No DirectX 11.1 for Windows 7 Planned?

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Supposedly there are no plans for DirectX 11.1 for Windows 7 planned. The question is, is this really a big deal for any of you?

In a recent post on the Microsoft Answers forum, Microsoft employee Daniel Moth stated, "DirectX 11.1 is part of Windows 8, just like DirectX 11 was part of Windows 7. DirectX 11 was made available for Vista .... but at this point there is no plan for DirectX 11.1 to be made available on Windows 7."
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Not too worried about it, this is more for developers then gamers. This isn't like the difference between DX9.0b and DX9.0c.
 
The fewer OSes a DX version uses, usually the fewer games that use it. Making something focusesed on or usuable for a much much smaller audience is never going to be the better option.
 
DeathPrincess said:
The fewer OSes a DX version uses, usually the fewer games that use it. Making something focusesed on or usuable for a much much smaller audience is never going to be the better option.
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If you believe, like I do, that their long term goal is to push regular gaming to the xbox, then it makes perfect sense for them to intentionally try to fragment the pc gaming market.
 
With all of the stupid moves Microsoft has been making lately, this is one more that adds to the reasons why my next system won't be windows based. Microsoft no longer has my consumer support.
 
Cause limiting DX10 to Vista and Windows 7, and leaving Windows XP stuck in DX9 worked out so well didn't it?

No reason for developers to switch to OpenGL.
200902121422034915.jpg
 
Ashbringer said:
Cause limiting DX10 to Vista and Windows 7, and leaving Windows XP stuck in DX9 worked out so well didn't it?

No reason for developers to switch to OpenGL.
200902121422034915.jpg
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DX10 was not compatible with Windows XP due to the new driver model. Windows Vista, 7 and 8 share the same codebase so not allowing DX11.1 to run on Windows 7 would be a business decision.
 
lol @ opengl suggestion. there's a reason why, when both apis are available to developers, that they overwhelmingly choose DX on Windows. Only part of it is the broken nature of many vendor opengl driver versions. :p (really, it mostly because of how handy the whole DX API is for handling graphics, network, sound and input, plus how long it's supported without features being deprecated arbitrarily... i.e. a DX7/8/9 game still runs on Win8 with DX11.1).

Anyways, it's not a huge deal. DX 11.1 only adds a couple of features that may be useful on Win7, but nothing is an absolutely must have for gamers. Plus by the time more than a couple of games which use DX11.1 in meaningful ways arrive, Win9 will be coming. Curiously, DX11.1 is supported on Windows Server 2012 and Win8 RT (there are a couple of features to use reduced precision which could be handy for lower end GPUs). http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh404562(v=vs.85).aspx
 
The only reason to use OpenGL is if you want portability. That is the only reason any of the developers cite for using it.
 
I've been seeing 'OpenCL' being tossed around these past few years. How much more different/better/worse is it than OpenGL?
 
Alpert said:
It don't matter because games still use DX9.
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For the very reason that DX10 or DX11 never made it t Windows XP. Developers will almost always leave a DX9 option in their games just for XP. Honestly DX11.1 isn't something to worry about, but eventually DX12 or whatever will be Windows 8 exclusive. DirectX is extremely fragmented as it is.
 
The interesting thing about DX10 not on XP was that there were work arounds on the internet to make it work. So if Joe Blow could get it to work, you'd think MS could get it function, as well. It had nothing at all to do with what XP didn't have. They wanted to make people upgrade, or swap gaming platforms. Same thing with different versions of IE only being available on certain platforms. Which was a laughable reason to upgrade.

The strange thing is, even to today, there aren't that many games that require dx10 or better! Yes, they're out there, but I only bought my first DX10/11 game this year. And I have over 200 games on Steam, in addition to the other games I've bought outside Steam.

So, did this move by MS, at any point, hurt my gaming experience? No! Gaming companies knew who was using what and developed for it appropriately. So, once again, I issue forth the big 'who cares'.
 
bucket said:
I've been seeing 'OpenCL' being tossed around these past few years. How much more different/better/worse is it than OpenGL?
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Open CL is a competitor to cuda for doing more generalized computing tasks using the GPU. It's has nothing to do with 3d acceleration.
 
1. doesn't matter right now
2. If there is a market for it, developers will use it
3. If win8 doesn't sell well, developers will not use it
4. some people may switch to Xbox
5. Win7 uses may wait on Win9, so will developers
6. if Win9 does not fix the vista/metro senslessness, I'll be switching to Linux
7. Valve already has Steam available for Linux

Just keep going M$ and you will see your user base shift. The more you target the sheeple, the fewer enthusiasts will follow you. I have an Xbox. Just wanted to watch netflix. Now I need to upgrade and pay a $5 monthly fee so I can use netflix that I already pay a monthly fee for? No thanks, Wii SD resolution will do for me. I do not play online games and have no need for the "Live" service.
 
Microsoft: We're making a new version of the OS and, if you want the newest graphics APIs, you'll need to spend $40 to upgrade.

Consumer: YOU SUCK!

Microsoft: We're making a new game console and if you want to play any of the newest games, you need to buy a new $400 console.

Consumers: YAY!



Sometimes I don't get people.
 
I don't see why people are upset about this... This is the same as happened with essentially every new version of Windows.
 
If MS wants to push the adoption of a DX version I believe this will be a bad move because I am thinking that Windows 7 will be the next XP. There will be to many people who do not want to go to Windows 8 for various reasons, and that really cuts out a big portion of their market. Not only that but with increasing competition in the mobile arena, OpenGL and other more open graphics API's are getting used more and more. App developers are going to become familiar with using those API's and you know, people hate change. If I was a programmer I might be experienced with various different languages and API's and what not, but I would always enjoy using my most familiar ones over the less familiar ones, especially for work (hobbying with something unfamiliar is always fun, but the unfamiliar in a work environment can be taxing and add to the stress).

Now, with this just being a small patch I honestly don't see this having much impact. As a matter of fact, it's probably mostly developer stuff, and stuff that is probably more geared towards Windows 8 than Windows 7.
 
defunctdoormat said:
The interesting thing about DX10 not on XP was that there were work arounds on the internet to make it work. So if Joe Blow could get it to work, you'd think MS could get it function, as well. It had nothing at all to do with what XP didn't have. They wanted to make people upgrade, or swap gaming platforms.
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I'd like to see a link that got DX10 working on Windows XP.
 
Kitebasher said:
If MS wants to push the adoption of a DX version I believe this will be a bad move because I am thinking that Windows 7 will be the next XP. There will be to many people who do not want to go to Windows 8 for various reasons, and that really cuts out a big portion of their market. Not only that but with increasing competition in the mobile arena, OpenGL and other more open graphics API's are getting used more and more. App developers are going to become familiar with using those API's and you know, people hate change. If I was a programmer I might be experienced with various different languages and API's and what not, but I would always enjoy using my most familiar ones over the less familiar ones, especially for work (hobbying with something unfamiliar is always fun, but the unfamiliar in a work environment can be taxing and add to the stress).

Now, with this just being a small patch I honestly don't see this having much impact. As a matter of fact, it's probably mostly developer stuff, and stuff that is probably more geared towards Windows 8 than Windows 7.
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The big game studios are looking to openGL alternatives already for their base API. The reason DX gets so much support is the better drivers from hardware vendors and the console market and PC market. The transition to openGL isn't as difficult as some people make it seem (in fact VALVe has stated that it was pretty straightforward and simple). No, the biggest hurdle is still the most common denominator. If the PS4 and new Xbox feature x86 CPUs then it's likely DX11 will be the common API platform, but that won't relieve some of the issues and hesitation big game studios like Blizz, VALVe/Steam, and EA have towards MS's new Win8 Metro app store and their competing services.

What I mean is, we might see OEMs and game studios start looking at openGL and Linux more than they have in the past if it presents an opportunity for them to make more money. Considering MS's 30% cut on sales via their App store and competing product lines with their own OEMs, that "rumor" has quite a bit of credibility.
 
With STEAM already being natively developed on Linux (entered semi-public beta testing a few weeks ago), there will be a growing demand for cross-platform compatibility. DirectX does not offer this.

It's worth noting that the source engine has had OpenGL support for many years now, and quite a few others have also.

Even still, it seems ridiculous to limit your game to a single platform in this modern day. Why reduce the platforms you can sell on? I'm not even just talking about PCs either. Take a look at angry birds.
 
Demon10000 said:
Microsoft: We're making a new version of the OS and, if you want the newest graphics APIs, you'll need to spend $40 to upgrade.

Consumer: YOU SUCK!

Microsoft: We're making a new game console and if you want to play any of the newest games, you need to buy a new $400 console.

Consumers: YAY!



Sometimes I don't get people.
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I think you're blending two spheres that are phobic of each other. The majority of users who are saying the limit to Windows 8 is dumb almost assuredly will NOT buy a console in such a manner as you've illustrated.
 
DX updates are usually unnecessary. I could give a rats ass. I dont plan to ever upgrade to win8 so...... In most games I play I usually downgrade to lowest DX possible for max fps anyways so.....
 
So is DX11.1 actually a major shift away from DX11? With XP to Vista it at least was an entirely new revision number, DX11.1 seems like an minor upgrade if anything just by numbering scheme... but of course you get Firefox who blows that numbering scheme out of the water.

My view is that if you don't know what you're missing, you're not really missing anything, so no big deal. Games will still work with DX!1 and they'll still look perfectly fine.
 
Does anyone care? Games barely use DX10...especially since there are so many console ports/games developed that have to also run on consoles (the former are slapped together, the latter being developed with PC in mind a la BF3).
 
Most people don't like upgrading OS unless your doing an entirely new system, which comes with a huge additional cost... however this is the first time MS has offered such a cheap OS so its kind of an odd situation.
 
sfsuphysics said:
So is DX11.1 actually a major shift away from DX11? With XP to Vista it at least was an entirely new revision number, DX11.1 seems like an minor upgrade if anything just by numbering scheme... but of course you get Firefox who blows that numbering scheme out of the water.

My view is that if you don't know what you're missing, you're not really missing anything, so no big deal. Games will still work with DX!1 and they'll still look perfectly fine.
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The biggest addition to DX11.1 revolves around 3D support. Outside of that it offers next to nothing for the average gamer. Considering just how few people use the 3D features in place and the low minority of enthusiasts purchasing 120mhz monitors (even fewer buy them for 3D), it really makes no difference whether DX11 or DX11.1 compliant.


Sovereign said:
Does anyone care? Games barely use DX10...especially since there are so many console ports/games developed that have to also run on consoles (the former are slapped together, the latter being developed with PC in mind a la BF3).
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The next consoles are all AMD, and supposedly both the PS and Xbox are x86 as well. The DX11.1 compliant hardware would mean the lowest common denominator for all 3 consoles would be DX11. Of course, openGL offers a transition to non-x86 based consoles and form factors like tablets and smartphones as well, so how developers will approach the next generation of consoles is certainly still up in the air.
 
Kind of interesting that this platform update for Windows 7 installs DX1.11, apparently, and is required by the IE 10 RP for Win 7, which installs the platform update automatically.

There's definitely a "DX1.11" update included in the platform update, but it's very ambiguous as to whether it also updates D3d to 1.11. Doesn't say it does--doesn't say it doesn't.
 
Inu said:
Most people don't like upgrading OS unless your doing an entirely new system, which comes with a huge additional cost... however this is the first time MS has offered such a cheap OS so its kind of an odd situation.
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Microsoft probably aim to encourage people to upgrade every 3 years or so. Personally I don't think its worth the trouble of learning an entire new OS again within such short time frame considering the fact that I am happy with Windows 7 at the moment.
 
Demon10000 said:
Microsoft: We're making a new version of the OS and, if you want the newest graphics APIs, you'll need to spend $40 to upgrade.

Consumer: YOU SUCK!

Microsoft: We're making a new game console and if you want to play any of the newest games, you need to buy a new $400 console.

Consumers: YAY!



Sometimes I don't get people.
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You clearly don't know about PC gamers.

Microsoft: We're making a new game console and if you want to play any of the newest games, you need to buy a new $400 console.

PC gamer: Da fuck would I care?
 
11.1 Only matters if Xbox 720 supports it, and considering what the 360 dx model is like it's unlikly that the 720 will support a proper version of dx11, although you never know.
 
Semantics said:
11.1 Only matters if Xbox 720 supports it, and considering what the 360 dx model is like it's unlikly that the 720 will support a proper version of dx11, although you never know.
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Which will probably happen, as the next Xbox will run on top of the Windows 8 kernel. They are moving to a one OS on all appliances (Windows 8, Windows RT, WP8 and Windows 8 Embedded) and DX games would run on them all, with little effort to compile to each platform. I can see Xbox Arcade game you buy at MS Store and it runs on Xbox, Phone, PC, Tablet and your car, you save your game to the cloud and can pick it up where you stopped with any of the devices in any place (although more ersource intensive Xbox and PC games may be limited to these devices).
 
It would be nice to see support for Win7, but i do not see a reason to bitch in the near future.
My 5870 seems to be holding up just fine and im not even going to think about upgrading OS or hardware until the new consoles come out and we start to see games that truly need either to run.
 
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. said:
That's ok Micro$oft, because at this time there are no plans of me ever buy Windows 8.
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the 90s called, they want their Micro$oft back.

can't believe people still use this crap. i bet you call the internet "the internet information super highway" and use AOL.
 
I laugh at everyone who always says "M$ keeps messing up, you're going to lose customers" BAWW

No one cares. There is no realistic alternative. If you are a gamer, you're on windows. Or you run OSX... with windows as a second boot option.

So you're still running windows if you want to PC game.
 
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