LG Dumbs Down Your Smart TV For Declining Its Privacy Policy

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So you buy a Smart TV for its features but the manufacturer can disable those features at will if you do not consent to an updated privacy policy?

“Because I will not agree to LG’s Privacy Policy, I can now no longer access/use any of of the TV’s network based programs: [BBC] iPlayer, Skype, 3D etc.” What sort of horrific modern nightmare is this? It’s one that could come soon to a formerly-smart television near you, too.
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He should be able to return the TV for a full refund at any time when the manufacture wants to change their TOS.

Something tells me this is not legal as you can not agree to this before you buy the TV
 
sounds like what they do in the software world. "here let me update your software for you, oh btw here are the new rules, agree to them or you can't use the software" except now there's a physical piece of equipment, it would be all sorts of awesome if they didn't even allow him to watch TV on the TV, keep just popping up the "You better agree to taking it up the ass" screen.
 
It sounds like he already used those things based on the verbage "can now no longer access". If he was using those things previously and they pushed an update that killed functionality unless he agreed to a new policy that is just foul on LG. They should not update unless the new policy is agreed to.

There is going to have to be some court ruling on this at some point. Terms of Service and Privacy policies are getting to dam ridiculous. No reasonable and prudent person is going to ready every EULA/PP/ToS they need to interact with. I would wager 99.9% of people do the click ok to get the crap off the screen. It is the 0.1% that catch a lot of these things. Although in this case anyone would that doesn't agree automatically.
 
Just give me your best panel with no tuner no smarts just access to the full spectrum of calibration settings how about that? My Xbox One/360, PS3, HTPC are all quite a bit smarter than anything LG can cram into a panel, so I need LG's redundant crap because???
 
shade91 said:
If you're stupid enough to buy an LG TV you deserve this.
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putting aside this article, I have "good" (not excellent) experience with LG TV's, I admit I'm moving to a samsung 4k in the near future (that LG curved OLED is way over my budget lol)
 
if I buy a TV -- agree to their (1st) policy and am rolling along happily.... if they want to change the terms to something unfavorable, at that point I should be able to return said TV for what I paid for it.

Example: Just because a car manufacturer comes up with new legal mumbo jumbo to better protect THEM, should not mean I lose access to cruise control (a feature I might have specifically paid for)

Translation from LG: agree and do our bidding, otherwise we are going to take away things you already gave us money for. Fuck you LG - this is why I buy Samsung.
 
I've never had any issues with LG TVs. We use them in our trade show booths (we have about 50 37" 10 50" and 5 60". Other then union electricians dropping them........
 
Just don't buy a smart tv.

Hook up a HTPC like me and be awesome.
 
Hackers love this sort of challenge. Firmwares are widely available for HDTV's and I'm sure this is right up their alley.
 
rudedog said:
He should be able to return the TV for a full refund at any time when the manufacture wants to change their TOS.
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I agree, this is something I never understood.

You enter into a contract with a manufacturer, then the manufacturer says they can change their terms and conditions at any time in a disclaimer on page 27 of some fine print somewhere, and you're supposed to suck it.

So in theory they could sell you a TV with no strings attached, and then at some random point after you have committed to the service volunteer you into sex slavery in the Czech republic and your'e not legally bound?

Not to sound like a socialist, but we really need a consumer protection group like they have in Europe to police these companies, or at least campaign finance reform and abolishment of all special interest group access to politicians and an end to superPACs.
 
JayteeBates said:
It sounds like he already used those things based on the verbage "can now no longer access". If he was using those things previously and they pushed an update that killed functionality unless he agreed to a new policy that is just foul on LG. They should not update unless the new policy is agreed to.

There is going to have to be some court ruling on this at some point. Terms of Service and Privacy policies are getting to dam ridiculous. No reasonable and prudent person is going to ready every EULA/PP/ToS they need to interact with. I would wager 99.9% of people do the click ok to get the crap off the screen. It is the 0.1% that catch a lot of these things. Although in this case anyone would that doesn't agree automatically.
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In my experience, if you ever click 'Disagree' or don't agree to a ToS or privacy policy you forfeit use of the software. I used to read them more often, but because of this thought process I just click okay with the thought process of that I either get to use it or not. I know I should read it, but as Jaytee pointed out, it's just so taxing having to scan them all the time.

On that note, the LG TV's in, and of themselves, aren't bad. Their customer service is horrible though - just plain horrible.
 
Ducman69 said:
I agree, this is something I never understood.

You enter into a contract with a manufacturer, then the manufacturer says they can change their terms and conditions at any time in a disclaimer on page 27 of some fine print somewhere, and you're supposed to suck it.

So in theory they could sell you a TV with no strings attached, and then at some random point after you have committed to the service volunteer you into sex slavery in the Czech republic and your'e not legally bound?

Not to sound like a socialist, but we really need a consumer protection group like they have in Europe to police these companies, or at least campaign finance reform and abolishment of all special interest group access to politicians and an end to superPACs.
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The US actually does have an agency that is supposed to be doing these kinds of things, but republicans have blocked the appointment of anyone to head up the agency since its inception. So of course we could have these kinds of protections, but the agency simply cannot function due to the inability of naming the leadership.
 
I would be surprised if the new privacy policy allows more invasiveness than whatever the old privacy policy was. Usually they go the other way when they update them because they all start off ridiculously vague and all-encompassing until some court or regulatory agency orders them to step it down.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Why? My experience with their products is excellent.
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They are regarded as a junk brand with short life cycles for just about anything including home appliances. They rely heavily on marketing and name recognition rather than making a truly quality product. If you had an excellent experience, you beat the curve.
 
Armenius said:
The US actually does have an agency that is supposed to be doing these kinds of things, but republicans have blocked the appointment of anyone to head up the agency since its inception. So of course we could have these kinds of protections, but the agency simply cannot function due to the inability of naming the leadership.
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Good God just stop it already.

The Dems have had full control of congress and the presidency in recent years.

/eye-roll
 
Armenius said:
The US actually does have an agency that is supposed to be doing these kinds of things, but republicans have blocked the appointment of anyone to head up the agency since its inception. So of course we could have these kinds of protections, but the agency simply cannot function due to the inability of naming the leadership.
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To further 5ICKOs comment, and if they don't have a leader they can't do the job? Are you serious? You go to work. Boss calls in sick. You just what sit and stare at a blank computer screen? Do you even believe what you are saying here?
 
5icko said:
Good God just stop it already.

The Dems have had full control of congress and the presidency in recent years.

/eye-roll
Click to expand...
Without super majority control, the senate is strangled by the filibuster. It's a fact that Republicans in the current and previous congress have filibustered more than any congress in history. The majority is supposed to set policy, which in turn is supposed to set off discussion between the parties to draft laws that make sure all citizens are represented. The filibuster is supposed to allow the minority power to be able to trigger a discussion when they feel a law does not represent their constituency. Instead it is simply being abused to block everything they do not like. I'm not for Republicans or Democrats, it's simply at the present time the Senate minority is Republican and the filibuster is being abused by them. These are facts that cannot be denied.

Beyond what the media may lead you to believe, the POTUS does not have direct control of everything in the government. The POTUS only has veto power, can appoint of judges and other officials, draft treaties, ensure that all laws are enforced, has supreme command of the military, and has pardon power. The legislative branch that includes the House and Senate can draft all federal laws, establish lower federal courts, override a Presidential veto, and impeach the President. This is what we call separation of powers and the system of checks and balances in the Constitution.

So while the POTUS does control the executive branch departments, anyone he appoints to head these departments still need to be approved by the Senate in this system. When the minority, whether it be Democrat are Republican, start to abuse the filibuster, it causes the executive branch to become disfunctional when no one can be appointed to head up those departments.
 
Krazy925 said:
To further 5ICKOs comment, and if they don't have a leader they can't do the job? Are you serious? You go to work. Boss calls in sick. You just what sit and stare at a blank computer screen? Do you even believe what you are saying here?
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You still have a boss. The current situation would be more like working for company in a position that had no job description and no leadership structure to define what it is the company does.
 
Armenius said:
Without super majority control, the senate is strangled by the filibuster. It's a fact that Republicans in the current and previous congress have filibustered more than any congress in history. The majority is supposed to set policy, which in turn is supposed to set off discussion between the parties to draft laws that make sure all citizens are represented. The filibuster is supposed to allow the minority power to be able to trigger a discussion when they feel a law does not represent their constituency. Instead it is simply being abused to block everything they do not like. I'm not for Republicans or Democrats, it's simply at the present time the Senate minority is Republican and the filibuster is being abused by them. These are facts that cannot be denied.

Beyond what the media may lead you to believe, the POTUS does not have direct control of everything in the government. The POTUS only has veto power, can appoint of judges and other officials, draft treaties, ensure that all laws are enforced, has supreme command of the military, and has pardon power. The legislative branch that includes the House and Senate can draft all federal laws, establish lower federal courts, override a Presidential veto, and impeach the President. This is what we call separation of powers and the system of checks and balances in the Constitution.

So while the POTUS does control the executive branch departments, anyone he appoints to head these departments still need to be approved by the Senate in this system. When the minority, whether it be Democrat are Republican, start to abuse the filibuster, it causes the executive branch to become disfunctional when no one can be appointed to head up those departments.
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"Beyond what the media may lead you to believe..."

Huh? You assume the media has led me to my conclusion that you're a zealot?

And your wall of text only confirms it (as if it needed confirming).

As to the merits of your arguments, show me the Dem Bill that the righties filibustered pertaining to this issue.

/rolls-eyes-more
 
5icko said:
"Beyond what the media may lead you to believe..."

Huh? You assume the media has led me to my conclusion that you're a zealot?

And your wall of text only confirms it (as if it needed confirming).

As to the merits of your arguments, show me the Dem Bill that the righties filibustered pertaining to this issue.

/rolls-eyes-more
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I am not pushing my political views on anyone, I am simply providing facts on what the government is and why it applies to the post you brought up in question. The following phrase is what compelled me to clear the air:
5icko said:
Good God just stop it already.

The Dems have had full control of congress and the presidency in recent years.

/eye-roll
Click to expand...
This simple phrase led to my post explaining how the government works. If the Democrats had full control of congress then that would mean they have a super majority in both the House and Senate. The current house has a simple Republican majority of 233-199, with 3 independents. The Senate has a simple Democrat majority of 53-45, with 2 independents.


Instead of being hostile, why don't you engage me in a discussion? Why do you feel that anything I said was zealous? What was it that prompted you to say "Good god just stop it already?"

I made a mistake in that my thought was actually pointing to the CFPB, which does not directly apply to a protection of changes in license agreements of consumer products. However, this agency was created by a law that was passed in 2010 and did not get a Senate-confirmed Director until 2013. The POTUS made a recess appointment in 2012 due to how the Republicans were trying to derail the agency.
 
I have great experience with my LG tv and their products in general. As for having a smart tv, that's pretty dumb as you're getting a proprietary system that will never see updates (not only that but it costs a lot more than say Roku or other media box). I say who cares for this article!
 
WOW... what a crock.
And under the GUISE of relevant advertising. F*** that Sh**

That kind of BS should be in BOLD letters on the box.
 
shade91 said:
They are regarded as a junk brand with short life cycles for just about anything including home appliances. They rely heavily on marketing and name recognition rather than making a truly quality product. If you had an excellent experience, you beat the curve.
Click to expand...

Well, they do have short life cycles. That's especially annoying on cell phones, as you can't count on them to deliver an Android update. But all the gear I had from LG, from TVs, DVD drives and monitors to cell phones and even a microwave oven, lasted for a really long time - in fact, except for the things I still use, I sold or gave them away working perfectly. Can't complain about their quality at all.
 
Wow, a new low for LG. Pretty sure that shit is illegal in the UK, though.

They made good electronics but I remember a story from last year (I think) where the smart tv would spy on its owner. It was an LG. Don't remember the context.

I just want a dumb panel. Nothing more. Paying for "smart" devices is the epitome of dumb in my book.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Well, they do have short life cycles. That's especially annoying on cell phones, as you can't count on them to deliver an Android update. But all the gear I had from LG, from TVs, DVD drives and monitors to cell phones and even a microwave oven, lasted for a really long time - in fact, except for the things I still use, I sold or gave them away working perfectly. Can't complain about their quality at all.
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Ditto. I saw this new Privacy Policy come down in an update and clicked through after only a cursory skim of the terms.

Meh, price of doing business.
 
webdev511 said:
Just give me your best panel with no tuner no smarts just access to the full spectrum of calibration settings how about that? My Xbox One/360, PS3, HTPC are all quite a bit smarter than anything LG can cram into a panel, so I need LG's redundant crap because???
Click to expand...

This. I held off on a smart TV becayse I knew a) Picture quality and picture lag was more important than extra "features", and b) because I had planned on purchasing an Xbox 360 shortly after which would be much more capable than any smart tv... not as important, but c) low picture lag on HDMI allowed my computer to function well as a media TV, which was also important to me.
 
Armenius said:
Without super majority control, the senate is strangled by the filibuster. It's a fact that Republicans in the current and previous congress have filibustered more than any congress in history. The majority is supposed to set policy, which in turn is supposed to set off discussion between the parties to draft laws that make sure all citizens are represented. The filibuster is supposed to allow the minority power to be able to trigger a discussion when they feel a law does not represent their constituency. Instead it is simply being abused to block everything they do not like. I'm not for Republicans or Democrats, it's simply at the present time the Senate minority is Republican and the filibuster is being abused by them. These are facts that cannot be denied.

Beyond what the media may lead you to believe, the POTUS does not have direct control of everything in the government. The POTUS only has veto power, can appoint of judges and other officials, draft treaties, ensure that all laws are enforced, has supreme command of the military, and has pardon power. The legislative branch that includes the House and Senate can draft all federal laws, establish lower federal courts, override a Presidential veto, and impeach the President. This is what we call separation of powers and the system of checks and balances in the Constitution.

So while the POTUS does control the executive branch departments, anyone he appoints to head these departments still need to be approved by the Senate in this system. When the minority, whether it be Democrat are Republican, start to abuse the filibuster, it causes the executive branch to become disfunctional when no one can be appointed to head up those departments.
Click to expand...

Armenius said:
I am not pushing my political views on anyone, I am simply providing facts on what the government is and why it applies to the post you brought up in question. The following phrase is what compelled me to clear the air:
This simple phrase led to my post explaining how the government works. If the Democrats had full control of congress then that would mean they have a super majority in both the House and Senate. The current house has a simple Republican majority of 233-199, with 3 independents. The Senate has a simple Democrat majority of 53-45, with 2 independents.


Instead of being hostile, why don't you engage me in a discussion? Why do you feel that anything I said was zealous? What was it that prompted you to say "Good god just stop it already?"

I made a mistake in that my thought was actually pointing to the CFPB, which does not directly apply to a protection of changes in license agreements of consumer products. However, this agency was created by a law that was passed in 2010 and did not get a Senate-confirmed Director until 2013. The POTUS made a recess appointment in 2012 due to how the Republicans were trying to derail the agency.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your posts. They were informative and I commend you on keeping a level head when being annoyed by a troll.

dgz said:
I just want a dumb panel. Nothing more. Paying for "smart" devices is the epitome of dumb in my book.
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OEM said:
Just don't buy a smart tv. Hook up a HTPC like me and be awesome.
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Haha /thread guys amiright? I never saw the intelligence in paying more for subpar "tech" that is already handled by one of more of the digital boxes you already hooked your TV up to. It's just another way for a company to fail at securing your shit.
 
Credit card companies and banks do this sort of thing all the time. The difference is you can transfer your funds elsewhere. This sort of thing being done with a piece of hardware is different because hardware is not a service. What they're doing is acting like they're selling you a service... but that's been the plan all along. Everyone wants everything to be subscription-based or like a lease so they have constant cash flow. Nobody wants anyone to own physical goods anymore because once you own something they don't get more money from you. That's been the target model for businesses for 20 years now. It's the same reason you get subscription-based games like WoW, and nickle-dime you DLC crap.
 
Hands up who has actually ever READ the Ts and Cs on a TV, BluRay or similar device?

Want to know what your LG is up to? Little nasty is phoning home to tell LG what you are watching on TV!! Evil little sods are nosing into your life. And you can't turn it off!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/20/lg_smart_tv_data_collection/

Yep - LG knows all about your choice of pr0n... well, you clicked "I Agree" on those Ts and Cs didn't you?

This is supposed to be a dumb TV. Not something watching you. Just wait for Microphones and Cameras to be the default and you'll have to accept even more tracking thank to those evil Ts and Cs.

Some of the people that are running these companies just live in such a bizarre world. Killing features that have been paid for is just evil. Why can't I have a bit of privacy when watching the TV I paid for?


And yeah - us [H] guys have HTPCs... but it is down to people like us to let the "normal" home users aware of what these companies are up to. No one reads Ts and Cs so please make sure you tell your mates of these kinds of nasty tricks. LG should not be allowed to get away with this.


And on a side note. All these online linked boxes phoning home. Be it to check for version updates or do full no tracking. A little question - what happens when that company goes bust? And then that company sells or releases its domains? Yep - this means that your hardware is now phoning home to that same URL... but now you have no idea who owns it.

I've had this scary situation happen with some odd brand named PVR I bought only three years ago. Company went bust. And now the URLs are in the hands of gawd only knows who. Yep, this now means that it would be possible for the new owner of the URL to create their own firmware update and deliver it to my PVR... if I do a check now I am getting "new" firmware offered... but I ain't touching it as I *know* the box has been abandoned.


Even the "big boys" have a strangly clueless idea about security. Hard Coded passwords?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/02/smarttv_dumb_vuln_philips_hardcodes_miracast_passwords/


Yep - this online minefield for hardware is only just starting. You wait until that "connected home" idea takes off and the fridge, microwave, lightbulbs all start talking to each other... and phoning home to unknown servers. Oh what fun...

We are only on the tip of the iceberg here.... :eek:
 
Note that the Consumerist.com article links in the original [H] post by Steve also mentioned this tracking of what you watch. That is why the guy tried to opt-out.

And this is in the UK... where we have so called "Consumer protection". Trouble is that is a very slow and clunky process run by people who are not always hot on the technology.
 
I feel ANY time a company changes their EULA or ToS AFTER you've already agreed to one you should be able to opt out, return whatever it is you've purchased and get a full refund.
I don't care if its a car, a television, a computer, an app, software...
Its really a dirty thing to do.
Like last year with Steam changing its ToS where you had to accept it or lose access to all the games you've already paid for. Pissed me off so bad I didn't agree for 6 months, then I was fiending Skyrim so bad I clicked yes in a moment of weakness.
Really though, should be laws concerning this kind of behavior.
 
OEM said:
Just don't buy a smart tv.

Hook up a HTPC like me and be awesome.
Click to expand...

^ This fo sho!. I have had a HTPC in my main viewing area since 2005/6. I try to get a tv to be simply a display device. No smart features needed. I just want a great picture, everything else is handled by the HTPC and the AV receiver. I do wish Amazon Prime was able to be viewed on the HTPC in HD. I need to add a device like a Roku or tv on Amazon's silly list.
 
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