Apple Rethinking Samsung Chip Partnership

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Call me sometime and we’ll do lunch: Just exactly how do giant corporations break their bonds of business? Apple has reportedly begun the process of working with Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) on the production of its chips and ramping down its association with Samsung.

"Apple is working with TSMC at 20 nanometers," said Gus Richard, a chip analyst at Piper Jaffray, referring to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company's most advanced 20-nanometer (nm) manufacturing process.
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well, good for samsung, not sure if it will be good for Apple, samsung has all the experiences in the electronics front, while apple... err the only expertise I can see is their expertise to create magical fairy dust of completely utterly BS :D
 
better sell your samsung stock... thats going to hurt samsung for a while
 
It's called biting the hand that feeds you, and Apple bit hard. While Samsung is no software company, they do make great hardware. Though I doubt Apple will hurt from separating itself from Samsung, nor will Samsung hurt either. I do believe it will give Samsung the ability to work harder on it's Galaxy line of cell phones.
 
Tsmc has a bad track record with moving to new processes, samsung not so much. This will hurt apple in the long run. Not sure if they are trying to save a buck but I'm not sure why they chose this.
 
Samsung's stock may take a small dip but they are such a diversified company. They make everything from phones and tablets to appliances to home theater and even cars. Although these days, their car business is not what is used to be.

Apple is making a power play for not getting the upper hand that they sought. Even though Samsung helped make them the company they are today via manufacturing reliable and powerful tech that drive the iProducts.

For instance, I am still using my Apple Cinema display from 2003. But the LCD panel was made by Samsung.

I regret buying Apple products ever since the lawsuits balooned but knowing that some of the money still made it to companies like Samsung brings me a little peace.
 
Trimlock said:
Tsmc has a bad track record with moving to new processes, samsung not so much. This will hurt apple in the long run. Not sure if they are trying to save a buck but I'm not sure why they chose this.
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Yes, it will hurt them. Apple product release schedule will be a mess if something is delayed, or limited production can't meet demand.
 
EngrChris said:
Yes, it will hurt them. Apple product release schedule will be a mess if something is delayed, or limited production can't meet demand.
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Yup. Did Apple miss the myriad issues Nvidia encountered trying to get working Fermi/Kepler chips from TSMC? Their track record in transitioning to and ramping up a new process is terrible...I think Apple and TSMC deserve each other.
 
Apple is not the only one that is dropping Samsung. HTC just announce that it was dropping Samsung to.
 
EngrChris said:
Yes, it will hurt them. Apple product release schedule will be a mess if something is delayed, or limited production can't meet demand.
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Agreed -- and of course we will hear all sorts of excuses as to why any of their future products suffer from avoidable delays.

Just like a spoiled child apple didn't get what it wanted and took his toys and went home to cry. I wouldn't feel sorry if they suffered severe shortage or quality problems because they ditched the one company that really knows how to manufacture.
 
dyzophoria said:
well, good for samsung, not sure if it will be good for Apple, samsung has all the experiences in the electronics front, while apple... err the only expertise I can see is their expertise to create magical fairy dust of completely utterly BS :D
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They hired on one of Samsung's top chip designer (IIRC?)
 
Seems now that Jobs is gone, Apple is just determined to self destruct themselves.
 
Where are all the Applesauce eatin' people to chime in on how this is nothing but a good thing for Apple and doom and gloom for Samsung? :confused:
 
Airbrushkid said:
Apple is not the only one that is dropping Samsung. HTC just announce that it was dropping Samsung to.
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Like 1% of the market. Darn.

Trimlock said:
Tsmc has a bad track record with moving to new processes, samsung not so much. This will hurt apple in the long run. Not sure if they are trying to save a buck but I'm not sure why they chose this.
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Doubt it. iBots buy the phones because the phone has the new "Apple AX" processor. It could be the same chip rebadged and they wouldn't care - it's new! Don't overestimate the stupidity of the masses.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
Like 1% of the market. Darn.

Doubt it. iBots buy the phones because the phone has the new "Apple AX" processor. It could be the same chip rebadged and they wouldn't care - it's new! Don't overestimate the stupidity of the masses.
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Are you saying Apple has not upgraded the processors within the iPhone line?

A processor does not make a phone.
 
dyzophoria said:
well, good for samsung, not sure if it will be good for Apple, samsung has all the experiences in the electronics front, while apple... err the only expertise I can see is their expertise to create magical fairy dust of completely utterly BS :D
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That magical fairy dust needs good fertilizer, and Apple produces some of the richest fertilizer around. :p

The fallout from this should produce some interesting results. Samsung loses a big source of income, but is freed up to do new things, Apple loses a big source of hardware and has to work with a new supplier and get back up to speed. Who will get the upper hand? Will the balance be tipped?
 
It seems like lose/lose to me. Samsung loses some of it's manufacturing, which unless it was backed up to the point of not being able to fufil orders, will cost them money. Apple will have to pay more to set up chip manufacturing elsewhere, though in the long run may come off better.

I don't understand the argument that Samsung will be freed up to do other things. Surely if they were wanting to do other things they could have done them at the same time.
 
They've got their own products to develop/manufacture, and if they've got other partners/potential partners that they may not have been able to work with due to resources being tied to Apple, and now they'd be able to pursue those projects. It's not like they have infinite resources to handle everything that comes their way, so I'd imagine that there's some pick and choose involved. Hard to say, just a thought.
 
mynamehere said:
They've got their own products to develop/manufacture, and if they've got other partners/potential partners that they may not have been able to work with due to resources being tied to Apple, and now they'd be able to pursue those projects. It's not like they have infinite resources to handle everything that comes their way, so I'd imagine that there's some pick and choose involved. Hard to say, just a thought.
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Yeah, I can see how it might work, I just think it's kind of a long shot to say that's the case. If they were wanting to pursue other things and manufacturing for Apple was in the way and not profitable enough, surely they would have been the ones to give Apple the boot rather than Apple trying to break away.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah, I can see how it might work, I just think it's kind of a long shot to say that's the case. If they were wanting to pursue other things and manufacturing for Apple was in the way and not profitable enough, surely they would have been the ones to give Apple the boot rather than Apple trying to break away.
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You're right, it is a long shot, but when one of your biggest customers makes no qualms about dragging you into court and cutting into your profits it just may be more efficient to look at this as cutting your losses and go for the long shot. Only the people in charge of these companies know the true reasoning behind their decisions, we're left to speculation until they decide to clue us in in the matter. I highly doubt either will crash & burn over this, but it may it may have some influence on the course of things, the question is in what ways. Will TSMC be good for Apple or will they cause them to stumble for awhile? If so, for how long, and will that time give Samsung & Android a leg up, does Samsung have business to fill the void left by Apple, will this occurrance have no lasting effect overall? It should be interesting to watch it all unfold.
 
So many Apple haters, lovely thread. (although myself, I've been shorting apple stock the past 2 weeks.)
Apple has a ton of money to spend on R&D. If you think for one second they won't inject that into TSMC to help them out, yah well, lol. They get hurt in the short run, in the long run, who knows? As for Samsung, that's a huge chunk of change missing from their pockets. Partnerships like this that get split will drop their revs.
 
dyzophoria said:
well, good for samsung, not sure if it will be good for Apple, samsung has all the experiences in the electronics front, while apple... err the only expertise I can see is their expertise to create magical fairy dust of completely utterly BS :D
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The hate is strong with this one.
 
I don't know.. I think Samsung will probably go: "ooh that tickles" . That company is humongous.. Apple can claim the highest value and blah blah blah, but what is that hey are in the in the end?: a box of money, and a lot of RD. Samsung builds ships, weapons, TVs, harddisks, I mean Christ, Apple's chip's order is probably a fart on a Sunday morning for this monster, which might be why they went with them in the first place.
I suppose the fear of lawsuit and providing Apple ammunition is the only reason they haven't drop them, I am sure their electronics order is an afterthought. Apple probably knows this, and if their contract is up or parts of it, since they are aware they poisoned the partnership, they know samsung is going to respond on the negative, like the Apple/Google maps issue.
 
Samsung is huge. They wouldn't even care. Hell they are the worlds largest SHIP manufacturer.
 
Apple Maps is a good example that Jobs was responsible for keeping Apple honest with the state of its products. The corporate suits in the US typically go into denial when a product is bad. Meeting deadlines and budget is more important that doing it right.

There was no reason to force Apple Maps without a Google Backup other than pure corporate denial.

Combine that denial with a new manufacturer and the potential for Apple to stumble is huge.
 
Samsung recently invested $4 billion more on their Texas chip plant. This could be a blow to the U.S. economy to a certain extent. Well, I hope Samsung has something else planned.
 
EngrChris said:
Yes, it will hurt them. Apple product release schedule will be a mess if something is delayed, or limited production can't meet demand.
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Yea they certainly don't have a good reputation when it comes to meeting deadlines and making new smaller processes reliable in the short term. Yields seems to be low on every new process they handle.
 
I'm not sure why there are a few people who think moving to TSMC is remotely a good idea.

As processes got smaller, TSMC track record got worst

They are also having a horrible time keeping up with production numbers (this is the biggest thing, Apple needs at least 5m stock for the first week)

Their chips either missed marks or needed drastic scaling or early voltage issues

They seem to have problems giving multiple vendors products, if theres another chip company going through Apple will have to pay TSMC to have priority before anyone else will get their product.
 
mknlb50 said:
Samsung recently invested $4 billion more on their Texas chip plant. This could be a blow to the U.S. economy to a certain extent. Well, I hope Samsung has something else planned.
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dont worry one bit, there plenty of electronics for Samsung to put chips into. their smart tvs are looking great ( at least on the store, its not like I have seen reviews or nothing)
I am glad they but all that money in.
 
khansolo said:
So many Apple haters, lovely thread. (although myself, I've been shorting apple stock the past 2 weeks.)
Apple has a ton of money to spend on R&D. If you think for one second they won't inject that into TSMC to help them out, yah well, lol. They get hurt in the short run, in the long run, who knows? As for Samsung, that's a huge chunk of change missing from their pockets. Partnerships like this that get split will drop their revs.
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Apple doesn't spend money on R&D, they spend it on patents and legal fees. Why spend money making your current product better when you can just patent every possible variation of a smartphone, and sue anyone who tries to compete with you?

Apple is going to break up with Samsung, and then sue Samsung for making LCDs (because I'm sure Apple has another one of their magical "applied for in 1992, granted in 2012" patents on having a phone with an LCD larger than 3 inches) just like their "applied in 2004, granted in 2012" slide-to-unlock patent.
 
sir-gold said:
Apple doesn't spend money on R&D, they spend it on patents and legal fees. Why spend money making your current product better when you can just patent every possible variation of a smartphone, and sue anyone who tries to compete with you?

Apple is going to break up with Samsung, and then sue Samsung for making LCDs (because I'm sure Apple has another one of their magical "applied for in 1992, granted in 2012" patents on having a phone with an LCD larger than 3 inches) just like their "applied in 2004, granted in 2012" slide-to-unlock patent.
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Another ignorant post. You guys sure like to grasp at straws and skew whatever you say for your own agenda.
 
Uvaman said:
dont worry one bit, there plenty of electronics for Samsung to put chips into. their smart tvs are looking great ( at least on the store, its not like I have seen reviews or nothing)
I am glad they but all that money in.
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It isn't that. It is that chip fabs are money presses right now no matter who you are. It is just a matter of having enough cash and the ability to get the key resources. There is no real financial risk right now (hint, most chip fabs pay for themselves within one year @ 100% output).
 
refraxion said:
sir-gold said:
Apple doesn't spend money on R&D, they spend it on patents and legal fees. Why spend money making your current product better when you can just patent every possible variation of a smartphone, and sue anyone who tries to compete with you?

Apple is going to break up with Samsung, and then sue Samsung for making LCDs (because I'm sure Apple has another one of their magical "applied for in 1992, granted in 2012" patents on having a phone with an LCD larger than 3 inches) just like their "applied in 2004, granted in 2012" slide-to-unlock patent.
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Another ignorant post. You guys sure like to grasp at straws and skew whatever you say for your own agenda.
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How is this ignorant? In 2011, apple spent more on patent portfolios and legal expenses that R&D, this is a fact. I was a little off on the slide-to-unlock patent, it was granted in 2011, not 2012, but it's still a submarine patent.

the only thing I made up was the LCD patent, and that was meant to be a joke.

so, I'm not exactly grasping at straws here. Also, I don't have an agenda, I just don't like what apple has been doing lately (and I suspect you don't actually know what "having an agenda" means, anyway)
 
I don't know why Apple is wasting time maintaining a relationship with Samsung with so much bad blood in the water between the two companies. I heard that Frito-Lay and Pringles are both seeking to find new partners in the chip making and selling business.
 
sir-gold said:
How is this ignorant? In 2011, apple spent more on patent portfolios and legal expenses that R&D, this is a fact. I was a little off on the slide-to-unlock patent, it was granted in 2011, not 2012, but it's still a submarine patent.

the only thing I made up was the LCD patent, and that was meant to be a joke.

so, I'm not exactly grasping at straws here. Also, I don't have an agenda, I just don't like what apple has been doing lately (and I suspect you don't actually know what "having an agenda" means, anyway)
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So the LCD patent was "meant" to be a joke, but it isn't pushing any sort of agenda? Gotcha.
Anyways, agree to disagree.
 
SkribbelKat said:
I don't know why Apple is wasting time maintaining a relationship with Samsung with so much bad blood in the water between the two companies. I heard that Frito-Lay and Pringles are both seeking to find new partners in the chip making and selling business.
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Because Apple obviously is having problems finding new ground to break as far as design and other ideas. Moving to a second rate chip supplier and the subsequent problems that will entail...

The last thing Apple needs right now is major product delays, TSMC, and possible recalls due to problematic parts.
 
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