British Hacker Spared Extradition to U.S

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Holy crap, after almost a decade of trying, it looks like Gary McKinnon finally found a way to keep from being extradited to the United States.

A British computer hacker accused by the United States of breaking into military systems will be spared from extradition because he is at risk of committing suicide, interior minister Theresa May said on Tuesday. Gary McKinnon, who has been fighting extradition for seven years, faced up to 60 years in an American jail if found guilty of what one U.S. prosecutor called the "biggest military computer hack of all time".
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Hopefully they will at least prosecute him under British law ... he did commit a crime that he even admitted to ... whether the US penalty is appropriate or not, some penalty is needed ... if hacking continues to go unpunished we will just see more of it ... throw a few hackers in prison and it might get the others attention ;)
 
What a crock of shit, basically this same ruling could justify allowing virutally anyone to avoid prision since being locked up could increase their suicide risk.
 
Let him off himself, that would be sixty less years of another person we have to fund to leave sitting in our prison system.
 
Do the crime, do the time.

Maybe this sissy should get a murse from the other thread.
 
at the very least they should at least garnish a portion of his wages (if he works) or his guardians, if he doesn't, to cover the damages he caused ... I dislike this idea of Asberger's (which I am not totally convinced qualifies as a special mental disorder) somehow qualifies a person as a sociopath ... I have never been a fan of the insanity defense :(
 
My guess to why this decision was made is the United States justice system would give too harsh of a punishment.

60 years for reading government/NASA documents. locking him away for life.
 
Alpert said:
My guess to why this decision was made is the United States justice system would give too harsh of a punishment.

60 years for reading government/NASA documents. locking him away for life.
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It might have more to do with the $700,000 in damages that he caused as well ;)
 
Yep. The British Court probably looked at the totality of the circumstances. We're the only first world country that meets out incarceration and punishment like we do. Because of this, the burden on taxpayers is tremendous. We also take non-violent offenders (like a high school kid carrying a quarter oz of weed), throw them in jail, ruin their lives, and make it extremely difficult to live a normal life and get a really good job after they get out. Creating more potential criminals isn't a solution and making punishments harsher helps makes first time offenders into life offenders :)

Advocating locking this guy up and throwing away the key just perpetuates the problem.
 
kbrickley said:
It might have more to do with the $700,000 in damages that he caused as well ;)
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Nope. The remedy for damages is civil, meaning a fine or damages awarded to cover the amount he did in damages. Jail time is for three purposes: as a deterrent, as a punishment, and to remove the person from civil society because they are a danger to themselves or others.
 
Up to 60 years in jail (ie. life) for snooping about aliens is ridiculous. Read about this man's circumstances. His life is already ruined enough through no fault of his own. I'm not saying there should be no punishment, but years in jail isn't going to do this guy any favors. The best outcome would probably be a Kevin Mitnick-esque ban from computers and internet for a number of years. (A little fresh air and some time away from the internet would do this guy some good anyway.)
 
We spend how much on the military and people can still hack us? How much did we spend back then when he he hacked us? How much of that money went to cyber security?

If we spent a good amount back then, I say let him go.
 
Is it too much to ask that the state politburo display even a shred of competency? This guy is no hacker and calling him such is a disservice to everyone; he walked in to a bunch of unsecured computer network that was out in the open for everyone to see and access.

If some crackpot UFO conspiracy theorist can manage to get such access, imagine what someone who actually knows what they are doing is capable of.
 
Personally I say fuck it. So he hacked some shit, who cares? There's no way he did anywhere near the damage that the actual government has done. I'm sick of them hiding everything and lying to us all the damn time anyways!

It's just like the whole Wikileaks thing...people mad at Julian Assange because the info leaked could have put some US officials in harms way. However, no one stops to think all the harm these officials do on a daily bases to everything and everyone. Political damages, civilian damages, economic damages, damages to those in the Middle East, etc...makes me not give a shit about some asshole that was doing something that they should not be doing in the first place. I don't care if it was for "national security" or not. "National security" is nothing but a blanket statement meaning, basically, "Its none of your business so there for we don't have to say shit". I highly doubt most of it is for "security" in any form.

Alright I'm going to stop before I go any further...(you're welcome! :p).
 
700,000 of damages or 700,000 cost to hire programmers to fix the bugs that allowed him to hack into the system?
 
one swell foop said:
Nope. The remedy for damages is civil, meaning a fine or damages awarded to cover the amount he did in damages. Jail time is for three purposes: as a deterrent, as a punishment, and to remove the person from civil society because they are a danger to themselves or others.
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Lets see here...damages done...I fail to see how anything he did caused ANY damage what so ever, let alone $700,000 (maybe that's what it cost the government to install actual security on their servers).

As far as jail time goes, he deserves none. Not to go on some political rant (as I did above) but it always shocks me how people like this can get into SO much trouble and severe punishment when what they do/did is no where near the amount of damage that CEO's and politicians have done to this country and its people for decades. How about we lock these corrupt ass people up instead of some "hacker" that stumbled upon a OPEN server.

Just plain bullocks! BULLOCKS I TELL YOU! BULLOCKS!!!

*Please note that the angered undertone of my response was in no way directed towards "one swell foop"
 
JoeUser said:
Personally I say fuck it. So he hacked some shit, who cares? There's no way he did anywhere near the damage that the actual government has done. I'm sick of them hiding everything and lying to us all the damn time anyways!
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If you had followed the case, you would have known that this asshat deleted complete drives and directories to cover his tracks. There were projects erased that had thousands of man hours in them and data that couldn't be replaced. Those projects were tax payer funded AND were not included in the government's damage estimate.

I know the "guvment is evil" is the cool thing to say but the average state / federal employee is not "the guvment" and seeing years worth of hard work ruined by some jerkoff that was stoned looking for UFO crap sucks. You may not want to see "damages" but there was plenty.

Then the guy all the sudden develops Assberger's, now he's suicidal, etc. etc. etc. I have no sympathy for him and he should stand trial...even if it is in the UK.
 
Steve said:
If you had followed the case, you would have known that this asshat deleted complete drives and directories to cover his tracks. There were projects erased that had thousands of man hours in them and data that couldn't be replaced. Those projects were tax payer funded AND were not included in the government's damage estimate.

I know the "guvment is evil" is the cool thing to say but the average state / federal employee is not "the guvment" and seeing years worth of hard work ruined by some jerkoff that was stoned looking for UFO crap sucks. You may not want to see "damages" but there was plenty.

Then the guy all the sudden develops Assberger's, now he's suicidal, etc. etc. etc. I have no sympathy for him and he should stand trial...even if it is in the UK.
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ah so he deleted files, however why didnt they government have backups? I can see how deleting the files is damaging but if it is worth that much money they really should have made backup of the files.
 
TheBuzzer said:
ah so he deleted files, however why didnt they government have backups? I can see how deleting the files is damaging but if it is worth that much money they really should have made backup of the files.
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Yeah this. Some good points were made here, but the government didn't have backups, they didn't secure the server...I mean, there is NO ONE to blame but themselves. Sure Gary McKinnon was the one that hacked them, but had the government done what should have been done in the first place none of this would have ever happened. If anything they should be THANKING him for helping them find security holes.

Imagine if someone who had real negative intent were to have discovered this first...
 
TheBuzzer said:
ah so he deleted files, however why didnt they government have backups? I can see how deleting the files is damaging but if it is worth that much money they really should have made backup of the files.
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Mostly irrelevant.
 
JoeUser said:
Yeah this. Some good points were made here, but the government didn't have backups, they didn't secure the server...I mean, there is NO ONE to blame but themselves.
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I hear this all the time..but, just so you know...it sounds like:

House burglarized because of unlocked window = you totally deserved it
Take candy from a baby = sugar is bad for kids
Get mugged in a dark alley = victims fault, shouldn't have walked there
Woman can't fight off rapist = she should've had karate lessons
Con a mentally handicapped person = retards shouldn't have money anyways

:(
 
Steve said:
I hear this all the time..but, just so you know...it sounds like:

House burglarized because of unlocked window = you totally deserved it
Take candy from a baby = sugar is bad for kids
Get mugged in a dark alley = victims fault, shouldn't have walked there
Woman can't fight off rapist = she should've had karate lessons
Con a mentally handicapped person = retards shouldn't have money anyways

:(
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Saudi justice!
 
Steve said:
I hear this all the time..but, just so you know...it sounds like:

House burglarized because of unlocked window = you totally deserved it
Take candy from a baby = sugar is bad for kids
Get mugged in a dark alley = victims fault, shouldn't have walked there
Woman can't fight off rapist = she should've had karate lessons
Con a mentally handicapped person = retards shouldn't have money anyways

:(
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All those are totally different though. This is government computers on a non-secure network with information that apparently SHOULD have been secured. This is nothing but gross incompetence on their part.

As far as your examples let me say that:

House burglarized because of unlocked window = you totally deserved it
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This is why you should keep your doors/windows locked...its not that hard to do. Does one deserve to get burglarized? No, but there are measures you can take (like locking windows/doors) to help prevent this.

Take candy from a baby = sugar is bad for kids
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No one actually does this...and you're right, sugar is bad for kids, so they shouldn't be having candy to begin with...especially if they're infants.

Get mugged in a dark alley = victims fault, shouldn't have walked there
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Partially true. Common sense would tell anyone "Maybe you shouldn't go this way"...natural instinct. If something does happen when you walk down a dark alley it is, in my opinion, kind of your fault. We don't live in a world of sugar plums and dancing faries.

Woman can't fight off rapist = she should've had karate lessons
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Learning self defense is NEVER a bad idea...however, no matter what you know this can always happen. It is also a very VERY far stretched example of the topic situation. If even related at all.

Con a mentally handicapped person = retards shouldn't have money anyways
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Again, this thing can always happen. But there are always way to be more secure with your money, mentally handicapped or not. As with the last example, this isn't a world full of sugar plums.
 
JoeUser said:
All those are totally different though. *GIGANTIC SNIP* .
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Well, at least you went down the list and confirmed everything I said.

Damn man, I have no idea what to say to a person that believes the victims of crimes are to blame. I guess all I can say is that I am extremely disappointed. :(

You're right, "We don't live in a world of sugar plums and dancing faries" precisely because of people that blame the homeowner for being burglarized, the woman for walking the wrong way, the baby for having the candy and the scumbags who take advantage of that by robbing, raping and stealing.

And on that note, I'm out of this convo...

Wow. Just....wow. :eek:
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
What a crock of shit, basically this same ruling could justify allowing virutally anyone to avoid prision since being locked up could increase their suicide risk.
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Doesn't mean he won't do time in England though, they have close observation cells for unstable inmates as well, he's just decreased his odds of being shived or someones butt buddy.
 
Steve said:
Well, at least you went down the list and confirmed everything I said.

Damn man, I have no idea what to say to a person that believes the victims of crimes are to blame. I guess all I can say is that I am extremely disappointed. :(

You're right, "We don't live in a world of sugar plums and dancing faries" precisely because of people that blame the homeowner for being burglarized, the woman for walking the wrong way, the baby for having the candy and the scumbags who take advantage of that by robbing, raping and stealing.

And on that note, I'm out of this convo...

Wow. Just....wow. :eek:
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No.

I didn't say that if something bad happens to someone its entirely their fault. What I said was that bad things are ALWAYS going to happen but there are ways for you to actively prevent them...or at least try to.

The dark alley is a perfect example. Sure its not YOUR fault that some thug robs you, but it is YOUR fault for walking down a dark dank alley. You know, either by experience or all the people that die in alley ways all the time on Law & Order, that it most likely just isn't a good idea in the first place. So having said that, no its not ENTIRELY your fault, but all of the blame can't exactly be placed entirely on the robbers hands. You don't want to get robbed? Don't walk down a dark alley. It isn't that hard to comprehend. Never have I, personally, seen a dark alley and said, "Fuck it, what's the worst that can happen? I'm going to walk down this alley anyways even though I know the inherent risks!".

That's just like a mountain biker that breaks his leg going down a hill. Sure his bike crashed because a tire blew out...not his fault...but he was the one that was on the mountain to begin with and KNOWS the dangers of doing what hes doing. Did he pop the tire? No. But because that is always a factor that means there's always a risk of hurting yourself. If you don't want to break your legs in a mountain biking accident don't go mountain biking.

There are an infinite examples like this. Now I'm done.
 
Recruit him instead, we're gonna need all the help we can against the chinese unofficial state sponsored cyber hackers
 
JoeUser said:
No.

I didn't say that if something bad happens to someone its entirely their fault. What I said was that bad things are ALWAYS going to happen but there are ways for you to actively prevent them...or at least try to.

The dark alley is a perfect example. Sure its not YOUR fault that some thug robs you, but it is YOUR fault for walking down a dark dank alley. You know, either by experience or all the people that die in alley ways all the time on Law & Order, that it most likely just isn't a good idea in the first place. So having said that, no its not ENTIRELY your fault, but all of the blame can't exactly be placed entirely on the robbers hands. You don't want to get robbed? Don't walk down a dark alley. It isn't that hard to comprehend. Never have I, personally, seen a dark alley and said, "Fuck it, what's the worst that can happen? I'm going to walk down this alley anyways even though I know the inherent risks!".

That's just like a mountain biker that breaks his leg going down a hill. Sure his bike crashed because a tire blew out...not his fault...but he was the one that was on the mountain to begin with and KNOWS the dangers of doing what hes doing. Did he pop the tire? No. But because that is always a factor that means there's always a risk of hurting yourself. If you don't want to break your legs in a mountain biking accident don't go mountain biking.

There are an infinite examples like this. Now I'm done.
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Wow ... I must respectively disagree ... what a horribly paranoid world we would need to live in if that was the bar we had to follow ... a mountain doesn't choose to hurt a person ... a person who commits a crime has to make a conscious choice to commit that crime (even when it is a crime of passion) ... just because someone makes that choice slightly easier shouldn't make it now the responsibility of the person victimized ... the person who commits the crime is solely responsible for that crime ... it should never be mitigated to any degree because their victim make it appear as an attractive crime of opportunity ... she or he was asking for it should never be a valid defense OR justification ;)

Back on topic ... the government doesn't need to hire this hacker since he isn't that competent and he is a foreign national ... they do have some patriots though, like the one who helped them bring Bradley Manning to justice ;)
 
Look, this is a legal ruling. You guys are going waaaaaaaaay outside how this would be evaluated legally.

1) The damages thing. Yes he did damage. The amount of actual damage would be determined by a jury if he faced trial. If sentenced to jail he would be sentenced for the criminal act(s), not for the damage. The remedy for a crime is up to the criminal system. The remedy for monetary damages is money, and is a civil remedy, not a remedy at law, which would be issued by the criminal system. They are two separate issues with two separate remedies, though the issues may be intertwined in certain respects.

2) As far as the law is concerned, the government was under no burden to protect itself from the illegal acts performed on it. As a practical matter, would it be good if they had some sort of, or some sort of more effective, security protocols? Hell yes, however, the guy's punishment would not be mitigated by the fact that they did not. Would the damages probably have been less if the government had backups? Probably, but honestly, it's speculation. There are endless possibilities, including that the backups may be been comprised or corrupted and unrecoverable, so the claim that less harm would have occurred if they had backups is not provable. Just because I have my windows open on a nice autumn day doesn't lessen the culpability of the criminal that enters through the open window and steals my stuff or of the vandal who enters illegally and vandalizes or breaks things. I am legally entitled to assume that no one will invade my house without my permission and the government, for the purposes of any criminal or civil trial, is entitled to assume that no one will illegally enter their servers, take things, and/or delete data.
 
Climber said:
Well this explains why you think Julian Assange is innocent of rape, she wanted it and it was her fault. You are one piece of work...
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Can you please show me where I said he was innocent of rape? Didn't think so...good job taking things out of content. Your credibility now is 0.

Have a nice day!
 
It's about time the British Government grew a set and blocked this.

Brilliant news
 
The .gov would do better running recruiting hackers rather than trying to charge someone because THEY fucked up.
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
What a crock of shit, basically this same ruling could justify allowing virutally anyone to avoid prision since being locked up could increase their suicide risk.
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pfft.

This ruling is about extradition not about prison sentences. McKinnon has been living with the threat of extradition for 10 years, is that fair? He didn't commit a crime in the USA, why should he be extradited to face punishment there?

The US should consider itself lucky that McKinnon exposed their gaping security holes for free (he left notes for them telling them)
 
It's a pity he's not coming over. :( We could use more British people in the United States to demonstrate proper spoken and written English to us. Oh well, maybe if we drop the charges against him and offer him a lot of money, he could be convinced to visit.
 
So let him kill himself. Who gives a fuck?

If any of our nutjobs did that to the U.K. I'd send them over via catapult.
 
damicatz said:
This guy is no hacker and calling him such is a disservice to everyone; he walked in to a bunch of unsecured computer network that was out in the open for everyone to see and access.QUOTE]If that's the case, then I'd say that there's another criminal element to be investigated, namely the idiots that left the system wide open for virtually anyone to peruse.
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