Windows 8.1: A Solid Update, But No Game Changer

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,399
I believe the expression would be close, but no cigar. Try as they might, Microsoft has tidied up a bit on Windows 8.1, but still misses the mark addressing users’ main objections to the OS. Well, there’s always Windows 8.2. ;)

Except for small differences, like the return of the neutered Start button — without a Start menu — and a small down arrow on the Start screen pointing to where you can find your applications, there aren’t a lot of visual changes from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1.
Click to expand...
 
WooHoo, a new Windows 8/8.1 thread, can't wait. :D I do agree that the 8.1 update is solid and fixes a lot of things that Windows 8 had wrong. One of the big things to me was the tedious way in which you had to do things to customize the Start screen. Now, things are much better and I am pleased that the full screen apps will not stay in place.
 
I guess the only excuse now is what, the Start Menu missing? Shit every time I use that piece of crap known as ClassicShell at work (because the help desk "IT" forced me to install it on my Windows 8.1 box, since even they're too dumb to use touch screens I guess?) I've been getting less and less forgiving of the crybabies QQ

All I really need now in Windows 8.2 is the ability to resize a Metro windows similar to what I can do using Parallels8 on the Mac. Being able to dock a Metro window and a Desktop windows to each other would be icing on my cake.
 
Terminus said:
Being able to dock a Metro window and a Desktop windows to each other would be icing on my cake.
Click to expand...

I'm probably not clear on what you mean here because I believe this can be done now. I dock Modern apps to the sides of the desktop all of the time, in 8.1 is a bit more flexible with free form horizontal resizing.
 
I was at the local Walmart yesterday and noticed that in the electronics section they were removing half of the laptop display section and replacing it with a tablet display section, they even had a spot setup for a Windows 8 tablet, although it was the Acer W3 that's not been well received, but it's supposed to get an update to Bay Trail and a new screen next month.

The game changer for 8.1 isn't 8.1 itself, it's affordable Bay Trail tablets. The 8" Lenovo Miix 8 is rumored to start at $250, and there a number of models in the $300 to $400 category like the hybrid Asus T100. The story of Windows 8.1 is going to be deeply tied to how well these devices sell. And it will be interesting how Microsoft is going to price Surface RT 2, there's no way it can start at $500. $300 I think is the max and that's still pushing it. But at least with a number of devices it does look like the pricing issues are getting resolved.
 
My main SSD for OS is 128gig. With all the programs that I save to the main drive I was always around 36 gig free.. After this install I have 68 gig free? What happened here? I few programs were not updated and removed, but even after getting updates I still have all this extra space.
 
So in the video on that site for 8.1. He said the menu bar of programs have aero but the rest is flat. That's the one thing I didn't hear about. That would be better. But 8.1 could of used better desktop theme options especially for dark themes.
 
They need to focus more on the desktop experience for people on PCs. Leave Metro for tablets and phones, let the desktop experience be the experience for standalone computers.
 
Metro certainly needed a lot of tweaking, but it doesn't change the fact that most users don't care one bit about Metro apps, and Metro is the primary reason Windows 8 is going nowhere in corporate settings.

There may be some vindication for Metro if Windows 8.1 tablets take off, and I do hope those devices are successful (I want one). I'm still hoping MS comes to its senses and makes a version of Windows acceptable to business users (i.e. un-Metroized), because then I'd be all over it like Steve on an anti-Apple story. :p
 
heatlesssun said:
I'm probably not clear on what you mean here because I believe this can be done now. I dock Modern apps to the sides of the desktop all of the time, in 8.1 is a bit more flexible with free form horizontal resizing.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the edges of a "Desktop App" window, not the edges of Desktop itself. I want to have little small Metro screens to work sort of as widgets that can snap to one another (I used the word "dock", which I admit was confusing) or snap to non-Maximized Desktop App windows as well.

The thing is in Windows we never really got the "fullscreen" maximize that MacOS apps got. We got a completely different app platform instead so I think this is a good compromise to be able to resize and snap the Metro windows just like any other window. It would be way better than the windowing currently offered on MacOS. Parallels 8 kind of does this by putting the Windows 8 VM inside a resizable window but you are still using MacOS as the base OS.
 
Brent_Justice said:
They need to focus more on the desktop experience for people on PCs. Leave Metro for tablets and phones, let the desktop experience be the experience for standalone computers.
Click to expand...

Yup, this is what I have been saying all along.
 
I like now that I am not bounced out of metro screen on multiple monitors. I can have metro on one monitor an open say a web browser on another without metro jumping to desktop. I also do like my desktop background staying in place across multiple monitors even it one is in metro... Nice, cosmetic but nice.
 
Terminus said:
I'm talking about the edges of a "Desktop App" window, not the edges of Desktop itself. I want to have little small Metro screens to work sort of as widgets that can snap to one another (I used the word "dock", which I admit was confusing) or snap to non-Maximized Desktop App windows as well.

The thing is in Windows we never really got the "fullscreen" maximize that MacOS apps got. We got a completely different app platform instead so I think this is a good compromise to be able to resize and snap the Metro windows just like any other window. It would be way better than the windowing currently offered on MacOS. Parallels 8 kind of does this by putting the Windows 8 VM inside a resizable window but you are still using MacOS as the base OS.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. As the Modern UI progresses I could see something like apps supporting a widget view when that view could be used as a tile or snapped in a grid.
 
Terminus said:
This is the one I saw in the news recently: http://www.extremetech.com/computin...nally-hit-prices-consumers-are-willing-to-pay

We'll see how "fast" or slow Bay Trail is because at the end of the day that's what counts when you pick up and use the thing. $350 for a full Windows experience is real nice for sure.
Click to expand...

Performance will be the key to the success of Bay Trail no doubt. If Bay Trail does indeed come in at twice the performance of Clover Trail, it should be fine. Clover Trail devices aren't dog slow overall with many desktop application, Office runs fine for instance. But the IO subsystem was very slow and Clover Trail devices can get laggy from time to time. But 8.1 is a bit faster than 8 and with Bay Trail's performance I think that we are about to see decent performing Windows 8 tablets that have equivalent battery life and size and weight characteristics of mobile OS devices with similar pricing.

I think that's a pretty big deal. Yes Windows has struggled on tablets before, but there's always been the issues or price, performance, battery life, size and weight. For the first time in the history of Windows tablets it looks like all of those issues are about to be resolved. All of them. And Intel is already on pace to deliver it's 14mn SoC by the first of next year which will only increase performance above Bay Trail.

The biggest issue now for Windows 8 tablets is the need for more modern apps and that situation is slowly but steadily improving, Facebook coming is a big deal along with a number of top tier tablet games and even a modern version of Office.

So is all of this enough? I think it is enough were Windows 8 can see low double digit market share in tablets in the next year.
 
This thread should be fun.....fanboy flame wars in 3......2......... :rolleyes:
 
JimmayLong said:
haters gonna hate. For us IT folks hell yeah powershell v4.
Click to expand...

Frankly, they should just adopt zsh and be done with it.

Powershell is far too verbose because they are attempting to cram libraries and a programming language designed for making full fledged applications into a shell and it ends up making things more complicated than they need to be.
 
Stardock has a program to do what you want for 5 dollars. Parallels 9 has included this program.

Terminus said:
I'm talking about the edges of a "Desktop App" window, not the edges of Desktop itself. I want to have little small Metro screens to work sort of as widgets that can snap to one another (I used the word "dock", which I admit was confusing) or snap to non-Maximized Desktop App windows as well.

The thing is in Windows we never really got the "fullscreen" maximize that MacOS apps got. We got a completely different app platform instead so I think this is a good compromise to be able to resize and snap the Metro windows just like any other window. It would be way better than the windowing currently offered on MacOS. Parallels 8 kind of does this by putting the Windows 8 VM inside a resizable window but you are still using MacOS as the base OS.
Click to expand...
 
As a helpdesk team lead this is what I miss most:
a. business apps like citrix's plugin do not always play nice with IE10 on install, it blocks common websites/legit apps even if you add a trusted website for the install. Most users end up on firefox or chrome if it fails to work. The next user might get in no problem on a fresh install.

b. tablet vs desktop, thanks MS now I have to teach people how to support two new o/s instead of one. Can't install citrix? That is because its a tablet, so you have to use the store not their website. Wait not a tablet? ok ... well lets go to the website for the install.

c. users do not know if they have RT or the regular win8.

d. alot of the win7 fixit apps are not ready for win8. Win8 is not perfect. I just spent 5 hours yesterday after 8.1 prevented all future drivers and apps from installing and would not restore with the basic or advance restore utilities. I had to download rtm and then use the repair options since 8.1 preview was not recognized by the o/s for any system repairs. Afterwards I had to reinstall all my apps and lost my favorites for some reason.

e. you have to enable control panel where TONS of stuff still happens through, and its a pain.

f. its a pain to find basic apps quickly as an IS analyst. you have to type everything in, great! except remote support is a pain to constantly type.

g. users end up creating their desktops (the win7 style one) as a start menu of crazy random amounts of icons.


HOW TO WIN THE NERDS OVER THAT DRIVE SALES BY SELLING THE O/S: for now your sales people hate your o/s, your support analysts hate it. You need to win the geeks over like you did with win7. 8.1 should of really been win7 + metro experience.

a. wtf why have two control panels with half the features in both?
b. why have two settings with half the features in both?
c. there is limited fix support by MS since its the "perfect o/s" unless you have problems, then you better start over. :(
 
hackztor said:
Stardock has a program to do what you want for 5 dollars. Parallels 9 has included this program.
Click to expand...

A long time ago during the Vista days I made a promise to never, ever support Stardock with my money.

I have to check out Parallels 9 but damn it seems like I'm buying a new copy every year now. But like I said I would like this to be supported natively in Windows. MacOS is great and all but I need to get real work done on a non-VM Windows install for most of my clients.
 
damicatz said:
Frankly, they should just adopt zsh and be done with it.

Powershell is far too verbose because they are attempting to cram libraries and a programming language designed for making full fledged applications into a shell and it ends up making things more complicated than they need to be.
Click to expand...

Not to mention MS will just end up abandoning powershell anyway.
 
If it 'misses the mark' and 'hasn’t addressed any of the fundamental issues slowing Windows 8′s adoption' as the article states then how is it also a 'solid update?'

Windows 8 is a disaster. I don't think there's anything Microsoft can do to save the brand name at this point, and ignoring their core user's complaints while desperately flailing around trying to grab tablet sales isn't going to keep the company going in this new era we're supposedly in. Microsoft has been experimenting with touch since the early 90s and yet they completely missed the boat on tablets and smartphones. They need a new vision, now.

Leave the desktop OS alone, it's done. Just take 7 and release a new, low cost update every few years with security updates and requested features. It's free money until desktops effectively die out. It's Windows Phone OS they need to work on and provide hybrid touch/desktop functionality. Tablets aren't going to replace PC's, they're toys for watching hulu in bed. What's really killing PC's is the smartphone. If Microsoft had a great phone that could easily dock with your keyboard/mouse/monitor and work like your good old Windows PC I think they could attract a lot of consumers.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Tablets aren't going to replace PC's, they're toys for watching hulu in bed. What's really killing PC's is the smartphone. If Microsoft had a great phone that could easily dock with your keyboard/mouse/monitor and work like your good old Windows PC I think they could attract a lot of consumers.
Click to expand...

Windows 8 tablets are PCs and if one only needs low to mid-level performance a Windows 8 tablet could effectively replace a conventional PC while serving as a tablet. Now that 8 tablets are coming in at prices in line with iPads and Android tablets they should sell much better now.

As for the PC phone, I would suspect that such a device is coming as Windows Phone and RT converge into one and with Intel's new x86 SoCs, a Surface Phone perhaps.
 
heatlesssun said:
Windows 8 tablets are PCs and if one only needs low to mid-level performance a Windows 8 tablet could effectively replace a conventional PC while serving as a tablet. Now that 8 tablets are coming in at prices in line with iPads and Android tablets they should sell much better now.
Click to expand...

I have an MSI Windpad that I bought specifically for playing around with Windows 8. These low-end x86 devices are inferior to Android devices. With the low-end Atom/AMD APU's even basic tasks like launching a web browser or watching video can slow the device to a crawl and cause the fan to rev up. I understand that performance/power consumption are continuing to improve, but it's really hard to beat 'fanless' and 'just works.' You do get the advantage of a huge library of Windows apps, but I don't really use my tablet for running programs like I do on my desktop.

That's why I think Microsoft's vison of hybrid desktop/tablet devices doesn't make much sense. They don't want a desktop OS on their tablet. They want it to do email, web surfing, and video without hiccups. It's a content consumption device. High-end x86 tablets are a niche and low-end x86 tablets aren't as good as their ARM counterparts.

A phone that can dock with a monitor/keyboard/mouse and provide a good desktop experience would be a big deal. People always have their phone around and there's always going to be a need for that 'desktop' workspace. Microsoft needs to own that space where a hybrid UI actually makes sense before Google owns it. They could also stand to make a lot of money from Office 365/Skydrive subscriptions from people using those devices.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
I have an MSI Windpad that I bought specifically for playing around with Windows 8. These low-end x86 devices are inferior to Android devices. With the low-end Atom/AMD APU's even basic tasks like launching a web browser or watching video can slow the device to a crawl and cause the fan to rev up. I understand that performance/power consumption are continuing to improve, but it's really hard to beat 'fanless' and 'just works.' You do get the advantage of a huge library of Windows apps, but I don't really use my tablet for running programs like I do on my desktop.
Click to expand...

A pre-Clover Trail Atom isn't no where in the same league as Bay Trail running Windows 8. Even Clover Trail devices were fanless and actually performed decently enough for a lot of things though. Bay Trail is supposed to provide 2x the CPU performance and near triple the GPU of Clover Trail. If that's true then the low-end x86 machines will perform quite well, especially given the incredible battery life.

DeathFromBelow said:
That's why I think Microsoft's vison of hybrid desktop/tablet devices doesn't make much sense. They don't want a desktop OS on their tablet. They want it to do email, web surfing, and video without hiccups. It's a content consumption device. High-end x86 tablets are a niche and low-end x86 tablets aren't as good as their ARM counterparts.
Click to expand...

I think a sizable percentage of tablet buyers would be happy to have the option of buying a hybrid or convertible if the price is right and the performance is there. A device like the Asus T100, 2.4 lbs with the keyboard and 11 hours of battery life at $400? And the tablet section is lighter than the current big iPad and it's cheaper? It starts to become hard to see why devices like this wouldn't be wanted by a larger percentage of tablet buyers. Maybe not most, but certainly a good number. If Bay Trail delivers the performance that it should, these devices should do well in the market place, if for no other reason that some of them are now at the impulse buy price point, and that's a first for Windows tablets.

DeathFromBelow said:
A phone that can dock with a monitor/keyboard/mouse and provide a good desktop experience would be a big deal. People always have their phone around and there's always going to be a need for that 'desktop' workspace. Microsoft needs to own that space where a hybrid UI actually makes sense before Google owns it. They could also stand to make a lot of money from Office 365/Skydrive subscriptions from people using those devices.
Click to expand...

Microsoft is certainly in a better position to create a desktop phone than either Google or Apple at this point. These devices have been done before, I think there's a company that actually have plans to launch a Windows 8 phone next year.
 
Cool thing is it works and works well. Also, when was the last time anyone who was not a computer pro know what version of Windows they were using? Oh, and Citrix needs to update their program for it to work correctly. (Just like I am sure they did for the latest version of Chrome and Firefox.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top