become work instead of play.

(I personally feel part of the problem is the youth oriented culture. They have no experience outside to realize how bad some things truly are, and some of these perks while sounding awesome play into the manipulation of that culture).
 
Sexism in games is a problem? And 67 percent of developers said this? Are they talking multiplayer 12 year old mush mouthes spouting off in a shooter? Or are they saying the games they develop are sexist.
 
There's legit concerns here. Whenever Luperza is on a Planetside 2 stream or Sandi Gardner is on a Star Citizen stream that I watch, the viewer comments are nothing but catcalls and exclamations of how hot the chat members think she is. Whenever one of the random other women that work in the Star Citizen offices appear on Wingman's Hangar show (rip) in the background, people who didn't agree to be in the public eye as a spokesperson for the game, the chat still blows up with sexist and lewd remarks.

This really doesn't happen when its a male on the stream. Then all the comments are objectively evaluating the gameplay, or demo, or whatever is being streamed. You can't just blow off all these comments as if its all "women on their periods or something", to paraphrase South Park's Mr. Garrison. These are legit problems.
 
Nytegard said:
Of course there are poor working conditions, is it to be expected otherwise?
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No, but it's kind of depressing seeing the games industry as a forerunner for the "race to the bottom" economy the whole country is heading towards.
 
Poor work conditions? Like what? They forgot to stock the fridge with Mountain Dew?
 
EODetroit said:
There's legit concerns here. Whenever Luperza is on a Planetside 2 stream or Sandi Gardner is on a Star Citizen stream that I watch, the viewer comments are nothing but catcalls and exclamations of how hot the chat members think she is. Whenever one of the random other women that work in the Star Citizen offices appear on Wingman's Hangar show (rip) in the background, people who didn't agree to be in the public eye as a spokesperson for the game, the chat still blows up with sexist and lewd remarks.

This really doesn't happen when its a male on the stream. Then all the comments are objectively evaluating the gameplay, or demo, or whatever is being streamed. You can't just blow off all these comments as if its all "women on their periods or something", to paraphrase South Park's Mr. Garrison. These are legit problems.
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As a streamer, I can honestly say the overwhelming majority of viewers are male between the ages of 12-16 in my experience. I can also state without hesitation that the overwhelming majority of female streamers exploit that very fact. I can think of several well known League of Legends streamers who are female and have made their name for their low cut shirts and convenient cam angles and nothing else because they are absolute trash at the game itself. They know exactly what they are doing. A couple of them pretend to be offended from time to time, but only so much as to boost donations from the white knights in the group watching. So why do the male streams typically spark more conversation? Well because the streamer is usually quite good, or entertaining or taking the time to explain what is going on and what they are thinking, not just making idle stupid commentary. Now that isn't to say that there aren't some good female streamers out there, but there are extremely few. I know of one who is always dressed nice, is solid at the game and her chat is ALWAYS clean, while the rest of them it is always as vulgar as you would expect.

The point is, this is far from a black and white issue and it is far from something that the "Evil white male" is solely responsible for.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
As a streamer, I can honestly say the overwhelming majority of viewers are male between the ages of 12-16 in my experience. I can also state without hesitation that the overwhelming majority of female streamers exploit that very fact. I can think of several well known League of Legends streamers who are female and have made their name for their low cut shirts and convenient cam angles and nothing else because they are absolute trash at the game itself. They know exactly what they are doing. A couple of them pretend to be offended from time to time, but only so much as to boost donations from the white knights in the group watching. So why do the male streams typically spark more conversation? Well because the streamer is usually quite good, or entertaining or taking the time to explain what is going on and what they are thinking, not just making idle stupid commentary. Now that isn't to say that there aren't some good female streamers out there, but there are extremely few. I know of one who is always dressed nice, is solid at the game and her chat is ALWAYS clean, while the rest of them it is always as vulgar as you would expect.

The point is, this is far from a black and white issue and it is far from something that the "Evil white male" is solely responsible for.
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I call false equivalence. There are far more rude straight males (let's not limit it to "white" here) than there are streamers who are in it for "I have boobs."

Still, both sides need to tell their respective peanut galleries to cut the crap.

Men: It's not acceptable to hoot, holler, or make most of the comments about women in gaming/computers about their appearance instead of their work. It shouldn't matter what gender they are--all that should matter is the quality (or not) of their product.

Women: You know who you are. You're encouraging the very behavior that's driving other women out of the industry and creating a reason for posts like this. If that what you want to do with your time (because you need random male attention over the internet) don't be surprised if some other women call you out on this. I think this one would be tougher, because there are relatively fewer women in the industry period so no one (especially not other women) wants to be seen as driving someone out.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
As a streamer, I can honestly say the overwhelming majority of viewers are male between the ages of 12-16 in my experience. I can also state without hesitation that the overwhelming majority of female streamers exploit that very fact. I can think of several well known League of Legends streamers who are female and have made their name for their low cut shirts and convenient cam angles and nothing else because they are absolute trash at the game itself. They know exactly what they are doing. A couple of them pretend to be offended from time to time, but only so much as to boost donations from the white knights in the group watching. So why do the male streams typically spark more conversation? Well because the streamer is usually quite good, or entertaining or taking the time to explain what is going on and what they are thinking, not just making idle stupid commentary. Now that isn't to say that there aren't some good female streamers out there, but there are extremely few. I know of one who is always dressed nice, is solid at the game and her chat is ALWAYS clean, while the rest of them it is always as vulgar as you would expect.

The point is, this is far from a black and white issue and it is far from something that the "Evil white male" is solely responsible for.
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So because some women choose to objectify themselves, all other women can't complain when they, without their consent, receive the same heckles and misogynistic commentary? And further, the fact that any male who speaks up in defense of a woman is given the derisive "white knight" label is just further evidence. Honestly, I haven't even seen that term become so prevalent except recently.
 
Everyone wants to blame everyone else, no one wants to take responsibility.
 
TwistedAegis said:
So because some women choose to objectify themselves, all other women can't complain when they, without their consent, receive the same heckles and misogynistic commentary? And further, the fact that any male who speaks up in defense of a woman is given the derisive "white knight" label is just further evidence. Honestly, I haven't even seen that term become so prevalent except recently.
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Did I say that? No I didn't. Actually I specifically said those who tend to "Not" Objectify themselves tend to be taken seriously as such and the rude and uncouth comments are usually rare and that most of the nastiness is found on the streams of those who do encourage that. I furthermore never said the behavior was acceptable, I simply pointed out where it was most frequently a problem and pointed out that the road ran both ways in most cases. Hence my comment of this isn't just an evil white male problem like the media wants to portray it. There are problems on both sides of the fence and nothing is going to change unless it is acknowledged as such.
 
Outside of the internet people don't magically think differently of women, they just don't say it to their faces. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
I guess women will never stop crying. They could carry us around on leashes and they would still complain we're opressing them. "Damn, I have to feed this filthy dog. He eats all day long!"
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I could replace women with people and make "he" as politicians, and it'll still work, cause we are about as low as politicians' bitches...
 
Hello programers!
Now that there is a plethora of you on the job market, you're no longer special.
You're no different than factory employees, worked crazy hours, benefits slashed, treated like shit, because if you say anything, complain, refuse to work the overtime on your kid's birthday, get your ass thrown out onto the street because there's a million more just waiting for your spot to open.
Its not just your job, we're all treated this way and if we stand up for ourselves and get fired or sue or companies then all these internet jockeys will shoot their mouths off while crying, whining and accusing you of being babies or saying you really don't want or deserve that job from the safety of their parents' basement.
 
Tall guys play basketball better than midgets so there are no midgets in NBA. Should people cry about lack of diversity. Throw in that most players are black . Most "diversity" hand wringing is a PC crock of rubbish. Facts are men do most things better than women. They have bigger brains, half the hormones and emotions etc. Guys like get on a computer and play FPS games. Girls get on and go to tumblr to post food and clothing pics along with emo posters. Sure I know LOTS of girls who like games but most don't really want to work on them or even get inside the PC.
 
SGA76 said:
Hello programers!
Now that there is a plethora of you on the job market, you're no longer special.
You're no different than factory employees, worked crazy hours, benefits slashed, treated like shit, because if you say anything, complain, refuse to work the overtime on your kid's birthday, get your ass thrown out onto the street because there's a million more just waiting for your spot to open.
Its not just your job, we're all treated this way and if we stand up for ourselves and get fired or sue or companies then all these internet jockeys will shoot their mouths off while crying, whining and accusing you of being babies or saying you really don't want or deserve that job from the safety of their parents' basement.
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Well the problem is the people who accuse of others being whiners sometimes work very hard, but they're missing the big picture. It's one thing to work extra hard so you can be extra successful. It's another thing to work extra hard only to barely make ends meet so you can make your bosses richer. Hard work is a virtue. Hard work for someone else exploiting you is not, it makes you either a moron or else desperate.

Is there a way to work for 80 hours a week without living at the office?
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I can't remember where I read it, but I'm pretty sure during crunches for either EA or Rockstar, some employees literally would use company showers and sleep on couches or break rooms some days. My memory is fuzzy on it though.
 
roma said:
Tall guys play basketball better than midgets so there are no midgets in NBA. Should people cry about lack of diversity. Throw in that most players are black . Most "diversity" hand wringing is a PC crock of rubbish. Facts are men do most things better than women. They have bigger brains, half the hormones and emotions etc. Guys like get on a computer and play FPS games. Girls get on and go to tumblr to post food and clothing pics along with emo posters. Sure I know LOTS of girls who like games but most don't really want to work on them or even get inside the PC.
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Right... :rolleyes:
 
LOL

Men have larger brains..LOL Roma, how old are you?

Don't you know size does not matter...this applies for many body parts..
 
Please, they are acting like conditions are similar to Jabba the huts palace with slave Leia.
 
Ducman69 said:
Please, they are acting like conditions are similar to Jabba the huts palace with slave Leia.
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Fuck 60-80 hour work weeks on salary. They make decent money, but not when you break it down by hour. It's one thing to do occasionally, but it seems more the norm for game developers.
 
MrGuvernment said:
LOL

Men have larger brains..LOL Roma, how old are you?

Don't you know size does not matter...this applies for many body parts..
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Actually it does apply. You aren't up on current research ( not that you should need any). Men and women are built differently and have different psychologies to a degree.. As the old saying goes "Men are deeds - women are poetry". Sometimes that's harder to see since a sicker modern culture is trying to emasculate men (see all the boys put on meds in schools) while pretending women superheros (a reason they are being pushed into combat, Marines etc despite failing tests etc)
 
Women and men have the same brain size, only their brains are wired differently and are good at quite different things, which most people don't seem to grasp. This is due to the sexes having evolved to have different roles. In the stone age, men hunted (dangerous, high-risk high-reward activity that needs fine visual and motor skills => hence a preference for video games), while women gathered (low-risk, local activity that enabled them to take care of the kids OR to gossip with the other women about who is the best man at hunting => hence Facebook). These same roles exist today and they are a direct consequence of basic biology. Pretty basic stuff really, but which a lot of people keep denying. Women and men are not interchangeable, instead they have complementary skills for the most part.
 
tetris42 said:
http://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Rock...Diego_employees_have_collected_themselves.php

Short version: 80-96 hour work weeks norm, often without any overtime pay, very poor job security.
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Um ... you just described most of the professional workforce in the USA ... when the corporations began classifying professionals as Exempt instead of Salary Non-exempt or hourly that ship done sailed ... why should game programmers be any more special than every other Exempt worker ;)
 
dgz said:
Is there a way to work for 80 hours a week without living at the office?
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Depends how far from the office you live ... my first job out of college as an engineer had some projects that had me in the office about 80-100 hours a week (and I went through a stretch where I worked 7 days a week for 3 months) ... I basically went home and slept and showered and came back ... since there are 168 hours in a week you can easily work 100 hours (although you couldn't have a multiple hour comute and do that)
 
I worked my way through college, minimum 72 hours a week at work (12-16 hours Monday through Saturday) and 30 hours (6 hours a night Monday through Friday) a week at school not including homework or assigned reading plus another 10 hours a week in drive time.
Its not impossible but your health start failing around the 6 month mark.
I think I was living on 3 pots of coffee, 2 red bulls and a 5 hour energy every day but Sunday which when I got off my shift Saturday I came home read ahead a week then slept till the start of shift Monday.
Not much of a life.
 
kbrickley said:
Um ... you just described most of the professional workforce in the USA ... when the corporations began classifying professionals as Exempt instead of Salary Non-exempt or hourly that ship done sailed ... why should game programmers be any more special than every other Exempt worker ;)
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http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t18.htm
http://www.nber.org/papers/w11895.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-have-a-75-hour-work-week-hes-probably-lying/

In 2011, 19% of non-farmworkers were putting in 50+ hours per week. In 2013, it was up to 28%. So somehow, unless most Americans are lying and working significantly longer than they say they are, I doubt it's like the rest of the professional workforce.

As far as the third article, I don't think it's necessarily that people lie about how much they work, they're just bias and misinformed. The problem though is that the games industry in the USA can really put in these hours, whereas many other people probably only work around 45-50 hours thinking that it's 80 hours because they add in their commute and some other biases.
 
kbrickley said:
Um ... you just described most of the professional workforce in the USA ... when the corporations began classifying professionals as Exempt instead of Salary Non-exempt or hourly that ship done sailed ... why should game programmers be any more special than every other Exempt worker ;)
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Well I'm not sure I agree most professionals meet this description, but you're right, game programmers should not be given special treatment so much as we should be burning buildings over this sort of thing.
 
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