Activists Sue San Francisco Over 'Google Bus' Stops

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
Messages
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It’s a fact that your successes are never appreciated in your home town or in this case, anywhere near your home town. The concerned citizens of San Francisco are taking the government agencies to task over Google’s use of public bus stops by suing the various agencies involved with a cease and desist order. Warning, image in article may be NSFW in some environments.

"We know that these buses are having devastating impacts on our neighborhoods, driving up rents and evictions of long-time San Francisco residents"
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If I were Google I'd just pack up and move my entire operation to a different state. Let's see how happy the hippies are then.

Google paid for the "public bus stops" many times over via the taxes they pay.
 
The concerned citizens of San Francisco are taking the government
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Some whiny people who think San Francisco must run the way they want are taking the government...

There, fixed it.

Seriously, I'm sure quite a few people would love to sue whiny bitches and get them to leave the city instead of Google.
 
Thuleman said:
If I were Google I'd just pack up and move my entire operation to a different state. Let's see how happy the hippies are then.

Google paid for the "public bus stops" many times over via the taxes they pay.
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It's not the state, it's a small group of self entitled hipsters who are moronic enough to think that if Google wasn't transporting people then rents would be affordable. Because it's only because of Google that rents shot through the roof.

Actually Google hasn't paid for the bus stops with taxes, 1) they're not actually in San Francisco so don't pay any local tax there, and 2) the bus funds come primarily from parking income (both paid parking, and tickets associated with them), I mean there's a reason a parking tickets are so expensive in the city, have to pay for a bloated transit agency.
 
Google pays SF a fee in exchange for their buses to use the public bus stops.
 
Thuleman said:
Google paid for the "public bus stops" many times over via the taxes they pay.
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I think you mean the taxes they dont pay by funneling profits through Ireland. I'd bet they pay less in tax than anyone living near there.
 
Move up, or move out. Long term residents that have not made it, or have not purchased property are SOL. Money talks, BS walks.
As a slumlord, I run into this sort of stuff regularly.

Stupid renter: "When I first started renting form you 20 years ago it was 300 a month, now you charge 900."
Me: You could have purchased the house next door 20 years ago for 300 a month, and you would still only be paying 300 a month and be in the final years of your mortgage. That does not change that I can get 900 a month for the unit you are living in."

Inflation happens. The "real" inflation rate, not that silly next to useless cpi, has been between 4% and 12% over the last two decades. How much of the rent increases have more to do with inflation outpacing wage increases, than with Google pulling employees making more than the local median into the market? Considering most wage increases are based on the joke that is the CPI, I am willing to bet Google is not the primary problem.
 
It's easy and convenient to assign reasons to the things you do not enjoy in life.
I hope these protesters find a cause where their efforts might benefit someone. Like a charity of some sort.
 
It sounds like a bunch of self-entitled people who think no one should be able to affect their quality of life regardless of their failure to maintain it themselves. That sounds a lot like communism to me.

If rents go up, move. It's not your house/apartment and renting is always a short-term agreement. Your spot there is as fleeting as your rental agreement. If you pay monthly, you live there one month at a time. If you manage to buy a property, then you are entitled to live there, otherwise it's one month at a time.

This reminds me of stories of unions destroying the businesses that support them just because the members won't accept reality and just want more, more, more. Hopefully this doesn't destroy San Francisco.
 
I guess chasing around Kevin Rose has to escalate at some point to this.

There are videos on Youtube showing them harassing him , its kinda of pathetic.
 
Hopefully this doesn't destroy San Francisco.
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You must have a typo. Are you sure you didn't mean to say, "Hopefully, this destroys San Francisco" :D
 
First world problems..seriously why do these babies keep getting attention. Judge should just throw it out and fine the shit out of them for wasting everyone's time.
 
sfsuphysics said:
It's not the state, it's a small group of self entitled hipsters who are moronic enough to think that if Google wasn't transporting people then rents would be affordable. Because it's only because of Google that rents shot through the roof.

Actually Google hasn't paid for the bus stops with taxes, 1) they're not actually in San Francisco so don't pay any local tax there, and 2) the bus funds come primarily from parking income (both paid parking, and tickets associated with them), I mean there's a reason a parking tickets are so expensive in the city, have to pay for a bloated transit agency.
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Incorrect. If you want to start getting technical with taxation, the workers they employ would not be getting paid. If they weren't getting paid, they wouldn't be living in SF. If they weren't living in SF they sure as hell wouldn't be paying..

1) Income taxes to SF
2) Property taxes to SF
3) Sales taxes to SF
4) Use taxes to SF
5) Rental taxes to SF

Nice try budday.
 
I know of another waterfront city looking for residents...I hear rents are quite reasonable in Detroit.
 
Kueller said:
I know of another waterfront city looking for residents...I hear rents are quite reasonable in Detroit.
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LOL, that city is pretty much dead. Everyone jokes about "Escape from NY/LA", but Detroit is actually a candidate.
 
Cyraxx said:
Incorrect. If you want to start getting technical with taxation, the workers they employ would not be getting paid. If they weren't getting paid, they wouldn't be living in SF. If they weren't living in SF they sure as hell wouldn't be paying..

1) Income taxes to SF
2) Property taxes to SF
3) Sales taxes to SF
4) Use taxes to SF
5) Rental taxes to SF

Nice try budday.
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Huh? Google employees being taxed is a quite a far reach to say that's Google being taxed.
 
People in this area just do not take lightly to anyone who is successful... well.. except for Steve Jobs and the retarded politicians they keep voting into office. But I digress. The prevailing mindset is anyone who made it to the middle class in these parts must have taken advantage of someone... so the field needs to be leveled and they owe something to the huddles masses for their hard efforts and "success". .

Think these protesters are retarded? Take a look at the local gubberment. In Google's home town the city council is seriously entertaining turning the streets that lead to Google, Microsoft and the otehr tech companies in that area into toll roads. I sh*t you not. These effin lunatics will not be happy until they have driven every business out of the state and turned it into Detroit. And of course when the predictable outcome of their lunacy sets in they will all sit about blaming everyone but themselves for the mess. In case you had not noticed, personal responsibility ain't too prevalent a trait among these idiots.

:rolleyes:
 
sfsuphysics said:
Huh? Google employees being taxed is a quite a far reach to say that's Google being taxed.
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It's a far reach in terms of whether or not Google pays taxes, but for practical purposes (income into SF's coffers) it's quite identical.

If it weren't for Silicon Valley SF wouldn't have much going for it in terms of local economy. Those salaries that are paid out to tech workers are spent on goods and services in SF, so while Google doesn't pay taxes to the City of SF it is not unreasonable to argue that the SF economy (those businesses which do actually pay tax to SF) would not be in the decent place that it is if it weren't for the Google Bus.
 
These activists are those stupid "street performers" and "street artists" that plague the city with their ilk. They used to benefit off rent control by paying hugely low rents ($500/month average) though landlords are finding ways to evict them to bring in people who will pay current market rates ($3K-$4K/month). I for one welcome them getting the boot. That city is a cesspoll and hopefully the young taking it over can help clean it up.
 
GORANKAR said:
LOL, that city is pretty much dead. Everyone jokes about "Escape from NY/LA", but Detroit is actually a candidate.
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Detroit is going to be a cash cow. Land there is extremely cheap now. If I had the time I would start buying up parcels of land there. Real Estate is a limited commodity. Sooner or later those prices are going to go up. Way up.
 
I wish Google would move to my current State, North Carolina or my home State of Mississippi and bring their bad ass connection with it. Granted I have fiber now, it's severely limited to only 80/30. Luckily I only pay $40 for it though. Still no where near 1Gbps.
 
demingo said:
Detroit is going to be a cash cow. Land there is extremely cheap now. If I had the time I would start buying up parcels of land there. Real Estate is a limited commodity. Sooner or later those prices are going to go up. Way up.
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Problem with Detroit (even with dirt cheap real estate) is the loons that turned it into the sh*thole it is today are still running the joint. It will either never recover or simply wind up right back where it is today. Limited Real Estate only comes into play if people want to move to the place where you own it.

If I owned two homes, one in Detroit and the other in hell. I'd rent out the place in Detroit and live in hell... :p
 
Thuleman said:
Google paid for the "public bus stops" many times over via the taxes they pay.
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^This wrong from so many angles. This isn't how things work. Taxes paid entitle NO ONE to special privileges. No one likes a sense of entitlement, except for those that feel entitled.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the actual issue at hand either way as I need more info, but using taxes to justify anything is just wrong.
 
Thuleman said:
If it weren't for Silicon Valley SF wouldn't have much going for it in terms of local economy.
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I'm not sure how long you've been following the SF economy, but it was an expensive, desirable and pretentious city to live in long before the term "Silicon Valley" existed.

It's like saying Manhattan would be all teepees without Wall Street. Wall Street came to Manhattan because of Manhattan, Manhattan didn't come to Wall Street, so to speak.
 
demingo said:
Detroit is going to be a cash cow. Land there is extremely cheap now. If I had the time I would start buying up parcels of land there. Real Estate is a limited commodity. Sooner or later those prices are going to go up. Way up.
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Yeah. You go and buy up large parcels of land around Detroit and let us know how removing the... "undesirables" works out for you.

Even if you could buy up enough land there(or enough groups buy up enough land there), and you managed to kick out all of the drug addicts, drug dealers, gang members, and the criminal element in general, you've still got the local politicians who created policies that drove off businesses in the first place. The only way it'd work is to buy off the entire city and turn it into some sort of utopian fortress like Delta City from the original robocop movies, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

It's actually funny how even in the 80's, the problems in Detroit were so obvious that it was an easy target for satire in movies like that.
 
potency said:
^This wrong from so many angles. This isn't how things work. Taxes paid entitle NO ONE to special privileges. No one likes a sense of entitlement, except for those that feel entitled.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the actual issue at hand either way as I need more info, but using taxes to justify anything is just wrong.
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What about social security and Medicare? Or are you going to argue the finer points of taxation? Tax is tax. Which, by the way, is tax.
 
Thuleman said:
It's a far reach in terms of whether or not Google pays taxes, but for practical purposes (income into SF's coffers) it's quite identical.

If it weren't for Silicon Valley SF wouldn't have much going for it in terms of local economy. Those salaries that are paid out to tech workers are spent on goods and services in SF, so while Google doesn't pay taxes to the City of SF it is not unreasonable to argue that the SF economy (those businesses which do actually pay tax to SF) would not be in the decent place that it is if it weren't for the Google Bus.
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But recall what I said earlier, what pays for the buses are parking related revenues (meters, garages and tickets), taxi fees and bus fees, not so much taxes, not the local economy.

Don't get me wrong I'm happy to have Google employees here, I think it's fucking moronic to want them to leave. I was simply arguing the point that Google has paid for the bus stops via taxes.
 
Thuleman said:
It's a far reach in terms of whether or not Google pays taxes, but for practical purposes (income into SF's coffers) it's quite identical.

If it weren't for Silicon Valley SF wouldn't have much going for it in terms of local economy. Those salaries that are paid out to tech workers are spent on goods and services in SF, so while Google doesn't pay taxes to the City of SF it is not unreasonable to argue that the SF economy (those businesses which do actually pay tax to SF) would not be in the decent place that it is if it weren't for the Google Bus.
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Holy shit.
 
I am just waiting for google to move to a much more business friendly state where they will be welcome with open arms and where they would even have special spots for their buses. I dont know why they put up with the BS, its not like they dont have the money to relocate and dont have job that are so desireable that people would be willing to relocate anywhere in the country to work for them.
 
Evil Scooter said:
People in this area just do not take lightly to anyone who is successful... well.. except for Steve Jobs and the retarded politicians they keep voting into office. But I digress. The prevailing mindset is anyone who made it to the middle class in these parts must have taken advantage of someone... so the field needs to be leveled and they owe something to the huddles masses for their hard efforts and "success". .

Think these protesters are retarded? Take a look at the local gubberment. In Google's home town the city council is seriously entertaining turning the streets that lead to Google, Microsoft and the otehr tech companies in that area into toll roads. I sh*t you not. These effin lunatics will not be happy until they have driven every business out of the state and turned it into Detroit. And of course when the predictable outcome of their lunacy sets in they will all sit about blaming everyone but themselves for the mess. In case you had not noticed, personal responsibility ain't too prevalent a trait among these idiots.

:rolleyes:
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The problem is that they hold some of the best real estate in the county hostage. And chicks don't care about the stuff you said but they care about living in a place that's cool or exclusive. Since the view will trump the state of the city, the city will need to become one heck of a cesspool before they hit bottom.
 
demingo said:
Detroit is going to be a cash cow. Land there is extremely cheap now. If I had the time I would start buying up parcels of land there. Real Estate is a limited commodity. Sooner or later those prices are going to go up. Way up.
Click to expand...

Merc1138 said:
Yeah. You go and buy up large parcels of land around Detroit and let us know how removing the... "undesirables" works out for you.

Even if you could buy up enough land there(or enough groups buy up enough land there), and you managed to kick out all of the drug addicts, drug dealers, gang members, and the criminal element in general, you've still got the local politicians who created policies that drove off businesses in the first place. The only way it'd work is to buy off the entire city and turn it into some sort of utopian fortress like Delta City from the original robocop movies, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

It's actually funny how even in the 80's, the problems in Detroit were so obvious that it was an easy target for satire in movies like that.
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Yeah, Detroit City's problems go back to the late 70's and the economic condition of the surround region and industries is only a minor player in its issues. A lot of people who've seen the 'tour of Detroit' youtubes and the like think the situation is from recent troubled times and expect a rebound. A lot of outsiders bought up properties. They are going to be waiting a long time for a payoff.
 
potency said:
^This wrong from so many angles. This isn't how things work. Taxes paid entitle NO ONE to special privileges. No one likes a sense of entitlement, except for those that feel entitled.

I'm not really sure how I feel about the actual issue at hand either way as I need more info, but using taxes to justify anything is just wrong.
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True re. taxes. Except Google has a business agreement with the city, and specifically pays for use of the bus stops. I don't know exactly how much they pay, allegedly $1/day/stop, but the problem to me isn't that a business that can afford it can pay to use public bus stops--I'm fine with that--but it should not interfere with the public mass transit.

One thing that a lot of people are ignoring is that a number of the daily GBus users do not live in SF; Google has set up their bus pickup in SF because the city is a hub for regional mass transit via BART from the east bay (which is has a far cheaper cost of living). A lot of this discussion of revenue to SF because of taxes is irrelevant because a lot of Google workers using the bus to get to silicon valley don't even live in (or spend money in) SF.

I live on the peninsuala of the bay area. There is a severe lack of adequate public transportation, much as with the rest of the country, except maybe NYC's subway system. Hell, even taking the bus/MUNI system WITHIN SF if you live in one part of the city and work in another can take up to 45 minutes during morning commute times. 45 minutes to go 5 miles via public transportation. That's absurd.

Here's my take on it; if google wants to have their own private public transportation/commute options in order to retain top talent, and they want convenient pick-up locations in various public transportation hubs in SF and other cities, they can also afford to compensate FAIRLY. That's one of the things that this pilot program was set-up to determine--how well this sort of thing can work, and what amount of money is necessary/fair to carry it out. Google is not the only company participating in this.
 
teh_chem said:
One thing that a lot of people are ignoring is that a number of the daily GBus users do not live in SF; Google has set up their bus pickup in SF because the city is a hub for regional mass transit via BART from the east bay (which is has a far cheaper cost of living). A lot of this discussion of revenue to SF because of taxes is irrelevant because a lot of Google workers using the bus to get to silicon valley don't even live in (or spend money in) SF.
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they also have buses in the eastbay. The activist are hating that google employees not only are having these buses picking them up but are also dramatically raising the rents on the areas immediately around the stops. If google was located in an area which was served by bart and they did not have the buses then the activist would not have something to specifically target like the bus.

I am amused at all the comments on the link in the OP since they keep talking about how the people working for google represent the elite when there are TONS of people who work in fields like finance that make WAY more money than the average google employees yet nothing is said about them.
 
I think Google should fight back, but not in the courts or city gov't. Google should treat this kind of childish protest with the disregard it deserves by equipping it's buses with squirt gun turrets, so those employees already on the bus can defend their coworkers against the protesters. In addition to being hilarious it would also be a great team building exercise.
 
jpm100 said:
Yeah, Detroit City's problems go back to the late 70's and the economic condition of the surround region and industries is only a minor player in its issues. A lot of people who've seen the 'tour of Detroit' youtubes and the like think the situation is from recent troubled times and expect a rebound. A lot of outsiders bought up properties. They are going to be waiting a long time for a payoff.
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Blacks (the ones who destroyed Detroit and the city government) still run the city so once whitey comes running back to profit off the dirt cheap real estate the city will take advantage of that.
 
d1nxt said:
I am just waiting for google to move to a much more business friendly state where they will be welcome with open arms and where they would even have special spots for their buses. I dont know why they put up with the BS, its not like they dont have the money to relocate and dont have job that are so desireable that people would be willing to relocate anywhere in the country to work for them.
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You know Google is where it is because where it is, not because of the friendliness, kind of like why some companies will stay on Wall Street... it ain't because NYC is a business friendly city with low tax rates and ample services for employees.

And FFS, this is an issue in San Francisco, that's a city in case you didn't know, not an issue in the entire state, Google buses do go to other cities it's just SF has the loudest most annoying protestors which make up a tiny tiny TINY part of the population.
 
... oh and Google isn't in San Francisco either. They're not putting up with anything, they have a bus company they charter service from and slap their stickers on the side of the bus for advertising.
 
sfsuphysics said:
You know Google is where it is because where it is, not because of the friendliness, kind of like why some companies will stay on Wall Street... it ain't because NYC is a business friendly city with low tax rates and ample services for employees.

And FFS, this is an issue in San Francisco, that's a city in case you didn't know, not an issue in the entire state, Google buses do go to other cities it's just SF has the loudest most annoying protestors which make up a tiny tiny TINY part of the population.
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Google located in Mountain View because its in Silicon Valley. They located Google in silicon valley for 2 main reasons which are having access to investment capital when they were just starting out and because of the highly educated human capital. Both of which are extremely important to companies but at this point I believe Google could pretty much be headquartered anywhere and they would have countless people who would be willing to relocate just to work for them and investment capital is not an issue these days for them.
 
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