FBI Must Return Kim Dotcom’s Seized Property

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I'm not sure how this can be considered a win, the FBI has been combing through that data for months. I mean, who cares if they have to give it back now? They already went through all of it. By the way, who decides what is or is not "directly related to the ongoing prosecution?"

The New Zealand High Court has ordered the police to inspect all digital information illegally seized last year from Kim Dotcom’s mansion, and return everything not directly related to the ongoing prosecution. The judge further ruled that the FBI must ship back cloned drives that were sent to them, and destroy all copies the U.S. Government has archived.
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This whole ordeal and the way it went down by the FBI still saddens me. So much FAIL on all accounts!
 
Steve said:
I'm not sure how this can be considered a win, the FBI has been combing through that data for months. I mean, who cares if they have to give it back now? They already went through all of it. By the way, who decides what is or is not "directly related to the ongoing prosecution?"
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Let's say the FBI has a piece of evidence they gathered somewhere...(location of a numbered bank account for example) and they did not get the evidence from those cloned drives...

If the same evidence exists on the cloned drives, it's poisoned fruit. There's no way the FBI can conclusively prove the evidence didn't come from those drives.

I'd say that's a win
 
Thats what happens when you bully foreign authorities to hastily do you bidding. Those authorities get sloppy and don't realize they are breaking their own rules
 
I've wondered about similar proceedings myself. Imagine the following scenario:

The local sheriff shows up at your door with a search warrant. They're taking all electronic devices in your house because they believe you're distributing child pornography. You aren't, of course. What actually happened is that someone fat-fingered their report, and juxtapositioned two numbers in the IP address when asking Comcast for your information. (Just making something up) Now, the current backlog on computer forensics cases is somewhere between six months and three years. Let's say it takes the worst case scenario, 3 years. They scan your hardware, find nothing of value, and drop the case due to lack of evidence. They return your electronics, which are now worth 25% of what they were worth.

Is the county responsible for the depreciation of the hardware? It may not be much when you're talking about a gaming rig and a router, but what about a datacenter?
 
notarat said:
Let's say the FBI has a piece of evidence they gathered somewhere...(location of a numbered bank account for example) and they did not get the evidence from those cloned drives...

If the same evidence exists on the cloned drives, it's poisoned fruit. There's no way the FBI can conclusively prove the evidence didn't come from those drives.

I'd say that's a win
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Exactly that.

It's actually a huge win, the chain of evidence just got incredibly delicate for the FBI.
 
notarat said:
Let's say the FBI has a piece of evidence they gathered somewhere...(location of a numbered bank account for example) and they did not get the evidence from those cloned drives...

If the same evidence exists on the cloned drives, it's poisoned fruit. There's no way the FBI can conclusively prove the evidence didn't come from those drives.

I'd say that's a win
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I believe that all they need to prove is that they could have gotten the evidence without information that came from the drives. They don't have to prove that they didn't get it from the drives. As you pointed out proving a negative is impossible. If they couldn't have reasonably discovered the information without illegally obtained evidence then it will be excluded.

It's important to not that the original data isn't being destroyed and if the police can come up with a valid warrant based on info not attained from the seizure they can still seize the drives and use anything on them covered under the new, more narrow warrant.

I don't expect that the FBI will destroy anything unless a US court orders them to do so. Though I expect his lawyers are already seeking such a court order which I suspect they will likely be able to get.
 
Apparently New Zealand's not corrupted by corporate interests enough.
 
ballistic90 said:
Didn't this all go down like, a year and a half ago? Whatever happened to a "speedy trial"? :(
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When the crime is abstract or perhaps even non-existent and when the whole process is about blazing new legal ground in favour of a few media interests, speedy might just be impossible.

This whole case is seriously complicated, some would say going after Dotcom is like charging General Motors because someone robbed a bank in a GM van. Some would say he is wilfully aiding and abetting criminality, it's a pretty interesting case either way.
 
TeeJayHoward said:
I've wondered about similar proceedings myself. Imagine the following scenario:

The local sheriff shows up at your door with a search warrant. They're taking all electronic devices in your house because they believe you're distributing child pornography. You aren't, of course. What actually happened is that someone fat-fingered their report, and juxtapositioned two numbers in the IP address when asking Comcast for your information. (Just making something up) Now, the current backlog on computer forensics cases is somewhere between six months and three years. Let's say it takes the worst case scenario, 3 years. They scan your hardware, find nothing of value, and drop the case due to lack of evidence. They return your electronics, which are now worth 25% of what they were worth.

Is the county responsible for the depreciation of the hardware? It may not be much when you're talking about a gaming rig and a router, but what about a datacenter?
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couldn't you have made up a story about drug dealing or money laundering or something instead of freaking child pornography? this is such an overused case to justify random laws, make up stories to support them or be the general most powerful accusation similar to being a nazi if you don't like kebap.
 
I guess it's possible to seize computers to find out you're distributing drugs via the internet or something, but that doesn't seem as likely as child pornography.

It is over used as a basis for enforcing law, but it works in that example.
 
It's a victory because the FBI wanted to keep his property whether it had any material bearing on their case, and now they can't. That's arrogance borne of habit, and what the government asked for here seems little better than theft. Dotcom, regardless of what anyone might think of the guy, hasn't been convicted of any crime whatsoever, and is at the moment not guilty. They need to return his property because it is his, and not theirs. This Obama admin, between the FBI and the DoJ, is going down as one of the heaviest-handed, near-dictatorial administrations we've seen in a long time.
 
Rahh said:
This whole ordeal and the way it went down by the FBI still saddens me. So much FAIL on all accounts!
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Agreed. I read the Wired article about the case and it really sounds like they screwed him over for no good reason, even moreso than the normal news articles portray.
 
WaltC said:
It's a victory because the FBI wanted to keep his property whether it had any material bearing on their case, and now they can't. That's arrogance borne of habit, and what the government asked for here seems little better than theft. Dotcom, regardless of what anyone might think of the guy, hasn't been convicted of any crime whatsoever, and is at the moment not guilty. They need to return his property because it is his, and not theirs. This Obama admin, between the FBI and the DoJ, is going down as one of the heaviest-handed, near-dictatorial administrations we've seen in a long time.
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Gotta agree with you completely here.
 
The US government does not follow anyone's rules but its own. Does anyone think the FBI gives two shits about what some court in New Zealand said? They've already committed armed robbery and stolen his property and they aren't going to be made to give it back.
 
Wierdo said:
Apparently New Zealand's not corrupted by corporate interests enough.
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Then why did they let the foreign police thugs to do whatever they want in the first place?
 
Judge Orders.... FBI say's YES SIR LET ME GET RIGHT ON DESTRYING THOSE ARCHIEVED DATA.... POINK idiots.
 
MCRAYGSX said:
Judge Orders.... FBI say's YES SIR LET ME GET RIGHT ON DESTRYING THOSE ARCHIEVED DATA.... POINK idiots.
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Three years later.... "Errrrrr.... we cannot confirm nor deny that we ever received a potential order that may or may not have requested the deletion of said data that may or may not exist..."
 
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