CommanderFrank
Cat Can't Scratch It
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Well, I wouldn’t really classify one 3D printer as constituting a factory, but the Brit authorities take their ban of guns seriously and want to keep it that way.
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UK Police Discover 3-D Gun Printing Factory
- Thread starter CommanderFrank
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I thought this was already dismissed as police stupidity. The "magazine" and "trigger" were just spare parts for the 3D printer. Even slow CNN seems to have dismissed it yesterday. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/25/tech/innovation/3d-printed-gun-raids/
So they wasted this guys and the public's time and money being helplessly idiotic, and don't even have the common decency to just say "sorry" and instead go on about other crap.
And since when does organized crime in the UK not have firearms? Not to mention the street gangs (several mostly black male gangs in London and Manchester) where in some parts the unarmed cops are afraid (and not paid enough) to bother trying to enforce the law, so they have a power monopoly on their areas.
IMO the UK would be a lot better place if they started distributing firearms to shop owners and other good law abiding citizens following sufficient background checking and laws on safe storage practices. Perhaps then they wouldn't have so many riots in what was once the most powerful nation in the world.
And since when does organized crime in the UK not have firearms? Not to mention the street gangs (several mostly black male gangs in London and Manchester) where in some parts the unarmed cops are afraid (and not paid enough) to bother trying to enforce the law, so they have a power monopoly on their areas.
IMO the UK would be a lot better place if they started distributing firearms to shop owners and other good law abiding citizens following sufficient background checking and laws on safe storage practices. Perhaps then they wouldn't have so many riots in what was once the most powerful nation in the world.
Yossarian22
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They sure pissed that away, didn't they?
And as history always seems repeats itself, America follows......
WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot
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Exactly.
Watch Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United to States to see just exactly how we used WWII to our advantage to usurp the British Empire's worldwide influence and empire... and how our own modern-day Imperialism is taking us down the same road to being a former world power...
Watch Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United to States to see just exactly how we used WWII to our advantage to usurp the British Empire's worldwide influence and empire... and how our own modern-day Imperialism is taking us down the same road to being a former world power...
Fascinating how all the criteria for gun related homicides are there, minus one little piece about civilians owning them, and yet you cant connect the dots between the UK's lower gun crime compared to the USA's. And in fact, you actually recommend to arm more people. Truly fascinating.
So how has the rest of the crime rate been doing since the citizens... I mean subjects can't defend themselves? 1 person vs. a small group of 2-3 people? Pfft, might as well bend over and grab your ankles. Can't carry a gun, can't carry a knife, yet oddly enough the actual criminals don't seem to have any issue breaking as many laws as they want while they pursue their primary criminal activities. Fascinating.
DarthBeavis
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LOL
morinaga666
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Have you actually been to the uk? As far as the crime rates go its not great, but the majority of crimes don't happen with guns or knives. And I have been jumped by several morons and I'm really glad not one of them had a gun.
Anyway arming people here in the UK would be the stupidest idea ever. everyone hates each other and is as friendly as the clap. Add guns to it And we wouldn't have a country left.
Just to add the guy in the story was initially raided because he was making his own bullets which is super illegal in the UK because criminal gangs are the only people who do that here so chances are the 3d printer was being used to make firearms.
FearTheCow
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Just because you don't trust yourself not to shoot someone because you "hate" them doesn't mean anyone else would do the same.
I also want to know if you have seen what these 3d printers are actually capable of, the guns they create are damn near worthless.
The extent of US imperialism is taking a few islands from Spain, forming Liberia, and intervention in Iran in the 50's at Britain's request. Anything else I've heard is left over coldwar propaganda from people trying to deflect from Soviet expansionism.
How we're actually repeating history is we took heavy industry away from England during the end of the 1800's and beginning of the 1900's. Or, more like they let us. It didn't kill them right away but after WWI and the Great Depression burned through their residual wealth, they were finished. And now we've pretty much have repeated the same.
People like you are the epitome of stupid. You're like the politicians who brag about saving companies after giving them billions of bailout funds. It doesn't even take Captain Obvious to realize that if you remove all guns from society, you won't have gun crime. Or, at the very least, you'll have more gun crime if everyone is armed vs no one being armed. But the same can be said about everything else. If you remove all knives, you won't have any knife crime! If you remove all cars, you won't have any car accidents! If you remove all the water, there won't be any drownings!
All of the above is obvious, so stop trying to act like you're intelligent by re-stating what is already known. You haven't proven anything of substance. You also fail to recognize that guns will always exist, and it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to remove all guns from society, even if we wanted to. I don't know why any rational person would want to do that, but it'd still be impossible. As such, given the fact that the bad guys will always acquire firearms, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to be against law-abiding citizens from acquiring them.
Case-in-point: Check Kennesaw, GA, population: 30,000. They passed a law that mandated everyone buy a gun and have the ammo to shoot it. After passing the law, crime dropped 89% and has remained low, with a crime rate 1/5 of the US average. They also went 25 years without a single murder. OOOH, THOSE SCARY GUNS!
Washington DC legal firearm ownership hovers around 4% of the population, but they have a gun homicide rate of over 16 per 100,000. Wyoming has firearm ownership of nearly 60% with a gun homicide rate of less than 1 per 100,000.
I think a better conclusion to your post would be the real problem is that bad people having guns creates death and destruction, whereas good people having guns doesn't create death and destruction, and it also gives them an opportunity to defend themselves against the bad people.
Nenu
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The attack you just made is unfounded so has to be thrown back at you.
He didnt once say that all guns should be removed, he said it would be a bad thing to allow arms here.
The stupid part is what you made up so you could call him stupid.
I'll quote his post again so you can see where you went wrong.
Truly Fascinating lol.
Why is it that crime rates skyrocketed after guns were banned in the UK?
Here is a question for your brilliance: Why does allowing people to have guns reduce crime rate?
There is only one answer: A well armed society is a polite society. A reflection of another universal truth: Those with power make the rules.
If you are not allowed arms, you are at the mercy of your government (and criminals who don't care about the laws).
It's ok with me, because you seem to gladly accept those terms. In the USA, our government is at the mercy of the citizens. It was designed that way because of the failures and abuses of monarchs in your country.
Do you care more about how a homicide is committed than if a homicide is committed? You must think it's 'OK' as long as a gun is not used to kill someone.
Here is a little about gun deaths in the US that not many pick up on: More gun deaths are from self defense against criminals than not. The numbers of gun deaths are not usually broken down categorically to reveal that truth. BTW: You can find some interesting numbers and statistics here: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
As well, here is a little from your own side of the pond: Violent crime is worse in the UK than it is in the US.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html
UK has the second highest crime rate of all developed nations, except for Australia. You guys have almost twice the crime we do in the US. Go chew on that and then come back to bragging about your superior intellect (after you actually know something).
Nenu
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It takes time to bring in measures to control crime in different ways.
Not so, see above.
You have arms and are at the mercy of your government.
You have gun euphoria.
Your goverment is walking all over you, having guns hasnt stopped them at all.
Nobody has suggested you get rid of your guns as I can understand that would create huge turmoil.
But by the same tune, it would be just as bad to introduce them here.
Its fine saying that guns should be kept under control and that it is the parents fault if children get hold of them, but there are so many parents now that are not in control of themselves, let alone their children.
These are the very people who are likely to have a firearm if the law allows.
It would be carnage.
LOL, who the hell uses the fact that they've been jumped several times(presumably assault and battery by groups of people) and uses that as their excuse for being happy they didn't have anything to defend themselves with?
Maybe if the criminals in the UK actually had a reason to fear the general populace, you wouldn't have such a ridiculous crime rate. Funny thing is about the US, the murder rates here get drastically inflated by some very small areas(DC, Oakland, SF, New Orleans, Chiago, Detroit, NYC), where most of those places have such strict laws that a law abiding citizen cannot be armed to protect themselves, so naturally the criminals prey on normal people(with an amount of criminal on criminal crime, something most people don't have an issue with as long as the gang bangers stabbing and shooting eachother doesn't affect others).
I assume you're a law abiding subject in the UK, I bet the people jumping you regularly assume so as well. Maybe if you had the means to defend yourself(even if you chose not to carry anything) the criminals might think the risk could be just a little too high and do something else?
Also, don't forget those gun death statistics in the US tend to include suicides(those people would have found some other way to off themselves if they didn't have a gun), and even police shootings that were considered "good shoots" when they have to take out some dirtbag.
You've also failed to consider that firearms are a force equalizer. A couple punks want to jump an old man? The old man doesn't necessarily have to shoot them, but can. If he doesn't have something to defend himself with, what is he supposed to do? Not everyone is some krav maga expert or even physically capable of defending themselves with some form of martial art. If someone attacks me or my loved ones, or breaks into my home while I'm there, I don't care about that dirtbags background as they just made a decision to be a criminal and they are getting put down as fast as possible.The criminal is the one who made the decision that stealing my TV, attacking me or my family, stealing my car, was worth risking their life over. You seem to be perfectly happy letting criminals run your life for you delivering your weekly jumping or whatever, I am not ok with that.
sfsuphysics
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Difference is England's empire was built on colonies, and no not just the US colonies, once they had to essentially "give back" everything that made them powerful yeah they fell. The US's power is not based upon us having satellite countries around the world, while yeah we have military bases in countries up the wazoo that's not what makes us a powerful nation.
If anything is going to pull us apart it's our infighting and bickering and complete ineptness of leadership at all levels who play the game of politics in order to keep power for themselves, not to do things which are best for it's people.
LOL! just what the rest of the world needs to do , follow americas stupid gun laws. Guns for everyone! everyone will be safe!
Phoenix333
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I bet you and those like you who think guns in the hands of citizens is a bad idea don't know this little legal fact. The usual thinking is "well that's what the police are for", right? Wrong, and here's why.
In 1975, three women who had been raped and beaten for around 14 hours had called the DC police repeatedly. The police drove past the house, did not respond, and subsequent calls to 911 yielded no help. After the ordeal, they sued the police department. In Warren v. District of Columbia, the following is taken from the court ruling, word for word, emphasis mine:
The Supreme Court has sided with this decision, and also lower courts have as well, in similar circumstances where the police did not provide protection from crime to citizens. The government does not have to protect you. Read that again, and think on it very hard: The government does not have to protect you.
So if the government decides not to protect you, or fails to do so, or just plain can't, then who will? Like it or not, that's the reality of US law. Citizens have no choice but to defend themselves and their families. It's not that most police are bad or don't want to help, but by the time they arrive at a scene the crime is already done.
Legally you're on your own, so the only reasonable course is that if citizens are the only ones that are responsible for their own defense then they should be empowered to do so as effectively as possible. Guns are the most effective tool for self-defense and defense of others, especially where multiple assailants are involved.
Perhaps those crazy US gun laws don't make sense to you and many others, but given the choice I'd rather read a headline about a woman shooting and killing a man that's a convicted rapist that was recently paroled instead of reading about a woman that's been raped and beheaded and found in the forest and being yet another unsolved crime. There is no perfect solution to human crime short of human extinction, so until that happens people will have to make do with protecting themselves. Since the law doesn't seem to care, don't you think it's only fair?
Only a matter of time until UK citizens find a way to regain the right to self-defense. They brag about the rate of gun deaths but not their violent crime rate. There's a reason for that. Yes, cultures are different and that will pose challenges. In the end, people are most satisfied with the choice to be able to defend their own property, health and lives, as well as those of their family.
Look, people are going to cherry pick random stats and out of context quotes from various sources to back up their point of view. "My household has 10 guns and we've never been robbed, guns = safety" and so forth. Each side is equally rehearsed in their counter arguments as to why guns should or shouldnt be allowed. However there is one unequivocal fact that simply cant be debated; every nation on earth that maintains strict gun laws, of which have been so successfully employed have prevented the average citizen from owning a firearm, have less gun related crimes and homicides than those nations who do not. I mean you can sit there and talk about how general muggings have gone up, but the simple fact remains, murder rates are lower. It is NOT a coincidence people. I'll gladly live in a country where my chances of being robbed are up 50% but my chances of being killed by a maniac with an assault rifle are down 3000%, lol wtf.
Your chances of being stabbed? Beaten to death?
No real man(or woman for that matter) would give up their ability to defend themselves, unless they're happy with criminals running their lives for them. If you're willing to just line up for the neighborhood gang to deliver your weekly ass kicking, fine. But that's not what I'd call "civilized". I'd rather the neighborhood miscreants be afraid that if they want to make me a victim, they run the risk of a mag of JHPs being unloaded into their torso .
topcat989
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well this thread escalated quickly.
Nenu
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You spelt off wrong
Geef
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The funny thing about this entire story is how 3d-printed guns only fire a couple shots before failing, or having part of it crack and then explode.
I know it only takes a couple shots to kill someone but the chances of you killing yourself while shooting it are also very high.
This is a link I grabbed off a search talking about them failing.
http://gizmodo.com/the-first-3d-printed-rifle-now-fires-multiple-rounds-wi-1027887087
I know it only takes a couple shots to kill someone but the chances of you killing yourself while shooting it are also very high.
This is a link I grabbed off a search talking about them failing.
http://gizmodo.com/the-first-3d-printed-rifle-now-fires-multiple-rounds-wi-1027887087
CaptNumbNutz
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Woopidee fucking doo.
My grandfather made a zip gun in the 1950's. It had more reliability than these 3D printed pieces of shit. It also fired 12 gauge buckshot down a barrel made of pipe destined to be someone's drain where their shit resides. It was also highly illegal, but no one gave a flying fuck about it since he never committed a crime with it. FWIW, the US Army also taught him how to make several improvised explosive devices when he fought Koreans and Chinese in the Korean war some 60 years ago.
3D printing may become stronger and print out something worth writing an article about, but this one is not it. Seriously? Let's ban all guns, that will make the world better...
Its not like human ingenuity won't produce more or criminals won't get a hold of the ones already in existence. Oh wait, that happens on a daily basis regardless of the gun control laws currently on the books for the offending country.
England and Europe may have lower violent crime deaths, but that has more to do with their culture than it does the laws.
My grandfather made a zip gun in the 1950's. It had more reliability than these 3D printed pieces of shit. It also fired 12 gauge buckshot down a barrel made of pipe destined to be someone's drain where their shit resides. It was also highly illegal, but no one gave a flying fuck about it since he never committed a crime with it. FWIW, the US Army also taught him how to make several improvised explosive devices when he fought Koreans and Chinese in the Korean war some 60 years ago.
3D printing may become stronger and print out something worth writing an article about, but this one is not it. Seriously? Let's ban all guns, that will make the world better...
Its not like human ingenuity won't produce more or criminals won't get a hold of the ones already in existence. Oh wait, that happens on a daily basis regardless of the gun control laws currently on the books for the offending country.England and Europe may have lower violent crime deaths, but that has more to do with their culture than it does the laws.
Godmachine
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Anything about gun control tends to fire some ass's on this forum dude.
FearTheCow
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You may want to look up the actual statistics on gun crimes in the U.S. before spouting off about things you obviously know nothing about. The fact that you think people use rifles to commit crimes shows just how ignorant you are, while also showing how much you are willing to believe whatever your liberal overlords tell you.
I personally would rather live in a country that gives its citizens the right to protect themselves, their loved ones, and those around them, even if that right isn't ever needed. But hey, if you are fine with not being able to protect you or your loved ones to the best of your ability and suffer the consequences, which can be anything from just losing personal possessions all the way up to severe physical and/or mental harm, or death, go right ahead.
JoeDaStudd
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I completely agree with your first comment 3d printed guns aren't worth jack now until they have been refined. A person with a lathe and a few basic tools can make a much better gun then current consumer level 3d printers can.Woopidee fucking doo.
My grandfather made a zip gun in the 1950's. It had more reliability than these 3D printed pieces of shit. It also fired 12 gauge buckshot down a barrel made of pipe destined to be someone's drain where their shit resides. It was also highly illegal, but no one gave a flying fuck about it since he never committed a crime with it. FWIW, the US Army also taught him how to make several improvised explosive devices when he fought Koreans and Chinese in the Korean war some 60 years ago.
3D printing may become stronger and print out something worth writing an article about, but this one is not it. Seriously? Let's ban all guns, that will make the world better...
England and Europe may have lower violent crime deaths, but that has more to do with their culture than it does the laws.
As for the last line I have to disagree. By removing access to guns you do reduce the number of deaths by guns as the only people with them are those intent on doing illegal things.
I removes the chance of someone with a gun having (or gaining) mental issues deciding to shot people.
While the British stereotype a lot of people think is polite, mild manner and well spoken its only a stereotype. Once winter comes (like 9 months of the year) the whole population starts getting depressed and the mood of the whole country changes. Seriously outside about 3 weeks in December, from September to May the UK population isn't happy.
Give a depressed, fiery population easy access to guns and there would be a lot of people getting killed or injured.
The UK owned nearly half the world not because they are polite, mild mannered and well spoken, but because they are nasty b******'s most of the time (I'm English, I know).
Well I am not going to call McFry stupid, but I would point out that perhaps he underestimates just how effected he is by crime because he has gotten used to being a victim. He has been "jumped by several morons and he is glad none of them had a gun." I have never been robbed or jumped, how many of you other US citizens been jumped by a group of criminals, and I am not talking about a couple of guys in Jr. High playing wanabe bad boy?
Is it possible that in the UK, most confrontations with criminals have become civilized events where actual violence is avoid because the criminals have trained their prey to be civil and play by the rules? When you were jumped McFry, did you resist them, did you fight for yourself? Or did you just do as you were told and avoid all that nastiness? I am just asking, not judging or accusing, but I think it's a reasonable question to ask.
But at what cost? You would make sheep of all our people to reduce a death statistic that is ridiculously low compared to so many others.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/us-mortality-rate_n_1953215.html
Let's shine some light on this.
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nvdrs/
Violent deaths, which includes suicides that make up over 2/3 of the violent death numbers, are a minor percentage point of the death rate in this country. Some people need to get a sense of perspective. I for one would not make sheep of our people in order to reduce a problem that really is not the huge and terrible problem people see it as.
The CDC says suicide is a violent crime and that it's preventable. Guns certainly play a role in suicides in the US, I will not dispute this. But why is heart disease any less preventable and we know big parts of this have to do with diet, exercise and smoking. We don't shut down McDonalds and Taco Bell but we all know their food is actually terrible for you. Fast food in the US is a far bigger killer then guns in the US and somehow I suspect that banning Big Macs would not turn our people into sheep, easy and docile prey for thugs.
The violent crime rate in the United States has been dropping drastically every year since 1974. Meanwhile the violent crime rate in the UK has been steadily increasing, and is now over eight times the US crime rate per capita.
I also completely discount gang against gang murders and law-abiding citizen against criminal murders as a good thing, as dead criminals saves the tax payers a lot of money and heartache as they keep cyling in and out of the system poisioning society like a moldy blueberry in your bowl of fresh fruit.
chockomonkey
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I'm sorry, but you know how obvious this statement is, correct? You can't very well commit a gun crime without a gun.
LeninGHOLA
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PROVE IT!
We could save much more lives if we put everyone in padded cages, played opera music, and fed them organic food.
At what point do you say Blow Me?
There are a lot of problems in the US, but private gun ownership by honest citizens doesn't make the top 10. Drug OD's kill far more, as do stupid drivers.
Americans need guns to keep their government from overstepping it's bounds. Sounds harse, but that is what second amendment is.
If you trust the government, you aren't really American. It's part of our lifestyle to distrust authority.
At what point do you say Blow Me?
There are a lot of problems in the US, but private gun ownership by honest citizens doesn't make the top 10. Drug OD's kill far more, as do stupid drivers.
Americans need guns to keep their government from overstepping it's bounds. Sounds harse, but that is what second amendment is.
If you trust the government, you aren't really American. It's part of our lifestyle to distrust authority.
Okay, then. I suggest American politicians put forth legislation to confiscate all firearms by force and to outlaw the possession of firearms by American citizens. If they do anything less, they are putting lives at stake.
Let's cut the bullshit and make a simple trade-off: if government does not entirely outlaw gun possession and engage in confiscations, then I don't ever want to again hear about more gun laws saving lives. You want to save lives? Make the move to do so. No more half-measures.
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