Boy Scouts Introduce Badge for Game Design

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Keeping up with the technology trends is one way the Boy Scouts are ‘being prepared’ for the future. On Thursday, the Boy Scouts announced it will authorize the Game Design merit badge.

To earn the badge, scouts will first have to "analyze different types of games; describe play value, content, and theme; and understand the significance of intellectual property as it relates to the game industry."
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"and understand the significance of intellectual property as it relates to the game industry."

Gee...I wonder what lobby that last one came from.
 
I'm all for protecting the intellectual property of game developers. I mean, think about it... if you made a game, spent millions in source code development for the game's engine, graphics, sound, and voice actors and then you made nothing back because everyone pirated the game, you wouldn't want to make more games. Piracy can kill a gaming industry.

However... protecting the intellectual property of game developers has gone to such new heights that it has eroded the rights of the end user. That is something that I simply will not stand for!!!!

Protecting the industry and protecting the end user's rights is a constant battle but lately we've been seeing that the protection of the industry has overshadowed the rights of the end user. That needs to change! Forcing DRM upon users is something that is a violation of the end user's rights.
 
Now they just have to make a "No Homo" badge and their training will be complete... bwahahaha come to the dark side, we have cookies. No, seriously, we have thin mints, samoas, tagalongs what ever you want. The first box is always free.
 
"and understand the significance of intellectual property as it relates to the game industry."

What the heck? The rest I understand. Heck, it's a little easy. It would be better if you actually had to program something . . . anything and make it work, even if it's not good.

A merit badge earned by sitting through a IP lecture is similar to free lunch for sitting through a time share presentation. No thanks!
 
This strikes me as a desperate attempt by a dying organization to try to seem relevant. Here's a hint BSA, people are leaving because you're a bunch of bigoted scumbags who discriminate against gays and atheists.
 
huh, and all these years I knew "boy scouts" are just a b movie thing
 
How bout a merit badge for scoutmasters to learn the importance of Little Billy's "intellectual property" so he stop sneaking into Billy's tent and pulling his T-shirt off for late night fun and screams of terror
 
Founded in 1910, Boy Scouts adhere to the principles of being "morally straight" and of having a "Duty to God". How unPC. Wiki states youth membership of 2.7 million and another million adult volunteers. Seems scouting will endure.
 
I'd rather the Boy Scouts introduce a "tolerance badge" in which children are taught to be tolerant of atheists and gays.

As for the imaginary property nonsense; imaginary property has done more to hold back the video game industry than anything short of self destructive and greedy publishers who have turned making video games from a labor of love into a means to afford a new private jet.
 
damicatz said:
I'd rather the Boy Scouts introduce a "tolerance badge" in which children are taught to be tolerant of atheists and gays.

As for the imaginary property nonsense; imaginary property has done more to hold back the video game industry than anything short of self destructive and greedy publishers who have turned making video games from a labor of love into a means to afford a new private jet.
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Tolerance should go both ways. If you don't agree with the Boy Scouts stand on issues, shouldn't you tolerate their beliefs rather than trying to change them?
 
Glad to hear that the Boy Scout organization isn't COMPLETELY in the stone age. The past year I've been too embarrassed to call myself an Eagle Scout anymore.
 
spamhunter said:
Tolerance should go both ways. If you don't agree with the Boy Scouts stand on issues, shouldn't you tolerate their beliefs rather than trying to change them?
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The Boy Scouts is a Federal charter organization and as such are required to follow all Federal laws, including no discrimination against age, sex, gender, religion (or the lack of) and sexual preferences. "Both ways" does not apply lest they wish to be cut off of all Federal funding. Besides, wasn't Baden Powell gay?
 
spamhunter said:
Tolerance should go both ways. If you don't agree with the Boy Scouts stand on issues, shouldn't you tolerate their beliefs rather than trying to change them?
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My tolerance ends when my money is stolen to fund the organization.
 
Azhar said:
The Boy Scouts is a Federal charter organization and as such are required to follow all Federal laws, including no discrimination against age, sex, gender, religion (or the lack of) and sexual preferences. "Both ways" does not apply lest they wish to be cut off of all Federal funding. Besides, wasn't Baden Powell gay?
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Sort of. It's under Title 36 which deals with patriotic organizations in the United States. All it does is it gives them the authority to act as a corporation, have a monopoly, rights over their trademarks, etc. They are not required to follow all federal law as you suggested.

There is nothing even in the SCOTUS case that required them to follow federal law regarding discrimination. Instead the SCOTUS ruling (BSA v Dale) treats the Boy Scouts of America as a private organization separate from the United States government. The dissent however did discuss it a bit but not so much.

The ruling was this: The majority holds that New Jersey's law violates BSA's right to associate and its right to free speech. - Dissent's statement Basically the gist is that BSA has the right to exclude whoever the heck they want regardless of federal charter.
 
The BSA is an increasingly irrelevant organization that is primarily used as a substitute for cheap babysitting by lazy religious parents. They have a Dentistry badge for pete's sake... because ya when I was a kid I dreamed of not quite being smart enough to get into med school and stick my fingers in other people's mouths for a living.

I have a few friends that have kids in that age group and they don't know anyone in their parental circles who is in or is affiliated with the BSA. Take that for what you will.

The thing I despise about the BSA and religious groups (and they ARE a religious group) in general is that they masquerade as a force for good in the community when they are really just self-righteous pricks. Hey, if you want to be intolerant jerks then be my guest just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I think alot of people (at least in the city) are growing wise to their shenanigans but I could be wrong.
 
auspexd said:
The BSA is an increasingly irrelevant organization that is primarily used as a substitute for cheap babysitting by lazy religious parents. They have a Dentistry badge for pete's sake... because ya when I was a kid I dreamed of not quite being smart enough to get into med school and stick my fingers in other people's mouths for a living.

I have a few friends that have kids in that age group and they don't know anyone in their parental circles who is in or is affiliated with the BSA. Take that for what you will.

The thing I despise about the BSA and religious groups (and they ARE a religious group) in general is that they masquerade as a force for good in the community when they are really just self-righteous pricks. Hey, if you want to be intolerant jerks then be my guest just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. I think alot of people (at least in the city) are growing wise to their shenanigans but I could be wrong.
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1) No, it isn't. Boy Scouts is actually very expensive. They do not "babysit" their kids every day if that's what you're trying to imply compared to say Early Start or after-school programs which are generally free. Scouting events normally takes place at night time when their scout leaders are off work one time a week and it's normally 1-2 hours long for whatever merit badge, planning for scouting trip, whatever. Especially when their parents sometimes do participate in those events. Uniform, equipment, fundraising/paying for expenses are all done and paid for by their own parents.

2) What's your point with your friends having kids in that age group? Doesn't seem to be a point here. Perhaps they just didn't want to enroll their kids in scouting or didn't actively seek it. The local scouting office which there are plenty can give them information where they can find a local scout unit. It's not hard to find that out.

3) No, you are misunderstanding what the association is with those groups. Religious Organizations and Boy Scouts are different ideas. Going to church is about one thing whatever religious group they are from (Baptist, Catholics, LDS, Lutheran, etc.) however the Scouting program is an entirely different emphasis which most of their organization structure do lend itself from these same religious organizations. So in a sense, they are a religious organization. Your opinion of whatever you think they do as a "force for good" is varied by group to group. You are generalizing based on your experience with certain local groups on the whole. When I was involved as a scout back then, we did a lot of food distribution in the Portland area along side with the Police Bureau & the Oregon Air National Guard. I guess I was being a self-righteous prick too.

Your entire argument is basically "I don't like the Scouting program so I got to disparage them as a whole".
 
damicatz said:
My tolerance ends when my money is stolen to fund the organization.
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Indeed... if your money is going to it, you should have a say. Though in this case, it's more like the government's money, since you surrendered it through taxes.
 
Kaitian said:
Your entire argument is basically "I don't like the Scouting program so I got to disparage them as a whole".
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I think some will label you a shill, but your arguments are sound.

I'm having a hard time detailing what their federal "funding" equates to. I am finding that they don't have to pay money to the government for certain things, but I am not really seeing that they get money from the federal government. I am much more linient to people not giving money to the gov then those who receive money.

And if local cities/municipalities give money to the orginization that is different then federal level.

While I support the general rights homosexuals, I also appreciate that many don't. There is no scientific basis to right & wrong. It is simply defined by what the majority of the populace feel is right & wrong. And right now I would say most people in this country have some level of discrimination against homosexuals. As the minority its not our job to force our will on them, but rather influence them to accept our views. This is how it is with all social issues.
 
westrock2000 said:
I think some will label you a shill, but your arguments are sound.

I'm having a hard time detailing what their federal "funding" equates to. I am finding that they don't have to pay money to the government for certain things, but I am not really seeing that they get money from the federal government. I am much more linient to people not giving money to the gov then those who receive money.

And if local cities/municipalities give money to the orginization that is different then federal level.

While I support the general rights homosexuals, I also appreciate that many don't. There is no scientific basis to right & wrong. It is simply defined by what the majority of the populace feel is right & wrong. And right now I would say most people in this country have some level of discrimination against homosexuals. As the minority its not our job to force our will on them, but rather influence them to accept our views. This is how it is with all social issues.
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The biggest federal boost they got from the Federal Government was the usage of Fort A.P. Hill however they are not doing that anymore. The next National Jamboree is actually taking place at their own private ground since the family that owns Bechtel Corporation bought it for the BSA. Another thing is that EAGLE scouts (Life and the rest do not apply) that join the military are normally given extra perks such as automatic promotion to 1 rank higher upon joining (E-1 to E-2).

Other than that, they are authorized to act as a monopoly without going afoul of the anti-trust laws of our country.
 
Kaitian said:
1) No, it isn't. Boy Scouts is actually very expensive. They do not "babysit" their kids every day if that's what you're trying to imply compared to say Early Start or after-school programs which are generally free. Scouting events normally takes place at night time when their scout leaders are off work one time a week and it's normally 1-2 hours long for whatever merit badge, planning for scouting trip, whatever. Especially when their parents sometimes do participate in those events. Uniform, equipment, fundraising/paying for expenses are all done and paid for by their own parents.
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I didn't mean cheap in the monetary context but feel free to ignore that point.

Kaitian said:
2) What's your point with your friends having kids in that age group? Doesn't seem to be a point here. Perhaps they just didn't want to enroll their kids in scouting or didn't actively seek it. The local scouting office which there are plenty can give them information where they can find a local scout unit. It's not hard to find that out.
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My point is anecdotal evidence as to the popularity of the BSA in my particular city. Or didn't you see the, "Take that for what you will." disclaimer. Reading is fundamental; perhaps, one might consider going back to get that particular merit badge...

Kaitian said:
3) No, you are misunderstanding what the association is with those groups. Religious Organizations and Boy Scouts are different ideas. Going to church is about one thing whatever religious group they are from (Baptist, Catholics, LDS, Lutheran, etc.) however the Scouting program is an entirely different emphasis which most of their organization structure do lend itself from these same religious organizations. So in a sense, they are a religious organization. Your opinion of whatever you think they do as a "force for good" is varied by group to group. You are generalizing based on your experience with certain local groups on the whole. When I was involved as a scout back then, we did a lot of food distribution in the Portland area along side with the Police Bureau & the Oregon Air National Guard. I guess I was being a self-righteous prick too.

Your entire argument is basically "I don't like the Scouting program so I got to disparage them as a whole".
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No, I don't think I am misunderstanding the association at all. I used to live down the street (in another city) from an LDS church and the BSA had meetings there all the damn time (which made traffic a complete cluster). Yeah, were not a religious organization: Trust us. I can understand that individuals can and do have differing opinions and values about any organization they belong to but they DO make the conscience choice to affiliate with that group and they must be willing to endure the criticism of that choice.

As far as the food distribution goes, well, I have donated my time and money to charity as well... the difference is that I didn't need some over-arching authority figure to tell me that it was the "morally straight" thing to do.

It is my right to disparage them as a whole because as a whole they are cowardly pricks that outwardly and blatantly discriminate while pretending to be all righteous and upstanding about it. The discrimination is not my problem (lots of people in the world are pricks like that), it's the cowardice that makes me lose all respect for them as an organization. If, like chik-fil-a, they came out and said yes we are directly affiliated with XYZ religion and as such we feel we can and should discriminate on the basis of those religious beliefs then I wouldn't have a problem with them. I still wouldn't like them, sure, but I would respect them.

Getting back on point: I find it a little humorous that the "new" thing in new media and sociology is the "gameification" of culture i.e. real life achievement unlocked badges. In that way the BSA was ahead of its time, I think.
 
spamhunter said:
Tolerance should go both ways. If you don't agree with the Boy Scouts stand on issues, shouldn't you tolerate their beliefs rather than trying to change them?
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There's a difference between forcing change and ostracizing. I believe we should be able to do the latter, not the former.

Same principle applies to hate groups like the KKK.
 
damicatz said:
The fact that you have someone else steal the money for you does not change the fact that it is stolen money.

And yes, they do operate with stolen money :
http://secular.org/news/government-funding-boys-scouts-discriminatory-policies-unacceptable
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You say it's stolen doesn't make it so. The world of damicatz does not apply to the rest of us, thank goodness.

Also that article is a bit dated now. The Jamboree will not be taking place at Fort A.P. Hill anymore. Another issue is that they are a private organization. Being chartered by the Federal Government under Title 36 does not make them a federal organization as the SCOTUS ruling already declares them to be a private organization thus nullifying the entire argument that they are a quasi-government agency. Now, if you want to sue the government to stop funding the BSA, good luck because the Congress has the power of purse, not the President. He can veto but that's not likely.
 
auspexd said:
No, I don't think I am misunderstanding the association at all. I used to live down the street (in another city) from an LDS church and the BSA had meetings there all the damn time (which made traffic a complete cluster). Yeah, were not a religious organization: Trust us.
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As a member of the LDS church and a former scout I doubt that scout meetings at the church are causing all the traffic issues. The church does, however use their buildings a lot for many activities, including 'mutual', which is a youth activity night held once a week for young men and women ages 13-18.

But I'm not sure how traffic near your house should make you hate any group or organization. You should hate the traffic, or your city planners, or the local zoning codes. Whatever it is that makes the traffic, whether it's a church, school, DMV, or whatever, hate the traffic, not the organization.

Also the BSA is still not a religious organization. It's not a church. Many churches integrate the BSA into their youth programs, but again, doesn't make the BSA itself a religious organization. They are however, a private club, and as such can include or exclude whoever they want. This includes gays, atheists, and . . . women.

I'm not trying to say that it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that it's their right to do it. If you hate the organization then the right thing for you to do is boycott it.

auspexd said:
It is my right to disparage them as a whole because as a whole they are cowardly pricks that outwardly and blatantly discriminate while pretending to be all righteous and upstanding about it. The discrimination is not my problem, it's the cowardice that makes me lose all respect for them as an organization. If, like chik-fil-a, they came out and said yes we are directly affiliated with XYZ religion and as such we feel we can and should discriminate on the basis of those religious beliefs then I wouldn't have a problem with them. I still wouldn't like them, sure, but I would respect them.
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Again, the BSA isn't associated with any particular religion. It's the opposite. Many religions associate themselves with the BSA. I also disagree that they are being cowards. They stood up for what they felt were important ideals to the organization. Perhaps the issues of homosexuality and atheism were less prominent back when the organization was founded, and so it felt no need at the time to directly state its stance. In any case, I don't think standing up for one's beliefs is cowardice, even if I don't agree with them.

Personally, I would like to see more inclusion within troops of atheists and gays. If I think I'm atheist and still wish to join an organization that promotes a duty to God as one of their values, then that's something I would have to accept as part of being in the organization, and would have to come to terms with the fact that many of the merit badges and promotions within the organization are built around developing a relationship with God.

auspexd said:
Getting back on point: I find it a little humorous that the "new" thing in new media and sociology is the "gameification" of culture i.e. real life achievement unlocked badges. In that way the BSA was ahead of its time, I think.
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I sort of think that the best way to combat bigotry in the BSA would be to form a new organization that is similar, but without any of the exclusion. People will vote with their time and money as long as they have a choice. Certain parts of the BSA are pretty dated. I never became an Eagle Scout because many of the requirements to do so become really involving to the parents. I think most of the boys I knew who became Eagle scouts earned it from the work their parents put into it, and that it's pretty hard to do it without that help. I didn't want to put that burden on my parents so I just decided I was done with that part of it.

I still love camping and the outdoors, however, and loved going on high adventures each summer.
 
d_stilgar said:
As a member of the LDS church and a former scout I doubt that scout meetings at the church are causing all the traffic issues. The church does, however use their buildings a lot for many activities, including 'mutual', which is a youth activity night held once a week for young men and women ages 13-18.

But I'm not sure how traffic near your house should make you hate any group or organization. You should hate the traffic, or your city planners, or the local zoning codes. Whatever it is that makes the traffic, whether it's a church, school, DMV, or whatever, hate the traffic, not the organization.
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Woosh is the sound a point makes. That is to say that wasn't my point and I think that was obvious but thanks for insight anyway.

d_stilgar said:
Also the BSA is still not a religious organization. It's not a church. Many churches integrate the BSA into their youth programs, but again, doesn't make the BSA itself a religious organization. They are however, a private club, and as such can include or exclude whoever they want. This includes gays, atheists, and . . . women.

I'm not trying to say that it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that it's their right to do it. If you hate the organization then the right thing for you to do is boycott it.
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I didn't say it was a church. I said it was a religious organization. Unless I'm somehow misreading the part of the oath that states, "duty to God" and that is kind of metaphor. If it is please enlighten me.

d_stilgar said:
Again, the BSA isn't associated with any particular religion. It's the opposite. Many religions associate themselves with the BSA. I also disagree that they are being cowards. They stood up for what they felt were important ideals to the organization. Perhaps the issues of homosexuality and atheism were less prominent back when the organization was founded, and so it felt no need at the time to directly state its stance. In any case, I don't think standing up for one's beliefs is cowardice, even if I don't agree with them.
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But they are not standing up for their beliefs... they are the equivalent of don't ask, don't tell if you are gay or an atheist. They hide behind their bullshit wink wink policies so they can keep suckling on the federal teat. That, to me is cowardice.

Again, I don't care that they are a religious organization. I don't care if they discriminate. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Pardon the caps. The point is that they don't come right out and directly state their stance for fear of losing government funding. Until they release a public statement directly and plainly stating that, "As a religious organization we feel we have the right to exclude X population based on our core values," I will continue to call them cowards.

d_stilgar said:
Personally, I would like to see more inclusion within troops of atheists and gays. If I think I'm atheist and still wish to join an organization that promotes a duty to God as one of their values, then that's something I would have to accept as part of being in the organization, and would have to come to terms with the fact that many of the merit badges and promotions within the organization are built around developing a relationship with God.
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Many of the merit badges and promotions within the organization are built around developing a relationship with God... Really, you don't say. Why don't you tell me more about how inclusive, welcoming not to mention how totally non-religious the BSA is... Please, do tell.

Politics aside, I do think that the whole discussion about "merit" badges in a new media social context is an interesting conversation to have. Look up some of the TED talks about it. The nissan leaf "grows" as you save gas... in the near future, corporations/big government could use tech like google glass and biometrics to give you "merit" badges in just about everything. Health and car insurance companies could give you a discount on if you are driving safely or working out. Businesses do this already with rewards cards. Imagine unlocking achievements for your son or daughter when they brush their teeth every night for a week. May you live in interesting times, indeed.
 
auspexd said:
I didn't say it was a church. I said it was a religious organization. Unless I'm somehow misreading the part of the oath that states, "duty to God" and that is kind of metaphor. If it is please enlighten me.
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Sure, here's some enlightenment. There are a few ways to define what would constitute a religious organization. One would be to say that it is an organization built to support a specific religion. The BSA wouldn't fall under this definition. They are an organization built to promote scouting and the outdoors. As part of this organization, they require a belief in God, butt isn't central to the purpose of the organization. The other definition would be by tax code. While the BSA is a 501(c) tax exempt organization, which is used by religious institutions, the 501(c) classification is for non-profit organizations including, "Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals."

The BSA could easily fall under Educational, possibly Charitable, or maybe even an unlikely Amateur Sports, but most people wouldn't say they are a religious organization first. Most would say educational first.

auspexd said:
Again, I don't care that they are a religious organization. I don't care if they discriminate. Until they release a public statement directly and plainly stating that, "As a religious organization we feel we have the right to exclude X population based on our core values," I will continue to call them cowards.
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Again, they aren't a religious organization, so you are never going to get them to say they are. They are a private, non-profit educational organization.

auspexd said:
Many of the merit badges and promotions within the organization are built around developing a relationship with God... Really, you don't say. Why don't you tell me more about how inclusive, welcoming not to mention how totally non-religious the BSA is... Please, do tell.
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I said that it would be nice if they were more inclusive, but that if you were an atheist in the organization it might be difficult.

I might be welcome in a gay bar, but I shouldn't act offended if I get hit on. So if I'm an atheist in the BSA, I shouldn't be surprised when some part of my scouting asks me to try and develop a better relationship with God.

auspexd said:
Politics aside, I do think that the whole discussion about "merit" badges in a new media social context is an interesting conversation to have. Look up some of the TED talks about it. The nissan leaf "grows" as you save gas... in the near future, corporations/big government could use tech like google glass and biometrics to give you "merit" badges in just about everything. Health and car insurance companies could give you a discount on if you are driving safely or working out. Businesses do this already with rewards cards. Imagine unlocking achievements for your son or daughter when they brush their teeth every night for a week. May you live in interesting times, indeed.
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I have Jane McGonigal's, "Reality is Broken" book in my Audible queue. I've listened to most of those TED Talks (if not all of them) already. It is interesting and really could be a big motivator to help people achieve their goals. What is really needed, I feel, is a way to customize "merit badges" so individuals can create their own itinerary. Right now it feels too much like corporations telling me how I should live or gamify my life. I should be the one making the score board, setting the achievements. A tool to help me do it would be awesome.
 
d_stilgar said:
Sure, here's some enlightenment. There are a few ways to define what would constitute a religious organization. One would be to say that it is an organization built to support a specific religion. The BSA wouldn't fall under this definition. They are an organization built to promote scouting and the outdoors. As part of this organization, they require a belief in God, butt isn't central to the purpose of the organization. The other definition would be by tax code. While the BSA is a 501(c) tax exempt organization, which is used by religious institutions, the 501(c) classification is for non-profit organizations including, "Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals."

The BSA could easily fall under Educational, possibly Charitable, or maybe even an unlikely Amateur Sports, but most people wouldn't say they are a religious organization first. Most would say educational first.
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Ok, great... thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. In fact, you have motivated me to go out and start my own organization. I will call it the Pineapple Programmers of America or the PPA for short. As an organization we will try and promote good programming techniques, skills and documentation habits from an early age. We will provide job training and assistance as well as instilling good moral values in the youth of today to prepare them for a better future. This organization will be built to promote programming and civil service. As part of this organization, we require a belief in worshiping the holy pineapple by becoming one with it through a non-traditional orifice every high Thursday once a member has come of age but it isn't central to the purpose of the organization.

The PPA could easily fall under Educational, possibly Charitable, or maybe even an unlikely Scientific, but most people wouldn't say we are a religious organization first. Most would say educational first.

Insert your own favorite you_see_what_I_did_there.jpg meme

d_stilgar said:
So if I'm an atheist in the BSA, I shouldn't be surprised when some part of my scouting asks me to try and develop a better relationship with God.
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Ah, that would be an awesome conversation. Hey there scout, in order to progress with your friends through the ranks we want you to try an cultivate a relationship with an imaginary construct. I like to think of a circle-square myself. It's my best friend in the whole world because it lets me pick what movie we see every single time. It's cool like that.

d_stilgar said:
I have Jane McGonigal's, "Reality is Broken" book in my Audible queue. I've listened to most of those TED Talks (if not all of them) already. It is interesting and really could be a big motivator to help people achieve their goals. What is really needed, I feel, is a way to customize "merit badges" so individuals can create their own itinerary. Right now it feels too much like corporations telling me how I should live or gamify my life. I should be the one making the score board, setting the achievements. A tool to help me do it would be awesome.
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It's a good but quick read. I could be a motivational tool but it could also be a tool for social control. And good luck opting out when it gets here because just like facebook and whatever replaces it, if you aren't online and have a verifiable [sanitized and morally right] presence then you must be hiding something.
 
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