Amazon Workers Reject Proposal To Form Union

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It looks like Amazon's workers won't be joining a union any time soon. Workers voted against unionizing 21 to 6.

Amazon's US employees will continue on without union representation, a group of workers from Delaware decided Wednesday night. The group, which would have been affiliated with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW), voted down the proposal to form a union. It was a 21 to 6 vote.
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The union propaganda is strong in that article. Insulting, too. The workers made their choice, don't try to spin it as if they were under duress.
 
Or Even Better...

Take the money that had been spend on both sides of the issue, and use that to increase pay and benefits maybe.
 
plupien79 said:
Or Even Better...

Take the money that had been spend on both sides of the issue, and use that to increase pay and benefits maybe.
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Their benefits are good. Their pay is above industry averages. But, I agree. This was a waste of time and money. Incentivize employment to keep the union out and everyone is happy. Well, everyone but the union who just wants to get their greasy mitts on what would be a huge cash cow for them, if they could expand within Amazon.
 
Fuck unions, good for them. They we're great when they we're needed now it's time to go.

The company I used to work for had a union and people didn't like it so they voted to leave the union.
Vote succeeded but the union said it wasn't valid because apparently people we're paid off or whatever.
They did another vote, succeeded again and were finally able to leave it.

Company I currently work for paid people from other company to come and picket in front of my company, no kidding, there was only one guy who actually wanted the union at first but they put so much pressure AND vandalism that we were force to unionize our drivers, it's bullshit , it's illegal but they have so much power that they can do whatever they want.

Last year there was a construction strike, some bosses wanted to complete the houses of people that were moving in on July 1st so they had a place to live, it was videotaped, a bunch of thugs goig there trying to convince the workers to stop working and go home and we're trying to intimidate the boss (who was cool as hell).

Anyways, I haven't heard anything positive come out of union in a very long time I'm not sure why people would even want to join one to be honest.
 
They get decent wages, great benefits, solid working conditions, there's absolutely no need for a union in a shop like that. The labour movement worked wonders in the past when labour laws were virtually non-existent but they don't serve much of a purpose in the western world now. They seem to have just become centres for organised crime now.
 
Unions are a necessary evil in some cases. Hell, I worked for one non-union place that was preaching $1.50 raises in the first year for all newhires. When it came time to pay the piper, they coughed up a whopping 15 cent raise for the year, plus made all overtime mandatory. Fuck that.
 
Ion Silverbolt said:
Unions are a necessary evil in some cases. Hell, I worked for one non-union place that was preaching $1.50 raises in the first year for all newhires. When it came time to pay the piper, they coughed up a whopping 15 cent raise for the year, plus made all overtime mandatory. Fuck that.
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Mandatory overtime laws are state by state. You don't have much in the way of Federal protection.
 
Goes to show that a company run well and treating their employees and customers right can be profitable. There are many companies out there that need to take note. *cough*foxconn*cough*
 
Unions suck, I'm proud of the majority of those employees to shoot down the union idea.
 
jflail2 said:
Agreed. What was once a very useful organization, is now no longer necessary.
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While I generally agree, (I'm generally a conservative) there are certain cases where just about the only way for the employees to protest themselves is a union, and in many of those, they do not have them. There are hotels out there who pay their employees minimum wage and work them like dogs. While minimum wage jobs are really only good for teaching teens to work before they're shoved into the general workforce, there are far too many restaurants and retail jobs hiring full adults into those jobs and not paying them what they are worth.

The unions I have dealt with (grocery workers, roofers) have been horrible about protecting the poor workers (as in too protective about keeping them around) and shutting out good workers. (I got told by one potential employer, a grocery store, when I was in my early twenties that while he had wanted to hire me, the union rep told him not to because I was too young. The fact of the matter was that a couple people who worked there knew me and knew my work ethic, and likely pushed the union rep to keep me out.) The poor companies victimized by these unions are just about bankrupt these days. I don't understand why the owners don't just shut down the company rather than continue to lose money. Generally, they're rich enough to live off what they have for the rest of their lives. They simply can't compete with the non-union shops, and the employees are just not doing quality work.
 
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
 
Draax said:
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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Are you confusing At-will employment with RTW?

Source for these numbers?
 
Draax said:
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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This is the biggest problem.

It's why everyone has mesothelioma, isocyanate-induced asthma, and all kinds of job related injuries. While there a plenty of decent company owners there are just as many who are horrible horrible people who readily exploit their workers and have them work under dangerous conditions. They fight unionization to support their bottom line.

With the # of open jobs 1/2 to 1/3 that of the number of people looking for work it's not exactly like people really have a lot of choice.

Amazon may not really be a good candidate for unionized labor but there are plenty of industries that need it to protect the workers.
 
Draax said:
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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Because most of us only see the useless unions. My brother was a bagger at Vons, made less than minimum wage when he started due to union fees taken out each month. Did absolutely nothing for him except hold their hand out for money. Or how about the same unions forcing the checkers to go on strike for 2+ months, where their only option was to get paid MUCH less than normal to picket. All for a raise the probably took 2 years to cover those 2 months of lost wages.... All because the union felt the unskilled workers deserved higher wages (more union money).

While there is still a need for unions for certain work fields in certain states, most of the time it's just another chunk of your paycheck going to line someone else's pockets.....
 
Draax said:
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
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What is the source of that data? Also, on the wage question does the average pay difference take into account union dues and cost of living. Statistics without context don't mean much
 
kbrickley said:
What is the source of that data? Also, on the wage question does the average pay difference take into account union dues and cost of living. Statistics without context don't mean much
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Nor do the statistics imply that the higher wages were deserved.
 
This is all my experience, and opinion.
Unions were important in the days of the Ludlow Massacre, and the such.. But, not anymore.. Personally, I think unions are what is holding this country back. Look, of course, there are situations where they might be necessary.. I'm not saying it's ok to get your workers sick, or killed.. These things are not ok with me.
However, whenever I see a union worker, the cost is astronomical, and they do lackadaisical work. Unions killed the Javitz Center in NY, because the cost of literally "bringing something in the door" was through the roof. Why? Because everyone had to get their cut.
We exhibit at convention centers throughout the US. Nearly every single place we go, we have to pay upwards of $2k just to move our freight off the truck, and into our booth. The booth is never more than 200ft from where the truck unloads.
I always put up a stink about it, because it's ridiculous, and they always end up lowering the fee. They usually get away with it, because all the companies there are much larger than we are, and just pay the invoice. I am an able bodied man, and I am fully capable of pushing a crate that's on wheels, without the use of a forklift, let alone smelly, complaining roadies that move slower than frozen molasses.
Unions create a situation where there is absolutely no incentive to perform, and better yourself.. Only push the button the same exact amount of times every day... And demand a raise here and there, oh, and walk out when told to. What if you cannot afford to walk out? Well, then you're a scab, and the good ole boys show up with an inflatable rat .. Sponsored by your local 248...
We live in a society where survival of the fittest is certainly still in place. Sure, lending aid when possible/necessary is one thing. But, if someone is perfectly happy working for a set amount of money, let them.
 
What do you call the attitude of "I don't like something so everyone must be compelled not to do it"?
 
Aluisious said:
These threads never fail to attract fascists who don't understand the first amendment.
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:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Unions do serve some human rights purposes (primarily outside the USA) but I am not sure I would classify a union as a first amendment requirement ... the ability of workers to vote on a union is a protected ability in states that allow unions but the workers at Amazon have spoken :cool:
 
Aluisious said:
What do you call the attitude of "I don't like something so everyone must be compelled not to do it"?
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unfortunately I call that humanity ... both liberals and conservatives love to try to prohibit things they don't like

people on the internet like to talk trash as well ... there is no way unions will be "banned" in the United States so any suggestion of that is just Internet jousting ... same as the people that suggest Apple should go under, etc :cool:
 
Aluisious said:
These threads never fail to attract fascists who don't understand the first amendment.
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LOL

Letting the bloated unions die out is not the same as banning the people from peacefully assembling.

Get over yourself.

If I had said "Make unions illegal and while you're at it ban all religions except for pastafarianism" I would clearly lack an understanding of the First Amendment.
 
kbrickley said:
:confused::confused::confused::confused:

Unions do serve some human rights purposes (primarily outside the USA) but I am not sure I would classify a union as a first amendment requirement ... the ability of workers to vote on a union is a protected ability in states that allow unions but the workers at Amazon have spoken :cool:
Click to expand...

There is nothing in the Constitution which guarantees the right to unionize.

However, the NLRA does.

He could relate Unions to the constitution through the right to peacefully assemble and right to free speech which would be utilized during union strikes/protests.

Relating my comment to the constitution is invalid.
 
As an adult, i have been involved in union Collective Bargaining on both sides of the table as a union member and as a management.

The modern incarnation of the american union is very mafia-like with deep ties in to political structure.

The company is looking at getting the work done for their customers at the lowest possible cost.

The american workers union is about extracting as money from the company for its own ends.

The worker wants a job that he can eat and raise a family.

More often than not I think the workers need an advocacy organization to protect them from the odious union end.

Specific example; while working as management we knew we were looking at cuts the following year, we had as part of the CBA a "last in first out" based on higher date. Well Since we were a contract with most everyone hired on the same date, and the Union Reps were the most recently hired they were on the block -- and they knew it. Using that the company used their desire to stay entrenched and allowed the addendum that Reps were immune from LIFO policy in exchange for letting the company charge more for insurance.

Unions are now national organizations that think for the national organizational collective, less about the individual member.
 
Eh 27 workers forming a union might not be too effective either, unions only work with numbers, at 27 workers (I'm guessing in a warehouse??) fire all of them and start over again if they wanted union or not.

That said, whatever it's their choice as to whether or not they have a union leave it at that.
 
Draax said:
The anti-union rants are comical. To understand why unions are needed one simply needs to look at the problems within "right to work" states.
- workers in RTW states, on average, earn $5538 a year less
- Injury rates in RTW states are much higher, in fact workplace death rates are 52.9% higher in RTW states
- RTW states spend substantially less on education and training for workers ($2671 less)

I am amazed that at a time when the economic inequality gap has never been greater, so many are pushing for less representation for workers. So many temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
Click to expand...

The is because:
1. they earn less because that labor is worth less. Unions have artificially inflated certain labor rates beyond what they are worth, and therefore are driving out jobs.
2. people who are actually working hard do wind up in accidents more often. It's hard to get injured when you're standing around drinking coffee half the day.
3. These states are more conservative, and therefore don't spend as much on things that the workers should be spending on themselves. (BTW, I spend about 10% of my income on continual training. books, and equipment. I don't expect my employer to or the state to pay for that for me. I do it so I can move forward. I also did this while working retail for $5.20-6.00/hr over the course of 4 years because I wanted to move beyond a minimum wage job.)

"economic inequality" occurs when people think the state or their employers should be paying for their further training, when they should be picking up the books and doing it themselves. The state has no right to take away from other people in order to pay for something others should be paying themselves.

In addition, much of the union demanded wages are far more than what the work is worth. If people were willing to pay $20 for their fast food meal, then fast food jobs would be worth paying $15/hr. I, for one, and certainly NOT willing to pay that much for a fast food meal. therefore fast food workers should not be demanding $15/hr for their work. Considering I'm getting ~$29/hr for a systems admin position, and was getting $17/hr for desktop computer support a few years ago, I certainly don't think fast food work is worth anywhere near $15/hr. If fast food workers want more than minimum wage, they should go out and train, on their own damn dime, for better jobs and actually work for it.
 
i don't know how unions work in the US, but in europe they do a decent job. individuals can decide for themselves to join them or not and employers wouldn't even know so you won't get the boot for unionizing. at least that's where i live, no idea if it's everywhere like that. i'm not in a union, but i get to negotiate my salary myself. people who don't have enough education are not in such a positon and a union can help to raise the wage for a lot of workers through collective bargaining.

pretty much every individual contract is based on a collective bargaining contract and whatever you negotiate individually can only be better than that (by law so you're not bullied into giving up some of the benefits) so even in highly qualified jobs you benefit from annual pay raises of collective bargaining and other cool benefits like days off for child care and such.

i apologize for being such a communist. you can all go back to being all capitalist now and flip burgers.
 
I'm not pro union but I'm against abolishing the ability to make one if needed. Rumor is they were threatened they would all be fired.
 
Who needs unions for protection when you can just head to the cubicle of your friendly HR Rep, who's sole purpose is your needs over the companies?

Fuck I really need to stop working office jobs
 
My wife is a nurse and has been essentially forced into a union for every job she's ever had. Zero representation, union protects the idiotic nurses around her, and they IMO thieve money from our take home pay every paycheck. The levels of union stupidity know no bounds.

Example: At one of her previous hospitals - they were essentially going bankrupt. So in comes a larger conglomerate hospital with a buyout offer at a pretty good price. All in all - everyone is happy because it is saving jobs, and keeping a local hospital open for the public. In comes the union. As part of this buyout, everyone's health coverage would increase $50 per year. Mind you, salaries were going up a couple of %, and the health coverage plan was already excellent (far better than anything I ever got). To me, a no brainer - sign up for the deal. The union of course fought that $50/yr increase tooth and nail - and the buying company said "screw it - you guys are arseholes" and pulled out of the deal. Hospital closed their doors less than two years later. Good job union members! You protected that $50 and lost your jobs in the process. :rolleyes:
 
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