'The Elder Scrolls Online' Hit With First Major Bug

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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The Elder Scrolls Online is facing a dilemma of ballooning proportions: Inflation. Something you rarely see in online gaming, but ‘The Infinite Dupe’ as it is being dubbed, is making the stockpiles of ‘gold’ relatively worthless. It just goes to prove gaming can be just like real life. :D

Obviously, this is wreaking havoc on the game as now money and items are relatively worthless with so much gold flooding the economy.
 
This was happening in beta... its their own fault for not catching it before release, it was reported.
 
How does a bug from Diablo 1 days keep finding it's way back to games?!?!?

Should be Muliplayer Game Programming 101 material by now.
 
How does a bug from Diablo 1 days keep finding it's way back to games?!?!?

Should be Muliplayer Game Programming 101 material by now.

And Asherons Call, and...Seems like the dupe bug is always around.
 
With the monthly payments and paywalls in the game, I can't see Elder Scrolls Online lasting.
 
So beta testers found and reported the bug and they didn't even bother to fix it for release. That is one of the reasons I've decided to avoid this mess of a game.
 
And Asherons Call, and...Seems like the dupe bug is always around.
In Final Fantasy XI, a dupe bug a few years ago where a player can duplicate rare drops from an endgame area, Salvage, led to the banning of hundreds of players after Salvage logs were looked at. Yes, they monitor and log everything that happens in the game as you play especially when dealing with RMT players. Majority were permanently banned as a result for exploiting the bug. Very few were temporarily banned. Not only that, those who were picked up as a random member to the group that exploited the bans were banned themselves because of association, even if they were not aware of any party member using the dupe bug.

The ones exploiting the bug most often were endgame Linkshells with hardcore players in it. You can guess what happened as a result of that. Dozens upon dozens of endgame Linkshells on many servers died because of the mass banning. Those that were not banned but having seen a lot of their Linkshell members disappear over night upped and quit. A large chunk of endgame players along with their either hard-earned or ill-gotten endgame gear disappeared off the server. One notable one was on the server I currently play on and had every job (at that time) at level 75 cap and nearly a dozen Relic weapons (high end weapons at that time).

A lot of players expressed anger at Square-Enix for the mass bannings because it meant years of in-game work building up a character for endgame just disappeared. Others were actually happy about this because illegitimate items you never bothered to work hard for it and took the easy way out got their justified karma. There were others that were mad at Square-Enix for another reason-- the only reason these dupes were found and exploited was because of how ridiculously low the drop rate is to get the items necessary to get a Salvage armor upgrade completed. You can be either very lucky or very unlucky in Salvage back then.

I never knew about this dupe bug until the mass bannings were announced on the PlayOnline website for the game. I was in a static Salvage group at the time and we didn't even know about it. To put it in perspective: In our group, we averaged a very rare drop of one of the items necessary for an armor upgrade every 3 to 5 months. It took me to complete just the body piece of one Salvage armor a year and a half to finish. Those that exploited the dupe bug could complete the armor within one to three months. If it drops and shows up in the Treasure Pool, it is duplicated X-number of times for each party member that wanted it.

It also damaged the economy in many ways. Since this was exploited mostly by endgame Linkshells, they also had the most money in the game per member. The crafted materials required to complete one Salvage armor piece would cost up to several millions of Gil (the game currency) total. The endgame Linkshell members kept the price high and they controlled the prices across the server. So, in a way, the only major players that could get a Salvage armor completed is if you were in an endgame Linkshell and not in a static group like mine was. It kept these super exclusive to the very privileged on the server. Endgame Linkshells also made money off of this by selling the drops to whoever is picked up by the group and entering Salvage

A good number of the per server population disappeared after the bannings. Many endgame Linkshells died or reformed, while many endgame players quit permanently.

This was not the only dupe bug or money exploitation bug in FFXI either.

When Chains of Promathia expansion pack was released, a very easy to use exploit was found. If you bought a specific item from an NPC and resold it, the item in question would sell back for several times the amount the NPC sold it to you originally. Those that exploited it were either permanently banned or had their account rolled back to the last back up, which is usually a week before.

Whenever an exploit or bug is found in the game, it is almost always reported to Square-Enix whether on their forum, e-mail, or to a GM. It is then investigated which takes quite some time. Afterwards, SE will announce an update and patch the bug. I would have to assume that it takes no more than 3 months to get a response from Square-Enix and a fix at the same time. I'd say fastest was less than a week or less than a month. I remember when there was a bug in these instanced battlefields called BCNMs where players would get 100% of every drop from the fight in their Treasure Pool, or items that shouldn't have been possibly obtained by that BCNM. Once it was reported, all BCNM areas were shutdown for maintenance and fixed immediately. I am unsure if any accounts got theirs rolled back or banned permanently for abusing it.

Now, to hear that Zenimax Online has known about this bug since beta testing and has not fixed it even after launch, it just shows irresponsibility on the part of the company. This is either because of their inexperience due to being a relatively new subsidiary of Zenimax, or inattention and ignorance by the developers and the company itself. I may not like Square-Enix for a lot of their poor decisions in the past several years for FFXI and their non-MMORPG games, but at the very least they are pretty attentive in fixing exploits and bugs in the game as soon as they are reported. (Though I wish they were more adamant and diligent in fixing other problems in the game that hasn't been fixed since launch such as the random crashes for 360 users when in a certain area or the PS2-like graphics that they continue to keep when other MMOs like EVE Online and World of Warcraft continue to improve theirs.)
 
Yeah bugs, paywalls within paywalls. You pay to play the game, right? You buy the game, get your month of game time, right? But you have to have the Collectors Edition to be able to access the Imperial Race. So basically you're not getting all the content you're supposed to for your monthly fee. That's why I'm not interested in the Elder Scrolls.
 
Yeah bugs, paywalls within paywalls. You pay to play the game, right? You buy the game, get your month of game time, right? But you have to have the Collectors Edition to be able to access the Imperial Race. So basically you're not getting all the content you're supposed to for your monthly fee. That's why I'm not interested in the Elder Scrolls.

where you been for the last 15+years of MMO's EQ,asherons call, wow, ultima online, DAOC many others you had to buy the game then pay for a monthly sub.

Want to play a death knight or panda in WOW have to buy the expansions etc.


so many noobs thinking this is just new with ESO.
 
where you been for the last 15+years of MMO's EQ,asherons call, wow, ultima online, DAOC many others you had to buy the game then pay for a monthly sub.

Want to play a death knight or panda in WOW have to buy the expansions etc.


so many noobs thinking this is just new with ESO.
Most of those games are already failing cause of this reason. With the exception of WoW, but that's slowly working it's way into that direction. When the next expansion for WoW is released, I won't be getting it for that reason. Same reason why locking Imperial Race to Collector's Edition will cause me not to get the game.

Paying $60 for instant level 90 crossed the line for me in WoW. Locking Imperial Race to Collector's Edition was a stupid move, and I'll never look at that game until they fix the problem. I also don't feel like paying $15 anymore for a game I already payed for.

ESO will end up like all other MMO's. No players and begging for money. Keep in mind that in multiplayer games, players are content.
 
And comes the infinite bans, followed by the infinite bitching about people paying for the game and paying for subscriptions, and infinite threats of lawsuits...

*yawn*

There's a reason I won't pay to play anymore.
 
I refuse to pay full price for a subscription based game.

You want me to pay $15 a month? Fine, give me the game free.
You want me to pay $60+ for the game? Fine, no monthly subscription.
 
Heh, doing in a game that's only been out a week... way to keep up with your players!

I remember when the first item duping bug was found in eq, players were banned the next day!
 
I'm a little optimistic then, once this fails, they'll get the MMO sex drive purged from their system, then they'll be back to putting their efforts into TES 6.

Bethesda has been taking a turn for the dark side lately though, this and screwing Obsidian and screwing Brian Fargo's team has lowered their reputation some.
 
I can't believe people complain about monthly subs for MMO's. Companies have to pay for server hosting, GMs, ongoing development, etc, and you're going to end up paying for it somehow. I would much rather pay a flat monthly sub than ridiculous amounts of micro-transactions or worse yet, pay-to-win mechanics. Plus we're only talking about $15/mo. That's nothing compared to most hobbies, and cheaper than most pay-to-win games.
 
I'm a little optimistic then, once this fails, they'll get the MMO sex drive purged from their system, then they'll be back to putting their efforts into TES 6.

Bethesda has been taking a turn for the dark side lately though, this and screwing Obsidian and screwing Brian Fargo's team has lowered their reputation some.

Bethesda isn't doing Elder Scrolls Online. If they were, the level of neglect would be a hundred times worse.

Zenimax Media owns Bethesda Game Studios which is based in Bethesda, MD, and Zenimax Online Studios which is based 42 miles away in Hunts Valley, MD. Bethesda Game Studios develops the Elder Scrolls series, and all indications are that they are now working on Fallout 4, with TES 6 to come after that is done. Bethesda Game Studios probably has nothing whatsoever to do with Elder Scrolls Online, which is developed by Zenimax Online Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks - another subsidiary of Zenimax Media that is based in Rockville, Maryland.
 
I can't believe people complain about monthly subs for MMO's. Companies have to pay for server hosting, GMs, ongoing development, etc, and you're going to end up paying for it somehow. I would much rather pay a flat monthly sub than ridiculous amounts of micro-transactions or worse yet, pay-to-win mechanics. Plus we're only talking about $15/mo. That's nothing compared to most hobbies, and cheaper than most pay-to-win games.

Exactly.

The best pay once model I've seen so far is Guild Wars 1 and 2, but GW 2 has micro-transactions like every other MMO out there today.

I know I'm probably repeating what I've written before on other forums in regards to pay-to-win versus subscription versus F2P/microtransaction MMOs, but if you strictly play an F2P game without paying microtransactions, you will be limiting yourself in the game.

Majority if not all F2P MMOs lock out features or restrict them for users who strictly resort to not paying. Other MMOs make the game difficult to progress without going for their subscription plan or limit it to the point of being unplayable after a certain point in the game. Star Wars: The Old Republic, Star Trek Online, and The Lord of the Rings Online are good examples in this area. In SWTOR, for example, you have to either have the subscription plan OR pay in the Cartel Shop to have titles enabled, expanded guild features, expanded inventory, and so on. I thought Mabinogi Online was bad, SWTOR takes it to a whole new level.

When an F2P isn't pay-to-win but microtransaction heavy, they make sure that you come back to their store often to purchase something. For example, Nexon's Mabinogi Online has a time-restricted storage expansion with no option to permanently buy it from their online store. They also restrict customization options down to 1/3rd to what is actually available, and limit pets and mounts. These can be expanded by paying individually for each feature or pay for a bundle. They also offer a Premium and VIP Service that even goes so far to increase your proficiency by 2.5 times. It costs $1 per 1000 Nx (game shop currency). For 30 day Premium or VIP Service, you are paying 14,900 Nx, or $14.90 a month. Before this was added, players paid as much as $20 just for inventory expansion that lasted 30 days, and another $10 to $15 for expanding character customization options, pets and mounts options. Since the game has you reverting back to a younger version of yourself, you have the option to customize your character again. However, without paying for expanding customization options, you will be severely limited to what they have available to you so if you wanted more than the stock options, you will have no choice but to get something from the Web Shop.

Then, you have pay-to-win or make-your-life-difficult games. These vary from game to game. In one game, they would artificially make it difficult to get expanded features or options or limit the amount of time you can acquire them each day. Their microtransactions give you the option to either lift this limit or outright buy the expanded features or options. If you wanted to go up against another player who either has more time you or is willing to pay the extra money, expect to lose and get your ass handed to you. I know this from experience. Forza on the XONE is not one would consider pay-to-win, but they make it difficult in obtaining newer vehicles because of the extended amount of time needed to complete races to acquire them without paying. You are pretty much forced to buy the cars with real cash or spend the purposely designed gameplay to make it a long time before you can acquire a new vehicle. Gran Turismo on PS3 made a whole bunch of vehicles not available in-game in very expensive packages while also artificially limiting the number of vehicles made available in the game. The other that's rather notorious is APB: Reloaded. The better weapons, gear and vehicles are only available in the cash shop. Dungeon Keeper by EA is another worst offender here. The time limits and the lengths of time to complete anything in the game will make your life difficult if you want to play the game. To lift such limits, expect to be spending a lot of time and money in their in-app purchases. Clash of Clans is another example with time limits. Jurassic Park app where you manage a dinosaur park is another one as well in regard to lengths of time to build things taking too long. If you don't spend the money, expect to spend a lot of time to get anything done-- your village getting raided, dinosaurs starving, or your choke point in the dungeon getting destroyed before it's completed. Practically every iOS and Android game suffers from this greedy travesty.

League of Legends and Path of Exile surprisingly does F2P correctly given the nature of both of these games. TERA Online does this to a certain degree given that the majority of the items in their cash shop are purely cosmetic. Elsword Online is another one where the majority of the items are cosmetic and not game breaking.

Of course, you get F2P games where they make really valuable items stupidly hard to obtain like winning the jackpot in a casino. Many if not all Korean F2Ps are like this with their "Gacha" items. Pangya, for example, offer Gacha, Scratchy, and Papel Shop to get rare items. However, when it's rare, it's stupidly fucking rare. Gacha offers what one would call the normal and high-quality versions of the same item. You may end up getting the normal quality item more often but expect to pay a lot for Gacha coins to get the very rare high-quality items.

So, there are options for an MMO/multiplayer game:
  • Play an MMO completely free but restricted by time limits, features, options, and items. (i.e.- LOTRO, SWTOR, STO, Mabinogi Online, Dungeon Keeper)
  • Play an MMO and pay a subscription fee but have half the options and features available unless you get them in the cash shop.
  • Play an MMO and pay only for the game with no subscription fee but having to buy something in the cash shop to expand something in the game. (i.e.- Guild Wars 2)
  • Play an MMO completely free or pay for the game but have only the rare and exclusive items available only in a cash shop, DLC or other microtransaction. (i.e.- Forza 5, Gran Turismo 4, Pangya)
  • Play an MMO and only purchase comsetic items or items that give you permanent access to them. (i.e.- League of Legends, Path of Exile, TERA Online, Elsword Online)
  • Play an MMO, pay a subscription fee, but get restricted on certain things unless you buy a higher priced version of the game. (i.e.- Elder Scrolls Online at $15.99 a month and the Imperial race exclusive only to the Collector's/Digital Deluxe edition of the game.)
  • Play an MMO, get your ass handed to you in a PvP/multiplayer match against someone that has money to spend on the cash shop rather than spend the time getting the same item, unless it's only exclusive to the cash shop. (i.e.- APB Reloaded, and to a degree, Warthunder and World of Tanks)
  • Play an MMO, pay for the game, pay for the subscription fee and get a complete game. (i.e.- Final Fantasy XI, Final Fantasy XIV to a degree seeing that they award you for maintaining consecutive subscription service of 30, 60, or 90 days.)
On one hand, you play a very cockblocked game-- purely F2P.

On the other hand, expect to pay anywhere from $10 to $500 (or more, yes more depending on the game and rarity of the items like Gacha) to get features unlocked on a monthly basis or get access to rare and exclusive and/or time-limited items.

Or, get the game, pay for it, pay for the subscription fee, and be happy they're offering practically 99% of the game to you, shut the fuck up and be happy.

So, which one would you people prefer?

And, believe me-- someone has to pay for something even in a completely free game, whether that is an F2P MMO or a cheap ass app for iOS or Android.

Operating costs plus support services for MMOs run in the millions to tens of millions of dollars a month. A leaked financial report for Nexon revealed they pay around $1 million US just for server operation and maintenance for one region. This does not include everything else that's needed to maintain the game such as developers and testers, utilities, etc. Someone has to pay for it even in a free-to-play game.

I posted this in another MMO forum for FFXI as estimating what's needed for FFXIV ARR v2.0 for Square-Enix to make money out of it using $1 million US as the basis for server maintenance: (Other costs being utilities, developers, testers, marketing, etc., and as such my estimations may be completely off.)
Code:
At $1 mil. server costs + $5 mil. other costs: $6 million a month
    464,000 players needed in one month.
 
At $1 mil. server costs + $3 mil. other costs: $4 million a month
    309,000 players needed in one month.
 
At $1 mil. server costs + $2 mil. other costs: $3 million a month
    232,000 players needed in one month.
But, this is just to give you perspective. The above was using $12.95 a month for a single character on one server. Imagine how many players it would take to pay for maintaining an F2P MMO with operating and maintenance costs at $5 million or more per month, and how many of those players have to pay or buy something in a cash shop, DLC, or other microtransaction. An F2P MMO company will easily meet or exceed minimum operating costs and expenses if someone pays on average no less than $12 to $15 in their cash shop per month if their playerbase totals no less than 400,000 players actively playing and buying each month.

Not everything is entirely free. Keep that in mind.
 
How can this ruin ESO's economy when ESO doesn't really have an economy? There's no AH, no trade channel, and gold doesn't really do much for you anyways. That seems to be by design to minimize the impact of these kinds of exploits, gold farming, etc.
 
I'm surprised companies are still trying to make new MMOs. They're like a 1995-2005 era thing and I really feel like we've gotten pretty much past that fad. Most of the existing MMOs are kinda falling apart and the new ones usually only last a very short period of time before they pretty much implode and get turned off.

I think ESO is really too late, doesn't give players anything new, and is made by a company well-known for like having the same three voice actors doing everything for the last 15 years while not really getting around to fixing all the bugs in their games until 2 years after release. Who would pay them money now except people who don't know any better?
 
I can't believe people complain about monthly subs for MMO's. Companies have to pay for server hosting, GMs, ongoing development, etc, and you're going to end up paying for it somehow. I would much rather pay a flat monthly sub than ridiculous amounts of micro-transactions or worse yet, pay-to-win mechanics. Plus we're only talking about $15/mo. That's nothing compared to most hobbies, and cheaper than most pay-to-win games.
WoW has already incorperated pay to win mechanics into their game for a while. Realm transfers are expensive, and if you're new to WoW then the realm they stick you in is likely dead. But Blizzard makes a boat load of money off realm transfers, race changes, name changes, and now instant level 90.

So why is the price still $15, when they have a huge source of income outside monthly payments? Not to forget vanity pets and mounts that they also sell in the game. Especially when you consider...

#1 Server costs for other games are free, like Guild Wars 2.
#2 You payed $40 for the expansion which means you payed for the content. They just didn't develop it yet.
#3 $15 is very steep when you consider things like Netflix and Hulu are cheaper then that. People are cutting cable TV for something like $15/m.

So when I hear ESO has locked the imperial race to the "Pay more Money" Edition, then I can't help but think that we're responsible for this. There are people willing to pay money for this, and I won't have a part in this. I will vote with my dollar by not buying the game,
 
Bethseda responded that they will ban every player that did this.
 
I can't believe people complain about monthly subs for MMO's. Companies have to pay for server hosting, GMs, ongoing development, etc, and you're going to end up paying for it somehow. I would much rather pay a flat monthly sub than ridiculous amounts of micro-transactions or worse yet, pay-to-win mechanics. Plus we're only talking about $15/mo. That's nothing compared to most hobbies, and cheaper than most pay-to-win games.
How about GW2? New free content often, fast excellent servers, and no subscription model. You pay once for the game, and you are golden. Its completely possible to make a triple A title MMO without a subscription model.
 
I lost alot of good years of my life to MMO's. They used to be like crack and had me hooked onto the monthly subscription.

I played DAOC, Shadowbane and WoW mainly and tried almost everything in between. I invested so much time to get my toons the best shit only to have it become obsolete by the next expansion.

I personally will never ever play or buy anything that has a monthly subscription attached to it.
 
How about GW2? New free content often, fast excellent servers, and no subscription model. You pay once for the game, and you are golden. Its completely possible to make a triple A title MMO without a subscription model.

Not only do you have to pay for a game you also have micro transactions on top of the subscription price. In this case its $180 a year just for the sub. Obviously that person has way to much entertainment money to spend on just one game. If that's what he enjoys good for him but just putting it into perspective. To rich for my blood with a gazzillion other things to entertain me that are much cheaper.
 
WoW has already incorperated pay to win mechanics into their game for a while. Realm transfers are expensive, and if you're new to WoW then the realm they stick you in is likely dead. But Blizzard makes a boat load of money off realm transfers, race changes, name changes, and now instant level 90.

Nothing you listed has anything to do with "Pay to Win".

Most who are "new to WoW" are joining whatever realm their friends are on, not letting the game randomly select a server for them. Also, realms are becoming increasingly less relevant as more of the game becomes cross-realm capable.

Race changes? Name Changes? Do you even know what "Pay to Win" means?

Instant level 90? The whole relevant game is at level cap; always has been. It's not like they start with epic gear. With tons of 90's flooding BGs, etc in full greens, it's almost like they are paying me to win :D
 
Nothing you listed has anything to do with "Pay to Win".
Realm transfers and instant level 90 isn't pay to win for you?
Most who are "new to WoW" are joining whatever realm their friends are on, not letting the game randomly select a server for them. Also, realms are becoming increasingly less relevant as more of the game becomes cross-realm capable.
Not everyone joins WoW with a friend, and not everyone stick with their friends in game.
Race changes? Name Changes? Do you even know what "Pay to Win" means?
Race changing is just another method to instant 90. Name changing is a terrible tool that allows players to run around the game being a jerk, and when they have created a terrible name for themselves, they pay a small fee to change their name. Instead of leveling another character.

[Omipally] whispers: you weren't that jerk off racist druid silvermoose?
[Whitemoose] whispers: oh no, I'm a totally new druid
[Omipally] whispers: oh good, come heal
[Whitemoose] whispers: I fucked your mom!

Instant level 90? The whole relevant game is at level cap; always has been. It's not like they start with epic gear. With tons of 90's flooding BGs, etc in full greens, it's almost like they are paying me to win :D

It's avoiding the core issue of the game, in that leveling is boring and a waste of time. But leveling is essential, cause it helps teach the player how to play their class. It also ensures that other players don't have to deal with super bad players. It's probably why they introduced proving grounds, but it's no substitute. It's also an insult to those that have taken the time to properly level their character.

But yea, quests are mindless and boring. They really have to step up their quest design. How many wild animals have they sent you to kill? Riveting shit right? For my next trick, go collect 10 items off enemy bodies.

You are paying money for game content that is so bad, that you wanna pay to skip it. That makes sense to you? You know, instead of them going back and fixing their quest design? Which one seems to put more money in their pockets? ;)
 
Realm transfers and instant level 90 isn't pay to win for you?

No. What does it matter what realm you're on other than being able to play with friends in certain contexts or not? Instant 90 isn't "Pay to Win" because you don't win anything by being 90; the whole relevant game is still ahead of you at that point. Also, it's no coincidence that they are only allowing instant 90's at the very end of MoP. All of those toons will still have to level to 100 before the next raid tier.

Not everyone joins WoW with a friend, and not everyone stick with their friends in game.

True, but considering it's a 10 year old game at this point, it really is about playing with friends for most people.

Race changing is just another method to instant 90.

Which gains you nothing compared to other 90's in epic gear.

Name changing is a terrible tool that allows players to run around the game being a jerk, and when they have created a terrible name for themselves, they pay a small fee to change their name. Instead of leveling another character.

[Omipally] whispers: you weren't that jerk off racist druid silvermoose?
[Whitemoose] whispers: oh no, I'm a totally new druid
[Omipally] whispers: oh good, come heal
[Whitemoose] whispers: I fucked your mom!

If you put someone on ignore, them changing their name won't remove them from your list, so how sorry should I really feel for someone too stupid to use ignore? Either way, changing your name still has nothing to do with Pay to Win.

It's avoiding the core issue of the game, in that leveling is boring and a waste of time. But leveling is essential, cause it helps teach the player how to play their class. It also ensures that other players don't have to deal with super bad players. It's probably why they introduced proving grounds, but it's no substitute

It's why they waited until the very end of MoP to do it. All those instant 90's will still have to level to 100 before the next raid tier.

You are paying money for game content that is so bad, that you wanna pay to skip it. That makes sense to you? You know, instead of them going back and fixing their quest design? Which one seems to put more money in their pockets? ;)

Most people who skip leveling are doing so to get a jump-start on playing with their friends. When all your friends are already 90, your choices are to basically level alone, or beg them to start a new character and level with you. Most 90's at this point are starting to look toward WoD not the prospect of going back into old content for a week or two. Leveling alone is lame. On the flip side, if you have a friend to level with, leveling can be fun and pretty quick too. I have several toons at 90 now that got there for no other reason than helping friends level.
 
No. What does it matter what realm you're on other than being able to play with friends in certain contexts or not? Instant 90 isn't "Pay to Win" because you don't win anything by being 90; the whole relevant game is still ahead of you at that point. Also, it's no coincidence that they are only allowing instant 90's at the very end of MoP. All of those toons will still have to level to 100 before the next raid tier.
Leveling is one of 3 key issues with WoW. Probably applies to most MMO's. I think it's safe to say that everyone hates to level. It's meant to prolong your stay in WoW, to collect the monthly subscription fees. It's also unfair to those leveling their characters. Have you ever quested and then suddenly a level 90 flies down and instantly kills you? Instant 90's don't mean instant professions, so a lot of people are back tracking to farm materials to level professions. And most of those people don't mind taking the time to kill you. It's not fair for those that wanna take the time to level.

The second issues is cost. As cheap as $15 may seem, it does add up over time.
About $60 for all the expansions as well as MoP.
$15 x 12 month = $180
It costs $240 a year to play a game that's 10 years old? WTF? And Warlords of Draenor is going to be $50 when released. For a game that reuses most of it's old content. How many mobs reuse animations, models, and recolored textures? It's not a totally new game, it's mostly reused content you've already seen.

Finally, class balance. For whatever reason, Blizzard is probably only good at balancing their budget, but not classes. This game seems to go through a period of time when they give certain classes the right to be over tuned. There's only about 1 or 2 classes that are like this at any given time in an expansion, but it sucks to be everyone else not playing that class.

Just no, they screwed up too much. Unless they substantially drop the monthly fee, I have no interest in continuing MMO's. They are design to suck money from people, and nothing more.
 
I'm fine paying $15/month if the MMO is good. It's more fun for me to play a game that isn't pay to win.

P.S. Leveling is literally the only part of WoW I ever liked, they've made it so easy now there is literally no game left.
 
Every MMO has this at some point. You can never be bug free and people will always find that one bug to exploit and ruin the economy. At that point it comes down to how proactive the game maker is with fixing and enforcing.

In Final Fantasy XI, a dupe bug a few years ago where a player can duplicate rare drops from an endgame area, Salvage, led to the banning of hundreds of players after Salvage logs were looked at. Yes, they monitor and log everything that happens in the game as you play especially when dealing with RMT players. Majority were permanently banned as a result for exploiting the bug. Very few were temporarily banned. Not only that, those who were picked up as a random member to the group that exploited the bans were banned themselves because of association, even if they were not aware of any party member using the dupe bug

I remember that...good times. My shell was surprisingly not hit by it considering our endgame status, but then again we were concentrating on relic weapon development and HNM endgame.
 
[*] Play an MMO and pay only for the game with no subscription fee but having to buy something in the cash shop to expand something in the game. (i.e.- Guild Wars 2)

You don't have to spend any cash in GW2's gem store. You can buy gems with in-game gold, and you get some for every 5,000 exp. Most of the stuff in the gem store is purely cosmetic; it should be easy to obtain the gems to get the really useful stuff like more bank slots and character slots. Unless there's been major changes there that I'm not aware of.
 
jmilcher said:
How about GW2? New free content often, fast excellent servers, and no subscription model. You pay once for the game, and you are golden. Its completely possible to make a triple A title MMO without a subscription model.

Not only do you have to pay for a game you also have micro transactions on top of the subscription price. In this case its $180 a year just for the sub. Obviously that person has way to much entertainment money to spend on just one game. If that's what he enjoys good for him but just putting it into perspective. To rich for my blood with a gazzillion other things to entertain me that are much cheaper.

What? jmilcher is talking about Guild Wars 2. You seem to be talking about some other game entirely.
 
Bethesda isn't doing Elder Scrolls Online. If they were, the level of neglect would be a hundred times worse.

Zenimax Media owns Bethesda Game Studios which is based in Bethesda, MD, and Zenimax Online Studios which is based 42 miles away in Hunts Valley, MD. Bethesda Game Studios develops the Elder Scrolls series, and all indications are that they are now working on Fallout 4, with TES 6 to come after that is done. Bethesda Game Studios probably has nothing whatsoever to do with Elder Scrolls Online, which is developed by Zenimax Online Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks - another subsidiary of Zenimax Media that is based in Rockville, Maryland.

I know, I just think that the MMO and TES series can't be completely independent of each other. The success or failure of one will influence the other. Just look at Blizzard. Why won't they just make a Warcraft 4?

Btw, Bethesda Softworks was the original company. They just wanted an overarching name for a cross-media company, thus Zenimax was born.

I'm fine paying $15/month if the MMO is good. It's more fun for me to play a game that isn't pay to win.

P.S. Leveling is literally the only part of WoW I ever liked, they've made it so easy now there is literally no game left.

Heh, with $15 a month you could play a pay to win game and pay $15 a month to win without tedious grinding.
 
QA rule #1 , always try negative numbers in fields ..lol

or in this case as other said, check other games and their bugs.
 
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