ZeniMax Suing John Carmack And Oculus Rift?

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
According to this Wall Street Journal article, John Carmack and Oculus Rift have been put on notice by ZeniMax's legal team. :eek: Thanks to everyone that sent this one in.

In recent weeks, lawyers for ZeniMax have sent two letters each to Oculus and Facebook, saying former ZeniMax employee John Carmack, who joined Oculus last August, improperly took ZeniMax's intellectual property with him to Oculus, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. That technology, the company claims, propelled Oculus from a shoestring startup to technology's big leagues in less than two years.
Click to expand...
 
Cerulean said:
ZeniMax vs Facebook

I think I know who will win. :D
Click to expand...

Not sure I'd be so sure of that. ZeniMax (owner: id Software, Bethesda Studios, ZeniMax Online, etc) are not exactly small fries. They are a multi-billion-dollar-company, themselves. Not as MANY billions as Facebook, granted, but not exactly dwarfed in comparison to them...
 
Everyone wants to get a piece if the pie!
 
I always wondered how this worked in reality. Say you innovate a product, and down the road, don't like how management or your engineering team is handling the development of your idea. Barring a non-compete clause in your employment, what's to stop you from leaving and going to a company that's easier for you to work with? I understand the concept of the company you work for owning the rights to the IP, but they can't own the rights to your imagination.
 
Its fun to see they didn't sue them for the last 2 years while this was happening but waited until facebook bought them and they could get more money.
 
That technology, the company claims, propelled Oculus from a shoestring startup to technology's big leagues in less than two years.
Click to expand...
I seriously wonder what possible technologies Carmack took with him from ID/Zenimax. IIRC, Carmack hasn't done much development or programming for several years and mainly did management of ID. I thought all he did for Oculus was be a big name to bring in investors and a little management work also.

Money can also take a "shoestring" startup to bigtime real quick. Wasn't the kickstarter and John Carmack's joining about the same time 2 years ago?
 
Sounds like the old Motorola versus Blackberry lawsuit where RIM sat on their patent and waited until Motorola was able to make a killing on their device before swooping in for the kill.

Why did Zenimax wait until Oculus become "big league" before making the lawsuit?
 
they need to get that doom 4 development cash from somewhere...

I can't read the article easily, so correct me if I'm wrong... didn't John help oculus before id was bought by zenimaxipad? or does that not matter somehow?
 
If it goes to trial I'm going to cancel my TESO subscription. John Carmack > just about anyone.
 
Azhar said:
Sounds like the old Motorola versus Blackberry lawsuit where RIM sat on their patent and waited until Motorola was able to make a killing on their device before swooping in for the kill.

Why did Zenimax wait until Oculus become "big league" before making the lawsuit?
Click to expand...

You know what, I think the rules should change, where if the company is already big, it should be too late, or the ruling shouldn't be able to get money from profits that are gained so late.
 
I can't read the article due to login/paywall, but didn't John Carmak leave id/Zenimax precisely because they weren't interested in VR, specifically what he went full-time at Oculus to do? Doesn't this suggest that the company didn't have any interest in whatever tech he's working on at Oculus?
 
With the recent bitterness I have about them selling out to Facebook, is anyone else happy about this lawsuit?
 
striker444 said:
With the recent bitterness I have about them selling out to Facebook, is anyone else happy about this lawsuit?
Click to expand...

That buyout means that I don't give a crap what happens to Oculus Rift itself, but I still have a good deal of respect for Carmack, and I think non-compete clauses are ridiculous and unacceptable and would be okay with them being made illegal. Patents already exist; if someone copies your design, sue them. If you can't sue them under patent law, then your non-compete agreement shouldn't apply to begin with.
 
What ZeniMax is saying is the truth but I don't think they have a legitimate claim. They should have listened to the man instead of pushing him out.
 
EODetroit said:
If it goes to trial I'm going to cancel my TESO subscription. John Carmack > just about anyone.
Click to expand...

Idolizing some random guy that programmed the same FPS 3D shooter over and over again seems weird. Also, he wasn't the only one in the credits of the games his company vomited on the market.
 
This will be interesting to see where it goes. Non-competes have been on shakey legal grounds (or so it seens)

I hope oculus rift wins and zenimax loses provided carmack didn't do anything unethical.
 
PornoSatan said:
Doom 3 was pretty good. Don't know about the rest though, didn't play them because I heard they were so shit. :p
Click to expand...

im pretty sure quake 4 was decent game.. atleast i liked it, though it was made by raven softwware i believe. rage was ok. The shooting part felt solid like id's game, but everything else wasnt too good.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
I seriously wonder what possible technologies Carmack took with him from ID/Zenimax. IIRC, Carmack hasn't done much development or programming for several years and mainly did management of ID. I thought all he did for Oculus was be a big name to bring in investors and a little management work also.

Money can also take a "shoestring" startup to bigtime real quick. Wasn't the kickstarter and John Carmack's joining about the same time 2 years ago?
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I don't believe ZeniMax has done any kind of hardware R&D.

I wonder technology, too, that ZeniMax is claiming. VR tech for a ZeniMax game?
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
I seriously wonder what possible technologies Carmack took with him from ID/Zenimax. IIRC, Carmack hasn't done much development or programming for several years and mainly did management of ID. I thought all he did for Oculus was be a big name to bring in investors and a little management work also.

Money can also take a "shoestring" startup to bigtime real quick. Wasn't the kickstarter and John Carmack's joining about the same time 2 years ago?
Click to expand...

no, while his name probably does help them out. He has done some hardware help. If i remember the story correctly: Before he left id, he got a prototype unit in from occulus. Liked it, but noticed input lag. Modified the prototype with his own stuff (hardware and software) and reduced the input lag by like half or more ( i think it was down to 50ms) He sent them the details and how to get much lower, and the rest is history in him joining Oculus.

PS: It really sounds like some type of bad blood there between Zenimax and Carmack. Carmack said he waited to stay and work with id as an advisory role before he totally left, but zenimax wouldnt have it.
 
Whats another good article to read? Because I don't have a Wall Street Journal subscription (thank god).
 
striker444 said:
With the recent bitterness I have about them selling out to Facebook, is anyone else happy about this lawsuit?
Click to expand...

I hated its owner's decision to sell out to Facebook, but I cannot doubt that Occulus is probably still the best game in town.

Zenimax is no better than Facebook in my eye after what they did to Elder Scroll franchise with TESO :p
 
Wildace said:
Carmack hasn't been relevant in years, he is a has-been
Click to expand...
You could tell he wasn't too thrilled with the going-ons at id, and designing the next game engine for yet another run-and-gun shooter just didn't allow him to focus on doing anything revolutionary. I mean, cellphone games and MegaTexture were an attempt to try and curb his need to do something new and challenging, but even he seemed on the fence about whether or not it was really worth it.

I'm glad he is now with Oculus and trying to help bring a new revolution to gaming. Even if he's just doing low-level optimization, that's the stuff he seems to enjoy and do best at.

ZeniMax seem bitter about losing Carmack. Carmack seems like he doesn't give a shit:

No work I have ever done has been patented. Zenimax owns the code that I wrote, but they don't own VR.
Click to expand...
 
Youn said:
I'm glad he is now with Oculus and trying to help bring a new revolution to gaming.
Click to expand...

A new revolution that's been done before and failed. The only reason why FB wanted the buy Oculus was so they could springboard development in a Google Glass competitor. Building up hype through gaming is totally secondary to their goal and may only last until they can quietly slip their new assets out of media attention so people don't notice or remember the acquisition.
 
"done before and failed" is really not a good argument as there are many MANY more people who are enjoying VR now.

You may be right about the other stuff, I just meant I'm only excited about VR for games. Of course there may be other applications targeting a wider audience. I'm still skeptical how successful it'll all be, only time will tell, but I'd rather a guy like Carmack do this than idtechX
 
TwistedAegis said:
This. Rage. Quake 4. Doom 3. :eek:
Click to expand...

I enjoyed all of these. Thoroughly. They weren't their best games, but they weren't bad either. The hate for Rage is also a bit overplayed. It had huge issues for some people, but it wasn't a bad game once resolved. It could have been better, but it was still fun. id games are id games. People expecting something different from them is silly. You want BF4, go play BF4. If you're an id fan I don't see how any of those games disappoint.

Sorry for the OT.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top